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View Full Version : So My Employer Sent Out A Memo This Morning



PassionFruitPF
02-26-2009, 11:34 AM
" head coverings worn for religous or medical reasons are appropriate, all else is innapropriate in the workplace"

I already have the angry black woman reputation, so guess who will be wearing her scarf tomorrow.....

Lute
02-26-2009, 12:56 PM
" head coverings worn for religous or medical reasons are appropriate, all else is innapropriate in the workplace"

I already have the angry black woman reputation, so guess who will be wearing her scarf tomorrow.....
[/b]

If I were you. You better not.
What type of environment are you working in. Depending on the work environment it may not be professional to wear the scarf.

Kewlchick
02-26-2009, 01:04 PM
OP first of all you have me rolling over here with your response to the memo. How do they know if you have a medical condition or are a certain religion?

Ameka
02-26-2009, 01:06 PM
I don't see anything wrong with the memo. An employer has the right to set those kinds of rules. Now, I could see if the employer said "no dread locs or afros" then that is another story.

missladee622
02-26-2009, 01:10 PM
Is it that serious to lose your job over your scarf? :huh:

GiiGii
02-26-2009, 01:12 PM
It is a very common practice for employers to have dress codes that ban head coverings. Dress codes are also legal providing the policy does not discriminate based on race(ex. "no beard" policy for AA males), disability, or religion.

Pick your battles wisely and consider taking the high road on this one.

poitreenmoshun
02-26-2009, 01:24 PM
where do you work? and what is the significance/importance of you wearing a headwrap?

don't lose your job over a head wrap chile. jobs are way too hard to come by in this economy.

at least they haven't banned "extreme" hairstyles and grouped your fro/twists/natural hair into that category. if the issue is styling/having a lazy hair day, just plan the night before. get up a lil earlier and take that time to do your hair....or buy some wigs.:dunno:

to repeat GiiGii, choose your battles wisely sis.

LBellatrix
02-26-2009, 01:28 PM
Trust the sisters of NP to provide something that's too often missing in situations these days: PERSPECTIVE.

At least you're not being told to straighten your hair. :mellow:

ms_3000gt
02-26-2009, 01:37 PM
I agree - all employers have a dress code. In my employee handbook, all it says is professional clothes and hairstyles. Short nails, no nail polish/perfume for medical staff (patients may be allergic).

Yeah, if it said no fros and straight hair only - they'd have a fight. But I would not be looking to lose my job over a scarf - especially when so may are without a job right now.

The memo would have ticked me off too - but, oh well. Pick your battles sis.

step8martin1
02-26-2009, 01:40 PM
It is a very common practice for employers to have dress codes that ban head coverings. Dress codes are also legal providing the policy does not discriminate based on race(ex. "no beard" policy for AA males), disability, or religion.

Pick your battles wisely and consider taking the high road on this one.
[/b]

ITA with this.

My last two jobs had this policy. I remeber one day a Caucasian female came into work with a scarf over her head. She was politely ask by our supervisor to remove it. It's not about race, so I really hope that you won't take it there.

reesespep
02-26-2009, 01:40 PM
It's just a scarf. Better to have a job a wear a head scarf on your day off, than to have no job and be rocking that scarf and nothing else because of it.

missladee622
02-26-2009, 01:43 PM
ITA with this.

My last two jobs had this policy. I remeber one day a Caucasian female came into work with a scarf over her head. She was politely ask by our supervisor to remove it. It's not about race, so I really hope that you won't take it there.
[/b]
This has happened at my job as well.

janeezy01
02-26-2009, 01:56 PM
lol. Please don't wear the scarf!!!!

keep us posted!!!

Applejacks
02-26-2009, 02:22 PM
" head coverings worn for religous or medical reasons are appropriate, all else is innapropriate in the workplace"


[/b]
this has been the policy at every place of employment i've ever worked. as long as they allow head coverings for religious & medical reasons, i see nothing wrong, racist, or discriminatory with the policy. :unsure:

please adhere to the dress code.

Kitathena
02-26-2009, 02:42 PM
I agree to adhere to the dress code, but is a scarf that most people wear really considered a headcovering? It's more like a headband, right?

Ameka
02-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I agree to adhere to the dress code, but is a scarf that most people wear really considered a headcovering? It's more like a headband, right?
[/b]


Many times people where scarves that cover the entire head, you know, with the bun in the back. But I know what you are talking about though.

bhop13
02-26-2009, 02:59 PM
When you wear a scarf as a headband it's more like an accessory but I could see wearing one that covers whole head being the lumped in the same category as a wearing a hat. At that point it is actually covering your entire head.

Don't lose your job over something as simple as a scarf when it's not for medical or religious reasons.

FantasticVoyage
02-26-2009, 03:01 PM
:lol: I totally understand the desire to want to buck the system, but we don't want you to get in trouble over this one. Just rock your afro extra large! :afro:

thinfine
02-26-2009, 03:01 PM
" head coverings worn for religous or medical reasons are appropriate, all else is innapropriate in the workplace"

I already have the angry black woman reputation, so guess who will be wearing her scarf tomorrow.....
[/b]

I agree with the rest of the posters. Please choose your battles carefully, is a scarf that important?

Jazitones
02-26-2009, 03:18 PM
IA with everyone else. Don't sweat it.

PassionFruitPF
02-26-2009, 03:34 PM
I wont lose my job.... Im wearing my scarf.... as long as I dont wear any offensive clothing, anything showing midriff, anything dirty or unkempt, they can KMA...

again, I wont lose my job.... I just found it funny that the memo came across my email as I was reading NP online from the computer that we also arent suppose access the internet for personal use


Its not about race in the least... we were also told we couldnt wear shorts... and though it was 28 degrees this morning, 2 white guys came to work in shorts & flip flops... the FLIP FLOPS can be considered dangerous, otherwise, they aint no more worried than I am....

nappyeditor
02-26-2009, 03:43 PM
I wont lose my job.... Im wearing my scarf.... as long as I dont wear any offensive clothing, anything showing midriff, anything dirty or unkempt, they can KMA...

again, I wont lose my job.... I just found it funny that the memo came across my email as I was reading NP online from the computer that we also arent suppose access the internet for personal use
Its not about race in the least... we were also told we couldnt wear shorts... and though it was 28 degrees this morning, 2 white guys came to work in shorts & flip flops... the FLIP FLOPS can be considered dangerous, otherwise, they aint no more worried than I am....
[/b]

What kind of job do you have? It seems pretty lenient if several people ignore the dress code.

anabwi
02-26-2009, 03:45 PM
^^^ Gimme dis baby :wub:

KB
02-26-2009, 03:45 PM
aight rebel...

PassionFruitPF
02-26-2009, 03:51 PM
What kind of job do you have? It seems pretty lenient if several people ignore the dress code.
[/b]


tech support in a disaster recovery operations center
its not that its lenient... there is a principle of past principles... we adhere to a code of Business conduct... this dress code doesnt fit into that code....

if I worked in a bank or had customer contact or had to go out to represent the company, Id dress appropriately...

Mind you, there are UNspoken rules...like NONE of the black men with locs have been promoted and none of the girls that wear 3 inch nails get promoted

my employer has bigger fish to fry than what I have on my head

bhop13
02-26-2009, 03:51 PM
I wont lose my job.... Im wearing my scarf.... as long as I dont wear any offensive clothing, anything showing midriff, anything dirty or unkempt, they can KMA...

again, I wont lose my job.... I just found it funny that the memo came across my email as I was reading NP online from the computer that we also arent suppose access the internet for personal use
Its not about race in the least... we were also told we couldnt wear shorts... and though it was 28 degrees this morning, 2 white guys came to work in shorts & flip flops... the FLIP FLOPS can be considered dangerous, otherwise, they aint no more worried than I am....
[/b]


IDK...we are in a time were people are losing jobs by the thousands so yall might want to be careful. There are probably 100 right now that would snatch those jobs up and gladly follow the dress code.

missladee622
02-26-2009, 03:54 PM
IDK...we are in a time were people are losing jobs by the thousands so yall might want to be careful. There are probably 100 right now that would snatch those jobs up and gladly follow the dress code.
[/b]

*head nod*

Niya
02-26-2009, 04:12 PM
i dont see the issue, but whatever floats your boat


we are in a recession though :unsure:

curlycoilyfroily
02-26-2009, 04:15 PM
^^^ Gimme dis baby :wub:
[/b]

I knoowwww, so cute. ^_^

PassionFruitPF
02-26-2009, 04:31 PM
I have been employed by this same company for more than 20 years...
Im in NO DANGER of losing my job..

that said, I dont subscribe to the train of thought that because we are in tough economic times or because a lot of folks are out of work that I must bow to every whim of my employer...

I adhere to REASONABLE policies... long standing policies will not be ignored and new policy whims will not be acknowledged when I dont see the need...

If they come tomorrow & say I cant wear jeans, they'd need to give me very good justification... until then I wear my jeans, ( provided they are clean, ironed, no holes or frays)

Neosoul
02-26-2009, 05:14 PM
If they come tomorrow & say I cant wear jeans, they'd need to give me very good justification... until then I wear my jeans, ( provided they are clean, ironed, no holes or frays)
[/b]

As a HR manager I can say without a doubt ... no they don't to the bolded. As long as they institute what ever rules, regs, policies across the board so that no employee can cry discriminatory or harassing practice ... they don't owe you anything.

But what's the point in me saying this anyway ... you seem very firm in your position despite the very sound advice from the other posters.

In a professional environment, even if there is no risk of loosing one's job, that isn't the only thing that's important for advancement. Picking our battles wisely plays a huge role; I'm not saying that you should shuck, jive and kiss azz, but sometimes our attitude to the simplest things can be a huge deterrent to how far we go.

In the long run ... you alone know what's the best move for you. If that means rocking your scarf tomorrow ... then by all means ... "do your thang". Best to you ....

Applejacks
02-26-2009, 05:31 PM
" head coverings worn for religous or medical reasons are appropriate, all else is innapropriate in the workplace"

I already have the angry black woman reputation, so guess who will be wearing her scarf tomorrow.....
[/b]




I wont lose my job.... Im wearing my scarf.... as long as I dont wear any offensive clothing, anything showing midriff, anything dirty or unkempt, they can KMA...
again, I wont lose my job....

we were also told we couldnt wear shorts... and though it was 28 degrees this morning, 2 white guys came to work in shorts & flip flops... the FLIP FLOPS can be considered dangerous, otherwise, they aint no more worried than I am....
[/b]




tech support in a disaster recovery operations center
its not that its lenient... there is a principle of past principles... we adhere to a code of Business conduct... this dress code doesnt fit into that code....

if I worked in a bank or had customer contact or had to go out to represent the company, Id dress appropriately...

Mind you, there are UNspoken rules...like NONE of the black men with locs have been promoted and none of the girls that wear 3 inch nails get promoted

my employer has bigger fish to fry than what I have on my head
[/b]



I have been employed by this same company for more than 20 years...
Im in NO DANGER of losing my job..

that said, I dont subscribe to the train of thought that because we are in tough economic times or because a lot of folks are out of work that I must bow to every whim of my employer...

I adhere to REASONABLE policies... long standing policies will not be ignored and new policy whims will not be acknowledged when I dont see the need...

If they come tomorrow & say I cant wear jeans, they'd need to give me very good justification... until then I wear my jeans, ( provided they are clean, ironed, no holes or frays)
[/b]
i don't understand why you don't consider no shorts, flip flops, or head coverings 'reasonable policies'. what difference does it make if a policy is new or old? why does an employer need to offer you justification for lawful policies? why are you purposely trying to perpetuate the 'angry black woman' stereotype over a head scarf? what's really going on at your place of employment that you're so upset ("they can KMA"... really??) and, if it's so bad that you're picking and choosing which LAWFUL policies you acknowledge, why are you still there? :unsure:

i really don't get it, but mmmmmkay. :dunno:

PassionFruitPF
02-26-2009, 05:52 PM
I guess I didnt give enough info.... all of these items, INCLUDING DRESS CODE, is included in my collective bargaining agreement ( CONTRACT)...

the company CAN NOT DICTATE that I cant wear a scarf UNLESS the scarf is shown to be a danger to myself or others around me


FLIP-FLOPS can be shown to be a danger and thus they CAN rules those inappropriate
Shorts are inappropriate in front of customers OR in an safety environment ( as long as Im behind a PC Im not in a safety environment)


no one HAS to get it... I get it & I collect my paycheck accordingly


I dont perpetuate the angry black woman stereotype... but since I have been known to exercise my rights, as contractually agreed to, and because I have to go to battle on behalf on other employees on a regular basis, I get that connotation in a half-jokingly manner


the point of the post, in MY Head, was how arbitrary the email was and how in the midst of other things going on, this is what someone ( with little or no power to make rules of such magnitude) sent out


as I said, Im over 20 yrs in at this company.... I got this......

LBellatrix
02-26-2009, 06:02 PM
I guess I didnt give enough info....

the point of the post, in MY Head, was how arbitrary the email was and how in the midst of other things going on, this is what someone ( with little or no power to make rules of such magnitude) sent out

as I said, Im over 20 yrs in at this company.... I got this......
[/b]

No, you didn't give enough info. If I'd seen the bolded I would have understood that THEY were the ones in need of perspective, not you. Thanks for the clarification.

DesertAngel
02-26-2009, 06:04 PM
:lol: ...Just rock your afro extra large! :afro:
[/b]


Yep! Go Angela Davis on their butts! Now that lady knew how to rock a 'fro. :wub:

Applejacks
02-26-2009, 06:04 PM
I guess I didnt give enough info.... all of these items, INCLUDING DRESS CODE, is included in my collective bargaining agreement ( CONTRACT)...


[/b]
well, that makes all the difference in the world. :lol: let us know up front next time, Love. ;)

cjohnson90
02-26-2009, 06:17 PM
The clarification doesn't make a difference to me, but I think PassionFruit was just venting a little. I don't think she posted with the intent of suggesting that she was ready to go into battle with her company over a head scarf.

The internet is weird in that way - we don't get the whole story and we can't see the tone of the message, so I find it difficult to have an opinion on a lot of topics. That's why I've been a member for over two years and have about 30-odd posts.

Neosoul
02-26-2009, 06:45 PM
I guess I didnt give enough info.... all of these items, INCLUDING DRESS CODE, is included in my collective bargaining agreement ( CONTRACT)...

the point of the post, in MY Head, was how arbitrary the email was and how in the midst of other things going on, this is what someone ( with little or no power to make rules of such magnitude) sent out

as I said, Im over 20 yrs in at this company.... I got this......
[/b]

Thanks for the clarification ... ;)

missalyssa
02-26-2009, 09:44 PM
It is a very common practice for employers to have dress codes that ban head coverings. Dress codes are also legal providing the policy does not discriminate based on race(ex. "no beard" policy for AA males), disability, or religion.

Pick your battles wisely and consider taking the high road on this one.
[/b]

what does the bolded mean? anyone that can can explain please let me know.

Lys

GiiGii
02-26-2009, 10:16 PM
what does the bolded mean? anyone that can can explain please let me know.

Lys
[/b]

Ex. Certain religions teach head covering as part of their doctrine. A person would not have to comply with a policy that bans head coverings because it's for religious reasons. There may be exceptions in environments where safety is an issue.

Ex. Some employers require men to be clean shaven. This is a problem for African American men because of the common skin condition(don't know what it's called) that causes skin irritation, razor bumps, etc. Based on race, an African American male should not be required to comply with that.

Ex. On my job, crocs are not allowed. If I had a medical condition verified by a note from my doctor, I could wear them.

Like has been mentioned, if an employer banned afros and locs, that would be discrimination. A policy like that clearly targets a particular race and is discriminatory.

Anyway, I'm no expert so hopefully someone with more knowledge will help answer your question.

Karibana
02-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Ex. Some employers require men to be clean shaven. This is a problem for African American men because of the common skin condition (don't know what it's called) that causes skin irritation, razor bumps, etc. Based on race, an African American male should not be required to comply with that.
[/b]

Folliculitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folliculitis) I only know because one of my Caucasian colleagues has it...

OP, I was going to side with the others before I read your clarification and I'm not sure if I support you're wanting to flaunt the new rules. Why don't you just file a protest through your union rep? To openly defy the new rule "just because" (admit it, you have no real reason to actually protest other then wanting to keep a styling option) seems a bit childish IMO...

missalyssa
02-27-2009, 02:31 AM
Ex. Certain religions teach head covering as part of their doctrine. A person would not have to comply with a policy that bans head coverings because it's for religious reasons. There may be exceptions in environments where safety is an issue.

Ex. Some employers require men to be clean shaven. This is a problem for African American men because of the common skin condition(don't know what it's called) that causes skin irritation, razor bumps, etc. Based on race, an African American male should not be required to comply with that.

Ex. On my job, crocs are not allowed. If I had a medical condition verified by a note from my doctor, I could wear them.

Like has been mentioned, if an employer banned afros and locs, that would be discrimination. A policy like that clearly targets a particular race and is discriminatory.

Anyway, I'm no expert so hopefully someone with more knowledge will help answer your question.
[/b]

Thanks you (and Karibana) answered my question. I didn't know about folliculitis

Lys

GalaxyGirl2012
02-27-2009, 03:21 AM
none of the girls that wear 3 inch nails get promoted

[/b]
:lol:

i'm not mad at this

GiiGii
02-27-2009, 03:54 AM
OP - Thanks for the additional information. Interesting.

Fuesha
03-04-2009, 02:04 PM
As a HR manager I can say without a doubt ... no they don't to the bolded. As long as they institute what ever rules, regs, policies across the board so that no employee can cry discriminatory or harassing practice ... they don't owe you anything.

But what's the point in me saying this anyway ... you seem very firm in your position despite the very sound advice from the other posters.

In a professional environment, even if there is no risk of loosing one's job, that isn't the only thing that's important for advancement. Picking our battles wisely plays a huge role; I'm not saying that you should shuck, jive and kiss azz, but sometimes our attitude to the simplest things can be a huge deterrent to how far we go.

In the long run ... you alone know what's the best move for you. If that means rocking your scarf tomorrow ... then by all means ... "do your thang". Best to you ....

[/b]




i don't understand why you don't consider no shorts, flip flops, or head coverings 'reasonable policies'. what difference does it make if a policy is new or old? why does an employer need to offer you justification for lawful policies? why are you purposely trying to perpetuate the 'angry black woman' stereotype over a head scarf? what's really going on at your place of employment that you're so upset ("they can KMA"... really??) and, if it's so bad that you're picking and choosing which LAWFUL policies you acknowledge, why are you still there? :unsure:

i really don't get it, but mmmmmkay. :dunno:
[/b]




I guess I didnt give enough info.... all of these items, INCLUDING DRESS CODE, is included in my collective bargaining agreement ( CONTRACT)...

the company CAN NOT DICTATE that I cant wear a scarf UNLESS the scarf is shown to be a danger to myself or others around me
FLIP-FLOPS can be shown to be a danger and thus they CAN rules those inappropriate
Shorts are inappropriate in front of customers OR in an safety environment ( as long as Im behind a PC Im not in a safety environment)
no one HAS to get it... I get it & I collect my paycheck accordingly
I dont perpetuate the angry black woman stereotype... but since I have been known to exercise my rights, as contractually agreed to, and because I have to go to battle on behalf on other employees on a regular basis, I get that connotation in a half-jokingly manner
the point of the post, in MY Head, was how arbitrary the email was and how in the midst of other things going on, this is what someone ( with little or no power to make rules of such magnitude) sent out
as I said, Im over 20 yrs in at this company.... I got this......
[/b]


Hem and Haw......who moved my cheese

PassionFruitPF
03-06-2009, 08:53 PM
Company sent out a retraction to the "new" policy a few days ago...

took em longer than I expected

Gorgeouslocs
10-12-2009, 09:11 PM
Funny thing is--the no scar/headwrap policy is in effect here at my POE and yet not enforced on me! Before I started locking my hair I wore a scarf to cover up a bad hair day and was called into the office and asked to remove it...which I did. Luckily since my hair had been covered for a few hours it was laying down and I didn't look to crazy.

However, when I started locking my hair I wore it wrapped for at least 3-4 months and it was NEVER mentioned. Maybe they thought it was for religious/spiritual purposes??? :p

Sinamin2
10-29-2009, 08:21 PM
I tend to agree with you, what's wrong with wearing a head rap. NOTHING. They just came out with that memo since you started wearing one I'm willing to bet. Most all head raps I've seen looks good enough to wear to work. I too think it is just repersenting something they don't want. But that's just my opinion.

Sinamin
11-04-2009, 09:49 PM
Hi step8...It may not have been about race in the case at your job, but as we all know all cases should be looked at on separate bases. According to where she is working. Let's not be so fast to count out the race card, because we are not as naive as some people would like to believe.
Myself, I see nothing wrong with a woman wearing a head rap. Although I don’t wear them myself. It's an accessory to some women like a necklace or broach ect... 2nd, It supposed to be ok for Women to wear hats indoors but not men. Because of that same belief,.. for many years this has been the case.
I guess my question would be what is the difference between a women wearing a hat indoors to compliment her clothing as appose to a head rap for the same reason. Which most of them are beautiful anyway. Now if it was raggedy, then I could see the suppervisor saying something or if there is goanna be a memo... then set Guidelines for the headraps. ie...no raggedy ones, no florescent colors ect... So you see where I'm going with this?
3rd..Then there is the sistah who simply just wants to be more in touch with her culture since she has gone napptural,…. Others don’t want to see that, heck SOME don't even want to see our natural hair, therfore they use regulations and memos for to discise their real intentions.
I would be Suspicious too if a memo came out like that, if I wore a head rap to work.
4th,... I agree with you she should consider taking the high road on this one.
This is simply my feelings on the subject… Lets just agree to disagree.
LuV-u all..

divanapptural
11-12-2009, 06:56 PM
I agree - all employers have a dress code. In my employee handbook, all it says is professional clothes and hairstyles. Short nails, no nail polish/perfume for medical staff (patients may be allergic).

Yeah, if it said no fros and straight hair only - they'd have a fight. But I would not be looking to lose my job over a scarf - especially when so may are without a job right now.

The memo would have ticked me off too - but, oh well. Pick your battles sis.
I agree with this one also. A head covering is not worth your job in this economy. Now its HOW you wear the scarf that is important. I don't see a problem with wearing a nice scarf as a headband to compliment your hairstyle. It is seen as an accessory piece then. Just thought I would chime in to this discussion...it seems like a good topic. Best wishes

CinnamonBiscuit
11-21-2009, 11:54 PM
If there'd stop being double-standards, there wouldn't be such an issue. Either everyone can wear something freely if they so choose, or no one can. That's the way it should be. Having religion as an excuse is too tricky, because anyone can just claim to be of a certain religious affiliation just so they don't have to follow a certain rule.