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elleebeme5
04-23-2003, 07:21 PM
I thought I posted this earlier....anyway

Several posts have mentioned the concept of respecting another's faith. When I say respect, I mean that accept that another person's beliefs are just as important to them, as yours are to you. I see it as acknowledging differences without putting down or saying negative things about that faith. I don't see it as tolerance because tolerance suggests (to me) an image of putting up with something that is an irritant. I think it is honoring the passion we all bring to our faith. It's understanding and accepting that for a believer to follow the tenets of his/her faith, that person might think, do, say, wear, or eat something different than I might think, do, say, wear or eat and that's okay (as long as there is no harm coming to an innocent person - i.e. human sacrifice into a fire, starving a child to get the devil out). What is respect - in this context - to yall?

mochacaremel
04-23-2003, 07:29 PM
That's a deep question, elleebeme....I personally don't know many people who have faith in their religion and are knowledgeable in another person's religion enough to be ABLE to respect it.

I mean, in a way I think you can't respect something you don't know about and/or understand. Therefore, I would say in my personal situations I tend to repect the fact that any person can believe anything...but I don't go so far as to say I respect that person's religion, unless I am sure I understand it to begin with.

With that being said, I also do not believe one should demand respect for their beliefs without sharing/educating others on those same beliefs. Like, don't ask me to respect something you refuse to discuss with me.

Mocha

HarrieNaps
04-23-2003, 07:42 PM
I agree that we all should respect each persons choice of religion and worship.

I have visited many different churches and have found that several of the churches that I visited I felt very comfortable with and I recieved something from the message that was being taught.

Sometimes I feel we get so caught up in labels and dominations that we forget that there is but one God that goes by many different names and we should except people and their religions except if it some strange type of worship like human or animal sacrifice, or witch craft etc.

After all the Bible says we should not judge.

HarrieNaps
04-23-2003, 07:43 PM
I agree that we all should respect each persons choice of religion and worship.

I have visited many different churches and have found that several of the churches that I visited I felt very comfortable with and I recieved something from the message that was being taught.

Sometimes I feel we get so caught up in labels and dominations that we forget that there is but one God that goes by many different names and we should except people and their religions except if it some strange type of worship like human or animal sacrifice, or witch craft etc.

After all the Bible says we should not judge.

LotsOfLocs
04-23-2003, 07:46 PM
we should except people and their religions except if it some strange type of worship like human or animal sacrifice, or witch craft etc.

After all the Bible says we should not judge.

Whats wrong with animal sacrifice? People sacrifice animals when they eat everyday. The animlas are slaughtered inhmanely in a slaughter house. At least when you kill an animal on an altar and in the name of God it is a spiritual act.

What is wrong with "witchcraft"? Wicca, shamanism, and many African religions use so called "witchcraft". Why should these religions not be accepted?

starchild
04-23-2003, 08:09 PM
thank lots, this will start the ball rolling, good point. I agree with you and parts of what Mocha had to say.


How can you respect something if it is not being discussed or explained or understood. I feel that people say respect as in, you should respect minez. Like African religions, is it okay to just respect the 3 dominant religions but our own traditional religions are not good enough. I don;t practice traditional African religions but i have respect and seek to know more about it. Respect goes hand and hand with knowledge.

CallaV
04-23-2003, 08:11 PM
I thought I posted this earlier....anyway

Several posts have mentioned the concept of respecting another's faith. When I say respect, I mean that accept that another person's beliefs are just as important to them, as yours are to you. I see it as acknowledging differences without putting down or saying negative things about that faith. I don't see it as tolerance because tolerance suggests (to me) an image of putting up with something that is an irritant. I think it is honoring the passion we all bring to our faith. It's understanding and accepting that for a believer to follow the tenets of his/her faith, that person might think, do, say, wear, or eat something different than I might think, do, say, wear or eat and that's okay (as long as there is no harm coming to an innocent person - i.e. human sacrifice into a fire, starving a child to get the devil out). What is respect - in this context - to yall?

I agree with your definition. When it comes to faith or religion I respect a person’s right to believe anything they want. I may not agree with it but if it brings your soul peace then that is all that matters. Respect also extends to those of the same faith as me as well as those with differing beliefs.

CallaV
04-23-2003, 08:21 PM
thank lots, this will start the ball rolling, good point. I agree with you and parts of what Mocha had to say.


How can you respect something if it is not being discussed or explained or understood. I feel that people say respect as in, you should respect minez. Like African religions, is it okay to just respect the 3 dominant religions but our own traditional religions are not good enough. I don;t practice traditional African religions but i have respect and seek to know more about it. Respect goes hand and hand with knowledge.

Very true but some people don’t want knowledge and are so set in their thought that theirs is the best and nothing can compare and if you don’t believe what I do then you’re just wrong. When I was Catholic in my history class we learned about a few different religions. My teacher never said if they were right or wrong she just put the info out there. I rarely see that now what I see is a lot of condemnation.

afrikankween
04-23-2003, 09:27 PM
thank lots, this will start the ball rolling, good point. I agree with you and parts of what Mocha had to say.


How can you respect something if it is not being discussed or explained or understood. I feel that people say respect as in, you should respect minez. Like African religions, is it okay to just respect the 3 dominant religions but our own traditional religions are not good enough. I don;t practice traditional African religions but i have respect and seek to know more about it. Respect goes hand and hand with knowledge.

Very true but some people don’t want knowledge and are so set in their thought that theirs is the best and nothing can compare and if you don’t believe what I do then you’re just wrong. When I was Catholic in my history class we learned about a few different religions. My teacher never said if they were right or wrong she just put the info out there. I rarely see that now what I see is a lot of condemnation.

My religion professor is very good at this. He puts the information out there without any judgement on any religion, and in a way in which you can't tell what religion he is.I appreciate that. Since many of the people in the class take it upon themselves to damn people to hell. :roll:



I think you can respect someones religion without knowing about it. Just know that they have just as much of a right to do what they are doing, as you have to do what you are doing~ given that every thing done is legal(ie not harming children). People will think their religion/belief system is just as right as yours.

elleebeme5
04-23-2003, 10:58 PM
I think I can respect someone's faith (not quite the same as religion is it?) and not understand it. I don't understand how electricity works but that doesn't stop me from using it. I got through Statistics without understanding that. I may not understand WHY they believe and I will most likely think they're wrong (what can I say). But for me to belittle them or intentionally do, say or post something that would be offensive, would be disrespectful. I think a lot of it has to do with your intention. Certainly we all say things from time to time that disrespectful. A Jewish person told me once that saying Jew sounded bad so I stopped saying it. What's the point doing something that you know to be disrespecting of someone's faith?

rozlips
04-24-2003, 12:41 AM
I don't think its too much to ask that people refrain from making disparaging remarks about someone else's religion. I'm very conscious of the power of faith and would not deride anyone's faith for any reason. I don't get into religious discussions for the most part, other than to ask respectful questions.

ollypitts2
04-24-2003, 03:02 AM
What a great thread elleebeme! :D

Sometimes I find myself using words that I understand on an intuitive level, but were I pressed to state a concrete definition, I'd be at a loss. Respect is one of those words that I've caught myself using without a lot of thought to the gravity of its literal meaning. Out of curiosity and a desire to respond truthfully to the original questions, I turned to my trusty dictionary to help crystalize my thinking.

Here are just a few definitions of the word that seem to be consistent with my general understanding of its meaning.

[/b]Respect[b]-esteem; admiration; proper acceptance or courtesy; the conditioned of being esteemed or honored.

I don't hold any religion, system of belief, or spiritual claims in admiration or esteem. I also won't dismiss or minimize the importance of beliefs for individuals and our culture. When I hear of harmful spiritual practices I feel angry and saddened because a life has been lost. This is where my own secular humanist leanings become really obvious. I would like to throw out lots of "shoulds" and make grand statements about how people should make the safety of beings on Earth a priority over a religious rite, but that's just my belief. . My beliefs in safety are no more worthy of respect than the belief in sacrifice held by someone else

I don't respect beliefs because they're just thoughts in our heads. I don't even respect my own thoughts and beliefs. There is no reason, in my opinion, to hold any mental image in esteem. No one thought is more useful to humanity than the other. Its our actions and their consequences that I tend to judge (but I'm working on doing that less). When people act in the best interest of their fellow beings, whether they're guided by their religion or not, I'm much more likely to respect their action-- not them and not their beliefs.

The absence of respect does not mean that I would hate or not accept thoughts (religious beliefs or spiritual beliefs). People sometimes equate acceptance with agreeance or approval, and that's not the way I think about this concept. It means acknowledging reality as it presents itself to us. I accept that some people hurt (kill) other beings as part of their beliefs--that's reality. I don't like it, I would like the see the practice eliminated, but again, this is just my opinion and not particularly valuable or worthy of respect or disrespect. I would reserve respect for actions that were taken to eliminate the practice.

silvi
04-24-2003, 03:47 AM
I strive to respect the people that I come into contact with, and treat them well. I don't care about their religion or lack of. It has nothing to do with me. Its my faith and beliefs that aid me in showing others love, honor and respect. My "nature" is to be inquisitive so I desire to learn about other religions.

mochacaremel
04-24-2003, 11:28 AM
When I was Catholic in my history class we learned about a few different religions. My teacher never said if they were right or wrong she just put the info out there. I rarely see that now what I see is a lot of condemnation.

I am Catholic and we have R.C.I.A. class every week. Last weeks' discussion was on different religions. The idea is that there is no better way to solidify your feelings about your own particular religion, than by disccusing others' religions with them. I am open to understanding any religion. I believe in truth. If there is something that strikes me as true in your religion, as a Catholic, I am free to believe it and I like that.

Mocha

elleebeme5
04-24-2003, 01:36 PM
People sometimes equate acceptance with agreeance or approval, and that's not the way I think about this concept. It means acknowledging reality as it presents itself to us.

Along the line of agreeing vs. disagreeing, does honoring your faith mean that you have to hate anohter faith? Does following Islam mean that you have to hate Christianity? Does being a Christian mean that you have to hate Buddhism?

LotsOfLocs
04-24-2003, 01:46 PM
I think one of the best way to respect someones beliefs, is to simply mind your business. There really is no reason to utter your distaste if you were never asked. If you want to debate, only debate if you actually know about the other faith or religion. Some people have no real basis for their arguments. Take the time to educate yourself first.

ollypitts2
04-24-2003, 02:30 PM
elleebeme5,

No. There is no reason, in my opinion, to hate or honor another's religious practice. No one needs to have the approval or agreeance of another to hold beliefs, because they're thoughts.

elleebeme5
04-25-2003, 02:07 AM
I agree that we don't have to hate one faith to love our own. But some people seem to get a perverse kind of joy in showing how much they hate a faith that is not their own. This is kinda unrelated but, do you remember Matthew Shepard, the gay teenager who was killed in a gay bashing attack? I recall that outside of his funeral, people were standing there with signs "Death to gays" and something about gays going to hell. Now what was the point? What did those people hope to gain by having his parents see that? Who were they trying hurt? impress? scare?

jacura
04-25-2003, 04:36 AM
not everyone who says they are....is, and not everything said in objection is not always said out of hate as well as not everything said in compliance is not always said out of love...I respect the fact that everyone has a choice

ollypitts2
04-25-2003, 05:55 AM
Elleebeme,

The example you provided in your last post demonstrated the danger inherent in holding any belief in high esteem (respecting it). The people who killed Matthew Shepherd seemed to believe that their religion, as they understood it, sanctioned their actions. However there are others who follow their religion, but have never killed anyone. It was the killers' interpretations of the tenets of their beliefs system that drove them to commit murder. Their beliefs (what they thought) have no intrinsic value so they are not worthy of respect or disdain. Their actions were destructive, criminal, and certainly deserved to be judged.


Religious beliefs are nothing more than thoughts, but some of us seem to come to our own conclusions about which are more lofty than the others. Thoughts in the absence of action are harmless. Had the men who killed Matthew just held their beliefs and never acted upon them, there would have been nothing to talk about, really. We'd call them heterosexist homophobes and move on.

Judging the respectability of any thought (i.e. religious belief in this thread) seems pretty dangerous. Who makes the decision that one way of thinking is more respectable (remember my definitions: "deserving of honor or admiration)? Do we do this collectively? How can we come to a consensus? Can those of us who don't believe in a god help decide which religions are deserving of respect and which aren't? We all seem to make these decisions for ourselves, but I start to worry when individuals with political and social power begin to take their beliefs and turn them into laws. They decide that what they believe is respectable, and what others believe is not respectable, and then they act in a way that sets up that system of discrimination and prejudice in real life. Again, its not the religion that concerns me, its what people do in reaction to their beliefs.

elleebeme5
04-25-2003, 12:22 PM
Elleebeme,

The example you provided in your last post demonstrated the danger inherent in holding any belief in high esteem (respecting it). ...

....Who makes the decision that one way of thinking is more respectable (remember my definitions: "deserving of honor or admiration)?

Webster has his definition; I have mine. The high esteem concept is not a part of my definition. Maybe I need to publish a dictionary, huh?

ollypitts2
04-25-2003, 02:33 PM
Definitely publish your own dictionary! :) I think more of us should do it.

You used "honor" in two of your previous posts; how do you define this word?

If I understand your first post correctly, I think that I agree with generally accepting the fact that others believe earnestly in their religious tenets, regardless of what they say. Now having said that, its possible that we part company on the idea of honor. Honor, for me, still includes an element of admiration, and I do not tend to admire beliefs of any kind.

curlygirl
04-26-2003, 04:46 PM
People sometimes equate acceptance with agreeance or approval, and that's not the way I think about this concept. It means acknowledging reality as it presents itself to us.

Along the line of agreeing vs. disagreeing, does honoring your faith mean that you have to hate anohter faith? Does following Islam mean that you have to hate Christianity? Does being a Christian mean that you have to hate Buddhism?

Being a Christian to me means just the opposite. Christianity is about living like Jesus lived. Jesus made it a point to reach out to people that were different from the "norm" and show them God's love by being open. I can't be running around hating things about other people's religion and also walking with them in love. It would dishonor my faith to hate Islam, Buddhism, etc....

HarrieNaps
04-29-2003, 01:33 PM
we should except people and their religions except if it some strange type of worship like human or animal sacrifice, or witch craft etc.

After all the Bible says we should not judge.

Whats wrong with animal sacrifice? People sacrifice animals when they eat everyday. The animlas are slaughtered inhmanely in a slaughter house. At least when you kill an animal on an altar and in the name of God it is a spiritual act.

What is wrong with "witchcraft"? Wicca, shamanism, and many African religions use so called "witchcraft". Why should these religions not be accepted?

You are correct , what I meant to say is people should respect others right to believe or worship as they choose and not condemn others or what they don't understand, I don't think it is cool when people argue about what religion is better or worse. And I meant to say human sacrifice and not animal and that is only my belief to each their own I have friends who are many different religions and I love them for themselves and not how they worship.

BlackOnyx03
04-30-2003, 12:55 AM
[quote]not everyone who says they are....is, and not everything said in objection is not always said out of hate as well as not everything said in compliance is not always said out of love...I respect the fact that everyone has a choice

well said. NUFF SAID!!! :)

Cherished
05-03-2003, 07:19 PM
People sometimes equate acceptance with agreeance or approval, and that's not the way I think about this concept. It means acknowledging reality as it presents itself to us.

Along the line of agreeing vs. disagreeing, does honoring your faith mean that you have to hate anohter faith? Does following Islam mean that you have to hate Christianity? Does being a Christian mean that you have to hate Buddhism?

I can't accept a teaching that dictates that I must hate, period. I am Christian, and while I know that nothing and no one can convert me to anything else, I can't see myself interfering with someone else exploring another possibility for himself or herself. We all have to seek peace, and if peace is truly what one wants, accept it where it is found. If someone finds it in another faith, I am happy for them. My being happy for them does not mean that I will embrace the same faith, and change my own...that won't happen.

Cherished