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Siennasilk
01-24-2005, 05:43 PM
I ran across the "nappturals in Japan" topic in the hair forum and that got me to thinking. How many black WOMEN are there in Asia and what on Earth is life like for them there (whether on or off a military base)? If you are a single black woman in Asia (I know it's probably different experiences in different places), is the dating scene really bad? I mean aren't most foreign guys (black and white) over there chasing after Asian women?

At first, I thought my question was a little stupid. But then I went to: blacktokyo.com and realized from the black men going on and on about dating and marrying Japanese girls that my question is not too silly. After reading the forum for a while, I quickly realized it's made up of mainly black men and Japanese women :unsure: . By the way, I'm married. But am just curious as I remember reading an article once before about how single white women who go over there to work become so depressed because white guys there are into only Asian women and Asian men aren't used to dating outside their race.

Any one have any personal experiences or info. about this? Are black men simply following the lead of white men in exoticizing petite Asian women, further distancing themselves from black women and the black community in general?

mstnt
01-24-2005, 10:41 PM
Of course, Black men subconsciously desires respect from white men so yes just about everything the white man finds pretty or in style some black men are right behind.

sonce
01-25-2005, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by mstnt@Jan 24 2005, 11:41 PM
Of course, Black men subconsciously desires respect from white men so yes just about everything the white man finds pretty or in style some black men are right behind.

687624

:lol: sometimes I seriously think this is true (no flames! I'm just being honest!)

Lokii
01-25-2005, 01:41 AM
If you are a single black woman in Asia (I know it's probably different experiences in different places), is the dating scene really bad? I mean aren't most foreign guys (black and white) over there chasing after Asian women?

I'm not in Asia but the answers are yes and yes. The dating scene is bad everywhere if you don't know what you're looking for. Not to sound like another talk show guru cliche but finding a partner or a spouse is about figuring out about who you are and what you want - not what the guys on blacktokyo.com want. So no way should single women stay home. Too many of us were raised to believe that we have to live a boxed in existence because we're black women, or if we ever get to travel, we can only do it if we have a man as a chaperone. I reject that kind of thinking. If you wanna get out there and see the world then do it. Another cliche that happens to be true - unless you're into polyamory, then it only takes one..

Siennasilk
01-25-2005, 08:41 AM
Lokii, I love your way of positive thinking. And no, I'd never let some MAN situation keep me from traveling or doing my thing. My concern is mainly about how that type of situation can wear out a single woman spending years of her life there who is open to romantic relationships. What happens to her and her self-esteem after years of no romantic interests? You can't say that Asia would be like everywhere else, b/c there wouldn't be the number of black men to black women as there are in the states. Plus, there would probably be a higher number of black men who go to live in Japan that have only Asian women in mind. I'm just being a realist, here. And no-matter what many women or men will tell you>> OPPOSITE SEX ATTRACTION DOES MATTER to most people. Survival of the species, end of story... So>> Here is a paragraph BELOW of how one poster describes life for black women in Japan (if any of you have had different experiences in Asia, please post for a different point of view):

>I&#39;m not trying to be the downer here, but I have to disagree. This doesn&#39;t match my experiences in Tokyo. I have met many cute intelligent non-japanese women in Tokyo who were very horny, lonely, and at their wits end in terms of dating. The foreign guys are generally not looking to date a foreign girl (there are &#39;seriously&#39; incredibly beautiful/well dressed japanese women &#39;everywhere&#39; you look), and Japanese guys generally do not approach foreign women (and if they do, it&#39;s usually a weirdo dude, or a really young dude who has not been programmed to be a social robot yet). So if you are really young (like 17-21), you may get a geniunely cool, good looking, non-weird japanese dude to approach you. Not saying that there aren&#39;t exceptions, there are always exceptions, but I think people are trying to help you feel optimistic here rather than giving you the hard truth.<

Lokii
01-25-2005, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Siennasilk@Jan 25 2005, 07:41 PM
Lokii, I love your way of positive thinking. And no, I&#39;d never let some MAN situation keep me from traveling or doing my thing. My concern is mainly about how that type of situation can wear out a single woman spending years of her life there who is open to romantic relationships. What happens to her and her self-esteem after years of no romantic interests? You can&#39;t say that Asia would be like everywhere else, b/c there wouldn&#39;t be the number of black men to black women as there are in the states. Plus, there would probably be a higher number of black men who go to live in Japan that have only Asian women in mind. I&#39;m just being a realist, here. And no-matter what many women or men will tell you>> OPPOSITE SEX ATTRACTION DOES MATTER to most people. Survival of the species, end of story... So>> Here is a paragraph BELOW of how one poster describes life for black women in Japan (if any of you have had different experiences in Asia, please post for a different point of view):

>I&#39;m not trying to be the downer here, but I have to disagree. This doesn&#39;t match my experiences in Tokyo. I have met many cute intelligent non-japanese women in Tokyo who were very horny, lonely, and at their wits end in terms of dating. The foreign guys are generally not looking to date a foreign girl (there are &#39;seriously&#39; incredibly beautiful/well dressed japanese women &#39;everywhere&#39; you look), and Japanese guys generally do not approach foreign women (and if they do, it&#39;s usually a weirdo dude, or a really young dude who has not been programmed to be a social robot yet). So if you are really young (like 17-21), you may get a geniunely cool, good looking, non-weird japanese dude to approach you. Not saying that there aren&#39;t exceptions, there are always exceptions, but I think people are trying to help you feel optimistic here rather than giving you the hard truth.<

688120


Each individual is going to look at it the way they choose to see it, however, in my opinion this is just a question of thinking outside the box. The poster above is says that s/he is speaking generally and admits there are exceptions. I don&#39;t see what&#39;s hard about the truth. The solution is as simple as finding the exceptions which is what anyone does when they&#39;re looking for a spouse or a SO anyway. After all we don&#39;t want just any ole man, we want that special man. I still don&#39;t see how this is any different than being in DC (metropolis anywhere for that matter). When professional black women move to DC its always - "oooh, oooh, I&#39;m in heaven. Black men in suits! And they&#39;re friendly too!" But give them 6 months and the excitement is gone and depression is setting in - ":( they all like white women, or anything but black women. Woe is me. I&#39;ll never get married." The single black woman&#39;s dilemna has been featured in the washington post. Emails circulate the beltway about it several times a week. But i have one friend in DC who only dates blue collar workers and another who dates immigrant construction workers. I know people who rely on yahoo personals and it works for them. To me that&#39;s thinking outside the box.

Siennasilk
01-25-2005, 10:32 PM
Well, did your friends actually find true love in their immigrant construction workers or are they simply "settling" for any men that will date them? Not that anything is so wrong with immigrants or blue collar workers (b/c I&#39;m totally not the corporate type)>> But it sure sounds like you&#39;re saying since they couldn&#39;t get any black men on their socio-economic level, they settled for ANYbody who&#39;ll date a black woman. To me, that&#39;s not thinking outside the box. That type thinking equates to low self-esteem and defeat. Just like the poor overweight white girl who can&#39;t pull a white guy, so she settles for a thug in the hood who wants her for her whiteness and doesn&#39;t expect too much more from her.

Lokii
01-25-2005, 11:51 PM
Oh no they&#39;re not settling. That was not my point at all. They&#39;re just non traditional types with diverse circles of friends both male and female. They are not the type who were looking for the "white collar brotha" in the first place.

But we&#39;re way off course from your original post due in part to my chiming in when I&#39;m not a napptural in Asia. But i do have lots of experience in living among different cultures so I responded more to your subtitle "should single women stay at home". In my opinion - absolutely not. If you&#39;re smart enough to get to Asia or wherever (an this is an exceptional achievement in and of itself) then you&#39;re smart enough to figure out how to get a social life and a love life inspite of what people have to say about the odds. Anyway I hope some of the Japan nappturals will join in on this thread.

As for me, I have said my piece, and IM o-u-t.

mitzief
01-26-2005, 09:50 AM
I have been in Japan for about a year and a half and dating a Japanese guy is definitely the exception than it is the rule. Thing is for Japanese in general, Westerners are opinionated and talkative and they find that very intimidating. Where for us silence is a gap that must be filled, for Japanese silence is preferred ( I read this in a book..trying to understand their way(s) of thinking). What happens as a result is that they may actually like you but they are afraid to approach you muchless tell you. This isn&#39;t to say that there aren&#39;t Japanese male/foreign female relationships..there are, it&#39;s just that they are not as abundant as foreign guys/Japanese girls relationships.

It&#39;s amazing that when foreign guys come to Japan, they are almost idolized and us as foreign women are thinking..huh? What&#39;s so great about that guy? It&#39;s like the &#39;rejects&#39; become superstars and desirables when they are here. I think though that foreign guys are attracted to Japanese girls for the following reasons:

1. they are petite and like to play dress up..ask anybody who visits and they will tell you about Japanese girls and how well dressed the majority of them are. They also go all out on the name brand clothing..Louis Vutton is a favourite ( which is funny as in strange cause you will see a well dressed girl and then she smiles and ur like daang those teeth are jacked up ..read no flouride in Japanese toothpaste...plus dental hygiene isn&#39;t that big a deal here apparently)

2. they don&#39;t argue about stuff as Western women will...read not opinionated..well they are I&#39;m sure but they don&#39;t go on about stuff the way a Western women would which is apparently a-ok with the foreign guy

This isnt to say that there aren&#39;t meaningful relationships in all of this, there are but a lot of foreign guys here including black men just want a girl who will subscribe to all the sterotypical views of women and some japanese girls are totally ok with that. My co-worker told me about a student who she asked about her plans for college and her response was &#39; to find a good husband&#39;

In terms of being depressed and what not as a foreign woman here, it is up to you. I just hate when people talk about not being happy cause they are single..come on!! So much to see and do...and it&#39;s when you obssess about having someone that it seems to elude you.

Having said that, I have never been propositioned by a Japanese or foreign guy for that matter but truthfully some of the foreign guys here are just blaah ;)

Being single rocks!! ( for me anyway) :P

woffordgrl
01-26-2005, 10:10 AM
like mitzief, i&#39;ve been in japan for about 1.5 years, and what she said is true. western women are viewed as being too opinionated and too loud. in a country where it seems like women are to be seen not heard, many men find us very intimidating.
many japanese women go for foreign men because they see them as be "nicer" than japanese men. many of my female students said that they wanna marry a foreigner. when asked why, they said that japanese men are very rude and view women as second class. (i tried to explain to them that this wasn&#39;t just a japanese thing)
i have been approached by japanese guys. one was a weirdo, but the others have been pretty cool. from what i could tell, i was viewed as being exotic. the guys were so excited to tell their friends that they were w/ a foreigner. i&#39;ve also been propositioned by foreign men... it aint all its cracked up to be :)

nastynas
01-26-2005, 12:42 PM
Well, I&#39;ve been in Japan for 4 years and I can agree with a lot that&#39;s already been said. (I&#39;m married to the American that I came here with.) But there&#39;s more to it. Like age: don&#39;t quote me but I&#39;ve heard from more than one source that Japanese men don&#39;t marry Japanese women over a certain age. I think it&#39;s 25 or 30. For instance, my Japanese neighbor (36) is married to an American (26) and he is giving her a "fit". (Today I had to show her how to send a package through the US Post Office, even though they&#39;ve been married 4 years.) Another thing: submission. The Japanese women that I&#39;ve met are very opinionated, but some don&#39;t ruffle feathers or go where they aren&#39;t invited or allowed to go. I can&#39;t think of any other way to say this, but they don&#39;t buck back. Oftentimes, submissive to the point of silence. I believe that a lot of those who marry Japanese women feed off of this. That way they can do anything they want and suffer very little consequence. I can&#39;t count the number of questionable "relations" around me. Then there are the "busters" they would be shunned in America who are lifted on pedestals over here simply because of their nationality. Then there&#39;s purely numbers. Japanese women out number us. You can find them hanging out and "waiting" anywhere American men are. Stores, dry cleaners, clubs, ... So they are everywhere. (It is their country.) And if I were a dude, I&#39;d have a hard time not being tempted by someone who&#39;s everywhere I am, easy going, and willing. I can go on and on, but I&#39;ll stop here. I will say that it&#39;s not just Americans.

nastynas
01-26-2005, 01:10 PM
Sorry, but to answer the question. No, we shouldn&#39;t stay at home. We are just as important as anybody else. The pickin&#39;s might be few, though.

Siennasilk
01-26-2005, 01:39 PM
Thanks for your responses. I understand the situation a bit better now.

Keep &#39;em comin&#39;...

ScoobyGurl
01-26-2005, 03:50 PM
Interesting thread. I&#39;m in the States but I have to say that I agree with the women in Japan. Foreign men probably like Japanese women b/c they&#39;re more submissive, because they make them feel like "men" (whatever that means). As far as staying home, no way! It has been my dream to see the world and I&#39;m going to do it. My grandmother travelled the world despite being divorced. My mother just finished hajj in Saudi Arabia and is now visiting Egypt despite being a widow for five years now. We as African American women should definitely see the world, especially since many of us have the resources to. Just my :2cents: .

nicyvefra
01-27-2005, 06:35 PM
Well I won&#39;t be leaving for Japan until another couple of months or so, but I will be posting a blog of my time there upon my arrival. I&#39;ll be sure to post it here. On the BT posts, I actually started that thread. :) Overall, the responses were positive with that one exception that was posted. What I gathered, black men in Japan far outnumber black women and don&#39;t mind dating black women. My take-away that its about timing and numbers. A lot of the guys seem excited to meet interesting black women, but there was a timing/location issue (she lives on another island or one of us is leaving soon). Another thing that came up repeatedly is mean chicks. Women that would roll their eyes when they saw them or when finally asked out by a black man, they found it to be an appropriate time to vent all of their frustrations with black men. I would say that was a big lie, but I know women that do that in the states, so Japan shouldn&#39;t be anything new. Are the men after Japanese women? Yeah. Will they not date foriegners? Nah, men are men, and if they see an opportunity, they&#39;ll take it.

edit: to the sistahs in Japan into Japanese dudes, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF WHITE DAY!

Siennasilk
02-02-2005, 06:26 AM
What is White Day?