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Twistednkinky
07-09-2003, 04:25 PM
Do you find it hard to forgive others? Why or Why not? Is forgiveness about you or is it really about the other person? What are your thoughts?

marq's mom
07-09-2003, 07:22 PM
it depends on what for. the big things are what i have trouble forgiving on...

i've tried over the years to forgive my abusers , but i can't seem to. they can't give back what they took from me and i don't think they deserve my forgiveness.

and the thing with my biological father not being there...see, i can't figure out if there is anything i need to forgive him for. all i know is that i'm just mad as hell at him.

i know my problems with forgiveness is hindering me spiritually, but i don't know how else to feel, you know?

starchild
07-09-2003, 08:11 PM
good question. I guess it would depend on what it is. I am for the most part very forgiving. To me, forgiving is a release. It allows me to let go and not hold anger or negative energy. I have never been a negative person and it is hard for me to understand why or how someone can hold on to anger and resentment for years. It really does affect you and your behavior. I see people walking around like a time bomb about ready to explode or will get angry very easy. . I think forgiving is hard but it is for the best your sanity.

Twistednkinky
07-09-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by marq's mom@Jul 9 2003, 06:22 PM
i know my problems with forgiveness is hindering me spiritually, but i don't know how else to feel, you know?
I certainly can relate and I definitely appreciate your candor!

Napy247
07-09-2003, 09:06 PM
The older I get the easier it becomes. There is a saying that hurt people hurt people. So I try not to take a percieved wrong personally because that person is probably acting out of a hurt, unhealed place. Also me carrying around resentments about what someone has done to me takes up too much head space and all I am doing is continuing the cycle of hurt. I truely believe that forgiveness is more for my benefit because by forgiving I heal and move on. I feel better about myself. But I don't forget. By remembering I adjust my level of trust and I just make sure I have a boundary in place so that person is not able to hurt me in the same way again.

QUOTE (marq's mom @ Jul 9 2003, 06:22 PM)
i know my problems with forgiveness is hindering me spiritually, but i don't know how else to feel, you know?

ETA:
I was also abused as a child and have had to work on my relationship with my father. Over the years I have done a lot of healing work around these issues. The most important thing for me was acknowledging how I felt. I wrote about my feelings and I talked with someone I trusted. I still wasn't able to forgive easily. So what I did is said a prayer for 30 days for the person I was having a hard time forgiving. I asked the God of my understanding to bless that person and that they may have all that I would wish for myself. Now I still harbored ill feelings but each day as I prayed, it got better and better and I found that eventually I could forgive these people that harmed me.

The moral of the story is sometimes we can't always wait for our feelings to change we have to take action first and eventually our feelings will catch up.

dembasamba
07-09-2003, 10:07 PM
Forgiveness does not have to come from a "religious" or spiritual place.

For me forgiveness grows out of my worldview which is quite secular and my genuine love for people. I am a forgiving person to those who have wronged me as an individual. I never hold a grudge, although I may get angry at the injustice or unfairness of it all. Anger is not the same as bitterness or resentment.

I also extend forgiveness to those who need it to help them forgive themselves. In my work with prisoners, this is sometimes what it is all about--the power to speak to people who have committed unspeakable crimes (lifers) and validate their humanity. The fact that I can forgive them, helps them forgive themselves and heal. My best friend is a social worker/counselor and much of her work is also about forgiveness. Helping abused kids forgive the shortcomings of thier parents and move on.

Forgiveness is catharthic, and a very powerful force.

jacura
07-09-2003, 10:17 PM
For some the spirit of forgiveness may not come from a religious/spiritual place, however my ability to forgive did.

Forgivness is about me and how I choose to take control of...live my life. Holding on to grudges, allowing others to change/effect my feelings is imo giving them control and power (to an extent) over me. I find it pretty easy to forgive now, and even easier to bless someone who has cursed or have ill will towards me. We are all human, and even with the best intentions are prone to make mistakes.

blackeyes
07-10-2003, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by jacura@Jul 9 2003, 09:17 PM
For some the spirit of forgiveness may not come from a religious/spiritual place, however my ability to forgive did.

Forgivness is about me and how I choose to take control of...live my life. Holding on to grudges, allowing others to change/effect my feelings is imo giving them control and power (to an extent) over me. I find it pretty easy to forgive now, and even easier to bless someone who has cursed or have ill will towards me. We are all human, and even with the best intentions are prone to make mistakes.
ITA :D

marq's mom
07-10-2003, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by Napy247@Jul 9 2003, 08:06 PM
The moral of the story is sometimes we can't always wait for our feelings to change we have to take action first and eventually our feelings will catch up.
you know, that may be so and maybe one day i'll take heed to that advice, but right now i'm fine with HATING THEIR GUTS... i don't think i'm ready yet.. i'm just ANGRY about it... i don't know... sad ain't it...?

marq's mom
07-10-2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Twistednkinky+Jul 9 2003, 07:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Twistednkinky @ Jul 9 2003, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--marq&#39;s mom@Jul 9 2003, 06:22 PM
i know my problems with forgiveness is hindering me spiritually, but i don&#39;t know how else to feel, you know?
I certainly can relate and I definitely appreciate your candor! [/b][/quote]
thanks, twistedkinky. i&#39;m at a point in my life where i am accepting my feelings for what they are. and that&#39;s a very huge feat for me, i might add.

triciegirl
07-10-2003, 07:27 AM
This is a very good question. For small things no, I don&#39;t have a problem forgiving. For big things, I do. Especially if the person that did wrong to me is close to me. The closer you are to me the more it hurts me, and the harder it is to forgive.

I have a question does forgiviness mean you have to take that person back into your heart? Now that is the issue with me. I can forgive someone who has greatly wronged me, and go on live my life and have nothing more to do with them. And I mean I can trully forgive them, actually wish them well, and mean it as long as they are out of my life. But, in bible class we were talking about forgiveness and how we should learn to forgive b/c God forgave us for our sins. Not only that, but he actually took us back into his heart. Yes we are not God or Christ, but the goal is to strive to be more christ like.

Now that the only part I have trouble with. Hopefully I will eventually learn how to do this. In the long wrong I hope I never do anything wrong to a person I love or cherish, but if I do I hope they will be able to find it in thier heart to forgive me. So, on that note I guess you do on to others as you would have them do on to you.

Napy247
07-10-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by marq&#39;s mom+Jul 10 2003, 05:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (marq&#39;s mom @ Jul 10 2003, 05:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Napy247@Jul 9 2003, 08:06 PM
The moral of the story is sometimes we can&#39;t always wait for our feelings to change we have to take action first and eventually our feelings will catch up.
you know, that may be so and maybe one day i&#39;ll take heed to that advice, but right now i&#39;m fine with HATING THEIR GUTS... i don&#39;t think i&#39;m ready yet.. i&#39;m just ANGRY about it... i don&#39;t know... sad ain&#39;t it...?[/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s sad. You are just being human. Healing is a process, it does not happen overnight. The healing process has already begun for you because most cannot be as honest as you have about their true feelings. I appreciate that about you. When you are ready to let go, I am confident that you will. In the meantime, just have compassion for yourself which is the opposite of judging yourself and you will be fine. Here is a cyber hug for ya! :hug:

Napy247
07-10-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by triciegirl@Jul 10 2003, 06:27 AM
I have a question does forgiviness mean you have to take that person back into your heart? Now that is the issue with me. I can forgive someone who has greatly wronged me, and go on live my life and have nothing more to do with them. And I mean I can trully forgive them, actually wish them well, and mean it as long as they are out of my life. But, in bible class we were talking about forgiveness and how we should learn to forgive b/c God forgave us for our sins. Not only that, but he actually took us back into his heart. Yes we are not God or Christ, but the goal is to strive to be more christ like.
For me personally, I evaluate on a case by case basis. I also consider how healthy the person is. Mainly the person&#39;s character. If that person has harmed me in some way but they have no remorse, no conscious then, probably I would not allow them back in my heart. They would probably continue to do harmful things so in order to protect myself I would have to love them at a distance. Some people I let back in my heart but my level of trust is adjusted. This is an over simplification of course because we as humans are so complex but this is the guideline I use when working through forgiveness.

marq's mom
07-10-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Napy247+Jul 10 2003, 12:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Napy247 @ Jul 10 2003, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -marq&#39;s mom@Jul 10 2003, 05:16 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Napy247@Jul 9 2003, 08:06 PM
The moral of the story is sometimes we can&#39;t always wait for our feelings to change we have to take action first and eventually our feelings will catch up.
you know, that may be so and maybe one day i&#39;ll take heed to that advice, but right now i&#39;m fine with HATING THEIR GUTS... i don&#39;t think i&#39;m ready yet.. i&#39;m just ANGRY about it... i don&#39;t know... sad ain&#39;t it...?
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s sad. You are just being human. Healing is a process, it does not happen overnight. The healing process has already begun for you because most cannot be as honest as you have about their true feelings. I appreciate that about you. When you are ready to let go, I am confident that you will. In the meantime, just have compassion for yourself which is the opposite of judging yourself and you will be fine. Here is a cyber hug for ya! :hug: [/b][/quote]
thanks so much.... here&#39;s a :hug: back atcha...

it&#39;s been one day at a time for me...i&#39;ll get there eventually.... :thumbsup:

Napy247
07-10-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by marq&#39;s mom+Jul 10 2003, 01:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (marq&#39;s mom @ Jul 10 2003, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Napy247@Jul 10 2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by -marq&#39;s mom@Jul 10 2003, 05:16 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Napy247@Jul 9 2003, 08:06 PM
The moral of the story is sometimes we can&#39;t always wait for our feelings to change we have to take action first and eventually our feelings will catch up.
you know, that may be so and maybe one day i&#39;ll take heed to that advice, but right now i&#39;m fine with HATING THEIR GUTS... i don&#39;t think i&#39;m ready yet.. i&#39;m just ANGRY about it... i don&#39;t know... sad ain&#39;t it...?
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s sad. You are just being human. Healing is a process, it does not happen overnight. The healing process has already begun for you because most cannot be as honest as you have about their true feelings. I appreciate that about you. When you are ready to let go, I am confident that you will. In the meantime, just have compassion for yourself which is the opposite of judging yourself and you will be fine. Here is a cyber hug for ya! :hug:
thanks so much.... here&#39;s a :hug: back atcha...

it&#39;s been one day at a time for me...i&#39;ll get there eventually.... :thumbsup:[/b][/quote]
No problem. That&#39;s what it is all about, supporting each other. :D

HarrieNaps
07-10-2003, 07:11 PM
I think it depends on what has happened and who it is.

As I grow I try harder to be open minded and understand other&#39;s and why they do the things but it is very hard sometimes for me to forgive other&#39;s and then sometimes it is not.

I know that in order for me to grow I must learn to forgive and move on but sometimes I get so darn mad :mad: I could hurt some one and I know this is not healthy for me but I am working on it.

NewNapps26
07-11-2003, 01:54 AM
I think I do forgive easily. IMO though, forgiving doesn&#39;t always mean continuing a relationship.

My parents and other friends have done me DIRTY and though I forgive them, I&#39;d feel like a fool if I allowed them to have the same spot in my life again. Like the saying goes, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

I insist on saving as much energy as possible and working toward happiness, so if someone wrongs me, it&#39;s very likely I won&#39;t put forth the extra effort to continue a relationship with that person, regardless of the relationship we had before.

triciegirl
07-12-2003, 06:28 PM
(triciegirl @ Jul 10 2003, 06:27 AM)
I have a question does forgiviness mean you have to take that person back into your heart? Now that is the issue with me. I can forgive someone who has greatly wronged me, and go on live my life and have nothing more to do with them. And I mean I can trully forgive them, actually wish them well, and mean it as long as they are out of my life. But, in bible class we were talking about forgiveness and how we should learn to forgive b/c God forgave us for our sins. Not only that, but he actually took us back into his heart. Yes we are not God or Christ, but the goal is to strive to be more christ like.


(Napy247 @Jul 10 2003, 12:21 PM)
For me personally, I evaluate on a case by case basis. I also consider how healthy the person is. Mainly the person&#39;s character. If that person has harmed me in some way but they have no remorse, no conscious then, probably I would not allow them back in my heart. They would probably continue to do harmful things so in order to protect myself I would have to love them at a distance. Some people I let back in my heart but my level of trust is adjusted. This is an over simplification of course because we as humans are so complex but this is the guideline I use when working through forgiveness.

I totally agree, I thanks for sharing your perspective on this issue it really helped me.

BlackOnyx03
07-13-2003, 02:58 AM
Here&#39;s a post that has helped me come to terms with forgiving those who have offended me. This article comes from the "good question" section of www.christianitytoday.com:


Christianity Today, December 3, 2001

Good Question
Keys to Forgiving
Lewis B. Smedes

How do you know that you have truly forgiven someone?
—Holly Beran, Aurora, Colorado
Jesus was unequivocal on this point: As his followers, we are required to forgive those who sin against us (Matt. 6:15). But what if we don&#39;t feel like we&#39;ve forgiven them? How do we know, then, if we have truly forgiven? The Holy Spirit, thank God, often enables people to forgive even though they are not sure how they did it. But forgiving, and knowing that we&#39;ve truly forgiven, comes easier when we understand the realities of forgiveness:

1. Forgiveness is a redemptive response to having been wronged and wounded. This is simple but important. Only those who have wronged and wounded us are candidates for forgiveness. If they injure us accidentally, we excuse them. We only forgive the ones we blame.

2. Forgiveness requires three basic actions. First, we surrender our right to get even. Every victim is sure that the victimizer deserves to suffer at least as much as he made us suffer. But that is not necessarily so. "The wages of sin (wronging God) is death" (Rom. 6:23), but the payment was made through the death of God&#39;s own Son. The blood of Christ covers all of our sins, but each of us must do personal business with God in order to experience his forgiveness. When we forgive, therefore, we place the outcome of the matter in God&#39;s hands and often choose to live with the scales unbalanced.

Second, we rediscover the humanity of our wrongdoer. When we have been badly injured and clearly wronged, we make an instant caricature of the person who did it to us. We define him totally by the one wrong he did. If he betrayed us, his total being is reduced to his betrayal. When we forgive, we rediscover that the person who wronged us is a complex, weak, confused, fragile person, not all that different from us. This is what God does. Our sin hid our faces from him; now, forgiven, we shine like sparkling jewels before him.

And third, we wish our wrongdoer well. We not only surrender our right to revenge against him; we desire good things to happen to him. We bless him. Unnatural? Too much to ask of us? Perhaps. And yet, this is how God forgives us; he not only surrenders his right to see us punished, he graces us with whatever blessing is right for us.

3. Forgiving takes time. God can forgive in a single breath. But we need time. Just before he died, C.S. Lewis wrote: "I think I have at last forgiven the cruel schoolmaster who so darkened my youth. I had done it many times before, but this time I think I have really done it." Maybe, had he lived longer, he would have had to do it again.

4. Forgiving does not require forgetting. True, God said through Isaiah (43:25), "I am he who blots out your transgression…. and I will not remember your sins." But does God have amnesia? Does God not remember that Peter denied his Lord? Or, does he treat Peter and all other forgiven people as if he cannot remember what they did? On a human level, it is futile to try to forget; the more we try to forget, the more we remember. But we can dethrone the memory; we can refuse to let it control our lives. We can detoxify the memory; we can purge its poison from our souls. But we do well not to worry about forgetting. Sufficient unto the day is forgiving.

5. Ideally, forgiving leads to reconciliation. But we often have to put up with less than the ideal. Sometimes the forgiven person will not want to be reunited with us; he may not care a fig for our grace. Besides, though he is forgiven, he may not be changed. If he is reunited with us, he is likely to clobber us again. Forgiving happens in our hearts. There can be no reunion without forgiving, but there can be forgiving without reunion. An offender who has violated a law will need to endure the just judicial consequences. But even as that happens, the offended person can pray and seek full reconciliation on the other side of justice.

6. Forgiving comes naturally to the forgiven. Nothing enables us to forgive like knowing in our hearts that we have been forgiven. This is probably why Jesus taught us to pray: "Forgive us our debts, [but only] as we forgive our debtors" (Matt. 6:12). Jesus implies that it is unthinkable for a forgiven person to refuse to forgive. If we do refuse, he says later, we have no claim on God&#39;s forgiveness. But remember, he does not expect perfect forgiving; he is the only expert at it. We are poor duffers trying to treat others as he treats us.

Lewis B. Smedes is professor emeritus of theology and ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary and author of The Art of Forgiving: When You Need to Forgive and Don&#39;t Know How (Ballantine).

Ask a Question, Get a Gift Send your questions to Good Question, Christianity Today, 465 Gundersen Drive, Carol Stream, IL 60188, or to cteditor@christianitytoday.com. If we use your question, you will receive a free copy of The Story of Christianity: 2,000 Years of Faith, a beautifully illustrated history of the church.

Copyright © 2001 Christianity Today. Click for reprint information.
December 3, 2001, Vol. 45, No. 15, Page 73

BamaFro
07-13-2003, 09:49 PM
Well, I guess forgiveness is all about me because I find it VERY difficult to forgive in general. :blink:

You could say that I have somewhat of a hardened heart so once someone hurts me, it&#39;s virtually impossible for me to forgive and let them back in again. I don&#39;t try to be that way on purpose, but it&#39;s something I&#39;ve picked up along the road of life. :afro:

Sometimes, I wonder if I even have a :pumpheart: .

traesure
07-14-2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Napy247@Jul 9 2003, 08:06 PM
The older I get the easier it becomes. There is a saying that hurt people hurt people. So I try not to take a percieved wrong personally because that person is probably acting out of a hurt, unhealed place. Also me carrying around resentments about what someone has done to me takes up too much head space and all I am doing is continuing the cycle of hurt. I truely believe that forgiveness is more for my benefit because by forgiving I heal and move on. I feel better about myself. But I don&#39;t forget. By remembering I adjust my level of trust and I just make sure I have a boundary in place so that person is not able to hurt me in the same way again.


ITA

Nappybutterfly
07-14-2003, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by jacura@Jul 9 2003, 05:17 PM
For some the spirit of forgiveness may not come from a religious/spiritual place, however my ability to forgive did.

Forgivness is about me and how I choose to take control of...live my life. Holding on to grudges, allowing others to change/effect my feelings is imo giving them control and power (to an extent) over me. I find it pretty easy to forgive now, and even easier to bless someone who has cursed or have ill will towards me. We are all human, and even with the best intentions are prone to make mistakes.
ITA--I find it to be so cleansing to forgive.

Twistednkinky
09-13-2003, 10:42 PM
The Power of Forgiveness


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are Past Hurts Weighing You Down?

Many individuals are journeying through life with emotional and psychological "stress and strain" from a variety of past hurts. Some may have resentment or anger against a parent, relative, or friend who has "wronged" them in the past. Holding on to negative feelings and attitudes has a direct effect on your health, whether you realize it or not! Let’s see how we can re-direct our feelings about past hurts in a positive and more constructive way. A new, refreshed attitude will allow us to live the happier, healthier lives that we deserve.

Consider Forgiveness

We are products of our life experiences and it is easy to allow past events to effect our current thoughts and feelings. Unpleasant and unfair actions by others can remain in our mind for a lifetime. People (even those that say they love us) can be mean and hurtful at times. It is not easy for many of us to forgive others, especially if we feel that we have a good reason to be upset with the other person.

You have, however, a decision to make. Either you can let the weight of past hurts keep you down, or you can make a determined effort to change the situation. I suggest that you consider forgiveness as a powerful tool that can help. The ability, compassion and wisdom to forgive one another for past wrongs, hurts, and misunderstandings is one of the greatest attributes any of us can possess and exercise.

What Forgiveness Can Do For You

When you and I truly and honestly forgive others for their wrongs toward us, we are set free in our own minds, souls, and spirits by our creator in heaven. You are really freeing yourself from the negative and unproductive feelings that hold you back from the blessings in store for you! The moment that one sincerely and freely forgives another, something wonderful and good happens to both the forgiver and the forgiven. The capacity for both to love one another is increased and strengthened. New horizons for greater, more treasured and enriched relationships are resurrected and made alive by the divine spirit of love.

Can you imagine how many marriages and strained family relationships would be healed and restored with love and genuine respect if individuals would truly forgive each other? Take a chance, make the first step if you have to. You will be rewarded. Even if the person that you are forgiving does not respond, you will feel better when you release any negative feelings you have.

God freely forgives us of our trespasses and we have no more important responsibility than to extend to others the forgiveness, which we can expect, from him. If we refuse to forgive others, what right do we have to expect kindness and forgiveness to be extended to us?

Unleash the power of forgiveness today!

Rev. Arly Pryor
San Jose, CA

Twistednkinky
09-14-2003, 03:14 AM
“Letting Go Of The Past To Move Forward Into The Future”


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Healing Without Hate: How To Forgive To Live TM

“Healing Without Hate: How to Forgive to Live,” is a ten step process that will help you become free to let go of the past and live the life that is intended for you. It has always been my belief that everyone was placed on this earth for a purpose. It is important for one to find out what their meaning in life is, so they can develop their message and then ultimately carry out their mission (purpose). How can you grow as a person or a business if you don’t know what your purpose is?

My life has often resembled a gift wrapped package that looks very well put together on the outside, but my “inside” was shattered and broken due to the troubles in my childhood. However, my paternal grandmother taught me to love others unconditionally and I began to put into place and practice steps to help my life become victorious and not to remain a victim. I have used the following steps to increase both my business and professional life in overcoming issues of the past.

Step 1: Prayer. I pray for those who have hurt or abused me. I have also learned it is very difficult to hate someone that you are praying for.

Step 2: Counsel. I reached out and received help when I realized I needed it.

Step 3: Confront. At the proper time, I went to both of my parents individually and confronted them and how they had effected my life. We must learn to confront the people in our lives that have hurt us.

Step 4: Release. Once I confronted my past and my pain, I then had to learn to let it go.

Step 5: Forgive. Forgiving is a big step in the healing process. We must also face whether we have “pardoned” someone with complete forgiveness or “paroled” them, where the forgiveness has conditions.

Step 6: Attitude. You must have an attitude of gratitude for the good things in your life while you are going through the healing process. Do not concentrate on just the negative. It’s very difficult to be depressed when you are counting your blessings.

Step 7: Joy. It is a decision to have joy on the inside while you experience happiness on the outside (circumstances around you).

Step 8: Goals. You must write down what you want to accomplish. If you don’t it will just be a dream. No one plans to fail, they just fail to plan.

Step 9: Give. No matter where you are in life, there’s always someone that could use your help. Reach out and help someone with your time and or resources.

Step 10: Live Life Now. Don’t wait until tomorrow because tomorrow is not promised to you.

It is my firm belief that if we make up our minds that we are not going to let the past control our future, we can learn to break down the walls of hurt and pain that hinder us from forgiving others and living fulfilled lives personally and professionally. Holding on to pain and hatred causes anger and bitterness. Anger and bitterness cause stress and anxiety, these emotions can cause a variety of other health problems. I know that it is possible to embrace happiness, experience joy, and have success. The choice is truly up to you!

Wendy R. Gladney
Author, Speaker
Founder of Personal Services Plus (PSP)
Los Angeles, CA

Peaches
09-14-2003, 07:36 AM
India.Arie has a song on her Voyage to India CD on forgiveness called "Get it Together". Y&#39;all know how thorough and deep India is. She talks about how holding on to painful emotional scars can create health problems and early aging. She talks about the hatred and bitterness that festers inside of us that causes us to reap these things. She also uses forgiveness as an empowerment tool.. it takes you out of the victim&#39;s seat and helps you to heal your mind, body, and soul. It&#39;s not the easiest thing to do though.. I have a hard time with it. I find myself needing to settle the score. :twak: We can never do that.. we have to move on and live our lives. All we&#39;re doing when we remain angry all the time is keep ourselves from being happy. Again, it is much easier said than done and requires practice and meditation.

strawwberryz
09-15-2003, 06:19 AM
Thanx Blackonyx and twistednkinky! :thumbsup:

You know...I was and still am at times (am working on it seriously) baaad when it came to forgiveness. I would definitely say it is over and seemingly patch things up but deep deep deep down I really had not forgiven completely and I was stewing and waiting for the opportune moment for torrential revenge. I know, I have evil tendancies :) I scare myself sometimes LOL

Then I had an epiphany one day when I was dealing with forgiving a dear old friend. Unforgiveness sometimescomes from a place of pride.

I traced back my reasoning when it came to why I found it soo hard to forgive and I realized that deep down I believed that I was the perfect friend who would never need forgiving as well.
How dare they wrong me! Like I was flawless :(
I never once put myself in the other person&#39;s shoes and even if I did, I KNEW I would never be that &#39;flawful&#39;!!! And anyway if I did, there would be a good reason right... :huh:
And the worst part about it, it was almost like I liked that &#39;unforgiving&#39; spirit. Like it was good to have something over someone else that you could constantly refer to at moments when you felt you needed ammonition for anything. Control issues maybe? Maybe actually being scared of what it would be like to just let it go?

Then the day came when I needed to be forgiven and when it came readily with no strings attached I felt so unworthy of it I realized that I was not ready to accept forgiveness because I did not give it. How is it that I expected God to forgive my dailytransgressions when I was not willing to do the same for my brother?

A great lesson in humility.

tran68
09-15-2003, 01:48 PM
When we forgive, we rediscover that the person who wronged us is a complex, weak, confused, fragile person, not all that different from us.

It&#39;s funny, in life we all have been in a situation where we need forgiveness...if you say you&#39;ve never needed to be forgiven you are not speaking the truth! And many of us get on our soap boxes and claim our lives are so pure and clean and it&#39;s not so.

Now, it doesn&#39;t mean that you become the kind of person folk trample on either but you don&#39;t go around playin Miss Celie...."Ain&#39;t nuttin good gonna happen to you til you do right by me"...that&#39;s not forgiveness that&#39;s holding on and wishing harm to another....not good..... :nohuh:

mochacaremel
09-16-2003, 02:52 AM
It is easy for me to forgive others. I have the hardest time forgiving myself.

Mocha

Joyfulocs
09-16-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by mochacaremel@Sep 15 2003, 08:52 PM
It is easy for me to forgive others. I have the hardest time forgiving myself.

Mocha
I&#39;m the same way. I spend far too much time playing the shoulda-coulda-woulda tape in my head when I really need to forgive myself and let it go. While I&#39;m playing that game, other people have forgiven me and moved on to the next issue at hand. If I did that, then I could receive other&#39;s forgiveness more readily than I do. I know Christ has forgiven me, but I keep playing that same old tape.

I am finding that as I get older and hopefully wiser, it&#39;s becoming easier to forgive others. I&#39;m also realizing how important it is to forgive others. It&#39;s a release for both sides.

BlkButterflye
09-16-2003, 04:23 AM
Forgiving is setting a prisoner free and then discovering that the prisoner was you.....

I don&#39;t have a problem forgiving because I understand that it only makes me grow...

I am not perfect; so how can I expect for someone to forgive me, if I am not a forgiving person. The time will come when I will need someone to forgive me......Peace...

undrea
09-16-2003, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by BlkButterflye@Sep 16 2003, 03:23 AM
Forgiving is setting a prisoner free and then discovering that the prisoner was you.....

I don&#39;t have a problem forgiving because I understand that it only makes me grow...

I am not perfect; so how can I expect for someone to forgive me, if I am not a forgiving person. The time will come when I will need someone to forgive me......Peace...
ITA! It&#39;s not hard for me to forgive. I&#39;ve had people that were close to me lie on me, steal from me and more, but I decided to let it go. I wanted to free myself of any grudges or hate that would build itself in my heart. I know that I&#39;m not perfect and that I would need forgive from someone one day.

Twistednkinky
09-16-2003, 03:15 PM
Thanx Blackonyx and twistednkinky!

U R Welcome! :thumbsup:


You know...I was and still am at times (am working on it seriously) baaad when it came to forgiveness

Sadly me too! :(


I would definitely say it is over and seemingly patch things up but deep deep deep down I really had not forgiven completely and I was stewing and waiting for the opportune moment for torrential revenge. I know, I have evil tendancies

I can certainly relate.......I have been known to be very vindictive and bent on vengence in the past.....which I found to be quite exhausting! Not being able to forgive and pursuing vindication and vengence......required too much energy, negative energy and has proven to be a big waste of time! But I have gotten much better and hope to continue to grow in this area!

And I have to agree with you, not being able to forgive is certainly steeped in pride! Conversely, being able to forgive and to receive forgiveness requires a great deal humility!

I am so glad that you shared your testimony, it was very very helpful to me!


I have the hardest time forgiving myself.

That&#39;s interesting!


Forgiving is setting a prisoner free and then discovering that the prisoner was you.....

I don&#39;t have a problem forgiving because I understand that it only makes me grow...

Very very insightful......thank you for sharing this, you have given me food for thought!

ReRoyalty
09-17-2003, 04:20 AM
Though I know it shouldn&#39;t be like this, I find it hard to forgive certain things. Just because I&#39;m talking about it I can&#39;t think of an example of one but I know there are somethings that really get under my skin. I&#39;m also my own worst critic and though I know by God&#39;s grace I&#39;m forgiven, it takes time sometimes for me to forgive myself. Both things I&#39;m truly working on.

Twistednkinky
09-17-2003, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by ReRoyalty@Sep 16 2003, 10:20 PM
I find it hard to forgive certain things.
Me too! :(

Betrayal of any kind, in any form is at the top of my list of what may qualify as "unforgiveable" sins! :nono:

It seems as though I am going through a lot of character development and pruning in the area of forgiveness and specifically with the matter of betrayal......as I have recently had to face not one, but two different situations that resulted in betrayal!

I tell you, life can be funny sometimes.....when you don&#39;t get the message or learn the lesson that you are suppose to learn, it often has a way of repeating itself. First, you get a small pebble tossed at your head and then if you still don&#39;t get it......you eventually graduate to something greater that really leaves an impression......like a huge boulder! ;)

I tell you, truly forgiveness is an area of concentration that I have really been trying to make a concerted effort to improve....I have probably read every scripture in the bible on forgiveness (<<<I do not say that to be vainglorious), have meditated on them, and ask God to make His Word, concerning the matter of forgiveness, to become a tablet on my :pumpheart: ! Bottomline, I want, what God wants....and that is having His words matching my deeds!

Moreover, I find myself studying The Fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23)! Right now, I am devoting my study to humility and reading all that God has to say about humility.....and boy, am I feeling challenged!

Anyway, warm wishes to all of you who are struggling with forgiveness, keep me in your thoughts and prayers.....I leave you with this quote:


The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
~Mahatma Gandhi~

Peace & Abundant Blessings.....

ReRoyalty
09-17-2003, 02:16 PM
TwinkyDinky-



First, you get a small pebble tossed at your head and then if you still don&#39;t get it......you eventually graduate to something greater that really leaves an impression......like a huge boulder!
Ain&#39;t that the truth! And I must say, I&#39;m trying to learn these lessons because I&#39;ve just about had it with some situations ;) .




Moreover, I find myself studying The Fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23)! Right now, I am devoting my study to humility and reading all that God has to say about humility.....and boy, am I feeling challenged!

I just wanted to share something with you... Our bible study is discussing the Fruit of the Spirit (in the Bible it actually says Fruit and not Fruits and it was taught to me that it means the Fruit of the Spirit is all the things listed, together and not just one or the other) and I thought it was really interesting to hear someone explain longsuffering as not just tolerating. You know how people tolerate things or people and call that longsuffering? I&#39;d beg to differ - Tolerating incinuates a negative attitude but longsuffering, on the other hand, is patiently enduring trials. I just found it interesting.

natkingcurl
09-18-2003, 04:25 PM
I&#39;ve had to resolve issues about particular in-law continously using my husband and me for money, that he&#39;s never made a good attempt to pay back. And we aren&#39;t talking $20 either. He would borrow the money, then disappear, not just from us, but from his family.

I knew I had a problem with forgiving when every time I thought of him, my stomach would get tight, I&#39;d see red, and I&#39;d wish bad things on him. So, I let it go. Every time I would start to feel that way, I&#39;d take deep breaths and would pray for him and his wife, to become more responsible for themselves and respectful to their family and friends.

I said that I would never help them again. But I didn&#39;t feel right being that way. They have innocent children who are affected by their parents&#39; irresponsibility.

So, my husband and I promised that we would never help them out financially anymore. You just can&#39;t trust liars and thieves. But if his kids are hungry, we&#39;ll buy food for them, if the kids need clothes, we&#39;ll give them clothes. But we&#39;ll never give $$ to him or his wife again.

This resolution has worked for me. At least I don&#39;t have that knot-in-the-stomach feeling anymore when I think of the two of them.

Twistednkinky
10-29-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by ReRoyalty@Sep 17 2003, 08:16 AM
I just wanted to share something with you... Our bible study is discussing the Fruit of the Spirit (in the Bible it actually says Fruit and not Fruits and it was taught to me that it means the Fruit of the Spirit is all the things listed, together and not just one or the other) and I thought it was really interesting to hear someone explain longsuffering as not just tolerating.
Thank you for the correction and further insight! :thumbsup

I have been tested in this area once again! And I would like to say, that I passed the test.....as I did not resort to my usual pattern of behavior when forgiveness was required of me. However when I examine the situation as a whole, I must conclude some failure.....as I was not able to salvage a friendship!

Yes, I have lost.....yet, another friend-the result of a misunderstanding and difference of opinion! And this loss for me was a big one.....at first I was angry, but then I was saddened and then back to angry! Basically, I was on a rollercoaster of emotions over this situation. And at this point, I can only hope that time will heal all wounds, but if it does not....I take comfort in knowing that many good things did occur as a result of this situation.

Nevertheless, I just wanted to share this sermon which was really helpful to me.....during this difficult time, when I was so tempted to return to old ways of thinking and being!

OVERCOMING EVIL
(How To Handle It When Others Wrong You)


1. Seek to communicate privately with the person who has wronged you.

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over" (Matthew 18:15).

2. If you can&#39;t get the matter settled, take one or two with you.

"But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses&#39;" (Matthew 18:16).

3. If that doesn&#39;t work, tell it to the church; seek help there.

"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector" (Matthew 18:17).

4. Bless those who persecute you.

"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse" (Romans 12:14).

5. Do not seek revenge.

"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody" (Romans 12:17).
"Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord" (Romans 12:19).
"Do not say, "I’ll pay you back for this wrong!" Wait for the LORD, and he will deliver you" (Proverbs 20:22).

6. Pursue peace with everyone.

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone" (Romans 12:18).

7. Overcome evil with good.

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good" (Romans 12:21).

8. Imitate Jesus by suffering wrongfully, if need be; in no way should we try to get even.

"To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps" (1 Peter 2:21).

9. Love your enemies and do good to them.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?" (Matthew 5:43-47).
On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head" (Romans 12:20).

10. Turn the other cheek; be kind to the person who has wronged you.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you" (Matthew 5:38-42).
"Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else" (1 Thessalonians 5:15).

I HTH someone!

Peace.....

DreamyNaps
10-30-2003, 02:53 PM
Good topic, however I&#39;m having difficulting differentiating (spelling?) from forgiving & forgetting...My situation deals with my Mother...I love her dearly but she was a single mother for awhile and has suffered from bioploar all her life and it was rough for me as a child because she would be like Dr. Jekly & Mr. Hyde. The problem is everytime she does something, the bitterness and the memories of my childhood pop up...I say I forgive her but why do I still have the memories & bitterness of what she did...how do u differentiate the two??? I understand the fact she had a rough up bringing and thats the reason why she treated me like she did...

sable73
10-30-2003, 03:58 PM
Forgiveness? Depends on what you define as forgiveness. Within myself I find that I have no problems forgiving an individual. However, I tend to let the pain that sometimes come with forgiving lie dormant in my thoughts. It may surface from time to time and that&#39;s when I have &#39;pity parties&#39;. I try to be forgiving yet in forgiving I fall short of the glory sometimes.