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brep2
02-07-2005, 06:40 PM
Hello ladies,

Some of you know that I am a Republican. A black Republican at that. Which to some is an oxymoron. What I want to know is, why do some African-Americans feel as though I am being disloyal to the race because my viewpoint differs? I mean, who said that if you are Black you must automatically be a devout Democrat! How am I denying my blackness? Society will not allow me to ever forget that I am a Black women for a second. Plus, I would not rather be anything else but. Just because I am Republican does not mean that I am a Bush groupie. I have not agreed with him for a long time, but I do agree with the ideology of the Party itself. Let me know what y'all think. ^_^

Pepper
02-07-2005, 07:05 PM
Done last week: Awren's "I'm a Black republican" thread ('http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44412&hl=republican')

tlynn1974
02-07-2005, 07:17 PM
I don't understand the thinking behind people who vote Republican period. What part of their ideology do you agree with? There willingness to tell me what I (as a woman) should be allowed to do with my body? Their willingness to tell me that I should be happy to give my life in order to bring a child in the world - never mind if I have 2 or 3 other children that would lose a mother. Their willingness to tell me we don't need affirmative action programs, but when you look at the executive level of most companies, it looks like a meeting for the good ole boy network. No women, blacks, and latinos allowed. Or maybe their willingness to destroy the middle class. Oh, wait, is it the way Republicans are the only Americans who love the Lord. The Democratic party is a party of secular devils. And you can't love the Lord if you want to give gays any rights. And let's not talk about their love of instilling fear in our hearts about everything from terrorists to gay marriage destroying "conventional marriage." All the while saying that everyone should have as many guns - automatic, revolver, semi-automatic, rifle - with VERY little government intervention.

I could go on and on with my complete and total disgust for the Republican party. But I'll use their motto regarding sin and sinners - I don't hate the Republican; I hate their principles.

Oh yeah, let's not forget our rush for WMD's. When none are found, we are told it was a humanitarian effort because Saddam was a monster. "He was killing his citizens." How many people have Republicans killed with their economic policies, their fight against universal health care (or at least affordable health care), and now their fight to make more Wall Street executives even richer by privatizing social security? Maybe we should be fighting our own demons instead poking around in someone else's backyard.

itaylor
02-08-2005, 12:16 AM
Amen. I couldn't have said it better myself.


Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 7 2005, 02:17 PM
I don't understand the thinking behind people who vote Republican period. What part of their ideology do you agree with? There willingness to tell me what I (as a woman) should be allowed to do with my body? Their willingness to tell me that I should be happy to give my life in order to bring a child in the world - never mind if I have 2 or 3 other children that would lose a mother. Their willingness to tell me we don't need affirmative action programs, but when you look at the executive level of most companies, it looks like a meeting for the good ole boy network. No women, blacks, and latinos allowed. Or maybe their willingness to destroy the middle class. Oh, wait, is it the way Republicans are the only Americans who love the Lord. The Democratic party is a party of secular devils. And you can't love the Lord if you want to give gays any rights. And let's not talk about their love of instilling fear in our hearts about everything from terrorists to gay marriage destroying "conventional marriage." All the while saying that everyone should have as many guns - automatic, revolver, semi-automatic, rifle - with VERY little government intervention.

I could go on and on with my complete and total disgust for the Republican party. But I'll use their motto regarding sin and sinners - I don't hate the Republican; I hate their principles.

Oh yeah, let's not forget our rush for WMD's. When none are found, we are told it was a humanitarian effort because Saddam was a monster. "He was killing his citizens." How many people have Republicans killed with their economic policies, their fight against universal health care (or at least affordable health care), and now their fight to make more Wall Street executives even richer by privatizing social security? Maybe we should be fighting our own demons instead poking around in someone else's backyard.

707421

ScoobyGurl
02-08-2005, 01:28 PM
After seeing the President&#39;s new budget and which programs (of course they&#39;re not ones that affect him and his cronies <_< ) get cut why would you want to be a Republican? WHY!? Let&#39;s cut funds to medicare. Let&#39;s make veterans pay higher premiums. Let&#39;s cut programs that help children and illiterate adults to learn how to read. Meanwhile, lets keep those tax cuts that helped to swallow up the surplus in place and lets give the Pentagon more billions to help kill more people. You know this is just so great for America <_< .

I&#39;m sorry I don&#39;t like demonize but the Republican party of today has got to be one of the most manipulative, corrupt, and immoral parties on the face of the planet. Just my :2cents: .

Button2004
02-08-2005, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 8 2005, 09:28 AM
After seeing the President&#39;s new budget and which programs (of course they&#39;re not ones that affect him and his cronies <_< ) get cut why would you want to be a Republican? WHY!? Let&#39;s cut funds to medicare. Let&#39;s make veterans pay higher premiums. Let&#39;s cut programs that help children and illiterate adults to learn how to read. Meanwhile, lets keep those tax cuts that helped to swallow up the surplus in place and lets give the Pentagon more billions to help kill more people. You know this is just so great for America <_< .

I&#39;m sorry I don&#39;t like demonize but the Republican party of today has got to be one of the most manipulative, corrupt, and immoral parties on the face of the planet. Just my :2cents: .

708333


:smil3f72836ee752e:

brep2
02-08-2005, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 7 2005, 08:17 PM
I don&#39;t understand the thinking behind people who vote Republican period. What part of their ideology do you agree with? There willingness to tell me what I (as a woman) should be allowed to do with my body? Their willingness to tell me that I should be happy to give my life in order to bring a child in the world - never mind if I have 2 or 3 other children that would lose a mother. Their willingness to tell me we don&#39;t need affirmative action programs, but when you look at the executive level of most companies, it looks like a meeting for the good ole boy network. No women, blacks, and latinos allowed. Or maybe their willingness to destroy the middle class. Oh, wait, is it the way Republicans are the only Americans who love the Lord. The Democratic party is a party of secular devils. And you can&#39;t love the Lord if you want to give gays any rights. And let&#39;s not talk about their love of instilling fear in our hearts about everything from terrorists to gay marriage destroying "conventional marriage." All the while saying that everyone should have as many guns - automatic, revolver, semi-automatic, rifle - with VERY little government intervention.

I could go on and on with my complete and total disgust for the Republican party. But I&#39;ll use their motto regarding sin and sinners - I don&#39;t hate the Republican; I hate their principles.

Oh yeah, let&#39;s not forget our rush for WMD&#39;s. When none are found, we are told it was a humanitarian effort because Saddam was a monster. "He was killing his citizens." How many people have Republicans killed with their economic policies, their fight against universal health care (or at least affordable health care), and now their fight to make more Wall Street executives even richer by privatizing social security? Maybe we should be fighting our own demons instead poking around in someone else&#39;s backyard.

707421


Thank you for your quote. I do not agree with abortion period. Obviously someone must tell you what to do with your body because, if you have 2 or 3 other children that you know you are struggling to take care of , why in the world would you go out and make another one. Why would you not want to take precautions to prevent another pregnancy. Some people are not doing that. Abortion is saying, I could not control my body but I want to kill the innocent child that has no choice in the matter. Some people will argue that it is okay for rape or incest victims. I am a product of both and I am so gratedul that my mother chose to spare my life. Secondly, affirmative action has helped more white women, who are considered minorities. Forget what corporate America looks like now, my goal is to leave a legacy with my life. I want to be able to show people that I am Black, Intelligent and Independent. I don&#39;t need a program to lessen the bar for me to achieve, i.e. "affirmative action". I know if fact that there are some Democrats that love the Lord, just like their are some Republicans that do not, but the Bible clearly states that if you love the Lord you must keep his commandments and homosexuality is a stated sin, along with racism and pre marital sex. So people should be given rights for what is morally wrong

NLight1
02-08-2005, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 8 2005, 01:57 PM
Abortion is saying, I could not control my body but I want to kill the innocent child that has no choice in the matter.
That is what abortion is saying to you. This "saying" isn&#39;t the end all to every woman.

but the Bible clearly states that if you love the Lord you must keep his commandments and homosexuality is a stated sin, along with racism and pre marital sex. So people should be given rights for what is morally wrong
Everyone does not believe in the Bible, nor should they be forced to do so. But if the Bible is the end all of what is "right" then George Bush has broken every commandent that was ever written :angry: And racism, geez, I think our government is composed on some of the most racist people on the planet. Premarital sex is none of your business, unless you are having it, then worry about what you are doing. Otherwise, it is between the two consenting adults and their God.

Republicans are for rich white Americans and their idealology. But then again, I think Democrats aren&#39;t any better. I don&#39;t believe in either of these political parties. In a nation as vast and diverse as America, two political parties does not represent the thoughts and ideas of everyone. But oh well, it is what it is.

Anywho, IMHO, religion and individual morals have no place in government, but as we all know, they do anyway and Republican white men will continue to try to tell women what they can and can&#39;t do with their bodies, continue to search for WMD :Angry_boese008:, and continue sending Americans over to Iraq to DIE for no logical reason. Yea, I see all the advantages of being a Republican, NONE! This is why I am neither a donkey&#39;s or elephant&#39;s azz, I am a GDI (God d**n Independent) :)

tlynn1974
02-08-2005, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 8 2005, 03:57 PM
Thank you for your quote. I do not agree with abortion period. Obviously someone must tell you what to do with your body because, if you have 2 or 3 other children that you know you are struggling to take care of , why in the world would you go out and make another one. Why would you not want to take precautions to prevent another pregnancy. Some people are not doing that. Abortion is saying, I could not control my body but I want to kill the innocent child that has no choice in the matter. Some people will argue that it is okay for rape or incest victims. I am a product of both and I am so gratedul that my mother chose to spare my life. Secondly, affirmative action has helped more white women, who are considered minorities. Forget what corporate America looks like now, my goal is to leave a legacy with my life. I want to be able to show people that I am Black, Intelligent and Independent. I don&#39;t need a program to lessen the bar for me to achieve, i.e. "affirmative action". I know if fact that there are some Democrats that love the Lord, just like their are some Republicans that do not, but the Bible clearly states that if you love the Lord you must keep his commandments and homosexuality is a stated sin, along with racism and pre marital sex. So people should be given rights for what is morally wrong

708621


Wait, I never said ANYTHING about not being able to afford the 4th child. I said it was not safe for her MEDICALLY. Have you heard of instances where a doctor has informed a woman that if she has this child she could/would die? Why should the government make the decision that the woman should die leaving the rest of her kids without their mother?

BTW, I have been meaning to ask a pro-choice Republican a couple questions. Do you think that reversing Roe v Wade will stop women from having abortions (or just poor women) or will we hear more stories like one here where a girl had her boyfriend beat her with a bat until she aborted the baby? And what are we going to do with all these extra children? Are we going to send them to you? Are we going to increase funding for foster care? Speaking of foster care, did you hear about the couple accused of pulling out the toenails of their foster kids with pliers while starving them darn near to death?

And as for your list of sins, that has no place in government. What would you say if we had a Jewish president who said we could just eat kosher food because that is what he believed. Or a Muslim that mandated we had to pray as often as they do? You Republicans would have a FIT!!! We have a high Muslim number in one of our suburbs and they recently got permission to ring their call to prayer sirens and people are upset. Never mind the church bells that are rung every week. Such hypocrites!

InnocentKiss
02-08-2005, 10:57 PM
Actually, I believe being a democrat is just as bad. Like Malcom said, you&#39;re a victim of the democrats. I&#39;m not against voting or whatever, because I know in the next election I probably will (first time!) but as far as identifying with the amerikan government and proudly saying I&#39;m this or that..I&#39;ll never do. I just vote for the party that&#39;ll benefit me most.

moejoe4
02-09-2005, 06:17 AM
All I can say is WOW! :pop:

Denny
02-09-2005, 10:45 AM
Well Brep2 seems like you need Affirmative action for Black Republicans! :P

Sorry I don&#39;t live in the USA but the Republicans are traditionally like the Conservative party in Britian. Most minorities tend go to the Left so over here most blacks are Labour supporters, in my mind Labour takes black votes for granted and deserve a bloody nose at the next election so all ye Brits Vote for Me!

BTW fellow Brits history records it was Labour that was anti the Windrush immigration, thought our ancestors would take their supporters jobs away, now if all non white immigrants and their descendants left I think United Kingdom Plc would grind to a halt!

brep2
02-09-2005, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 8 2005, 09:05 PM
Wait, I never said ANYTHING about not being able to afford the 4th child. I said it was not safe for her MEDICALLY. Have you heard of instances where a doctor has informed a woman that if she has this child she could/would die? Why should the government make the decision that the woman should die leaving the rest of her kids without their mother?

BTW, I have been meaning to ask a pro-choice Republican a couple questions. Do you think that reversing Roe v Wade will stop women from having abortions (or just poor women) or will we hear more stories like one here where a girl had her boyfriend beat her with a bat until she aborted the baby? And what are we going to do with all these extra children? Are we going to send them to you? Are we going to increase funding for foster care? Speaking of foster care, did you hear about the couple accused of pulling out the toenails of their foster kids with pliers while starving them darn near to death?

And as for your list of sins, that has no place in government. What would you say if we had a Jewish president who said we could just eat kosher food because that is what he believed. Or a Muslim thatmandated we had to pray as often as they do? You Republicans would have a FIT!!! We have a high Muslim number in one of our suburbs and they recently got permission to ring their call to prayer sirens and people are upset. Never mind the church bells that are rung every week. Such hypocrites!

708716

<_< No, reversing Roe V. Wade would not stop abortions, but it could stop abortion from being a right. I do not believe women have the right to be killers. I think you are exactly right. Where are the children going to go? It is time that women take responsibilty for their actions and stop blaming other people for their unsound decisions. I do relaize there are extreme traumatic situations but that does not constitute killing a child that had nothing to do with what happened. Adoption is always an option. No one is thinking about the innocent children that are dying. Foster care is a totally separate issue from abortion. I have been in foster care myself and it is a horribly run system.

And the list of "God&#39;s" sin should be in American government a nation founded on Biblical principles. In Muslim countries their government is based from the Koran. So we as American should be different from all other human societies? I believe everyone is free to believe what they want religiously, but Christians should not have to compromise and be quiet just because our belief system is not popular.

ScoobyGurl
02-09-2005, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 9 2005, 10:00 AM
And the list of "God&#39;s" sin should be in American government a nation founded on Biblical principles. In Muslim countries their government is based from the Koran. So we as American should be different from all other human societies? I believe everyone is free to believe what they want religiously, but Christians should not have to compromise and be quiet just because our belief system is not popular.

709607


In case you didn&#39;t notice, this isn&#39;t a Christian nation <_< . A majority of people in this nation don&#39;t even attend religious services. Not to mention that there are so many religious minorities in this nation. In addition, this nation was founded on a variety of principles including principles from Ancient Greece and Deist Principles as well. Also, as a Muslim, I can tell you that Muslim countries that are theocracies (and not all majority Muslim countries are) are complete and total hell holes. The women have very little rights, not to mention things such as the arts (both visual and performing arts) are suppressed. I don&#39;t agree with abortion but at the same time the government has NO right to interfere in such personal affairs as our religion. NONE! :angry:

tatyroots
02-09-2005, 02:22 PM
Not being american, i would still like to give an input about the controversial republican agendas. I&#39;m an african woman living in the UK, and I always follow american politics, because then you can see how their internal choices will affect african countries.

Reversing Roe V Wade, would not only affect american women, it brings with it gagging orders to humanitarian organization that provide any form of birth control services to populations. :(

I found that sick, now someone tell me, would you rather encourage abstinence and prayers for a woman that can contract AIDS in africa, allowing children to be orphan, or would you encourage programs that educate and provide condoms mto women to save their lives?

Nappilocs
02-09-2005, 02:27 PM
Bible clearly states that if you love the Lord you must keep his commandments and homosexuality is a stated sin, along with racism and pre marital sex. So people should be given rights for what is morally wrong

Morally wrong? MORALLY WRONG!!! Do you call going to other countries and killing people and stripping them of their culture and religion for your own monetary gain Moral? Do you call LYING moral? Do you think that all of these bullsh** tax laws and loopholes that allow the rich, Big Corporations and the “good ol boys” to get over, while the middle class and the poor are struggling is Moral?!
When I think of our president, the Last thing I think about is the bible, morality or the commandments. I am so sick and tired of you Christians trying to place your religious beliefs on everyone else. It’s your bible that says God gave us free will and he will deal with us on Judgment day. So who are YOU to tell someone what they can think, or what they can do in their own bedrooms. It’s bad enough that this religion is in my face all the damn time, at work, on TV, at the mall, wherever I go there is some Christian influence. Now you are telling me that if I don’t believe in your bible, then it’s against the law? Isn’t that the same injustice that America claims to be defending in Iraq? Hypocritical if you ask me. One of the things this country was supposedly built on FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Not CHRISTIAN OPINION.

HaitianPeach
02-09-2005, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 8 2005, 02:57 PM
Forget what corporate America looks like now, my goal is to leave a legacy with my life. I want to be able to show people that I am Black, Intelligent and Independent. I don&#39;t need a program to lessen the bar for me to achieve, i.e. "affirmative action". I know if fact that there are some Democrats that love the Lord, just like their are some Republicans that do not, but the Bible clearly states that if you love the Lord you must keep his commandments and homosexuality is a stated sin, along with racism and pre marital sex. So people should be given rights for what is morally wrong

708621


#1 this whole "i dont need a program to lessen the bar for me" is bull sh*t... and it is the most selfish, load of crap i&#39;ve heard in a long time. It totally ignores the fact that there are students who are currently in our school system who cant even get toilet paper in their schools, let alone books or any real education. republicans want to cut all the dollars that would go towards improving schools, but dont want to help make the school system equal either. i am sick and TIRED of hearing this, egomanical garbage... we are a community, and until WE as a COMMUNITY are ALL about to achieve through a QUALITY education system then we have a responsibility to keep these programs in place

#2 i preface my following comment with this... i am a God fearing Catholic woman who truely loves the world. with that said...
WHO CARES WHAT YOUR LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE SAYS.... there is and always MUST BE a seperation between church and state. you absolutely CANNOT infringe on someones personal rights. to say somebody "shouldnt be given rights for what is morally wrong" TOTALLY goes against every tenant this country was built on

*sigh* :doh

ScoobyGurl
02-09-2005, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 8 2005, 02:57 PM
Secondly, affirmative action has helped more white women, who are considered minorities. Forget what corporate America looks like now, my goal is to leave a legacy with my life. I want to be able to show people that I am Black, Intelligent and Independent. I don&#39;t need a program to lessen the bar for me to achieve, i.e. "affirmative action". I know if fact that there are some Democrats that love the Lord, just like their are some Republicans that do not, but the Bible clearly states that if you love the Lord you must keep his commandments and homosexuality is a stated sin, along with racism and pre marital sex. So people should be given rights for what is morally wrong

708621


Do you live in America or fantasy land? I ask because you don&#39;t seem to be dealing with reality at all. Affirmative Action isn&#39;t about lowering the bar but realizing that factors such as race and sex have historically denied minorities and women access to the same kind of education and jobs that white men have such easy access to for centuries. Just because AA unforunately benefits more white women than minorities doesn&#39;t mean you abandon it! It means that you work on it so that it can do what it was intended to do. You don&#39;t throw the baby out with the bathwater! :angry:

As far as obeying the Lord&#39;s commandments, not everyone is Christian so the "Lord&#39;s commandments" don&#39;t apply to everyone. However, if we want to talk about obeying the Lord&#39;s commandment, let&#39;s talk about how Republicans love to disobey the commandment to help the poor and the disadvantaged in society. Privatizing Social Security, cutting funds to programs that help to teach children and illiterate adults how to read, making veterans pay higher premiums for healthcare, cutting funds for medicare-how is that taking care of the poor and the disadvantaged? I don&#39;t know about you but I think Jesus would be pissed! Let&#39;s not even mention how Bush wants to keep all those tax cuts that helped the wealthy the most in place. With privatizing social security, eliminating the estate tax, and pushing tax cuts like they&#39;re illegal drugs, Bush seems more concerned with helping the advantaged and the wealthy. Now is that obeying the Lord&#39;s commandments? :rolleyes: C&#39;mon, let&#39;s keep things real!

The Republicans&#39; foreign policy--talk about following the Lord&#39;s commandments! Supporting tyrannical governments around the world for our own financial benefit, invading countries preemptively, giving very little funds to stop the spread of AIDS in Africa yet giving way more funds to the Pentagon to build up a military that is already one of the best in world, and supporting an Israeli government that oppressed the Palestianians would make Jesus so proud! WHATEVER! Before the Republicans can even begin to talk about following the Lord&#39;s commandment they need to do it themselves! :angry:

lifeAgift
02-09-2005, 03:59 PM
Do your history folks. The Republican party was the first party that many
"Negro" Americans aligned themselves with. It was through the Republican party that we gained initial access and our political voice became known. Remeber W.E.B. Dubois.

Both the popular parties have done their share of damage but you are better off to look at the issues and vote according to your conscious, once informed.

Despite all the rhetoric concerning BUSH and his military decisions, remember we don&#39;t live in a vaccum . No one single individual is responsible for what happens in this country. Congress has more power than many realize.

Guess what ??? While African Americans debate over which party to align themselves with, both the Democratic and Republican party have found themselves new groups to pander to. That is Latinos and Asians.
We as AA&#39;s represent 13% of the population, yet where are our seats in the house, senate or congress?

Party affialiation garners $$$ and constituent support that independents usually don&#39;t have but choosing a party affiliation for the everyday voter is not required. You can register to vote without registering for a PArty.

:2cents: Don&#39;t allow others to be presumptive regarding your vote or to take you and/or your communities issues for granted.

ScoobyGurl
02-09-2005, 04:05 PM
Do your history folks. The Republican party was the first party that many
"Negro" Americans aligned themselves with. It was through the Republican party that we gained initial access and our political voice became known.

Yes, we should do our history because the Republican party of today is not the Republican party of Lincoln and progressives. Rather, it is the Democratic party of the 1950 and 1960 who switched during Nixon&#39;s elections in &#39;68 and &#39;72.


Despite all the rhetoric concerning BUSH and his military decisions, remember we don&#39;t live in a vaccum . No one single individual is responsible for what happens in this country. Congress has more power than many realize.

Yes, Congress has a lot of power and unforunately the majority in both houses are Republicans. Not to mention that most Republicans are in support of Bush&#39;s policies. Bush is the face of the Republican party. There are some moderate Republicans but they&#39;re not the majority of Republicans.

Ameka
02-09-2005, 04:12 PM
Vote who you want to vote for. That is one of the things our ancestors struggled for. Choice. We have a choice. Vote for who you want to vote for. And furthermore, you don&#39;t have to explain to anyone why you voted for that person. Again, its your choice.

charli
02-09-2005, 04:38 PM
With privatizing social security, eliminating the estate tax, and pushing tax cuts like they&#39;re illegal drugs, Bush seems more concerned with helping the advantaged and the wealthy.

People mistakenly assume that these things only benefit the advantaged or wealthy. The estate tax affects (potentially) everybody, but since it&#39;s associated with the word &#39;estate&#39; people tend to think &#39;rich&#39;. Just remember that if your parents die and leave you a home or other assets and you have to fork over half of it to the IRS. Estate taxes don&#39;t penalize the well to do as much because they entirely circumvent it with trusts and strategic estate planning. Poor people can&#39;t afford that.

Like I said, remember that if your parents leave you a paid off house and you have to take a mortgage on it to pay the taxes (based on current market value and NOT what they purchased it for) because it is precisely those who have money but not enough money, who get hit with that.

And then holla at me so I can buy that sucker if the IRS sells it.

Oh, one more thing. I&#39;mma break it down-- rich people don&#39;t need tax cuts because they can hire tax attorneys and accountants and circumvent taxes like a mf-er. I knew this woman who grossed a couple mil a year but through trusts only paid $50,000 in taxes.

The tax cuts benefit the middle class more than the wealthy. That&#39;s just a misconception that Democrats push.

ScoobyGurl
02-09-2005, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 9 2005, 12:38 PM
People mistakenly assume that these things only benefit the advantaged or wealthy. The estate tax affects (potentially) everybody, but since it&#39;s associated with the word &#39;estate&#39; people tend to think &#39;rich&#39;. Just remember that if your parents die and leave you a home or other assets and you have to fork over half of it to the IRS. Estate taxes don&#39;t penalize the well to do as much because they entirely circumvent it with trusts and strategic estate planning. Poor people can&#39;t afford that.

Like I said, remember that if your parents leave you a paid off house and you have to take a mortgage on it to pay the taxes (based on current market value and NOT what they purchased it for) because it is precisely those who have money but not enough money, who get hit with that.

And then holla at me so I can buy that sucker if the IRS sells it.

Oh, one more thing. I&#39;mma break it down-- rich people don&#39;t need tax cuts because they can hire tax attorneys and accountants and circumvent taxes like a mf-er. I knew this woman who grossed a couple mil a year but through trusts only paid $50,000 in taxes.

The tax cuts benefit the middle class more than the wealthy. That&#39;s just a misconception that Democrats push.

709843


Are any of these things benefitting the poor? I&#39;m not talking about if they can benefit the poor, I talking about if they realistically benefit the poor (not the middle class or the wealthy but the poor).

tlynn1974
02-09-2005, 06:11 PM
I am not talking about particular people. I am talking about the ideology differences. I have more in common with the democratic ideology in being pro-choice, pro-Affirmative Action, against charter schools, etc.

However, if McCain had run against Kerry, he MAY of had my vote because although he is a Republican, he is considered moderate. I would have to do more research in his policies. There are DemocratsI wouldn&#39;t support because I feel are too much to the left


Originally posted by InnocentKiss@Feb 8 2005, 07:57 PM
Actually, I believe being a democrat is just as bad. Like Malcom said, you&#39;re a victim of the democrats. I&#39;m not against voting or whatever, because I know in the next election I probably will (first time!) but as far as identifying with the amerikan government and proudly saying I&#39;m this or that..I&#39;ll never do. I just vote for the party that&#39;ll benefit me most.

708953

lifeAgift
02-09-2005, 06:17 PM
LAst I checked the truely poor don&#39;t pay taxes anyway.

The Earned Income Credit is even a refund of monies never paid in.

With or without children the very poor don&#39;t usually have a substantial tax burden.

lifeAgift
02-09-2005, 06:17 PM
LAst I checked the truely poor don&#39;t pay taxes anyway.

The Earned Income Credit is even a refund of monies never paid in.

With or without children the very poor don&#39;t usually have a substantial tax burden.

tlynn1974
02-09-2005, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 9 2005, 11:00 AM
<_< No, reversing Roe V. Wade would not stop abortions, but it could stop abortion from being a right. I do not believe women have the right to be killers. I think you are exactly right. Where are the children going to go? It is time that women take responsibilty for their actions and stop blaming other people for their unsound decisions. I do relaize there are extreme traumatic situations but that does not constitute killing a child that had nothing to do with what happened. Adoption is always an option. No one is thinking about the innocent children that are dying. Foster care is a totally separate issue from abortion. I have been in foster care myself and it is a horribly run system.

And the list of "God&#39;s" sin should be in American government a nation founded on Biblical principles. In Muslim countries their government is based from the Koran. So we as American should be different from all other human societies? I believe everyone is free to believe what they want religiously, but Christians should not have to compromise and be quiet just because our belief system is not popular.

709607


Do you believe in capital punishment? Most Republicans support it. And it&#39;s funny how it is usually the same person that says that life should be preserved. I guess we have gotten so close to God that we have taken on some of His responsibilites and have taken it upon ourselves to decide who should live, who should die, and when.

And how could you possibly say that foster care is different from abortion? What do you honestly think is going to happen to a lot of those children? Take off the rose colored glasses, please!

How can you say that everyone is free to believe what they want, but you want to force kids to say "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Christians should not have to compromise, but non-Christians should basically give up their beliefs?

tlynn1974
02-09-2005, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 9 2005, 11:15 AM
In case you didn&#39;t notice, this isn&#39;t a Christian nation <_< . A majority of people in this nation don&#39;t even attend religious services. Not to mention that there are so many religious minorities in this nation. In addition, this nation was founded on a variety of principles including principles from Ancient Greece and Deist Principles as well. Also, as a Muslim, I can tell you that Muslim countries that are theocracies (and not all majority Muslim countries are) are complete and total hell holes. The women have very little rights, not to mention things such as the arts (both visual and performing arts) are suppressed. I don&#39;t agree with abortion but at the same time the government has NO right to interfere in such personal affairs as our religion. NONE! :angry:

709631



:smil3f72836ee752e:

charli
02-09-2005, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by lifeAgift@Feb 9 2005, 11:17 AM
LAst I checked the truely poor don&#39;t pay taxes anyway.

The Earned Income Credit is even a refund of monies never paid in.

With or without children the very poor don&#39;t usually have a substantial tax burden.

709974


AGREED!

It&#39;s a misconception that the poor are unfairly burdened by taxes. the only brackets disproportionately burdened by taxes are actually the middle classes (middle class, upper middle class, etc). So tax breaks don&#39;t have to benefit the poor, they already are taxed at a MUCH lower percentage AND have the earned income credit to compensate for that.

charli
02-09-2005, 06:38 PM
I also wanted to add, that the purpose of income taxes is not to redistribute wealth and make the poor un-poor through reverse taxation. it&#39;s a capatlist economy and poor people will be poor because of their income (or lack thereof), not because of taxes. And the purpose of tax cuts has always been to alleviate the burden of those that were unfairly taxed in one way or another (like the old marriage penalty and such) NOT to give poor people enough money to get out of poverty.

And hell, if you are REALLY poor, you end up being exempt from paying taxes at all AND can get an earned income credit.

ScoobyGurl
02-09-2005, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by lifeAgift@Feb 9 2005, 02:17 PM
LAst I checked the truely poor don&#39;t pay taxes anyway.

The Earned Income Credit is even a refund of monies never paid in.

With or without children the very poor don&#39;t usually have a substantial tax burden.

709974


The poor don&#39;t pay taxes? :huh:

My point was that the Estate Tax doesn&#39;t benefit the poor because they don&#39;t have large amount of property and assets to give away in the first place. The tax cuts don&#39;t benefit the poor because as you said they don&#39;t pay a lot in taxes in the first place. As I said before, Republican policies benefit the upper class and the Republicans could care less about helping working class people.

Nappilocs
02-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 9 2005, 07:50 PM
The poor don&#39;t pay taxes? :huh:

My point was that the Estate Tax doesn&#39;t benefit the poor because they don&#39;t have large amount of property and assets to give away in the first place. The tax cuts don&#39;t benefit the poor because as you said they don&#39;t pay a lot in taxes in the first place. As I said before, Republican policies benefit the upper class and the Republicans could care less about helping working class people.

710046

Thank you.

tlynn1974
02-09-2005, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 9 2005, 03:34 PM
AGREED!

It&#39;s a misconception that the poor are unfairly burdened by taxes. the only brackets disproportionately burdened by taxes are actually the middle classes (middle class, upper middle class, etc). So tax breaks don&#39;t have to benefit the poor, they already are taxed at a MUCH lower percentage AND have the earned income credit to compensate for that.

710012


This is not 100% true. Sales tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, etc are all unfair to the poor. These taxes affect the poor more than other classes. Not to mention the fact that gas and inflation have increased while minimum wage has stayed the same.

lifeAgift
02-09-2005, 07:12 PM
Estate tax seperate issue I agree.

Liquor and Ciggarette tax, not unfair at all...these are optional products to support a habit/addiction that doesn&#39;t discriminate between SES.

Sales and Gas tax a monster though!!!!!
Kicks my butt daily!

However last year sales tax onn the minivan I purchased is tax deductible. Yipee!

charli
02-09-2005, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 9 2005, 12:05 PM
This is not 100% true. Sales tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, etc are all unfair to the poor. These taxes affect the poor more than other classes. Not to mention the fact that gas and inflation have increased while minimum wage has stayed the same.

710082


Those taxes are state taxes, except for the federal gasoline tax. Since those taxes are directly tied into consumption, you cannot argue that it affects the poor unfairly because they (presumably) would pay less taxes because they consume less.

And again, this is discretionary spending. I mean, you&#39;re going to go into a store and show your 1040 to pay lower cigarette tax? If you are poor, stop smoking since smoking is such an expensive habit.

The only one I can even remotely agree on is sales tax, but even then,it&#39;s fair because it is tied to consumption and food based groceries are not subject to sales tax. But really, how can you say you are poor and shouldn&#39;t pay cigarette or liquor tax because it effects you unfairly when the most obvious resolution is not to purchase the cigarettes or alcohol.

And furthermore, how can you argue how unfair it is when each state has a different tax rate? Especially those states that have no tax? I could easily say that if you are so poor that sales tax is a huge unfair burden, then you most likely live in a state with a high cost of living (like California or NY which both have high sales tax rates) so there is the option of mving to a lower cost/lower taxed state. It&#39;s not a federal tax. And it shoudn&#39;t be repealed just because people are poor, nor should there be exemptions to that. It&#39;s such an impossible thing to enforce really, are people going to have special cards to show their poverty level to be exempt from sales tax? What about online purchases? How do you stop fraud? These are entirely fair taxes.

tlynn1974
02-09-2005, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 9 2005, 04:40 PM
Those taxes are state taxes, except for the federal gasoline tax. Since those taxes are directly tied into consumption, you cannot argue that it affects the poor unfairly because they (presumably) would pay less taxes because they consume less.

And again, this is discretionary spending. I mean, you&#39;re going to go into a store and show your 1040 to pay lower cigarette tax? If you are poor, stop smoking since smoking is such an expensive habit.

The only one I can even remotely agree on is sales tax, but even then,it&#39;s fair because it is tied to consumption and food based groceries are not subject to sales tax. But really, how can you say you are poor and shouldn&#39;t pay cigarette or liquor tax because it effects you unfairly when the most obvious resolution is not to purchase the cigarettes or alcohol.

And furthermore, how can you argue how unfair it is when each state has a different tax rate? Especially those states that have no tax? I could easily say that if you are so poor that sales tax is a huge unfair burden, then you most likely live in a state with a high cost of living (like California or NY which both have high sales tax rates) so there is the option of mving to a lower cost/lower taxed state. It&#39;s not a federal tax. And it shoudn&#39;t be repealed just because people are poor, nor should there be exemptions to that. It&#39;s such an impossible thing to enforce really, are people going to have special cards to show their poverty level to be exempt from sales tax? What about online purchases? How do you stop fraud? These are entirely fair taxes.

710143



I never said sales tax should be repealed, I simply said it was unfair. A person who makes $20K a year will eat just as much (or little) as someone making $150K. However, that food will use up a higher percentage of that person&#39;s income. That being said, it is a necessary tax and like my momma always told me, "Life ain&#39;t fair." I put it out there because the earlier comments made it seem like that poor were getting off easy because they were poor. They make get a tax credit for being poor, but they also a higher percentage of the money they have on necessary spending.

As for your comment about moving to another state, how is a poor person supposed to pay for that. A lot of people with money can&#39;t just pick up and move to another state.

And last time I checked, liquor and cigarette are highly addictive. A person may not just be able to quit without any outside help. And I can&#39;t afford Nicorette, so I doubt many of the poor can. Thus, they are still smoking and paying those taxes. And if you think of the added stress that many lower income people face paying the bills and some working multiple jobs, they may feel that smoking is their only release.

Furthermore, many people (rich and poor) think "It&#39;s only $3 a pack", not realizing that $3 a pack * 1 pack a day for a year = $1,095. How do you think places like Rent-a-Center make money?

Again, I am not necessarily saying they should be repealed because I can&#39;t stand smoking. Nevertheless, these taxes sometimes put a higher burden on the poor.

charli
02-09-2005, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 9 2005, 11:50 AM
The poor don&#39;t pay taxes? :huh:

My point was that the Estate Tax doesn&#39;t benefit the poor because they don&#39;t have large amount of property and assets to give away in the first place. The tax cuts don&#39;t benefit the poor because as you said they don&#39;t pay a lot in taxes in the first place. As I said before, Republican policies benefit the upper class and the Republicans could care less about helping working class people.

710046


Working class and poor are not the same. Maybe in the sense of everybody defining their own relative cut off, but it&#39;s not. The IRS has guidelines for income threshholds for when a person lives in poverty.

And then there is a marginal tax increase depending on income. The only way to benefit the poor is to not tax them at all.

I don&#39;t know if many people talking about a tax burden have actually ever looked at the data of the average percentage of income that people pay by income level.

Those with income over $100,000 pay the higest tax DOLLARS but a low tax PERCENTAGE. those making below $30,000 pay both a low amount of dollars and a low percentage. It is the middle class, those of about $40,000 to 6 figures that pay the highest tax percentage and thus have the heavier burden. It is a foolish mistake to think the middle class are not affected by estate taxes as a great deal of middle class DO own homes and/or have parents that DO own homes and thus WOULD be affected by estate taxes. For the overwhelming majority of people, their primarily deal with estate taxes is the passing down of property upon the death of ones parents.

Again, people with considerable financial assets usually go through the expense and care to engage in estate planning and establish trusts.

It is the person who bought a home for $200,000 lived in it forever and it appreciated to $800,000 and leaves it to their children, who find themselves liable for about $400,000 in estate taxes because there was no estate planning. THOSE are the people who NEED alleviation of estate taxes. Because AGAIN, the wealthy circumvent that problem through financial planning.

charli
02-09-2005, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 9 2005, 12:56 PM
I never said sales tax should be repealed, I simply said it was unfair. A person who makes $20K a year will eat just as much (or little) as someone making $150K. However, that food will use up a higher percentage of that person&#39;s income.
710181


SALES TAX IS A STATE TAX. And not every state charges a sales tax on food based groceries. In my state, it is prepared food and other consumables that are charged sales tax, not food bases groceries. That is NOT a valid argument for sales tax being an unfair burden on the poor. What it IS an argument for is making food based groceries exempt from taxation.


And last time I checked, liquor and cigarette are highly addictive. A person may not just be able to quit without any outside help. And I can&#39;t afford Nicorette, so I doubt many of the poor can. Thus, they are still smoking and paying those taxes. And if you think of the added stress that many lower income people face paying the bills and some working multiple jobs, they may feel that smoking is their only release.

That&#39;s not an argument for not taxing cigs and alcohol. most of those taxes are to discourage the habit and to offset the impact that things like smoking have on the health care system. FOR EXAMPLE, recently california increased the cigarette tax because they were spending more money through the state health care system to treat smoking related illnesses.

I mean what difference does it make that it&#39;s addictive, or that it&#39;s a person&#39;s only relief of stress? Those things have NOTHING to do with income so why should poor people get an exception because they chose an expensive addiction?

momofthree
02-10-2005, 02:43 AM
Go Condi! --CONDI/FRIST 2008!

Sacral
02-10-2005, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by tatyroots@Feb 9 2005, 11:22 AM
Not being american, i would still like to give an input about the controversial republican agendas. I&#39;m an african woman living in the UK, and I always follow american politics, because then you can see how their internal choices will affect african countries.

Reversing Roe V Wade, would not only affect american women, it brings with it gagging orders to humanitarian organization that provide any form of birth control services to populations. :(

I found that sick, now someone tell me, would you rather encourage abstinence and prayers for a woman that can contract AIDS in africa, allowing children to be orphan, or would you encourage programs that educate and provide condoms mto women to save their lives?

709641


Exactly !!!!!!!!!
:smil3f72836ee752e:

You are so very right, according to the policies of the U.S. Government. The Executive Branch (The Bush Administration at the moment), and Legislative Branch (Congress), has oversight and congressional authority over USAID, the State Dep. including foreign service housed within our American embassies all over the world, and fundings for various non-profits that serve our purpose. Let&#39;s not forget the World Bank, IMF, the U.N....

The Bush Admin. has already implemented their abstinence stance based on Christian ideology by cutting funds for many international clinics in so-called, "Third World", countries that perform abortions by not only prohibiting abortions, but also cutting funds for condom distribution.

In some of these countries, prostitution is actually a way that women feed their families. Not even their own kids, I&#39;m talking about their mothers and fathers, siblings, cousins, etc......In fact, some families encourage young women in their family to prostitute out of financial desperation. These women are not doing crack or heroin. They are literally the breadwinners among 5-10-15.....family members sometimes.

So, I know in Ethiopia, for example, that because of the Bush Admin. cutting these funds and Congress (also Republican in Majority....let&#39;s not forget our system currently resembles the Former Soviet Union&#39;s one-party system regardless if it&#39;s through an election), there have been many cases of Ethiopian prostitutes who come to a U.S. Gov&#39;t (USAID, World Bank, etc.....) funded clinic for condoms only to find that because of, "Abstinence", Policies they can&#39;t get any. Anymore (until another Prez is elected or Congress switches to the other party).

So they still gotta make a living, right? So they prostitute and sell their bodies without protection for the sake of their families (That they didn&#39;t even create). Many of these women get both pregnant AND HIV/AIDS. They try to get a safe abortion from one of these clinics, but that&#39;s not available anymore. So there are cases of illegal, unsafe botched abortions where these women have died.

It&#39;s going on right now. Ethiopia is just one example......All African countries are getting this crap.

So as far as this ONE Republican policy is concerned......it&#39;s just sad.


- Sacral

sunsweet
02-10-2005, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 9 2005, 10:00 AM
And the list of "God&#39;s" sin should be in American government a nation founded on Biblical principles.

709607


Amerikkka was also founded on slavery, should we go ahead and bring that back? Sorry for the sarcasm, but I don&#39;t agree with bringing in &#39;The Founding Fathers Argument&#39; when they didn&#39;t want anything to do with my black a**.



Originally posted by lifeAgift@Feb 9 2005, 11:59 AM
Do your history folks. The Republican party was the first party that many
"Negro" Americans aligned themselves with. It was through the Republican party that we gained initial access and our political voice became known. Remeber W.E.B. Dubois.

Despite all the rhetoric concerning BUSH and his military decisions, remember we don&#39;t live in a vaccum . No one single individual is responsible for what happens in this country. Congress has more power than many realize.

709797


Historically, the Republican party wasn&#39;t EVEN what it is today. I&#39;m not a history buff or anything, but did the Dem party even exist back then? I feel like we&#39;re going back into the Whigs and mess like that (Whigs is what they were called right?) We&#39;re talking about Republicans a la 2005.

Rhetoric? Bush is prez and congress is repub and look what has happened to our country regarding those &#39;military decisions&#39; and overall our foreign policy...



Originally posted by momofthree@Feb 9 2005, 10:43 PM
Go Condi! --CONDI/FRIST 2008!

710756


I don&#39;t even wanna comment on that one...

Sike, yes I do! How the MESS are you gonna get PROMOTED when you were NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR during the biggest American tragedy (arguably), well at least in modern times, September 11th. You don&#39;t get promoted after the national security failed miserably. I mean I&#39;m not blaming Condi, but what type of an example is it to promote someone who represents a failed system?

That&#39;s my :2cents:

p.s. Truth: My Anti-Bush

awren
02-10-2005, 10:57 AM
Gosh-how did I miss this thread?? :dunno:


There is not one Republican ideology, just like there is not one Democrat or Black ideology. It seems to follow the continuum of liberal to ultra conservative. GW is a liberal Republican, almost a Democrat-which partly explains his mass appeal. In his first term, he created more debt, increased the size of gov&#39;t, and promoted laws that infringe on personal freedoms. In other words, he acted like a Democrat.

In his 2nd term-he&#39;s going back to his Republican roots by slashing social programs. If Johnny can&#39;t read, his family should teach him. Why should I pay for that? If Jane wants an abortion, let her pay for it. Why should public money go to support that? Jane&#39;s family is responsible for educating her about reproductive issues. Do you really want the gov&#39;t in your bed? I don&#39;t.

The religious right is the vocal minority of the Republican party. I don&#39;t believe they should be given any more say in what goes on in national politics than other vocal minorities within the Republican party-but then again, a lot of wealth and access to voters can be found within the church. Ideas don&#39;t win elections, money does. So because the religious right is a cash cow, neither party can afford to ignore them.

I remain a Republican because I believe in personal accountability and less gov&#39;t infringement upon personal freedoms. We shouldn&#39;t put all our eggs into one political basket. What have the Democrats done for us lately?

tlynn1974
02-10-2005, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by awren@Feb 10 2005, 07:57 AM
Gosh-how did I miss this thread?? :dunno:
There is not one Republican ideology, just like there is not one Democrat or Black ideology. It seems to follow the continuum of liberal to ultra conservative. GW is a liberal Republican, almost a Democrat-which partly explains his mass appeal. In his first term, he created more debt, increased the size of gov&#39;t, and promoted laws that infringe on personal freedoms. In other words, he acted like a Democrat.

I remain a Republican because I believe in personal accountability and less gov&#39;t infringement upon personal freedoms. We shouldn&#39;t put all our eggs into one political basket. What have the Democrats done for us lately?

711050


On one hand, you say there is no Republican ideology, then you say W acted like a Democrat and that you are a Republican because you believe in personal accountability and less government. There is a general Republican (and Democrat) ideology. Republicans believe in less government intervention (unless you talk about invading another country, deciding who should get married, what women should be allowed to do with their body - but I digress), charter schools/vouchers, anti-abortion, anti-affirmative action, less taxes, allowing big business to do whatever they want, and a general "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality.

Now, there are Republicans that don&#39;t agree with every aspect of that ideology, but the party is based on those principles.

Finally, I also strongly agree with the concept of personal accountability. But I also think the government needs to help those that can&#39;t help themselves or are trying to improve themselves after making mistakes in their past. I don&#39;t have a big problem paying extra taxes to help someone who made mistakes but are now trying to clean up their act. I do have a problem helping someone who choses to stay stuck in a bad position.

What have Democrats done for us? Besides take us for granted? Not much. What have Republicans done for us? Much, much less. I am waiting for a good Socialist candidate... B)

awren
02-10-2005, 11:53 AM
I don&#39;t have a big problem paying extra taxes to help someone who made mistakes but are now trying to clean up their act.

Great. RIF and Planned Parenthood take private donations, make them if that&#39;s your thing. But the gov&#39;t should not be using everybody&#39;s money to fix everyone&#39;s &#39;thing&#39;. That&#39;s what philanthropists, families, and the private sector is for.


Republicans believe in less government intervention (unless you talk about invading another country, deciding who should get married, what women should be allowed to do with their body - but I digress
Now you&#39;re generalizing. Most moderate Republicans don&#39;t care who you marry or what you do with your body-as long as I&#39;m not asked to fund it.


"pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality
Works for every other minority group that enters this country-why not African Americans? This waiting on someone to help us mentality will always leave us a day late and a dollar short. :doh

LifeGiver
02-10-2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by sacral@Feb 10 2005, 04:13 AM
Exactly !!!!!!!!!
:smil3f72836ee752e:

You are so very right, according to the policies of the U.S. Government. The Executive Branch (The Bush Administration at the moment), and Legislative Branch (Congress), has oversight and congressional authority over USAID, the State Dep. including foreign service housed within our American embassies all over the world, and fundings for various non-profits that serve our purpose. Let&#39;s not forget the World Bank, IMF, the U.N....

The Bush Admin. has already implemented their abstinence stance based on Christian ideology by cutting funds for many international clinics in so-called, "Third World", countries that perform abortions by not only prohibiting abortions, but also cutting funds for condom distribution.

In some of these countries, prostitution is actually a way that women feed their families. Not even their own kids, I&#39;m talking about their mothers and fathers, siblings, cousins, etc......In fact, some families encourage young women in their family to prostitute out of financial desperation. These women are not doing crack or heroin. They are literally the breadwinners among 5-10-15.....family members sometimes.

So, I know in Ethiopia, for example, that because of the Bush Admin. cutting these funds and Congress (also Republican in Majority....let&#39;s not forget our system currently resembles the Former Soviet Union&#39;s one-party system regardless if it&#39;s through an election), there have been many cases of Ethiopian prostitutes who come to a U.S. Gov&#39;t (USAID, World Bank, etc.....) funded clinic for condoms only to find that because of, "Abstinence", Policies they can&#39;t get any. Anymore (until another Prez is elected or Congress switches to the other party).

So they still gotta make a living, right? So they prostitute and sell their bodies without protection for the sake of their families (That they didn&#39;t even create). Many of these women get both pregnant AND HIV/AIDS. They try to get a safe abortion from one of these clinics, but that&#39;s not available anymore. So there are cases of illegal, unsafe botched abortions where these women have died.

It&#39;s going on right now. Ethiopia is just one example......All African countries are getting this crap.

So as far as this ONE Republican policy is concerned......it&#39;s just sad.
- Sacral

710802




Wow...

This is truly sad. That anyone could rationalize their desire to blame another/ others for their/ someone&#39;s decision to prostitute themselves and the reaping of the consequences of that choice.

Prostitution - the oldest profession.

Motherhood - the second oldest.

Are we saying these individuals don&#39;t have the ability to make wiser chioces or that this is it? :dunno:

I&#39;m really curious. It just sounds like an excuse. But that&#39;s me and my finite mind.

This world has many impoverished peoples. Are all of the women around the world doing this?

Where is the dignity?

You know you can get pregnant. You know you can&#39;t afford to raise a child. Can you on your own afford an abortion? You KNOW you may contract a deadly disease. And you still choose this life? Are you saying they have NO other choices?


How does one present this scenario and explain this SHAMEFUL reality when from the outside it looks like just a bunch of out of control, people hoin&#39; (for money) and dyin&#39; (just because) If this aim is survival or a better life , how is this going to help them achieve that?

Do we provide training and jobs/ economic power or just pass out some condoms?


This is not an angry post so please don&#39;t anyone approach me from a hostile perspective? Cause I&#39;m not the enemy. I want to know how we combat/ change a mindset that accepts this as being ok.

NLight1
02-10-2005, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by momofthree@Feb 9 2005, 09:43 PM
Go Condi! --CONDI/FRIST 2008!

710756

OH MY, is this a joke :shocker:

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 12:40 PM
This ish is too funnyhttp://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/1/happy28.gif. You know I just have to commend the Republicans for actually getting feeble minded American to buy into their bulls*** and to vote against their own interests. Who would&#39;ve thought it could&#39;ve been done. God Bless America! :doh

desanna
02-10-2005, 04:39 PM
I am an independent, I agree with some conservative issues, but I cant get with a man who says abortions are worng, but can ignore the thousands of babies murdered in Sudan, Liberia and The united states of America.

Sacral
02-10-2005, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by LifeGiver@Feb 10 2005, 08:59 AM
Wow...

This is truly sad. That anyone could rationalize their desire to blame another/ others for their/ someone&#39;s decision to prostitute themselves and the reaping of the consequences of that choice.

Prostitution - the oldest profession.

Motherhood - the second oldest.

Are we saying these individuals don&#39;t have the ability to make wiser chioces or that this is it? :dunno:

I&#39;m really curious. It just sounds like an excuse. But that&#39;s me and my finite mind.

This world has many impoverished peoples. Are all of the women around the world doing this?

Where is the dignity?

You know you can get pregnant. You know you can&#39;t afford to raise a child. Can you on your own afford an abortion? You KNOW you may contract a deadly disease. And you still choose this life? Are you saying they have NO other choices?
How does one present this scenario and explain this SHAMEFUL reality when from the outside it looks like just a bunch of out of control, people hoin&#39; (for money) and dyin&#39; (just because) If this aim is survival or a better life , how is this going to help them achieve that?

Do we provide training and jobs/ economic power or just pass out some condoms?
This is not an angry post so please don&#39;t anyone approach me from a hostile perspective? Cause I&#39;m not the enemy. I want to know how we combat/ change a mindset that accepts this as being ok.

711081



You&#39;re speaking from an Western (American?) perspective.

Prostitution, Abortion, Right to life, and Safe sex is an entirely different issue when you&#39;re talking about third world countries, (child) prostitution sex rackets, war and refugee camps, and access to the most basic health care. We as westerners cannot even fathom those circumstances. These women don&#39;t even have a right or choice to prenatal care. They get pregnant, give birth, and some die and some don&#39;t. Prostitution is a way to get money to simply eat. And many women don&#39;t "Choose" that lifestyle, especially if the patriarchal laws say that she has to do exactly what she&#39;s told to do by her father or brothers until she get&#39;s married. Many of these women are forced into prostitution by their own fathers......to help feed the family.

And getting gang-raped by soldiers is obvious. If these women do give birth safetly or are able to reach a camp or clinic, Infanticide is common.

Your talking about resources in those situations, period. I have many friends who deal with foreign relations and foreign policy, and have visited refugee camps and live in African countries working on these issues and policies. And I know first-hand from being in the health field from a government perspective, and have traveled to several countries myself. Many women over there just get the short end of the stick, period.


- Sacral

brep2
02-13-2005, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by lifeAgift@Feb 9 2005, 04:59 PM
Do your history folks. The Republican party was the first party that many
"Negro" Americans aligned themselves with. It was through the Republican party that we gained initial access and our political voice became known. Remeber W.E.B. Dubois.

Both the popular parties have done their share of damage but you are better off to look at the issues and vote according to your conscious, once informed.

Despite all the rhetoric concerning BUSH and his military decisions, remember we don&#39;t live in a vaccum . No one single individual is responsible for what happens in this country. Congress has more power than many realize.

Guess what ??? While African Americans debate over which party to align themselves with, both the Democratic and Republican party have found themselves new groups to pander to. That is Latinos and Asians.
We as AA&#39;s represent 13% of the population, yet where are our seats in the house, senate or congress?

Party affialiation garners $$$ and constituent support that independents usually don&#39;t have but choosing a party affiliation for the everyday voter is not required. You can register to vote without registering for a PArty.

:2cents: Don&#39;t allow others to be presumptive regarding your vote or to take you and/or your communities issues for granted.

709797


Very well said!!! :D

brep2
02-13-2005, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 9 2005, 07:21 PM
Do you believe in capital punishment? Most Republicans support it. And it&#39;s funny how it is usually the same person that says that life should be preserved. I guess we have gotten so close to God that we have taken on some of His responsibilites and have taken it upon ourselves to decide who should live, who should die, and when.

And how could you possibly say that foster care is different from abortion? What do you honestly think is going to happen to a lot of those children? Take off the rose colored glasses, please!

How can you say that everyone is free to believe what they want, but you want to force kids to say "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Christians should not have to compromise, but non-Christians should basically give up their beliefs?

709983

Foster care IS a totally different issue than abortion. Once again I have been through the foster care system, the whole child welfare thing! Please explain to me how Abortion and Foster Care are the same, please?

brep2
02-13-2005, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 10 2005, 01:40 PM
This ish is too funnyhttp://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/1/happy28.gif. You know I just have to commend the Republicans for actually getting feeble minded American to buy into their bulls*** and to vote against their own interests. Who would&#39;ve thought it could&#39;ve been done. God Bless America! :doh

711125

You know what! I have never attacked what you believe. I have not attacked the Democratic party, I just felt like I should not be shunned for being different. It&#39;s alright because I can see what you view about others. It&#39;s cool. I pray that you find peace in your life!! I vote for what benefits me and I am asking that you do the same. Peace :smil3f9cf915b71bf:

ScoobyGurl
02-13-2005, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 12 2005, 09:59 PM
You know what! I have never attacked what you believe. I have not attacked the Democratic party, I just felt like I should not be shunned for being different. It&#39;s alright because I can see what you view about others. It&#39;s cool. I pray that you find peace in your life!! I vote for what benefits me and I am asking that you do the same. Peace :smil3f9cf915b71bf:

714890


And I didn&#39;t attack you. You took my general statement personally. What can I say? I personally don&#39;t think the Republican party benefits poor or middle class Americans. I was just expressing my opinion, no? BTW, I don&#39;t really need your prayer but hey do what you like.

xsulent
02-13-2005, 03:53 AM
this thread is so damn exciting. i love seeing aware women that havent been blinded by all this "patriotic garbage." I get so tired of seeing sheep eat up all their propagandic lies.. but you girls are so inspiring. sigh, makes me want to raise my little socialist fist. You women make me so proud!!!

I feel like poking myself in the eye everytime I hear someone try to prove that this country was founded on Christian morals. Thats flipping offensive to me as a Christian!

Go Condaleeza?? Sigh, like Immortal Technique says, "She&#39;s nothing but a new age Sally Hemmings"

I heard a joke one time, somewhere.. some guy was like id never trust some broad whose name sounds like a mexican side dish. so true...

tlynn1974
02-14-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 12 2005, 10:50 PM
Foster care IS a totally different issue than abortion. Once again I have been through the foster care system, the whole child welfare thing! Please explain to me how Abortion and Foster Care are the same, please?

714873


They are not the same, but they are related. What do you think is going to happen to all these kids whose parent(s) did not want them? I saw a bumper sticker that said, "If you can&#39;t trust me with a choice, how can you trust me with a child?" You think that all of these women that did not want the child, for whatever reason - rape, career choices, medical reasons, or just irresponsibility - are going to all of sudden decide they want this child? A few may, but many won&#39;t - and who says the government has a right to make that decision for them!

And you never answered my question about your stance on capital punishment.

tlynn1974
02-14-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by awren@Feb 10 2005, 08:53 AM
Works for every other minority group that enters this country-why not African Americans? This waiting on someone to help us mentality will always leave us a day late and a dollar short. :doh

711076


And it works for AA. But you tell me another group that has been so marginalized? And not just in the US, but all over the world. I am NOT making excuses for anyone, I truly believe that EVERYONE can improve themselves. However, I think the government needs to help those who are trying to help themselves. The government helped enslave us, the government helped to institutionalize racism, the government still plays a large part in America&#39;s racism problem with its&#39; laws.

QueenLocks
02-14-2005, 01:24 PM
I&#39;m not touching this thread with a 10 ft. pole!

:bolt:

brep2
02-14-2005, 03:22 PM
tlynn1974,

To be honest I am very split on capital punishment. The whole judicial system is very corrupt and very disproportionate towards the poor and minorities.

Hajirah
02-16-2005, 05:17 PM
Everyone else has echoed most of my distaste and anger with Rep party, But I must ask you if we do not have black republicans how can we ensure our interest in what is only truly a two party system And if all of us are merely sitting on one side we will have them take advantage of us like the DEM party does. The get under my skin to (not like republicans) Yes they are for setting up more Programs. but not for the reasons we are lead to believe. They live off social disadvantaged minorities, setting up smoke screens and fake boards that like they are doing something with a system that has failed most Blacks miserably. Think about What job would they have if they don’t keep your Black a** poor? There is something in it for them to new budgets for their buddies at HUD, or their Buddies starting different programs that do little or nothing but to look like they are doing something to help the people

I personally am an independent. but just recently I was approached by the Green Party, which sounds more like my ideology. But I need to read more. Nadar made the most sense out of all the candidates I heard run…but just did not have a great backing

vixxen13
02-17-2005, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by sacral@Feb 10 2005, 02:02 PM
You&#39;re speaking from an Western (American?) perspective.

Prostitution, Abortion, Right to life, and Safe sex is an entirely different issue when you&#39;re talking about third world countries, (child) prostitution sex rackets, war and refugee camps, and access to the most basic health care. We as westerners cannot even fathom those circumstances.

Sacral, girl you took the words right outta my mouth. I was thinking what is she (Lifegiver) talking about. She is talking like those women live in the Western World. To me it seems like typical American projection. I&#39;ve found that Americans like to project our culture and "quality of life" onto other countries. Wake up people, the rest of the world is not like America.


Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 10 2005, 04:42 AM
On one hand, you say there is no Republican ideology, then you say W acted like a Democrat and that you are a Republican because you believe in personal accountability and less government. There is a general Republican (and Democrat) ideology.

Now, there are Republicans that don&#39;t agree with every aspect of that ideology, but the party is based on those principles.


What have Democrats done for us? Besides take us for granted? Not much. What have Republicans done for us? Much, much less. I am waiting for a good Socialist candidate... B)

711074


ITA. Tell it sister. Awren&#39;s post just made no sense. She says there is no ideology and then proceeds to say shes a Repub because of *insert ideology*. How can someone act like a Democrat if there isnt an ideology or type? :dunno:

Gloria
02-17-2005, 05:35 PM
For the longest time I went along with the notion that any minorities that call themselves "republican" must be crazy.

I won&#39;t call myself a republican, but I will say that nowadays I agree with republicans more often than I agree with democrats. The democratic party is becoming more and more secularized and in some cases outrageous.

Now, just because I agree with many of the ideas associated with the republican party does not mean that I agree with all republicans. I just can&#39;t go along with things like abortion, same-sex marriage, no social security reform, non-support of the military, and constant complaining about the administration. Ughhh.

cmarie75
02-19-2005, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by lifeAgift@Feb 9 2005, 11:59 AM
Do your history folks. The Republican party was the first party that many
"Negro" Americans aligned themselves with. It was through the Republican party that we gained initial access and our political voice became known. Remeber W.E.B. Dubois.

Both the popular parties have done their share of damage but you are better off to look at the issues and vote according to your conscious, once informed.

Despite all the rhetoric concerning BUSH and his military decisions, remember we don&#39;t live in a vaccum . No one single individual is responsible for what happens in this country. Congress has more power than many realize.

Guess what ??? While African Americans debate over which party to align themselves with, both the Democratic and Republican party have found themselves new groups to pander to. That is Latinos and Asians.
We as AA&#39;s represent 13% of the population, yet where are our seats in the house, senate or congress?

Party affialiation garners $$$ and constituent support that independents usually don&#39;t have but choosing a party affiliation for the everyday voter is not required. You can register to vote without registering for a PArty.

:2cents: Don&#39;t allow others to be presumptive regarding your vote or to take you and/or your communities issues for granted.

709797


Well said.

cmarie75
02-19-2005, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 12 2005, 09:59 PM
You know what! I have never attacked what you believe. I have not attacked the Democratic party, I just felt like I should not be shunned for being different. It&#39;s alright because I can see what you view about others. It&#39;s cool. I pray that you find peace in your life!! I vote for what benefits me and I am asking that you do the same. Peace :smil3f9cf915b71bf:

714890

Continue to pray sister. Pray for our leaders, our children and our families. God is in control and Bush is in office because He allowed him to be re-elected. In fact, many of us (Black Christians) voted for him. Continue to represent for God. The right way is almost never the most popular.

Hajirah
02-19-2005, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Continue to pray sister. Pray for our leaders, our children and our families. God is in control and Bush is in office because He allowed him to be re-elected. In fact, many of us (Black Christians) voted for him. Continue to represent for God. The right way is almost never the most popular. ( :doh )

And this is the part that I do not get. What would make you thing that democrats(which I am not one) have no morality.God also allowed 911 but it doesn&#39;t make it right. I truly feel that all those people that were foolish enough to vote for Bush.. will have to lie in the mess that they created. How does he represent God? He allows his daughter to get publicly drunk..He himself was a drunk..He doesn&#39;t want to give to the poor..it is the oposite of what he says. Is that all it takes is to say I read the bible..and people forget to have all common sense. He realized his base and he played them like a game of checkers. i am amazed how he lives the oposite of the values that you consider Christain

Question: Who would Jesus bomb?

Sacral
02-19-2005, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by cmarie75@Feb 18 2005, 11:03 PM
.... God is in control and Bush is in office because He allowed him to be re-elected. In fact, many of us (Black Christians) voted for him. Continue to represent for God. The right way is almost never the most popular.

724538



:shocker: :icon_headshake:

You can&#39;t be serious.

Our former President and Vice President Daddy Bush is a straight murderer. He has entirely too much blood on his hands. Millions of women, children, men, and families in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, by installing dictators in many third world countries so that you can have gas in your car, eat very good chocolate, wear a blingin&#39; diamond ring, and have other resources that reflect the nice standard of living we enjoy (if we have money) here in America.

In the U.S. - the, "War on Drugs", was nicely orchestrated by him as head and former head of the CIA (Read: Iran-Contra). He&#39;s one of the main reasons why so many drugs crossed the U.S. borders the 70&#39;s, 80&#39;s and even the 90&#39;s

And his son, our current President, really was a drug addict and alcoholic. He&#39;s a dry drunk now. Laura Bush herself was indicted for involuntary manslaughter in high school for drunk driving. Yes, she killed a person, although by, "accident".

Our current U.S. policies are a continuation of the Bush and Reagan years. Especially foreign policy, which is why you won&#39;t have any social security unless another President like Clinton comes back to clean it up, like he did after he beat Bush&#39;s daddy in 1991.

I&#39;m being brief and providing only snippets of info. A volume of books can be written about all of this and more.

I work directly with Congress, and it&#39;s really sad when I read or hear statements like this. I wish voters would become more informed about the U.S. government and our policies instead of only paying attention during election time and then listening to campaign messages.

Politicians will say whatever they need to say to get elected and stay in office, period. That is God&#39;s (Allah&#39;s, G-d&#39;s, Mother/Father Creator&#39;s, etc.....) truth. I&#39;m a witness <_< I&#39;ve been in federal politics for over 15 years now. If they know that their voters want to hear the Christian message, they&#39;ll say it. Believe that.

There is no God in many of the U.S. policies that are implemented, especially foreign policy. And if I got into the minutia of the recent President&#39;s budget, "Ask", that he sent to Congress, it&#39;ll make your stomach turn. Dubya Bush just sent over 150 suggested budget cuts....Domestic Cuts....... to his fellow Republicans to get him more money for this Iraq crap that his daddy started by installing Saddam Hussein in office in the first place, during the Reagan/Bush years and as head of the CIA.

Bush said himself that he was actually chosen by God to rule. Such B.S. -whether it&#39;s Christian or any other faith. There&#39;s no God in many of the policies that the U.S. government creates and implements. Quite the opposite.

- Sacral

cmarie75
02-19-2005, 07:12 PM
This is exactly why I love democracy. I like being able to disagree or agree with government policies and be vocal about it without facing jail time. Everyone has a right to speak and to be heard. You can agree or disagree with the way the last election went, however, in the end a choice was made (for those of us who voted) and Bush is President. I am a registered democrat who really couldn&#39;t get with the moral agenda during this election. Truth be told, that is what I looked at.

As a Christian, I can only accept that God is in control of everything. I also will never say that God doesn&#39;t belong in our government. Christianity isn&#39;t something that I can just discard to please the masses when it is convenient. I will continue to pray for our leaders whether or not I agree with their policies.

animeg
02-19-2005, 10:06 PM
I don&#39;t believe that one can just go blah blah blah about God, and then appoint men who have overlooked or supported torture(Negropointe, Gonzales, I&#39;m looking at you!) to high positions. Adultery has always been given higher billing in the bible as a sin than homosexuality, but you never see those people talk about that.

Not to mention, if we&#39;re so personally responsible, why can&#39;t Christianity stand on its own? If we really love God, we don&#39;t need the gov&#39;t to enact laws to make people act the way some religious guy says. Also, personal responsibilty is a crock. Big business that has bad practices gets bailed out all the time. But god forbid babies get fed.

Also, blacks have been working on our own to succeed for hundreds of years. However, the systems that create problems for us can&#39;t be waved away with individual effort.

Hajirah
02-20-2005, 12:28 PM
:smil3f72836ee752e: Sacral..

If morality was so important Bush should be taken on things like.. feeding and housing the homeless.Making peace with other countries and building bridges to keep us safe instead of pissing everyone off with his arrogance. Yep and your right homesexuals..Are not even in the TOP TEN ..(as they say) So why not let God deal with that..since none of us are fit to. I say why not crack down on the top Ten in the commandments and deliver Gods will. Lets punish those who commit fornication(Its rank in the top ten). Take away some sort of civil rights or lets throw them in jail..something! If your a Christain supporting this kind of morality b*ll you will be right behind me..to break down doors in peoples homes. You will be surprise in who you will find there breaking one of the top ten commandments. Then lets..arrest all the adulters...yeah lets get them next. Those that worship or pray to anything other then God..(and I do not mean Jesus) this was pre Jesus before his time so he may count as another God. We could go on....

I am not against morality I find and wish for more of it but why should one group pick and chose what is right for everyone.

I assure you what I consider to be Godly will not be what you will consider to be Godly.

NLight1
02-20-2005, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Hajirah@Feb 20 2005, 07:28 AM
:smil3f72836ee752e: Sacral..

If morality was so important Bush should be taken on things like.. feeding and housing the homeless.Making peace with other countries and building bridges to keep us safe instead of pissing everyone off with his arrogance. I am not against morality I find and wish for more of it but why should one group pick and chose what is right for everyone.

725976

Wow! Excellent post sis :Cool_049:

lokkin2173
02-21-2005, 03:56 AM
I don&#39;t neccesarily think being a republican is wrong. I think both parties have there problems that&#39;s why I&#39;m an independent. I think one major problem is that ppl think Black republican and Black conservative are one in the same when they don&#39;t have to be. Personally I don&#39;t have a problem with black republican, I do however have major issues with black conservatives since being a conservation by definition means to conserve the status quo ( which historically has been the the detriment of black folk) so I this being the case I definitely have a serious problem with Black conservatives and consider them the enemy .

growunatty
02-21-2005, 04:42 AM
oh it&#39;s not wrong. just seems a lil&#39; silly.
black people who go hard for the democrats are just as silly to me.
if it makes you happy i forget the chicks name.

starchild
02-23-2005, 06:20 PM
sacral and harijah, you guys are on point. I still can&#39;t believe that garbage that God put Bush into office, So I guess he put Sadam Hussein and Arafat and Clinton for that matter. This garbage about christian values make me sick when there are people right here that need help. Our healthcare system is failing and people don&#39;t have the resources that they need and pay taxes to fund a war and conflicts that will help the so-called politicians and corporation. Yep, that is christian all-right. My founding fathers/mothers were Harriet Tubman, Phyllis Wheatley and Benjamin Banneker. I could give a rat&#39;s tail about Washington em cause they were immoral people for enslaving and killing natives of this land.

Nevertheless, if someone wants to be republican then that is their choice as my bumper stick says, "Don&#39;t blame me, I voted for John Kerry" says it all.

:puke2: :puke2: for Rice/Frist 08. Frist has not done anything for the state of Tennessee except his fine arts building which carries his name. His brother is the ceo of our tri-star hospitals, they are just money hungry bandits.

innervisions
02-23-2005, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by tlynn1974@Feb 10 2005, 06:42 AM
On one hand, you say there is no Republican ideology, then you say W acted like a Democrat and that you are a Republican because you believe in personal accountability and less government. There is a general Republican (and Democrat) ideology. Republicans believe in less government intervention (unless you talk about invading another country, deciding who should get married, what women should be allowed to do with their body - but I digress), charter schools/vouchers, anti-abortion, anti-affirmative action, less taxes, allowing big business to do whatever they want, and a general "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality.

What have Democrats done for us? Besides take us for granted? Not much. What have Republicans done for us? Much, much less. I am waiting for a good Socialist candidate... B)

711074

ITA!!! Preach!!!

innervisions
02-23-2005, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Gloria@Feb 17 2005, 12:35 PM
Now, just because I agree with many of the ideas associated with the republican party does not mean that I agree with all republicans. I just can&#39;t go along with things like abortion, same-sex marriage, no social security reform, non-support of the military, and constant complaining about the administration. Ughhh.

722294

Honestly, I think its sad that Bush and his cronies were allowed to miseducate the American public on gay marriage, and even sadder that people didn&#39;t take the time to educate themselves.

Where oh where did Kerry ever say he was for gay marriage? Where? He simply said he was against a constitutional amendment to stop it. He never said that he thought it should happen.

And miseducated folks fell right into Bush&#39;s trap.

innervisions
02-23-2005, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by lokkin2173@Feb 20 2005, 10:56 PM
Personally I don&#39;t have a problem with black republican, I do however have major issues with black conservatives since being a conservation by definition means to conserve the status quo ( which historically has been the the detriment of black folk) so I this being the case I definitely have a serious problem with Black conservatives and consider them the enemy .

726958

Excellent point.

innervisions
02-23-2005, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Hajirah@Feb 19 2005, 08:16 AM
And this is the part that I do not get. What would make you thing that democrats(which I am not one) have no morality.God also allowed 911 but it doesn&#39;t make it right. I truly feel that all those people that were foolish enough to vote for Bush.. will have to lie in the mess that they created. How does he represent God? He allows his daughter to get publicly drunk..He himself was a drunk..He doesn&#39;t want to give to the poor..it is the oposite of what he says. Is that all it takes is to say I read the bible..and people forget to have all common sense. He realized his base and he played them like a game of checkers. i am amazed how he lives the oposite of the values that you consider Christain

Question: Who would Jesus bomb?

724974

Thank you. I try to be open-minded, but Christians who voted for Bush ought to just be ashamed of themselves! Here&#39;s a man who&#39;s a war-monger and a liar and you voted for him? Have you lost your mind or have you lost Jesus? Cause you definitely don&#39;t have both.

You are exactly correct. Bush has lived a life doing whatever he pleases and then he says, "I&#39;m Christian," and people are dumb enough to believe him? Well, guess what, I&#39;m Joan of Arc! Some Christians really need to read up about what it means to be a Christian, because if they did, they&#39;d see that Bush is the antithesis of it. Christians are supposed to be known by their fruits. Look at Bush&#39;s fruits. War, poverty, job loss, no health-care, lies, deceit, treachery. Where&#39;s Christ in that?

innervisions
02-23-2005, 06:36 PM
Sacral, thanks for your last post. It was on point! I didn&#39;t know that Laura Bush was a drunkard too!

Its really sad when people fall for other folks lies and deceit.

innervisions
02-23-2005, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by animeg@Feb 19 2005, 05:06 PM
Also, blacks have been working on our own to succeed for hundreds of years. However, the systems that create problems for us can&#39;t be waved away with individual effort.

725396

Thank you! And that&#39;s my main problem with Black Republicans. They subscribe to their party&#39;s "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" bs, and that has never worked for black folks. For a long time, we didn&#39;t have no damn boots, let alone some bootstraps. Black people have not gotten to where we are by working alone and not thinking about each other. If we had subscribed to that belief, we&#39;d be dead by now.

If we had subscribed to that belief, thousands of slave children would&#39;ve died when their parents were sold away and no one was left to take care of them. If we had subcribed that to that belief, there would&#39;ve been no Underground Railroad because after one slave got free, they would&#39;ve never returned for the others. If we had subcribed to that belief the Montgomery Bus Boycott wouldn&#39;t have worked because everyone would&#39;ve only been thinking about how tired their feet were, not the bigger picture.

Black folks need to get off of that foolishness. Maybe that works for white folks, but it won&#39;t work for us.

innervisions
02-23-2005, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 10 2005, 07:40 AM
This ish is too funnyhttp://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/1/happy28.gif. You know I just have to commend the Republicans for actually getting feeble minded American to buy into their bulls*** and to vote against their own interests. Who would&#39;ve thought it could&#39;ve been done. God Bless America! :doh

711125

You know, after I did finish being pissed about the election, I did have to laugh and say, "Only in America would people be DUMB enough to vote for a man who&#39;s a proven liar! Especially when they have every resource to find out more about him. Only in America."

All c-in
03-01-2005, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 9 2005, 10:00 AM

...And the list of "God&#39;s" sin should be in American government a nation founded on Biblical principles. In Muslim countries their government is based from the Koran. So we as American should be different from all other human societies? I believe everyone is free to believe what they want religiously, but Christians should not have to compromise and be quiet just because our belief system is not popular.

709607

Christains ARE popular the reason why other ppl. look down on the christians here is because. They don&#39;t follow their own teachings, most don&#39;t take any of this stuff seriously and feel that if they do something wrong then GOD will forgive them. This country considers other countries that are governed from the Koran as barbaric b/c they&#39;re strict. In my opinion they should be. You have some christains that feel their religion is the ultimate truth, then they try to force it down ppls throats. Which is wrong! But that&#39;s besides the point.

All c-in
03-01-2005, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Hajirah@Feb 19 2005, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Continue to pray sister. Pray for our leaders, our children and our families. God is in control and Bush is in office because He allowed him to be re-elected. In fact, many of us (Black Christians) voted for him. Continue to represent for God. The right way is almost never the most popular. ( :doh )

And this is the part that I do not get. What would make you thing that democrats(which I am not one) have no morality.God also allowed 911 but it doesn&#39;t make it right. I truly feel that all those people that were foolish enough to vote for Bush.. will have to lie in the mess that they created. How does he represent God? He allows his daughter to get publicly drunk..He himself was a drunk..He doesn&#39;t want to give to the poor..it is the oposite of what he says. Is that all it takes is to say I read the bible..and people forget to have all common sense. He realized his base and he played them like a game of checkers. i am amazed how he lives the oposite of the values that you consider Christain

Question: Who would Jesus bomb?

724974
I couldn&#39;t have said it better myself.
:smil3f72836ee752e: :smil3f72836ee752e: :smil3f72836ee752e: :smil3f72836ee752e: :smil3f72836ee752e: :dunno: They fell for it(Bush voters). Bush played the religion card and they bought it hook, line and sinker :doh .

Blackstar
03-01-2005, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Hajirah@Feb 19 2005, 03:16 PM
Quote:


And this is the part that I do not get. What would make you thing that democrats(which I am not one) have no morality.God also allowed 911 but it doesn&#39;t make it right. I truly feel that all those people that were foolish enough to vote for Bush.. will have to lie in the mess that they created. How does he represent God? He allows his daughter to get publicly drunk..He himself was a drunk..He doesn&#39;t want to give to the poor..it is the oposite of what he says. Is that all it takes is to say I read the bible..and people forget to have all common sense. He realized his base and he played them like a game of checkers. i am amazed how he lives the oposite of the values that you consider Christain

Question: Who would Jesus bomb?

724974

:smil3f72836ee752e:
someone needs to ask bush that question since he says he is on such close terms with God. thanks for putting that point forward.

Blackstar
03-01-2005, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by brep2@Feb 9 2005, 04:00 PM
<_< No, reversing Roe V. Wade would not stop abortions, but it could stop abortion from being a right. I do not believe women have the right to be killers. I think you are exactly right. Where are the children going to go? It is time that women take responsibilty for their actions and stop blaming other people for their unsound decisions. I do relaize there are extreme traumatic situations but that does not constitute killing a child that had nothing to do with what happened. Adoption is always an option. No one is thinking about the innocent children that are dying. Foster care is a totally separate issue from abortion. I have been in foster care myself and it is a horribly run system.

And the list of "God&#39;s" sin should be in American government a nation founded on Biblical principles. In Muslim countries their government is based from the Koran. So we as American should be different from all other human societies? I believe everyone is free to believe what they want religiously, but Christians should not have to compromise and be quiet just because our belief system is not popular.

709607

have you ever seen the british film &#39;vera drake?&#39; reversing roe v wade would be the worst thing to ever happen to women. it&#39;s only selfrighteous people who want to punish women for making mistakes. abortion is a woman&#39;s personal choice and her right. if you don&#39;t like it, don&#39;t do it, but don&#39;t play &#39;guardian angel&#39; for other women who deserve the right to a medically approved abortion instead of going to a back street doctor. leave the moralising and judging to God.

in northern nigeria women are being stoned to death in the name of religion. religion is a beautiful thing for your private life, but it should be seperate from the state. if the world was run according to the old testament we too would be stoning women left, right and centre. and reversing the abortion law amounts to the same thing.

but as christ says,&#39;let he who has never sinned cast the first stone.&#39;

lena_2202
03-02-2005, 07:32 PM
I am a proud republican too and I dont see how there should be a problem with that. The democratic party have been maniputlating blacks and other so called minority groups for years and it seems that every black person is just eating out of their hands. If black people are going to make decisions at least we need to educate ourselves on the issues and not our personal vedettas. otherwise we will be bambozzeled into believing and supporting everything democrat even if it hurts us in the future. Anyway in GA most the democrats here are not informed on the real issues and ares only democrats because the mother and their mothers mother and her mothers Uncles great great great, was a democrat.



Aside from this Its very easy to manipulate our race to beleive whatever it is they want us to. simply because we tend to think as a mass rather than personally for ourselves. The reason for a whites person to be democrat or republican tend to be very different than the reasoning for blacks. This is not ALL black people but the majority of blacks dont keep themselves educated on current on whats happening in both parties to even make educated decisions on the outcomes of the political decisions


If you are Either its important to know where either party stands because only then are you making an honest decision. Ive heard excuses like "I just dont like that man" and so on
If that isnt the Stupidest reasoning I dont know what is. then there is "he seems more honest" So basically if your kid was out on the playground and an "honest looking person" approached them with candy or some such. Its ok that they go with that person. People we&#39;ve got to educate ourselves for a better future wether we agree with each other or not it is crucial that atleast we know what we&#39;re talking about when we say we are democrat or republican.

mothergoose
06-19-2005, 10:19 PM
Interesting.