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itaylor
02-09-2005, 05:15 PM
I am an honors college student at a reputable university, i have been honors classes my whole life, and an AP student high school. I have noticed that i seem to be the only black person in any of these honors classes. I'm not trying to sound conceited, its just my reality. The issue is, i find myself trying to hide being smart when i meet guys because they become very intimidated. In addition, i have yet to meet a brother who can stimulate me intellectually. Even worse, sometimes guys feel like i am threatening them with my intellect and feel like they are in a constant competition with me. Is this an issue for anyone else? How do i combat this?

charli
02-09-2005, 05:28 PM
It's you.

No, really.

Probably because you are still in college, you are looking at your education as though it is the bomb diggity (because you mentioned you are an honors student and that's hardly relevant to finding a man) and probably wear it on your sleeve. therefore, you probably come across differently to people because of that. I mean I find these threads funny when a woman can't find a man, she automatically assume it's because black men are intimidated by her (education, career, salary, material posessions, knowledge). She never thinks maybe, they just don't like her personality, maybe she's a bit stuck on herself, maybe they aren't attracted. They think that their resume entitles them to a great catch.

Well, you're on the same level as every other woman, no special consideration for your honors status in school.

I know people hate to hear that.

No special consideration for your educational status. Because men have different trade offs they are willing to make.

Oh the screams and outrage from the black women who get upset that they are on the same level as those with lesser accomplishments. Well, I didn't know of many black men who would say "I want a woman of high academic achievement so we can have intellectually stimulating conversations." the fun, round the way, easy going laid back girl with a B or C average probably is more appealing, not because he's intimidated by academic achievement, but because he doesn't want to hear about it every dang minute.

Matter of fact, thinking back on college and who got married to whom, I can say that grades or academic achievement didn't factor in at all. Maybe that's why a lot of girls date their professors, because they are the ones that want to sit around and talk about intellectually stimulating things. Hmmm.... food for thought

(And before someone accuses me of being a *hater*, I graduated with honors too- so I ain't hating!)

I'm tired of black men made out to be intimidated. Some are, most aren't but I find that many women fall back on that cop out instead of taking an HONEST look at why they haven't found someone.

And I just have to add-- you don't have to *hide* being smart, unless you are condescending about being smart to the point that you turn people off.

lifeAgift
02-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Go to a summer enrichment program with like minded individuals.

IE: Young authors camps. MIT , Vandy Medical Research program. NASA etc... What you will find is that truely analytical men of traditional college age probably will be more interested in their academics than in YOU. The really "nerdy" ones don't even get interested in realtionshsips until much later say 28-35. They are usually goal oriented and have a lot of other things they want to get done before they start skirt chasing or searching for a mate.

One would think you would be to busy too. :dunno:

Put your intellect to use, go get published, apply to grad school;, discover the cure for cancer. BECOME A TEACHER! What ever you do don't hide your smarts and don't go creating an unwarrented crisis. The smart male hotties are out there, they just didn't go to college to find YOU. They went to college to find themselves and what they want to do in life.

BE Patient. :afro:

:2cents: Go study other cultures and a few different languages just in case you want to open yourself up to dating men from other races/cultures or maybe oneday you'll be called upon to be the next C.Rice, oh yeh she's single too!!!! ;)

roxygirl
02-09-2005, 05:55 PM
There's no need to hide your education, nor is there a need to throw it in anyone's face (not saying that you are).

Just be proud of who you are and you'll find the right type of man for you.

Dolliesdaughter
02-09-2005, 05:57 PM
If you are hiding your education and trying to "dumb" down, than that is fake and most real men, educated or not, do not want a fake woman.

tran68
02-09-2005, 06:36 PM
They think that their resume entitles them to a great catch.


I work with several educated BM who were at the top of their class and Wharton MBAs, etc.... they are now kicking major butt in the corporate world, excellent at their craft. :) I hear them say the same things the OP mentioned....for some reason these talented, educated brothers and sisters aren't running into each other??? :dunno:

If you can't find a brotha of this caliber then branch out to other races, it's not a crime..... ;)

tjolims
02-09-2005, 06:39 PM
Just a few things that stood out to me.

a) First of all, be yourself. The men who are threatened by your intellect are the ones you don't need to be wasting time with anyway. Quit trying to hide being smart. Maybe you'll have a harder time finding a man if you seem too smart for him, but *nobody* likes a fake. So quit playing yourself down...with the method you're using now, you'll wind up with a man, but he probably won't be the right one for you.

b ) Whenever I see topics like this(because this seems to come up a lot), I can't help but think that some of us are looking in the wrong places for men. Think about it...there are a googob of educated and/or brilliant black women on this site. Many of them have multiple degrees, some are published authors, research scientists, doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs, you name it. And strangely enough--I'd guess that about 80% of those women are married to, or in relationships with men who don't have a problem with their intellect. Are they just insanely lucky? Or are they okay with the fact that every man out there isn't for them, and not wasting energy trying to attract the obvious fools?

Just something to think about.

moejoe4
02-09-2005, 06:59 PM
Hmmmm...what school do you attend where there are no blacks in honor courses?

I'm not sure what the problem is and why you're having the issues with men that you are, but never blame them. You(we) always need to look in the mirror first and see what have we done, how are we coming across. Maybe you are throwing your education in their faces and dont realize it. But in time you will find someone who can appreciate you for all that you are. Stay prayed up and optimistic!

itaylor
02-09-2005, 10:30 PM
Okay, First off i would like to state that this is exactly the reason why i was complaining about trying to show intellect. People get threatened.... its not as if i am purposely trying to talk over anyone's head or make a point of showing my intellect, its just a part of who i am. I am in NO way desperate for a date, and plenty of guys are interested, I'M just not satisfied with THEM. I mean, i have yet to meet just ONE brother who can challenge me intellectually.


Originally posted by charli@Feb 9 2005, 11:28 AM
It's you.

No, really.

Probably because you are still in college, you are looking at your education as though it is the bomb diggity (because you mentioned you are an honors student and that's hardly relevant to finding a man) and probably wear it on your sleeve. therefore, you probably come across differently to people because of that. I mean I find these threads funny when a woman can't find a man, she automatically assume it's because black men are intimidated by her (education, career, salary, material posessions, knowledge). She never thinks maybe, they just don't like her personality, maybe she's a bit stuck on herself, maybe they aren't attracted. They think that their resume entitles them to a great catch.

Well, you're on the same level as every other woman, no special consideration for your honors status in school.

I know people hate to hear that.

No special consideration for your educational status. Because men have different trade offs they are willing to make.

Oh the screams and outrage from the black women who get upset that they are on the same level as those with lesser accomplishments. Well, I didn't know of many black men who would say "I want a woman of high academic achievement so we can have intellectually stimulating conversations." the fun, round the way, easy going laid back girl with a B or C average probably is more appealing, not because he's intimidated by academic achievement, but because he doesn't want to hear about it every dang minute.

Matter of fact, thinking back on college and who got married to whom, I can say that grades or academic achievement didn't factor in at all. Maybe that's why a lot of girls date their professors, because they are the ones that want to sit around and talk about intellectually stimulating things. Hmmm.... food for thought

(And before someone accuses me of being a *hater*, I graduated with honors too- so I ain't hating!)

I'm tired of black men made out to be intimidated. Some are, most aren't but I find that many women fall back on that cop out instead of taking an HONEST look at why they haven't found someone.

And I just have to add-- you don't have to *hide* being smart, unless you are condescending about being smart to the point that you turn people off.

709836

charli
02-09-2005, 10:45 PM
nobody is threatened. But it IS common for women who are in college, or freshly out of college to overstate the importance of that education until they get a dose of the real world. You wouldn't see that yet.

But NONE, and I mean, NONE of that has anything to do with finding a man who can stimulate you. It's like implying that an honor student is an automatic intellectual and that people who are not in college or in the same classes "can't hang."

And because you came in a thread rattling off those credentials you gave the impression that you are the same way with men and maybe THAT'S why it's a turnoff.

Other people have things that define them as well. And those things are valuable to varying degrees to different people. If a brother comes up and is like I hit the gym 3 times a week, I make $250,000 a year, I drive a lincoln navigator and I have a $600,000 3000 square foot home, a lot of women would be like--- AND?

Let me make this clear to you. I have read one post from you. I am NOT threatened, by WHAT? I mentioned also that I was an honor student in college myself (graduated in the top of my class thank you very much) but that doesn't make me who I am. But it seems *to me* that you automatically see people as threatened when they don't think these credentials are as big of an deal as you make them out to be.

Honestly, I don't think that many men are threatened at all. I just think that you THINK they are.

And I see that all the time.

Just pointing it out. You can take it or leave it. But the fact that any time someone doesn't rub your shoulder about things, that you take that to mean they are threatened says a hell of a lot.

Sunchild
02-09-2005, 10:51 PM
Funny I am working on my 2nd degree, applying for a 3rd and I had no problems finding a man. :dunno:

;)

wildandkinky
02-09-2005, 11:02 PM
ITA with Tjolims.
While there are men who are scared by intellect, I think that is not the main issue causing educated woman to have difficulty finding the man of their dreams. I think most educated men do like an intelligent woman, but education is not as high a priority as it is for women. Most men are open to someone who has a bit less education than they do, but that doesn't mean they prefer dumb women.

Most women want a man with at least as much education as themselves and a lot of women are not willing to consider a man who has achieved less than them. Besides that there may be a long list of other criteria. I think educated women have trouble finding there ideal mate not because they are intimidating but because they are picky.

natitwists
02-09-2005, 11:04 PM
itaylor- I think I know where you're coming from. At least to a degree. It was really an eye opener to me the number of black women in my classes versus black men. Both in undergrad and grad school. I remember having a class discussion about that fact. But my friend pointed out to me that it could be the major that I had. (I considered that but in undergrad, even the basic classes that everyone had to take, there was still a marked difference) I just always wondered why there were more sisters in school with me than brothers. I have as of yet to meet a brother who was intimidated though, or if he was I didn't know it. But seriously I can still count on my hand the number of black guys in my classes on one hand for my entire college career. Go figure. It used to bother me because I was jealous that my white and other race female friends could pick people to date and relate to who shared their same race but I couldn't. But believe me I got over it and started noticing men in other places ( i guess my feelings on the matter would have been a moot point anyway seeing as how I was in a relationship) But anyway I just wanted to offer you some support chica, I kinda understand where you are coming from. :)

Oh yea and dumbing yourself down to get a man or hold his interest is NEVER a good idea. Nobody likes a fake. I'm sure you have a good personality and endearing qualities and there are many people who'd love to get to know the real you. Keep your head up!

tenachie
02-09-2005, 11:14 PM
itaylor,

you're not the only educated black woman on this board. some of those who have passed your stage and are in the working world are giving you advice which you are refusing to take. What exactly is it that you want to hear?

Being smart is not a crime. If that's who you are, be yourself and stop trying to "dumb" yourself, that is condescending. If you have no problems getting dates, and plenty of men are interested then why are you complaining? What exactly is the intellectual challenge that you are looking for that these guys who are interested in you can't provide (discussions about the latest tome you're reading)? I know there's at least one smart black guy in your school who's probably single. He could also be ugly but you don't care about that, right?

relax and take care of school. you'll mature. As a rule anyway, one does better if they are not fixated on finding a specific kind of man and just allow God/nature to bring their perfect match to them.

itaylor
02-09-2005, 11:28 PM
Okay, maybe i phrased my questions wrong. i was trying to see if other people knew where i was coming from. I realize that an education is not a qualification to recieve love, but i was wondering if this is a widespread issue.

I mean, for my entire life i have been the only black person in any of my honors classes, occasionally there was another woman, but never any men. Its easier to find black women to have stimulating intellectual conversation with (hence this website) but i feel it is somewhat lacking on the part of the males. I have found many black men who can stimulate me in other ways.....believe me.

I think natitwists understands what i am trying to say. Even if there is no romantic interest, i mean, i am the ONLY black person in ANY of the honors classes now.

I also keep getting mixed messages here, on one hand people are saying not to dumb yourself down for anyone, on the other, people are saying that i'm putting too much emphasis on intellect. I mean, should i just walk into a room and talk over everyone's head for the sake of "keeping it real"? Secondly, even if i chose to flaunt my intellect, is it any different than someone flaunting the physical aspects of themselves? Is it better to flaunt a big booty than to flaunt a big brain?

itaylor
02-09-2005, 11:35 PM
Also i wanted to add that i recently read an article which was addressing this very issue, among women in general. Women with a masters have a lower marriage rate than those with just a high school diploma, across the board. So its not even completely a racial issue, many women have to decide between having a family and having kids. I was wondering for some of the women who are older, if this has been an issue for them.

charli
02-09-2005, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 9 2005, 03:28 PM
Its easier to find black women to have stimulating intellectual conversation with (hence this website) but i feel it is somewhat lacking on the part of the males. ...I am the ONLY black person in ANY of the honors classes now.

If you go to a predominantly white university then you will be limited by a lack of black men-- period. It's not about being in certain classes or anything. Maybe I'm tainted because Iw ent to both a HBCU and a more diverse school and never found it to be such a dire lack of smart black men.

But also, men have different interests. I have some male friends from college who are off the hook in terms of academic achievement. When we talk, you know what we might talk about? the most recept episode of the Apprentice, or the new John Legend CD or why I'm pissed that I can't find an ipod shuffle at any retail store in my area.

people just have diverse interests and don't always like to discuss certain topics or be intellectually stimulated all the time. Even eavesdropping on two very smart guys talking, what are they talking about, last night's game.


people are saying that i'm putting too much emphasis on intellect. I mean, should i just walk into a room and talk over everyone's head for the sake of "keeping it real"? Secondly, even if i chose to flaunt my intellect, is it any different than someone flaunting the physical aspects of themselves? Is it better to flaunt a big booty than to flaunt a big brain?

710398


Neither may matter to anyone. People who flaunt their bodies will turn people off and people who flaunt their education may turn people off. If you had a friend who kept saying I'm a size 6, my body is tight, I can't find a man with a body as tight as mine, you might see why someone is turned off.


Funny I am working on my 2nd degree, applying for a 3rd and I had no problems finding a man.

Big old balla with all your mens-es, why you gotta rub it in? I betchoo real smart. I betchoo got them black men running scurred from being so threatened. Is they scurred of you?

charli
02-09-2005, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 9 2005, 03:35 PM
Also i wanted to add that i recently read an article which was addressing this very issue, among women in general. Women with a masters have a lower marriage rate than those with just a high school diploma, across the board. So its not even completely a racial issue, many women have to decide between having a family and having kids. I was wondering for some of the women who are older, if this has been an issue for them.

710407


That has more to do with the fact that women are more likely to forsake dating extensively to concentrate on career or academics than the fact that they are smart and/or have good jobs. I have known many a woman to say "I don't have time to date, I'm trying to get through school or focus on my career" and find themselves hitting 30 with no prospects in sight. And THEN feel a little panicked to find someone. Whereas the HS diploma person, didn't have that focus on academics, and may not be on a corporate ladder or career track and thus have more time to devote to a relationship.

If you are studying 24/7 or working 60 hour weeks, you just don't have much time for a relationship. It's not that you're too smart/accomplished to find a man of equal caliber.

NLight1
02-09-2005, 11:44 PM
itaylor -
Sis, you keep mentioning there are no smart black men in your classes. Is the classroom the only place where you think you can find an intellectual man? Are there no black men at your school - anywhere? You mentioned that the men you meet seem to be intimidated by your intellect, how so? I mean what do they say or how do they act to give you that impression?

Indeed, its great that you have all honors classes, but if that is all you talk about when you are with a man, he probably is bored to death. I'm very intelligent myself, but I have so many other attributes going for myself and the men I date like that, in addition, to my mentally stimulating conversations. My intelligence comes through in the way I walk, talk, and everything about me. I don't have to reinterate it over and over again to try and impress anyone. Be patient sis, as mentioned, you are in school and your honors classes may be your whole world right now but in the real world, no one will care what honor's classes you took. They want to see if you can make it in the real world. When I first went on job interviews after I graduated from college, no one cared that I graduated with honors (even though I did), they wanted to know about my work experience and qualities I had that made me the best candidate for the job.

Never play down how smart you are, but that doesn't have to be your only topic of conversation. If every man you date is a turn off to you, you might have something to do with it, don't assume it is the men that have the problem.

Best of luck with school and your search for an intelligent mate :)

Lokii
02-10-2005, 12:02 AM
Interesting responses. I'm picking up the assumption that random people are savvy enough to spot a people who dumb themselves down and to dislike them for it. In my opinion and personal experience people who are intimidated by intellectual or accomplished people are more than happy to be around the dumbed down version of a person. The stress and disatisfaction is on the part of the person who's dumbing down because the person knows if they stop playing the part the relationship will be over.

I went to all white universities and I do get what OP is saying. Although some of posters are making this assumption - I've never worn my credentials on my sleeve but I've also had to do a lot more listening than talking when around people who I had nothing in common with, and and kept who I am to myself. I don't recommend this to anyone else though. My advice has already been posted by likeAgift above. Take the extra effort to meet like minds. This is easier than ever in the internet age. Don't dumb yourself down though - its a waste of your time and energy that you can be using on much more useful things.

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 12:18 AM
I took AP classes too and I'm really smart. The issue you're havign use to be an issue for me but not anymore. You just have to be patient and know where to look for the type of men you're looking for. Why downplay who you are? You're just going to end up in a relationship that you're terribly unhappy in because you're not being yourself. I'm single and quite happy. If you're having a hard time finding the type of man you want (I know they can be almost impossible to find on a college campus) then perhaps it's a sign that you should focus on you for now. Keep your standards and be yourself. Eventually you'll find a relationship that just adds to the happiness you'll already have.

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 12:31 AM
I just wanted to add that I feel like people are totally misunderstanding the OP. Even on college campuses, I found that most men both black and white just want girls who don't stimulate them intellectually. I don't think they're intimidated, I just think they're looking for different things. I've met a lot of girls who intentionally don't tell guys what college they go to or that they're taking honors courses b/c a lot guys just assume that they're smart and a lot of guys just don't want "smart" girls. Plus, a lot of guys do exactly what a lot of the posters have done which is assume that the OP is just so stuck on herself and that she just totally flaunts how smart she is. In addition, they'll act totally different. My best friend goes to Harvard, and she never mentions to people that she goes to Harvard unless the topic comes up. Even among Harvard undergrad men, she has a hard time because of the type of person she is. She's extremely confident and well read, she's tall, she wears her naturally, and she into causes that affect African American women. I don't see this as flaunting but a lot of Harvard men, especially the undergrads really don't want girls like my best friend. They would rather be with girls who are more concerned with their social lives and who don't think seriously about too much of anything. I just wanted to say that the OP has some validity to what she is saying. Just my :2cents:

LuvThosNaps
02-10-2005, 01:45 AM
I grew up in a predominantly white town, but in my HS graduating class there were 2 black guys in the top 10 in the class (Out of 350), one was the Valedictorian, I was ranked 8th. Maybe it was a different time, maybe it was the town, but if we wanted to date a "smart" girl that was in all our honors and AP classes, we would have had to date white girls. The only black girl that was in any of our classes, excluding gym, was dating some guy from the next town over where she had more black guys to choose from. At that time I only was open to dating black and hispanic women, and since there were no Latinas in my classes either, I resolved to date no one.

I was convinced that no one was really worthy. Eventually I became friends with the sole black girl in the honors classes and guess what, I found out that I wouldn't have dated her anyway. I was in college at the time and though I had more black female intellectuals to converse with, I found that I didn't want to always talk about school or watch people flaunt how smart they were. I was one of them, but I grew up to realize what I was doing and it even turned me off.

I tried to dumb it down for a bit too. I figured I could fit in with "normal" folk better if I did. I was finding myself, but I was very unhappy because I wasn't being myself in trying to find myself. Eventually I found myself and I found that I could be smart without having to throw it in everyone's face and making them feel uncomfortable. You can trust me when I say you are the one that emanates the aura that makes people uncomfortable. I was that person some years back. I used to say I didn't find many women that stimulated me mentally, and being well accomplished in academia never corellated to her being the one that could.

Trust me he's out there, you just gotta be open to finding him. Take the time to listen to yourself talk. Even in this thread you seem to have a haughty attitude about your academic achievements. Listen to yourself and then catch yourself. You might discover that you don't find the men you deal with intellectually stimulating because they don't want to make the effort to connect with you. You belittle someone either intentionally or unintentionally, he/she will lose interest quickly.

Deljah
02-10-2005, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 9 2005, 12:15 PM
The issue is, i find myself trying to hide being smart when i meet guys because they become very intimidated. .....Even worse, sometimes guys feel like i am threatening them with my intellect and feel like they are in a constant competition with me.

709825


How many brothers in your college have told you that they feel intimidated and threatened by your intellect? How many have said they feel like they are in constant competition with you?



ETA: I snipped some things out of the quote to focus on key points, not to change the meaning.

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Deljah@Feb 9 2005, 08:47 PM
How many brothers in your college have told you that they feel intimidated and threatened by your intellect? How many have said they feel like they are in constant competition with you?

710594


I don't think this is something that men will readily admit to. :unsure:

Deljah
02-10-2005, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 9 2005, 08:48 PM
I don't think this is something that men will readily admit to. :unsure:

710595



Why do women think men feel intimidated, threatened or like they're in a competition if men are not admitting it?

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Deljah@Feb 9 2005, 08:53 PM
Why do women think men feel intimidated, threatened or like they're in a competition if men are not admitting it?

710607


I think some men really show it. However, if you're close to guys and ask them how men percieve you or other women they'll say whether you're intimidating. Trust me some men really do feel intimidated by certain women.

nappycoco
02-10-2005, 02:02 AM
random thoughts on this sbuject: hmmm...very interesting that I man would be intimidated by an intelligent woman........unless she is confusing intimidation with boredom because she is continuously EMPHASIZING it! then this man is looking for a polite way to say he is not interested....honestly no one wants a dumb son a B......so being intelligent is a plus....a have a smart *** girlfried who corrects everything you say, debates every issue....honestly that ish is annoying...i can't even get to know her for real because she is either always referring to some book, or correcting on an issue that i have a strong opinion on by telling me i am wrong

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 02:06 AM
To the OP: are you really some unique person who most guys might find a little hard to handle or just a girl who takes being an intellectual too far? I use to be the later and guys really don't like that. I always had to talk about the classic literature I was reading, the latest political news and causes, etc. That's great but it doesn't create romance or a connection when that's the only thing you have to offer. I mean if you're a sea of knowlegde with no personality and varied interests then guys might be turned off. Once again I say focus on you. I'm sure there's so much more to you than the fact that you're smart. I mean tell me what other assets do you have? What other things appeal to you?

Lokii
02-10-2005, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 10 2005, 10:31 AM
I just wanted to add that I feel like people are totally misunderstanding the OP. Even on college campuses, I found that most men both black and white just want girls who don't stimulate them intellectually. I don't think they're intimidated, I just think they're looking for different things. I've met a lot of girls who intentionally don't tell guys what college they go to or that they're taking honors courses b/c a lot guys just assume that they're smart and a lot of guys just don't want "smart" girls. Plus, a lot of guys do exactly what a lot of the posters have done which is assume that the OP is just so stuck on herself and that she just totally flaunts how smart she is. In addition, they'll act totally different. My best friend goes to Harvard, and she never mentions to people that she goes to Harvard unless the topic comes up. Even among Harvard undergrad men, she has a hard time because of the type of person she is. She's extremely confident and well read, she's tall, she wears her naturally, and she into causes that affect African American women. I don't see this as flaunting but a lot of Harvard men, especially the undergrads really don't want girls like my best friend. They would rather be with girls who are more concerned with their social lives and who don't think seriously about too much of anything. I just wanted to say that the OP has some validity to what she is saying. Just my :2cents:

710486


ITA except that in my experience guys on these types of campuses are intimidated AND into different things. It's not something to have hard feelings over though. If a guy is that insecure makes for a miserable relationship.

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Lokii@Feb 9 2005, 09:12 PM
ITA except that in my experience guys on these types of campuses are intimidated AND into different things. It's not something to have hard feelings over though. If a guy is that insecure makes for a miserable relationship.

710632


ITA. I feel like the OP may be for some reason is attracting these kinds of men. I don't know :dunno:

Deljah
02-10-2005, 02:34 AM
I think it is far too easy to put the onus solely on the men and say/assume/project that they are intimidated or whatever. Saying that men are intimidated is even a bit cliche in my opinion. A bit too convenient in some cases as well.

The greatest growth often comes from examination of self.

NLight1
02-10-2005, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Deljah@Feb 9 2005, 08:34 PM
I think it is far too easy to put the onus solely on the men and say/assume/project that they are intimidated or whatever. Saying that men are intimidated is even a bit cliche in my opinion. A bit too convenient in some cases as well.

The greatest growth often comes from examination of self.

710671

Indeed sis, especially the part in bold. :)

Sunchild
02-10-2005, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Deljah@Feb 9 2005, 09:47 PM
How many brothers in your college have told you that they feel intimidated and threatened by your intellect? How many have said they feel like they are in constant competition with you?
ETA: I snipped some things out of the quote to focus on key points, not to change the meaning.

710594

I would like to know too. :dunno:

I cant possibly believe that ones education is so elite that some mere mortal man couldnt possibly relate to you, and you would have to dumb yourself down to get a guy.

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by afrikankween@Feb 10 2005, 09:03 AM
I would like to know too. :dunno:

I cant possibly believe that ones education is so elite that some mere mortal man couldnt possibly relate to you, and you would have to dumb yourself down to get a guy.

711163


It depends on the college and the men. I went to Colgate which is suppose to be an "elite" college. However, the men didn&#39;t seem too elite in their choice of women. The white guys wanted the party girls who weren&#39;t serious about anything and the black guys wanted the white party girls and the black girls who didn&#39;t make them work too hard to get a piece of that azz b/c the black guys had their gfs back home. I didn&#39;t want to date the buffoons anyway <_< . I don&#39;t even want to date undergrad men. I&#39;m usually approached by older guys anyway. I think this type of stuff happens a lot at predominately white "elite" institutions.

Sunchild
02-10-2005, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 10 2005, 10:19 AM
It depends on the college and the men. I went to Colgate which is suppose to be an "elite" college. However, the men didn&#39;t seem too elite in their choice of women. The white guys wanted the party girls who weren&#39;t serious about anything and the black guys wanted the white party girls and the black girls who didn&#39;t make them work too hard to get a piece of that azz b/c the black guys had their gfs back home. I didn&#39;t want to date the buffoons anyway <_< . I don&#39;t even want to date undergrad men. I&#39;m usually approached by older guys anyway. I think this type of stuff happens a lot at predominately white "elite" institutions.

711194

Hey you long time no talk. :P


I guess my point is that somebody will always have better credentials then you, and it could be a serious misnomer to think that ppl at the same school as you are intimidated by your(your and you being used in a genreal sense) education. I just dont buy this at all, and I agree with the poster who said some self examination is in order. I just dont think one can have an edcuacation that completely alienates them from the rest of the population. I mean isnt the OP just in undergrad? She hasnt even obtained a degree yet and talking about not finding a man.... :icon_headshake: There are ppl with PhDs who have spouses, so I mean it cant possibly be the intellect or education. :dunno:

ScoobyGurl
02-10-2005, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by afrikankween@Feb 10 2005, 09:24 AM
Hey you long time no talk. :P
I guess my point is that somebody will always have better credentials then you, and it could be a serious misnomer to think that ppl at the same school as you are intimidated by your(your and you being used in a genreal sense) education. I just dont buy this at all, and I agree with the poster who said some self examination is in order. I just dont think one can have an edcuacation that completely alienates them from the rest of the population. I mean isnt the OP just in undergrad? She hasnt even obtained a degree yet and talking about not finding a man.... :icon_headshake: There are ppl with PhDs who have spouses, so I mean it cant possibly be the intellect or education. :dunno:

711199


Hi AK!http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/3/happy40.gif

Yeah, I agree that the OP probably needs to do some self examination before venturing out on the dating scene. She maybe isolating people as well. Although I think as an undergrad dating can be hard.

rozlips
02-10-2005, 05:36 PM
I dunno, I think I&#39;ve experienced something similar and I got my undergraduate degree almost 20 years ago. Most of my life I experienced difficulty meeting guys I could relate to. I didn&#39;t necessarily attribute it to my intellect, as I&#39;m probably somewhat average, but I do think both my interests and personality were (are) somewhat off-putting. I&#39;d suggest to the original poster that rather than looking for guys just on the college campus in her classes that she join some organizations or groups of like-minded individuals. I met a lot of great guys in my political and civic organizations that were more my cup of tea.

LanaB
02-10-2005, 06:09 PM
I don&#39;t know if anyone remembers the cover story in Newsweek that ran about a year ago. The article was about the difficulty of educated black women finding a black mate that was equally as educated. It was similar to a round table discussion with statistics included. It was an interesting article. I am also an educated woman, like alot on this board. Ungrad, grad school and hopefully next stop medical school. I date men of various educational backgrounds. I do believe that formal education is important, but you could possibly meet a man that lives in the same city of your campus that does not have alot of formal education but is very intelligent and that you can have stimulating conversations with. I&#39;m not attacking you in anyway Itaylor, my advice is to enjoy college and think of the old cliche, never judge a book by it&#39;s cover. Everyone has a story and you may potentially be blocking a blessing by doing so. Good luck with your studies and congratulations thus far on a job well done in school.

Chlyric Images
02-10-2005, 09:44 PM
Man this forum and it&#39;s continuous <_< tootooting.

MsCurly85
02-10-2005, 10:22 PM
really? theres ALOT of smart black guys(and girls). I went to high school with guys I knew were going to be the top of their ivory league colleges and become big time doctors... and of course now they are almost there....

Also.. the world is huge.. your classroom isn&#39;t close to reflecting real life... if you rely on that your looking through a narrow minded point of view.

vicchnu
02-11-2005, 12:48 PM
I agree with the OP that it is harder for educated women of all colors to find mates. There was a study that just came out that stated that men preferred traditional women, I can&#39;t remember the %.

My ex-husband use to always bring up my education in an arguement. He&#39;ll say things like: Well, you don&#39;t need a degree to know... or I may not have a degree but....

ChocoMom
02-11-2005, 01:19 PM
I also graduated with honors and married a fine, black man with more degrees than a thermometer. I dated plenty of men, and education has never been an issue. I&#39;ve dated doctors, lawyers, businessmen, the butcher, the baker, and the undercover pharmacist (you know what I mean). Men like what women like, sincerity, honesty, variety, and a big butt and pretty smile doesn&#39;t hurt either.
I often hear single, educated women complain about their lack of prospects. That line about black men being so intimidated is truly tired, and allows people not to grow past their own hang-ups and stereotypes. Like others have said, a lot of educated people put too much emphasis on that piece of paper without developing other interests. A man doesn&#39;t want to hold more than a 5 minute conversation about your education-he doesn&#39;t give a damn. Ever tried making love to a piece of paper? That&#39;s why wealthy tycoons of industry marry waitresses-they want someone who&#39;s real, someone who has developed more of their personality beyond their education.
OP-what do you have to offer beyond the degree(s)?

itaylor
02-11-2005, 03:22 PM
I am posting this in response to a lot of questions.

A) I DO go to a predominantly white school, and i have always attended schools that were majority white, which maybe the seed of some of my problems.

B) I have dated some men who were not college bound who are definitely not stupid people. I just feel that sometimes there is an underlying social divide between someone who is in college and someone who is not. There is myriad of new people and experiences in college that someone who has not been may not relate to. Maybe some of this will be alleviated once i enter the work force.

C) I am still holding on to the fact that i think some men are intimidated. How can i tell? People treat me differently when i tell them what school i go to. Then, when i ask a man about himself, sometimes they avoid the question, or they say it really quietly, as if whatever they say is not going to impress me or be good enough in comparison. Sometimes they feel like they need to harp on the point that i go to a good school, or i had good test scores, which makes me feel uncomfortable and belittled, which is why i try to avoid it altogether.

D) Education is not the most important aspect of my life. I sing, i dance, i work 2 jobs,i speak 2 languages, people say i have a good sense of humor, i&#39;m a busy woman,. I&#39;m not gonna go on a date and talk about calculus, obviously. Its just that i have yet to find a man who is also as well rounded. I am pretty busy, i still date quite a bit.

E)Lastly, i can&#39;t be anybody but myself. This website is about strong women who have the confidence to be who they are despite social mores. Also, i am only 20yrs old.One poster mentioned that a lot of guys my age just want the easy girl whose sloppy drunk and passed out at the frat party. I have asked some people and perhaps what i am looking for comes along with maturity and age, which a lot of guys in their first few years of college seem to be lacking.

Peaches
02-11-2005, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 11 2005, 11:22 AM
B) I have dated some men who were not college bound who are definitely not stupid people. I just feel that sometimes there is an underlying social divide between someone who is in college and someone who is not. There is myriad of new people and experiences in college that someone who has not been may not relate to. Maybe some of this will be alleviated once i enter the work force.

I know where you&#39;re coming from. It&#39;s funny how men don&#39;t seem to limit themselves to women with education but we women seem to do that when we&#39;re looking for men.

I was really liking a dude a while back who was a lawyer and very attractive. I thought that he would have been interested in somebody who had some education but he ended up with this chick who was not educated and split verbs when she talked. Her hairstyles and clothes were kind of.. well... <_< I have a cousin who has his Ph.D. in polymer science and divorced his intelligent wife to date a hoodrat.. and I do mean hoodrat. She was just stank.

I have standards and enjoy stimulating conversation, but I also enjoy well rounded men who know how to have fun, hold down a job, be faithful, take care of business, etc. I still say hold to your standards and go for what you really want, but make "being treated well" the priority.

Shanna
02-11-2005, 04:09 PM
E)Lastly, i can&#39;t be anybody but myself. This website is about strong women who have the confidence to be who they are despite social mores. Also, i am only 20yrs old.One poster mentioned that a lot of guys my age just want the easy girl whose sloppy drunk and passed out at the frat party. I have asked some people and perhaps what i am looking for comes along with maturity and age, which a lot of guys in their first few years of college seem to be lacking.

Nothing wrong with dating older men. :Male:

awren
02-11-2005, 04:14 PM
Nothing wrong with dating older men.

Nothing wrong with white men either :wub:

ScoobyGurl
02-11-2005, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by awren@Feb 11 2005, 11:14 AM
Nothing wrong with white men either :wub:

712742


They ain&#39;t no better. In fact, they&#39;re worse. :rolleyes:

charli
02-11-2005, 05:38 PM
Its just that i have yet to find a man who is also as well rounded.

A man doesn&#39;t have to be interested in what you&#39;re interested in to be well rounded. They probably are well rounded and you just don&#39;t appreciate their other interests because they aren&#39;t as academic/intellectual as you want them to be.

Let me just say this: I have never met a guy who is not well-rounded. If I can appreciate his interests and not try and measure him by MY yardsick.

charli
02-11-2005, 05:44 PM
Let me just add that I DO think a lot of it has to do with going to a predom white university. I remember when I first stepped foot on the campus of an HBCU.

Tons of very intelligent and intellectual black students. At a predom white university, there are few blacks, thus few blacks with high academic achievement. At an HBCU, you will find far more intelligent blacks. Maybe you should do an exchange for a semester because a lot of them can be just as arrogant and tell you that you aren&#39;t well rounded or intellectual enough for them--- real wake up call.

And so I think a lot of blacks who are in environments tend to think that they have so much of an upper hand over the rest, because they are in a place where blacks are spread out. And they really think they are the cream of the cream of the crop. Until they go into another environment and see that smart black men/women are a dime a dozen and you just weren&#39;t in the place to meet them.

Because, at an HBCU all that ish goes out the window. You aren&#39;t one of few black honor students, because they are ALL black. Makes you put stuff in perspective.

Sweet Epiphany
02-11-2005, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 11 2005, 05:44 PM
Let me just add that I DO think a lot of it has to do with going to a predom white university. I remember when I first stepped foot on the campus of an HBCU.

Tons of very intelligent and intellectual black students. At a predom white university, there are few blacks, thus few blacks with high academic achievement. At an HBCU, you will find far more intelligent blacks. Maybe you should do an exchange for a semester because a lot of them can be just as arrogant and tell you that you aren&#39;t well rounded or intellectual enough for them--- real wake up call.

And so I think a lot of blacks who are in environments tend to think that they have so much of an upper hand over the rest, because they are in a place where blacks are spread out. And they really think they are the cream of the cream of the crop. Until they go into another environment and see that smart black men/women are a dime a dozen and you just weren&#39;t in the place to meet them.

Because, at an HBCU all that ish goes out the window. You aren&#39;t one of few black honor students, because they are ALL black. Makes you put stuff in perspective.

712847


I think Im inclined to agree with this as well. I tend to notice that some self professed "intellects" of color when in predominantly white environments really think that they are some grand ol&#39; exception in my experience.

awren
02-11-2005, 09:53 PM
They ain&#39;t no better. In fact, they&#39;re worse.

The ones I&#39;ve dated were ok, but you&#39;re right-triflin comes in every shade of the rainbow, even el latino triflino :lol:

ScoobyGurl
02-11-2005, 10:30 PM
It really depends on the HBCU. Sorry but some HBCUs shouldn&#39;t be callec colleges at all and I don&#39;t think that would help the OP at all. Plus some PWIs have great, intellecual, and intelligent black communities. We can&#39;t paint a brush over all colleges.

MsCurly85
02-11-2005, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 11 2005, 12:44 PM
Let me just add that I DO think a lot of it has to do with going to a predom white university. I remember when I first stepped foot on the campus of an HBCU.

Tons of very intelligent and intellectual black students. At a predom white university, there are few blacks, thus few blacks with high academic achievement. At an HBCU, you will find far more intelligent blacks. Maybe you should do an exchange for a semester because a lot of them can be just as arrogant and tell you that you aren&#39;t well rounded or intellectual enough for them--- real wake up call.

And so I think a lot of blacks who are in environments tend to think that they have so much of an upper hand over the rest, because they are in a place where blacks are spread out. And they really think they are the cream of the cream of the crop. Until they go into another environment and see that smart black men/women are a dime a dozen and you just weren&#39;t in the place to meet them.

Because, at an HBCU all that ish goes out the window. You aren&#39;t one of few black honor students, because they are ALL black. Makes you put stuff in perspective.

712847


thats true

Peaches
02-12-2005, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 11 2005, 01:44 PM
And so I think a lot of blacks who are in environments tend to think that they have so much of an upper hand over the rest, because they are in a place where blacks are spread out. And they really think they are the cream of the cream of the crop. Until they go into another environment and see that smart black men/women are a dime a dozen and you just weren&#39;t in the place to meet them.

Because, at an HBCU all that ish goes out the window. You aren&#39;t one of few black honor students, because they are ALL black. Makes you put stuff in perspective.

712847


True. I&#39;ve went to a predom/white undergrad and predom/black grad. The environment was more like family. Some people hooked up and dated, got married, whatever. But the blacks at UNC back in the day were more like family because there were so few of us that we had to stick together. However, I met more friends and had much more success at the predom/black school.

The thing about it is that you can hook up with someone at a predom/white school but the dating pool is much smaller. You&#39;re more likely to get close to somebody that you&#39;re spending hours in the library studying with or helping through a chemistry class. At a predom/black school you&#39;ll have even more chances to do that, and you&#39;ll have some "lemme holla atcha" experiences as well.

Just take life as it comes and enjoy the journey. You&#39;ll meet somebody eventually. Personally, I met far more guys in college than I did after I graduated.

Phillydee
02-12-2005, 12:55 AM
I have to agree with Charlie.Your intellect cannot be the THE reason your having trouble finding a man. Of course you don&#39;t want a dummy but if your always on- speaking in a didatic or superior tone, it will scare people away. And not just men. Trust me because I&#39;ve had to find a balance too. And never compromise or hide who you are. If you do meet someone you don&#39;t want to have already been deceiving.

watercolorz
02-12-2005, 03:16 AM
I’ve been following this thread for a couple of days now, and I still can’t figure out what you want to discuss or want advice on. From your description I get only the vaguest sense of who you are… I know your achievements but I don’t know what you do, nor what you are passionate about.

From my understanding you have plenty of suitors but none interest you (or hold your interest) or stimulate you intellectually… they aren’t dumb just not as smart or accomplished as you are… hmmm.

One book you might want to check out is “He’s Just Not that Into You”. Men aren’t intimidated by women they are attracted to… men are either interested or they aren’t.

Most men think they are just a couple sit-ups away from chillin’ in a hot tub with Jlo… Every time my dad sees Hillary Clinton or Condi Rice on television, he always says “Girl come over here I won’t leave you lonely.” So if a man is attracted he will move mountains, go find the Holy Grail, tap dance across coals, if that is what it takes to get next to you.

I’m not ganging up on you at all I went through the same thing… I (age 17-20) thought I was too cultured and sophisticated for most brothas, and couldn’t meet someone who was my equal… :rolleyes: boo hoo… poor me. I got dates cause I am cute but couldn’t get/keep a man (well not one that I wanted).

My grandmother and mother called this my “wonder of me” phase… :unsure: “I am successful, attractive, well-traveled, cultured and yet I can’t find my equal, alas” (this is said with hand to forehead, reclining on a chaise lounge with a delicate slip of chiffon trailing the floor)

My granny and moms said “Yes you are, but you are also a little conceited, smug, snobby pain in the azz… :icon_headshake: but we still LOVE you”. Or as my father would say “At 17 you ain’t been alive long enough to intimidate nobody”

So in short I got over myself and relaxed, and pursued passions that put me in contact with a pool of single men, a bevy of brothas included.

I do beseech you to sit down and check yourself before you start socializing… men can smell undesirable traits (condensation, desperation, conceit, presumption…) on a woman and if the do they run in the opposite direction.

Or worse they take you on as a challenge with no interest in you as a person, only as a conquest or a goal… and you really don’t want to go there. ^_^ ~W

watercolorz
02-12-2005, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by charli+Feb 9 2005, 05:39 PM-->
But also, men have different interests. I have some male friends from college who are off the hook in terms of academic achievement. When we talk, you know what we might talk about? the most recept episode of the Apprentice, or the new John Legend CD or why I&#39;m pissed that I can&#39;t find an ipod shuffle at any retail store in my area.

people just have diverse interests and don&#39;t always like to discuss certain topics or be intellectually stimulated all the time. Even eavesdropping on two very smart guys talking, what are they talking about, last night&#39;s game.


710413
[/b]

I personally have never had problem meeting accomplished, intelligent men (yes black ones too).

I actually belong to an Apprentice Club (where we meet over each other’s houses or in a bar, watch and discuss the show… the men/women ratio in our group 3 to 1 half are single brothas).

I have been a life long sci-fi fan and I used to game back in college… you would be surprised at the number of interesting, intelligent attractive guys that are at these events and only what… 20% or less women.

If you are in a college town I would try the computer show… always works for me. I am a gadget fanatic, and you can pick up software, ear pieces for your cell, etc… real cheap, and you don’t have to fake being a techie to meet loads of guys.

<!--QuoteBegin-itaylor@Feb 11 2005, 09:22 AM
D) Education is not the most important aspect of my life. I sing, i dance, i work 2 jobs,i speak 2 languages.

Its just that i have yet to find a man who is also as well rounded.
712680


If you are looking for “well-rounded” guys that speak 2 or more languages in your age group… consider extreme sport or marathon training sessions, martial arts classes are REALLY good. Driven guys work hard (study/jobs) and they play hard.

If you are on the east/west coast, I know most of the Ivy Leagues have them, try a Sommelier Society. Lots of straight guys (from the coast) are very into wine.

These are places where single, educated, accomplished brothas who are local to you are likely to gather in concentration regardless of their “specialty”.

Oh... :P and condsider yourself fortunate, I usually don’t give up my “hunting map”… ^_^ ~W

Nappy_Rogue
02-12-2005, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 9 2005, 12:28 PM
It&#39;s you.

No, really.

Probably because you are still in college, you are looking at your education as though it is the bomb diggity (because you mentioned you are an honors student and that&#39;s hardly relevant to finding a man) and probably wear it on your sleeve. therefore, you probably come across differently to people because of that. I mean I find these threads funny when a woman can&#39;t find a man, she automatically assume it&#39;s because black men are intimidated by her (education, career, salary, material posessions, knowledge). She never thinks maybe, they just don&#39;t like her personality, maybe she&#39;s a bit stuck on herself, maybe they aren&#39;t attracted. They think that their resume entitles them to a great catch.

Well, you&#39;re on the same level as every other woman, no special consideration for your honors status in school.

I know people hate to hear that.

No special consideration for your educational status. Because men have different trade offs they are willing to make.

Oh the screams and outrage from the black women who get upset that they are on the same level as those with lesser accomplishments.
709836


No, I don&#39;t think so.
I didn&#39;t go to school to be on the same level as those who didn&#39;t.
People go to school for a reason, and part of the reason is to land a mate who has the same interest and credentials as me.
Why would I date a man who can&#39;t measure up to what I want when I do have more than someone who is not educated?
If an intelligent man wants someone who attractive, well rounded, and educated, then I&#39;m the one.
If he&#39;s going to pick someone who doesn&#39;t have all that, then he&#39;s not what I would want in the first place.
The best will have nothing less than the best.
If you can have someone better, you get someone better. Those who want or get less get it because they can&#39;t have anything better.

Aaliyah537
02-12-2005, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 9 2005, 06:28 PM
Okay, maybe i phrased my questions wrong. i was trying to see if other people knew where i was coming from. I realize that an education is not a qualification to recieve love, but i was wondering if this is a widespread issue.

I mean, for my entire life i have been the only black person in any of my honors classes, occasionally there was another woman, but never any men. Its easier to find black women to have stimulating intellectual conversation with (hence this website) but i feel it is somewhat lacking on the part of the males. I have found many black men who can stimulate me in other ways.....believe me.

I think natitwists understands what i am trying to say. Even if there is no romantic interest, i mean, i am the ONLY black person in ANY of the honors classes now.

I also keep getting mixed messages here, on one hand people are saying not to dumb yourself down for anyone, on the other, people are saying that i&#39;m putting too much emphasis on intellect. I mean, should i just walk into a room and talk over everyone&#39;s head for the sake of "keeping it real"? Secondly, even if i chose to flaunt my intellect, is it any different than someone flaunting the physical aspects of themselves? Is it better to flaunt a big booty than to flaunt a big brain?

710398


I can see where you&#39;re coming from and I&#39;m glad that you&#39;re not cowed by what has been said so far. I personally don&#39;t give much thought to whether or not a black man can be intellectually stimulating bcuz like any other ethnic group, there will be a vast array of interests/personalities. What matters to me is whether I can connect with a person - MALE, FEMALE, WHITE, BLACK, ASIAN... There are many black intellectuals that I won&#39;t date or be friends with bcuz we don&#39;t connect. That&#39;s okay. I guess I&#39;m just not fixated on dating/befriending a black male intellectual (not saying you are). Whether or not the african "non-intellectual" men I meet are intimidated by me?- not really. **** come in various shapes and sizes- intellectual and "non-intellectual" included.
Yeah, be yourself

watercolorz
02-13-2005, 12:01 AM
:lol: I am sorry but you are funny…

Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue+Feb 12 2005, 03:40 PM-->
I didn&#39;t go to school to be on the same level as those who didn&#39;t.

714528
[/b]
Oh… :huh: you are serious.
If you close your eyes does the world disappear?
Regarding dating you are on the same level, and depending on your age and physical appearance you may be up or down a peg or two.
Men do not have the same criteria as women. Most alpha males value sweet, charming, cultured, attractive, and admiring.
The top two professions of the wives of millionaires are teacher and former model, the percentage of men married to both are really close. Most models don’t go to college until they retire and are married, and some never do.
But as a collective group models almost exclusively marry educated, financially successful men. The next group to marry well, are kindergarten and elementary teachers. The group after that are women in the arts.

Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 12 2005, 03:40 PM
People go to school for a reason, and part of the reason is to land a mate who has the same interest and credentials as me.

714528

Men go for an education. Which is something that some women don’t get. For my group it was only about half of the couples that hooked up in college who married.
Because the fact is that the combination of education and time increases a mans social value. A mans dating pool widens as he get older, for most women there’s stays the same or shrinks. If a man decides to remain single until he is 50 he can still marry (usually a woman under 35) and have kids.

Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 12 2005, 03:40 PM
Why would I date a man who can&#39;t measure up to what I want when I do have more than someone who is not educated?

714528

You don’t have to, you can stay home.Measuring up is only your perception… you can’t get into someone else’s head. The value you assign to your assets is not necessarily what they will command on the open market. Don’t get it twisted, because you think you have xyz and it is the bomb… doesn’t mean that men will feel the same.
But I know many women who end up bitter and alone who have this attitude.
You need to relax girl, I suggest yoga.
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 12 2005, 03:40 PM
If an intelligent man wants someone who attractive, well rounded, and educated, then I&#39;m the one.
If he&#39;s going to pick someone who doesn&#39;t have all that, then he&#39;s not what I would want in the first place.

714528

Oh… like when you snub a guy and walk away, and he says “You weren’t that fine anyway”… is the above statement the female equivalent.
So if all else fails and the guy doesn’t want you he wasn’t worthy to begin with… are you sure about that?
<!--QuoteBegin-Nappy_Rogue@Feb 12 2005, 03:40 PM
The best will have nothing less than the best.
If you can have someone better, you get someone better.* Those who want or get less get it because they can&#39;t have anything better.

714528

:lol: Let me know how that works for you.

But you have to promise me, that if it doesn’t you won’t give any interviews, or make public statements regarding the shortage of good black men or how brothas ain’t ish.
If I won’t have to listen to you whine in Essence magazine if you end up alone and lonely… than I wish you well.

And when you meet and marry him, post the pictures because I want to see this one, I&#39;m sure you will make a lovely bride. ^_^ ~W

charli
02-13-2005, 01:04 AM
@watercolorz:

on point as usual.


As far as education placing you a level


I didn&#39;t go to school to be on the same level as those who didn&#39;t.


I wonder where you went to school, whether it was Ivy leage, whether you graduated summa *** laude, if you have a masters or a PhD or only a bachelor&#39;s degree. I wonder how much money you make, where you live, how big your house is (if you own one), what&#39;s your credit score, what kind of car do you drive, how much money have you got stacked away in 401Ks, IRAs or SEP-IRAs. I wonder what you do for a living, whether you work out, how good you look (by MY standards, honey, not yours) whether you are a perfect size 6, have perfectly straight shiny white teeth, nice perky breasts. I wonder how easily you can drop some kids and then drop those pounds, how well you put it down in bed, whether you have emotional baggage or not, how well you can cook or clean. How well you can raise a child. I wonder if you will feel the same once you get older, telling people that they have what they have becuase they could do no better. Wonder if your man is (or will be if you don&#39;t have one) really that great of a catch or just a catch you YOU because he has that paper, but all the other girls would pass him up...

I wonder...

Because everybody has their own standards. Your education may put you a level up in your eyes, but someone else may be quick to cut you right back down.

I also wonder how much you get around because one thing I notice about people:

When people are in environments with people of lesser accomplishments, they tend to think more of what they have done until they get in an environment where everybody is on a level playing field. Then they whine that the criteria is unfair when they previously used to use it to try to justify why they should have an advantage.

YKWIM? Find a girl who hangs around ugly chicks, she will think she is the bizz-omb. Tell you that you should want her because she is so fine, these other chicks can&#39;t hang. then put her in an environment where every woman is fine and she will cry that looks are not that important, it&#39;s what&#39;s on the inside that matters.


The value you assign to your assets is not necessarily what they will command on the open market. Don’t get it twisted, because you think you have xyz and it is the bomb… doesn’t mean that men will feel the same.


THANK YOU.


But as a collective group models almost exclusively marry educated, financially successful men. The next group to marry well, are kindergarten and elementary teachers. The group after that are women in the arts.

Break it down for them.

ScoobyGurl
02-13-2005, 01:31 AM
:smil3f9cf95099cff:

I can&#39;t believe the server censored out *** in summa *** laude. :lol:

Back to the topic :pop:

watercolorz
02-13-2005, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 12 2005, 07:04 PM
As far as education placing you a level
I wonder where you went to school, whether it was Ivy leage, whether you graduated summa *** laude, if you have a masters or a PhD or only a bachelor&#39;s degree. I wonder how much money you make, where you live, how big your house is (if you own one), what&#39;s your credit score, what kind of car do you drive, how much money have you got stacked away in 401Ks, IRAs or SEP-IRAs. I wonder what you do for a living, whether you work out, how good you look (by MY standards, honey, not yours) whether you are a perfect size 6, have perfectly straight shiny white teeth, nice perky breasts. I wonder how easily you can drop some kids and then drop those pounds, how well you put it down in bed, whether you have emotional baggage or not, how well you can cook or clean. How well you can raise a child. I wonder if you will feel the same once you get older, telling people that they have what they have becuase they could do no better. Wonder if your man is (or will be if you don&#39;t have one) really that great of a catch or just a catch you YOU because he has that paper, but all the other girls would pass him up...

YKWIM? Find a girl who hangs around ugly chicks, she will think she is the bizz-omb. Tell you that you should want her because she is so fine, these other chicks can&#39;t hang. then put her in an environment where every woman is fine and she will cry that looks are not that important, it&#39;s what&#39;s on the inside that matters.

714751

:pointlaugh: Get out of my head or pay rent… :lol: ~W

nappyesquire
02-13-2005, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by watercolorz@Feb 11 2005, 07:16 PM
I’ve been following this thread for a couple of days now, and I still can’t figure out what you want to discuss or want advice on. From your description I get only the vaguest sense of who you are… I know your achievements but I don’t know what you do, nor what you are passionate about.

From my understanding you have plenty of suitors but none interest you (or hold your interest) or stimulate you intellectually… they aren’t dumb just not as smart or accomplished as you are… hmmm.

One book you might want to check out is “He’s Just Not that Into You”. Men aren’t intimidated by women they are attracted to… men are either interested or they aren’t.

Most men think they are just a couple sit-ups away from chillin’ in a hot tub with Jlo… Every time my dad sees Hillary Clinton or Condi Rice on television, he always says “Girl come over here I won’t leave you lonely.” So if a man is attracted he will move mountains, go find the Holy Grail, tap dance across coals, if that is what it takes to get next to you.

I’m not ganging up on you at all I went through the same thing… I (age 17-20) thought I was too cultured and sophisticated for most brothas, and couldn’t meet someone who was my equal… :rolleyes: boo hoo… poor me. I got dates cause I am cute but couldn’t get/keep a man (well not one that I wanted).

My grandmother and mother called this my “wonder of me” phase… :unsure: “I am successful, attractive, well-traveled, cultured and yet I can’t find my equal, alas” (this is said with hand to forehead, reclining on a chaise lounge with a delicate slip of chiffon trailing the floor)

My granny and moms said “Yes you are, but you are also a little conceited, smug, snobby pain in the azz… :icon_headshake: but we still LOVE you”. Or as my father would say “At 17 you ain’t been alive long enough to intimidate nobody”

So in short I got over myself and relaxed, and pursued passions that put me in contact with a pool of single men, a bevy of brothas included.

I do beseech you to sit down and check yourself before you start socializing… men can smell undesirable traits (condensation, desperation, conceit, presumption…) on a woman and if the do they run in the opposite direction.

Or worse they take you on as a challenge with no interest in you as a person, only as a conquest or a goal… and you really don’t want to go there. ^_^ ~W

713690


girl are you my double-ganger (hopefully not evil though)?!? i swear i could have wrote this. um, OP i think she hit the nail on the head... re-read this A LOT cuz it&#39;s got merit.

watercolorz
02-13-2005, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by nappyesquire@Feb 12 2005, 11:39 PM
girl are you my double-ganger (hopefully not evil though)?!?
715070

:lol: Nope it’s all puppies and lollipops… :ph34r: ~W

LBellatrix
02-13-2005, 01:52 PM
This has been a very interesting thread. Originally I too thought the OP was being ganged up on because I found myself relating to a lot of what she said.

However, after reading watercolorz&#39;s posts (and rereading charli&#39;s because I was afraid I was about to disagree with her for possibly the first time ever :) ) I&#39;m seeing the other side of the situation.

I will never tell anybody -- ESPECIALLY A SISTER -- to "settle" for anything less than what they think they deserve. However, I also think that we each need to examine not just what we bring to the table, but how we come to the table. Relationships -- from the most casual to the most intimate -- are never just about one person and what they can or can&#39;t give you. There is always reciprocation of some sort.

OP, there may be something to the notion of your being "one of the few and the proud" at your university. Since you say you&#39;re looking for a brother...is it possible that you&#39;re not spending enough quality time in predominantly black environments? I&#39;m not saying you necessarily need to go re-enroll in an HBCU tomorrow...I&#39;m just wondering if you&#39;re...okay, I&#39;ll say it...getting out enough.

I&#39;m honest enough to admit that the reason I&#39;m not meeting anybody interesting (black, white, or other) is that I&#39;m definitely not getting out enough. I know for a fact that this city (Chicago) is full of interesting intelligent (which isn&#39;t necessarily the same as educated!) men. It&#39;s just a matter of putting myself in their radii more often.

Once I&#39;m there, though, do I need to dumb myself down in order to attract them? Do I need to put on a slinky dress and cover my locs with a Tina Turner wig (circa 1967, not 1983)? No, no, and no. People will give you all kinds of advice on how not to act around men but the truth is that you should ALWAYS BE YOURSELF. If intelligent is what you are, then be intelligent. Understand, though, that just because someone doesn&#39;t know xy&z doesn&#39;t necessarily mean they&#39;re not still a worthy person to know or be around. But you still have the right to define what is attractive to you!

Good luck. I&#39;m glad you started this discussion and I hope it keeps going. I hope you&#39;re learning from it...because I certainly am. :)

LuvThosNaps
02-13-2005, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 12 2005, 04:40 PM
No, I don&#39;t think so.
I didn&#39;t go to school to be on the same level as those who didn&#39;t.
People go to school for a reason, and part of the reason is to land a mate who has the same interest and credentials as me.
Why would I date a man who can&#39;t measure up to what I want when I do have more than someone who is not educated?
If an intelligent man wants someone who attractive, well rounded, and educated, then I&#39;m the one.
If he&#39;s going to pick someone who doesn&#39;t have all that, then he&#39;s not what I would want in the first place.
The best will have nothing less than the best.
If you can have someone better, you get someone better. Those who want or get less get it because they can&#39;t have anything better.

714528


Exactly the kind of woman everyone is advising itaylor not to be. In this post you sound very snobbish, so I guess that limits your dating pool to exactly what you want... another snob.

ScoobyGurl
02-13-2005, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 12 2005, 04:40 PM
No, I don&#39;t think so.
I didn&#39;t go to school to be on the same level as those who didn&#39;t.
People go to school for a reason, and part of the reason is to land a mate who has the same interest and credentials as me.
Why would I date a man who can&#39;t measure up to what I want when I do have more than someone who is not educated?
If an intelligent man wants someone who attractive, well rounded, and educated, then I&#39;m the one.
If he&#39;s going to pick someone who doesn&#39;t have all that, then he&#39;s not what I would want in the first place.
The best will have nothing less than the best.
If you can have someone better, you get someone better. Those who want or get less get it because they can&#39;t have anything better.

714528


You&#39;re the type of woman who lives alone with two cats when she&#39;s 40. :icon_headshake:

LBellatrix
02-13-2005, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by ScoobyGurl@Feb 13 2005, 09:40 AM
You&#39;re the type of woman who lives alone with two cats when she&#39;s 40. :icon_headshake:

715303


Um, I live alone with two cats and I&#39;m going to be 40 in June. Aside from the fact that I don&#39;t have a man, I&#39;m actually doing quite well with myself, thank you very much.

*sooooo sick of this stereotype*

ScoobyGurl
02-13-2005, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by LBellatrix@Feb 13 2005, 09:44 AM
Um, I live alone with two cats and I&#39;m going to be 40 in June. Aside from the fact that I don&#39;t have a man, I&#39;m actually doing quite well with myself, thank you very much.

*sooooo sick of this stereotype*

715306


Didn&#39;t mean to insult you. I totally understand that some women choose to live that way and I don&#39;t have a prob with that. However, I doubt that that women I was responding to wants to lives like that. No need to get touchy <_< .

rozlips
02-13-2005, 04:59 PM
Welcome to the Big 4-0 Lbella! It really feels good.


Originally posted by LBellatrix@Feb 13 2005, 08:44 AM
Um, I live alone with two cats and I&#39;m going to be 40 in June. Aside from the fact that I don&#39;t have a man, I&#39;m actually doing quite well with myself, thank you very much.

*sooooo sick of this stereotype*

715306

caraqueen
02-13-2005, 09:22 PM
I don&#39;t mention my educational background much unless it is necessary or someone asks. I have found that sometimes people take it that you are boasting when you mention your educational accomplishments. When I meet a man , I don&#39;t bring it up most of the time. Yet, I am still myself with everyone I meet. I speak my mind. I have met men who felt that I was too "opiniated" for them....that was too bad. For the most part I have met plenty of black men who are turned on by an intelligent woman who challenges them and has a head on her shoulders and is not afraid to use it.

Nappy_Rogue
02-14-2005, 06:43 PM
Some of you think being in an HBCU where you are around other black men will help, but does it really?
Historically black colleges, key word, historically.
There are whites who go these colleges and many of them (white women) date black men there. Going to an HBCU doesn’t necessarily level the playing field for a young black woman who wants to date educated and intelligent black men.
You might find yourself in the same situation as you were at the all-white colleges, you’ll just have more black girlfriends to talk to about it.

Education is very important to me.
If you don’t have it, didn’t sacrifice to get it, then it must not have been very important to you. So I am not on the same level as someone who doesn’t have an education.
I am not on the same level as many other women who have less than I do or can offer less than I have. Why would I or anyone place themselves on the same levels as any skank getto hoodrats like those previously mentioned when many of us have worked hard not to be that and actually achieve something that we are proud of and that makes our lives better?
Something that our family can be proud of?
Something that our man and future husbands would be proud of?
If a man doesn’t want a woman with more to offer than that, then he probably is intimidated by what I or any intelligent and educated black woman has to offer, and he’s not worth my time to begin with.
I don’t think I would want someone who would look over me to get with someone skank and getto or having less to offer than me because I wouldn’t go for anything less than what I desire to have myself.
I won’t settle and any man worth having won’t settle for less either.

Yes, I&#39;m serious. And I&#39;m sure others will agree ;) :rolleyes:

charli
02-14-2005, 07:21 PM
Some of you think being in an HBCU where you are around other black men will help, but does it really?
Historically black colleges, key word, historically.
There are whites who go these colleges and many of them (white women) date black men there. Going to an HBCU doesn’t necessarily level the playing field for a young black woman who wants to date educated and intelligent black men.
You might find yourself in the same situation as you were at the all-white colleges, you’ll just have more black girlfriends to talk to about it.


Going to an HBCU does help one get one&#39;s head out of one&#39;s own azz by thinking that they are so far "above" other black people, when placed into an environment of primarily black people, many of whom are high achievers.

And as I said before, education is only one part of the equation, but somehow women expect it to count for a lot more than it typically does to a man.

As was mentioned before, most financially successful men either marry models or teachers. I bet a man would rather marry a humble beautiful model, or average looking teacher, than an educated snob.


Something that our man and future husbands would be proud of?

Again, the words of someone still in, or fresh out of college.

How many women, attached or married, who have been out of college for quite a few years, can HONESTLY say that their education is something that really comes up in the relationship. That your SO/DH says, "you know, I&#39;m really PROUD of that degree."


If a man doesn’t want a woman with more to offer than that

She probably has more to offer, you just don&#39;t value it because you expect your education to account for so much.

You know any woman can come up in here and be a snob. I think a good portion of women on this board have degrees, and many have advanced degrees. A decent portion have very good, high paying jobs. Many are very creative in the artistic fields. A decent portion are gorgeous (and not that ooh girl you pretty because I&#39;m just trying to pump you up, but are really gorgeous) a good portion have really, REALLY nice figures, and quite a few have achieved a HELLUVA LOT more than just getting a degree (which, really, if that&#39;s your life achievement, you ain&#39;t done much and hit me up in a few years and you&#39;ll see what I mean).

I think maybe some sisters should each start a thread about how our ___ should count for a lot and we are above other women based on ___ and any guy who wants to be with a woman without ___ isn&#39;t worth our time.

Really put some of this stuff in perspective. Hell, most of the women responding to this thread have degrees but are more humble than to have that "above others" attitude.

My point is everybody has something to offer. But those who think one characteristic of themselves outweighs what otehrs have to offer is just--- a snob.

ScoobyGurl
02-14-2005, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 01:43 PM
Some of you think being in an HBCU where you are around other black men will help, but does it really?
Historically black colleges, key word, historically.
There are whites who go these colleges and many of them (white women) date black men there. Going to an HBCU doesn’t necessarily level the playing field for a young black woman who wants to date educated and intelligent black men.
You might find yourself in the same situation as you were at the all-white colleges, you’ll just have more black girlfriends to talk to about it.

Education is very important to me.
If you don’t have it, didn’t sacrifice to get it, then it must not have been very important to you. So I am not on the same level as someone who doesn’t have an education.
I am not on the same level as many other women who have less than I do or can offer less than I have. Why would I or anyone place themselves on the same levels as any skank getto hoodrats like those previously mentioned when many of us have worked hard not to be that and actually achieve something that we are proud of and that makes our lives better?
Something that our family can be proud of?
Something that our man and future husbands would be proud of?
If a man doesn’t want a woman with more to offer than that, then he probably is intimidated by what I or any intelligent and educated black woman has to offer, and he’s not worth my time to begin with.
I don’t think I would want someone who would look over me to get with someone skank and getto or having less to offer than me because I wouldn’t go for anything less than what I desire to have myself.
I won’t settle and any man worth having won’t settle for less either.

Yes, I&#39;m serious. And I&#39;m sure others will agree ;) :rolleyes:

717437


You CANNOT be SERIOUS and I don&#39;t agree in the slightest bit. My stepfather always told me that "no man is better than any other man. Some men are better at what they do than other men but they&#39;re not better than other men." Sometimes I wish colleges had courses on humility :( .

ScoobyGurl
02-14-2005, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 01:43 PM
Some of you think being in an HBCU where you are around other black men will help, but does it really?
Historically black colleges, key word, historically.
There are whites who go these colleges and many of them (white women) date black men there. Going to an HBCU doesn’t necessarily level the playing field for a young black woman who wants to date educated and intelligent black men.
You might find yourself in the same situation as you were at the all-white colleges, you’ll just have more black girlfriends to talk to about it.

Education is very important to me.
If you don’t have it, didn’t sacrifice to get it, then it must not have been very important to you. So I am not on the same level as someone who doesn’t have an education.
I am not on the same level as many other women who have less than I do or can offer less than I have. Why would I or anyone place themselves on the same levels as any skank getto hoodrats like those previously mentioned when many of us have worked hard not to be that and actually achieve something that we are proud of and that makes our lives better?
Something that our family can be proud of?
Something that our man and future husbands would be proud of?
If a man doesn’t want a woman with more to offer than that, then he probably is intimidated by what I or any intelligent and educated black woman has to offer, and he’s not worth my time to begin with.
I don’t think I would want someone who would look over me to get with someone skank and getto or having less to offer than me because I wouldn’t go for anything less than what I desire to have myself.
I won’t settle and any man worth having won’t settle for less either.

Yes, I&#39;m serious. And I&#39;m sure others will agree ;) :rolleyes:

717437


You CANNOT be SERIOUS and I don&#39;t agree in the slightest bit. My stepfather always told me that "no man is better than any other man. Some men are better at what they do than other men but they&#39;re not better than other men." Sometimes I wish colleges had courses on humility :( .

carboncopysue
02-14-2005, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 06:43 PM
Some of you think being in an HBCU where you are around other black men will help, but does it really?
Historically black colleges, key word, historically.
There are whites who go these colleges and many of them (white women) date black men there. Going to an HBCU doesn’t necessarily level the playing field for a young black woman who wants to date educated and intelligent black men.
You might find yourself in the same situation as you were at the all-white colleges, you’ll just have more black girlfriends to talk to about it.

717437

Are you serious? Have you been to all of the HBCUs in the US and documented this? I do know some HBCUs have a large white population now, but the one I attend (FAMU) and the ones I&#39;ve visited (Central State, Wilberforce, TSU, Howard, Hampton, NCA&T, SC State, AU Center, Tuskegee, Kentucky State, BCC) are full of blacks folks getting their education (like you). There may be the "evil white woman" trying to "steal our black men", but that count is negligible to me.

In response to the original post, I don&#39;t find that I have to "dumb myself down", I just be me. I don&#39;t wear my education on my forehead. And I&#39;ve met plenty of intelligent black men, dated a few (currently with one now) without much effort and "searching".

Sue.

charli
02-14-2005, 11:20 PM
There may be the "evil white woman" trying to "steal our black men", but that count is negligible to me.


It IS. At the HBCU I went to, it was 93% black. And the other 7% was divided between Latinos, Whites and Native Americans, with the Chinese person here or there (couldn&#39;t blame them, though, they went because THEY qualified for minority scholarships, not becasue they wanted to steal black men).

Sweet Epiphany
02-14-2005, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 06:43 PM
Education is very important to me.
If you don’t have it, didn’t sacrifice to get it, then it must not have been very important to you. So I am not on the same level as someone who doesn’t have an education.
I am not on the same level as many other women who have less than I do or can offer less than I have. Why would I or anyone place themselves on the same levels as any skank getto hoodrats like those previously mentioned when many of us have worked hard not to be that and actually achieve something that we are proud of and that makes our lives better?
Something that our family can be proud of?
Something that our man and future husbands would be proud of?
If a man doesn’t want a woman with more to offer than that, then he probably is intimidated by what I or any intelligent and educated black woman has to offer, and he’s not worth my time to begin with.
I don’t think I would want someone who would look over me to get with someone skank and getto or having less to offer than me because I wouldn’t go for anything less than what I desire to have myself.
I won’t settle and any man worth having won’t settle for less either.

Yes, I&#39;m serious. And I&#39;m sure others will agree ;) :rolleyes:

717437


:rolleyes: At this post and all its elitism and classism behind it. I think this line of thinking is exemplary of just how some of us just overestimate education and having a degree. Right now, there is an OVERSATURATION of degrees out there. As we speak, advanced degrees are becoming less and less impressive in the job market. Academia is not the end all be all as that piece of paper will not guarantee success. While I too value education, I&#39;ve learned very early on that having one is not as impressive as I once thought it would be since there are SOOOOO many uberly intelligent and intellectual black folks in any given discourse....

Nappy_Rogue
02-15-2005, 06:01 PM
I am not being a snob.
I am not elitist, classist, nor do I think I am better or above anyone else.
Never said my education was the end all, be all, I just said it was important to me and my family and should be important to my potential and future mates (plenty of reasons for that – what if he falls ill and I have to be a breadwinner? Higher education means higher earnings potential).

Bottom line
Should a woman have to settle for less than what she desires?
I believe your answer to that would be an resounding ‘no.’
So should a woman settle for a man who would settle for less than she herself has to offer? I wouldn’t necessarily marry an exotic dancer (male stripper, nothing against them, just wouldn’t), so why would I want, date and marry a man who would want the same caliber of people that I myself wouldn’t date or marry? Why would I want a man who would look over me to date strippers (regardless of his education and background) when I wouldn’t date their male equivalent? If I have standards and refuse to settle, then it’s imperative that he has standards and refuse to settle also, understand? That why I say if he wants me or any woman like me, he won’t settle for less. For him to settle for less would be….
settling… something you told women not to do.

And when I say ‘settle’ or don’t, that right there means we have standards, and those standards are determined by things like education, class, attractiveness, salary, ect. I thought most people prefer to date and marry within their self-defined groups. A form of exclusivity many will apparently deny.

And with all due respect, I hope there was no offense taken by the terms I used in my last post (and giving way to these responses). I was not the first to mention them, I just took them up notch.

Fin.
Still meant every word. :pop:

Angelsam
02-15-2005, 08:11 PM
DIVIDE AND CONQUER -- Why do we keep doing this to ourselves?
It is elitism whether you want to admit it or not.

I really wish those who seem to think that a formal higher education has any connection to a person&#39;s intelligence or what thay have to offer in a relationship would get a reality check. Not going to college does not reflect a person&#39;s values nor does it mean that they cannot be highly successful.

Lets be honest, really honest for a minute. Who goes to college because they want to be "educated"? How many of us complained about having take classes to fulfill certain requirements that we deemed unnecessary? If it was only about education, would we complain about that? NO! We go to college to get a degree because it allows us access to higher paying jobs and more opportunities to pusue interests (or at least it used to), not because we truly want to know all of that stuff and spend tens or hundreds of thousands of $$.

Limit yourself to dating people who have the same "achievents" as you, and you will miss out some wonderful men.

Don&#39;t get me wrong, I understand why an education is important and why people want partners who have had similar EXPERIENCES. (I prefer to say that than achievements because there are many, many more kinds of achievents that have nothing to do with education.) But please understand that on the larger scale it is rather insignificant. I place more value on a man&#39;s sincerity, responsibility, humor and trustworthiness than I do on his education. To me, its a nice bonus, but not a requirement because it has nothing to do with character.

I&#39;ve met losers and winners of both kinds. I realize now that MY attitude has everything to do with the kind of man I attract. A man that has the important qualities and good character will be successful in life (career) and a relationship.

BTW I have a blue-collar, non college-educated man and he can hang in any kind of discussion with me. Except books and literature, and for that I have my friends and a book club. In fact, he is way more knowedgeable and responsible about finances/investments than me so I&#39;m confident we won&#39;t be poor. And if he gets sick and can no longer work. I will happily take care of us. Why couldn&#39;t I? I&#39;m the one with a degree. :P

watercolorz
02-15-2005, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue+Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM-->
Some of you think being in an HBCU where you are around other black men will help, but does it really?
You might find yourself in the same situation as you were at the all-white colleges, you’ll just have more black girlfriends to talk to about it.
717437
[/b]
This was offered as a suggestion of how you could solve the problem of not meeting black men who were “on your level”. And yes it does help because the dating pool is bigger… you are more apt to find what you are looking for if you go where it is plentiful.
If you are spending your time commiserating with your girlfriends about how wonderful you are, but you can’t find a man, there is the big source of your problem.
If you want financial advice you don’t go to bankruptcy court, you go find Bill Gates. But if you are hanging out in bankruptcy court then I suspect that you are looking to co-sign your own failure.
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
Education is very important to me.
717437

And it should be. It is a wonderful personal achievement… but it has little to do with dating or marriage.

Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
If you don’t have it, didn’t sacrifice to get it, then it must not have been very important to you.
717437

A presumptuous statement… As you have been told repeatedly the women who post here are educated and intelligent (notice I make a distinction) high achievers. Many have had to sacrifice for their education so we understand of what you speak.
If you are referring to men in general, black men in particular, there isn’t a black man who is your perceived equal who doesn’t appreciate how hard it is. Even if he didn’t have to struggle, at this level he has been told many times to be sure, that he is one of the few and proud.

Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
So I am not on the same level as someone who doesn’t have an education.
I am not on the same level as many other women who have less than I do or can offer less than I have.
717437

Sure you are, you are just in denial :rolleyes: . </span>

I have yet to meet the man you says “Yeah, but does she have a degree.” Or I know she’s fine, but what school did she go to?”

As far as who has less, well that is all perception isn’t?

The hard truth is you attract who/what you are. If you were what you think/claim to be, you would have no problem finding a man “on your level”.

The brotha you are looking for may meet a fine azz girl working at the local Walmart, going to community college, Sunday school teacher, who baby-sits on the weekend.

Now you may look at her and think well I am as pretty as her but I go to XYZ and I am an honor student. Reality check… that’s not going to be the deal breaker for the Alpha male that you describe. In fact, for reasons to numerous to list here, he might PREFER to date her.

So in your head the above woman isn’t your equal, but she is dating many of the men you desire to date, regardless of who you think is on your level or not.
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
Why would I or anyone place themselves on the same levels as any skank getto hoodrats like those previously mentioned when many of us have worked hard not to be that and actually achieve something that we are proud of and that makes our lives better?
717437

See nobody mentioned “skank, ghetto hoodrats” but you. This shows how out of step you are if you think that model or kindergarten teacher is “ghetto”… or where your head is regarding your own status.
But the truth is a beautiful girl with a banging body who lives in the projects with only a high school diploma working at the corner store, has the same shot that you have at your ideal dream man. And if she looks better than you do probably more.Most men would figure she could always educate herself, become more cultured, but beauty is a gift from God. And college is a lot cheaper than the plastic surgeon.
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
Something that our family can be proud of?
717437

And your family should be proud of your educational achievements. Your mother is the one who will go on and on about her daughter the honor student.
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
Something that our man and future husbands would be proud of?
717437

Not to be redundant… but I have yet to meet the man who tells you about his woman/wife and follows that with “let me show you her resume”. Nor have I know the brotha who says that I knew I was going to marry her when I saw her GPA.
If you don’t believe me, list 10 famous men who meet YOUR criteria who are married. Now look at who they are married to. Now ask yourself “Is that me?”
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
If a man doesn’t want a woman with more to offer than that, then he probably is intimidated by what I or any intelligent and educated black woman has to offer, and he’s not worth my time to begin with.
717437

You’re hung up on men being “intimidated” by you. Has a man said to you “It’s not you it’s me, you’re just too smart for me, I could never make you happy.”
No that is something that you have inferred based upon your lack of success. If you really want to know the truth ask a man, a friend if he finds you intimidating.

Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
I don’t think I would want someone who would look over me to get with someone skank and getto or having less to offer than me because I wouldn’t go for anything less than what I desire to have myself.
717437

Are you trying to take comfort in the fact that you can’t find the quality of man you are looking for because they are dating “skank, ghetto” women? How are you defining these terms? Because you are talking the conversation to a whole different place.
Do you find the men that fit your criteria attracted to and dating these women? If that is the case then either something is wrong with your criteria or you are missing the value these women have.<!--QuoteBegin-Nappy_Rogue@Feb 14 2005, 12:43 PM
I won’t settle and any man worth having won’t settle for less either.
Yes, I&#39;m serious. And I&#39;m sure others will agree ;) :rolleyes:

717437

<span style=\'font-family:Courier\'>I agree that you shouldn’t settle, and no one suggested that you should. But every suggestion as to how you can improve your situation and at least meet men who maybe potential mates has been met with negativity. You seem more content to be smug and alone than to solve the problem.

You came here as I understand because what you are doing hasn’t been working for you. Because by your own definition you haven’t met anyone worthy, but it is beginning to read as if you came here to get us to co-sign your lack of success or did you want us to make you feel better by bashing black men… because that ain’t gonna happen. <_< ~W

charli
02-15-2005, 09:44 PM
@watercolorz-- we&#39;ll call it even. I won&#39;t owe you rent, you won&#39;t owe me any, we will just hang out in each others heads from time to time. Don&#39;t come over now, thought, mine&#39;s a little junky.


But the truth is a beautiful girl with a banging body who lives in the projects with only a high school diploma working at the corner store, has the same shot that you have at your ideal dream man. And if she looks better than you do probably more.Most men would figure she could always educate herself, become more cultured, but beauty is a gift from God. And college is a lot cheaper than the plastic surgeon.

Aint&#39; that the truth. A person can always go and get an education, but a foul attitude is hard to deal with.

I have a cousin who was, what some might call, a "ghetto hoodrat". She&#39;s not skank (but let&#39;s not even front like a lot of skanking and sexing around doesn&#39;t go on at college campuses). But she was a bit ghetto and she did live in the hood and only has a HS diploma.

And she is sweet as hell. Real old school. Keeps her house meticulous, she&#39;s like "baby can I make you a plate" at dinner time, she keeps the clothes washed and folded, always making a home cooked meal, takes care of things around the house. She has a part time job, doesn&#39;t make much money, but she is home with the children when they are at home, working when they are at school. And she&#39;s always supportive of everything that he does. Her husband is a really nice, educated, military man. Oh, and he&#39;s real handsome too.

And I remember when they got married because a lot of chicks were like "why is he marrying HER." Fortunately she missed the memo that stated that she was so unworthy of a good man.

ValleyOfDecision
02-15-2005, 09:57 PM
I just wanna say that I&#39;m really feelin&#39; this thread. It actually helps me to check myself and see other POV if I find myself saying presumptuous things, such as calling other women w/o degrees "skank ghetto hoodrats" to rationalize why I don&#39;t have a man. <_< Don&#39;t get me wrong, I don&#39;t call women that (unless it&#39;s TRULY called for), but I know of women who say things about their education and the "other" women when wondering about why they can&#39;t get a man.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming. :)

:pop:

MsCurly85
02-16-2005, 03:15 AM
I rather be with a man with limited education.. and has a ok paying job- that cares about me and we click.. then a "educated" man who cares nothing about me.. and only with me b/c of "status" reason... that sounds so unhappy and soo superfical.

Also.. a college education and degree.. doesn&#39;t automatically mean your going to be successful.. or make a lot of money- just had to add that in.

Azure
02-16-2005, 07:02 AM
Being intelligent can&#39;t be the do-all and be-all of you, can it? :dunno:

Yeah, people consider me smart, and I did all the honors stuff too, but I never, NEVER had a problem attracting men.


The key is to broaden your horizons. Don&#39;t skip over those suitors because they aren&#39;t intellectual enough. You may be missing out on a good thing.

And for the record, I&#39;ve met plenty of sweet, wonderful guys that may not have all the education you require but would make a great catch.

Azure :smil3f9cfa4a8d9af:

Nappy_Rogue
02-16-2005, 02:19 PM
dejavu.
In reverse.
<_< ;)
Fin.

ScoobyGurl
02-16-2005, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Nappy_Rogue@Feb 16 2005, 09:19 AM
dejavu.
In reverse.
<_< ;)
Fin.

720313


You&#39;re fighting a losing battle.http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/fighting/1/fighting61.gif

honeychild
02-16-2005, 02:53 PM
LOLOL @ this thread. i didn&#39;t even come in here b/c i thought the topic was so absurd, but WHY did charli & watercolorz hold it DOWN that hard? lol. giggle. snort.

i was the only black person in honors classes, too... and it was only girls... IN HIGH SCHOOL!! know what i did? got my a$$ outta there, went to spelman, where my 1360 SAT scores were a dime a dozen. oh, it was WONDERFUL!!! i was so happy not to be &#39;the only one&#39; for the first time in my life. i could actually ease up off academics and enjoy myself. i was tripping over intelligent, intellectual, nerdly, and beautiful negroes left and right. met dozens who were not only smart, but foine. not only foine, but artistic (my personal fetish); and not only artistic, but nappyheaded and/or in LOVE with some nappy hair. and not only that, but actively working to eradicate sexism, positively impact our communities, and be good people.

met a couple knuckleheads, too. but so what. knuckleheads are everywhere.

so then, right. i graduated magna cyum laude, right? went to an MA/PhD program at a large predominantly white university. but b/c blackness and black community is important to me, where did i go? NYU in NYC. and why? b/c i didn&#39;t want my chance at community to be limited to my school.

and guess where i met my smart, funny, gorgeous, artistic, college-educated husband?

on the street while on my rollerblades.

gurl get a grip. it SO is not abt your &#39;education.&#39; technically speaking, you don&#39;t even have one yet. relax and go wander around the world a little w/out such intense expectations, and you might be surprised at what you wander across.

ScoobyGurl
02-16-2005, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by honeychild@Feb 16 2005, 09:53 AM
gurl get a grip. it SO is not abt your &#39;education.&#39; technically speaking, you don&#39;t even have one yet. relax and go wander around the world a little w/out such intense expectations, and you might be surprised at what you wander across.

720375


ITA :)

nebula2001
02-18-2005, 12:31 AM
I also attend a prestigous university and the main goal around here isn&#39;t to find someone to stimulate you intellectually (perhaps because everyone accepts that everyone is smart :unsure: ). What I&#39;m saying is, the guys that I&#39;m attracted to, aren&#39;t necessarily ones that I can discuss Trotsky or other &#39;intellectual- type&#39; topics with. For me, that would be BORING and shallow relationship. I agree with the other responses to your message. Maybe you are giving off the wrong signal or you could be looking for men who have the qualities that you desire, but at this point in their lives are busy concentrating on other things.

Honestly, when it comes down to it, people are multi-dimensional. Just because a particular guy can&#39;t or doesn&#39;t want to discuss things that you consider intellectually motivating, doesn&#39;t mean that he isn&#39;t intellegent and can not teach you a thing or two.

Education/Intellect will only get you so far; the rest depends on your personality and your heart. Don&#39;t trip over it and don&#39;t &#39;down play your smarts&#39;.

Moi :2cents:

sonce
02-18-2005, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 11 2005, 03:22 PM
I am posting this in response to a lot of questions.

A) I DO go to a predominantly white school, and i have always attended schools that were majority white, which maybe the seed of some of my problems.

B) I have dated some men who were not college bound who are definitely not stupid people. I just feel that sometimes there is an underlying social divide between someone who is in college and someone who is not. There is myriad of new people and experiences in college that someone who has not been may not relate to. Maybe some of this will be alleviated once i enter the work force.

C) I am still holding on to the fact that i think some men are intimidated. How can i tell? People treat me differently when i tell them what school i go to. Then, when i ask a man about himself, sometimes they avoid the question, or they say it really quietly, as if whatever they say is not going to impress me or be good enough in comparison. Sometimes they feel like they need to harp on the point that i go to a good school, or i had good test scores, which makes me feel uncomfortable and belittled, which is why i try to avoid it altogether.

D) Education is not the most important aspect of my life. I sing, i dance, i work 2 jobs,i speak 2 languages, people say i have a good sense of humor, i&#39;m a busy woman,. I&#39;m not gonna go on a date and talk about calculus, obviously. Its just that i have yet to find a man who is also as well rounded. I am pretty busy, i still date quite a bit.

E)Lastly, i can&#39;t be anybody but myself. This website is about strong women who have the confidence to be who they are despite social mores. Also, i am only 20yrs old.One poster mentioned that a lot of guys my age just want the easy girl whose sloppy drunk and passed out at the frat party. I have asked some people and perhaps what i am looking for comes along with maturity and age, which a lot of guys in their first few years of college seem to be lacking.

712680


I&#39;m with you 100% on everything you&#39;ve said and I completely understand where you&#39;re coming from :hug:

sonce
02-18-2005, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 9 2005, 05:15 PM
I am an honors college student at a reputable university, i have been honors classes my whole life, and an AP student high school. I have noticed that i seem to be the only black person in any of these honors classes. I&#39;m not trying to sound conceited, its just my reality. The issue is, i find myself trying to hide being smart when i meet guys because they become very intimidated. In addition, i have yet to meet a brother who can stimulate me intellectually. Even worse, sometimes guys feel like i am threatening them with my intellect and feel like they are in a constant competition with me. Is this an issue for anyone else? How do i combat this?

709825



If you can&#39;t find a black guy that stimulates you intellectually, then move on to other races. White, and even asian, men often make up a majority of honors/AP classes and the further you climb up the social ladder, the more of them you&#39;ll encounter, so it shouldn&#39;t be hard for you to find one of them that appeals to you both physically and intellectually. There&#39;s no reason you shouldn&#39;t allow yourself to find someone you&#39;re comfortable with in every way, and if black men aren&#39;t doing it for you then there&#39;s definitely no reason you shouldn&#39;t move on.

blumoonbabe
02-18-2005, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by sonce@Feb 17 2005, 08:42 PM
If you can&#39;t find a black guy that stimulates you intellectually, then move on to other races. White, and even asian, men often make up a majority of honors/AP classes and the further you climb up the social ladder, the more of them you&#39;ll encounter, so it shouldn&#39;t be hard for you to find one of them that appeals to you both physically and intellectually. There&#39;s no reason you shouldn&#39;t allow yourself to find someone you&#39;re comfortable with in every way, and if black men aren&#39;t doing it for you then there&#39;s definitely no reason you shouldn&#39;t move on.

722795



SO this is the solution/excuse to drop Black men huh? :dunno: :(

itaylor
02-18-2005, 12:58 AM
Okay here&#39;s the problem, and this is just an age old dillemma which probably won&#39;t be solved in this forum. Its pretty easy to get a man to want you. Most women know how to dress, act, and speak in way to get a man salivating...but its a heck of a lot harder to get a man to want you based on things such as education.

I guess what i&#39;m saying is i&#39;m really sick of the superficiality of a lot of relationships. When you meet a guy he&#39;s gonna talk to you cuz he thinks your cute, and at that moment thats all he cares about cuz he doesn&#39;t know anything else. It seems to me that in a lot of relationships thats about as far as it goes. I try to talk about other things (politics, scientific research, current world events) but unless it involves sex, alcohol, or sports it seems most guys ain&#39;t tryna hear it. He just wants to be with his cute girlfriend. I said this before, i dunno if this is an education thing or not, i&#39;m beginning to think this is just a maturity thing.

CurleeDST
02-18-2005, 01:10 AM
I agree with your assessment Charli 200%. I have several girlfriends who are very highly accomplished. Make good money, own their own businesses, have advanced degrees and have it like that.

They are manless or can&#39;t keep one around for very long. They also say it is because a man is intimidated by their accomplishments and degrees. After listening, analyzing it and asking men what they think they all came back with what Charli said not that having acquired higher education isn&#39;t a good or great thing, it is not the #1 thing they look for in a worthwhile mate, possible future wife and mother of their children.

The rhetorical questions they asked were:

1. can she cook? no man wants to think that his future children will be eating McD&#39;s every night if he isn&#39;t home first to make dinner.
2. is she nurturning? if you two were to have children can she nurture that child or is she children adverse and if she is, why would I marry her b/c the reason I would get married is to start a family and spend the rest of my life with her. If she doesn&#39;t want kids, no need to marry her.
3. does she have common sense? if something happens to me can she still handle things or do I need to write a caregiver into the will?
4. am I attracted to her? she got to be fine and stimulate me visually as well as mentally and lyrically.

And after further listening to my girls who got it like that but are manless or at least not in a long term relationship headed towards marriage (they all are mid-30&#39;s or older) they proudly proclaim they do not cook and won&#39;t cook, do NOT want children and constantly talk about what the man needs to have and look like but better question, he has to look like this and that but if a man did look that way would he be attracted to YOU? And I have obviously never been in relationships with my friends but from some of the stuff they tell me I think they may "flaunt" their education a little much for the man&#39;s liking. If you are an intelligent and independent woman - no need to let him know every 15 minutes. Your actions will display it.

According to my hubby a REAL man could give SQUAT about how much money you make. The only kind of man who cares is one who is looking to take advantage of you and the situation. A real man is going to provide for his family whether he makes more or less and knows this. Plus, at least here in DC, there are PLENTY of women who got it going on and who look good too so being intelligent isn&#39;t something that necessarily makes you stand out from the pack. Now if you are intelligent and like to COOK when the other women won&#39;t? Heck now you stand out!

Not saying someone has to cook to get and keep a man. Every man is different, but just like you may not want to hear him constantly brag and mention his high paying job, where he went to school, name drop, etc. neither does he.

Now my husband can get ignant and he also says a man may not stay with you b/c the breath is tart or something crude like that. But again, he is silly!


Originally posted by charli@Feb 9 2005, 01:28 PM
It&#39;s you.

No, really.

Probably because you are still in college, you are looking at your education as though it is the bomb diggity (because you mentioned you are an honors student and that&#39;s hardly relevant to finding a man) and probably wear it on your sleeve. therefore, you probably come across differently to people because of that. I mean I find these threads funny when a woman can&#39;t find a man, she automatically assume it&#39;s because black men are intimidated by her (education, career, salary, material posessions, knowledge). She never thinks maybe, they just don&#39;t like her personality, maybe she&#39;s a bit stuck on herself, maybe they aren&#39;t attracted. They think that their resume entitles them to a great catch.

Well, you&#39;re on the same level as every other woman, no special consideration for your honors status in school.

I know people hate to hear that.

No special consideration for your educational status. Because men have different trade offs they are willing to make.

Oh the screams and outrage from the black women who get upset that they are on the same level as those with lesser accomplishments. Well, I didn&#39;t know of many black men who would say "I want a woman of high academic achievement so we can have intellectually stimulating conversations." the fun, round the way, easy going laid back girl with a B or C average probably is more appealing, not because he&#39;s intimidated by academic achievement, but because he doesn&#39;t want to hear about it every dang minute.

Matter of fact, thinking back on college and who got married to whom, I can say that grades or academic achievement didn&#39;t factor in at all. Maybe that&#39;s why a lot of girls date their professors, because they are the ones that want to sit around and talk about intellectually stimulating things. Hmmm.... food for thought

(And before someone accuses me of being a *hater*, I graduated with honors too- so I ain&#39;t hating!)

I&#39;m tired of black men made out to be intimidated. Some are, most aren&#39;t but I find that many women fall back on that cop out instead of taking an HONEST look at why they haven&#39;t found someone.

And I just have to add-- you don&#39;t have to *hide* being smart, unless you are condescending about being smart to the point that you turn people off.

709836

nebula2001
02-18-2005, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 17 2005, 08:58 PM
Okay here&#39;s the problem, and this is just an age old dillemma which probably won&#39;t be solved in this forum. Its pretty easy to get a man to want you. Most women know how to dress, act, and speak in way to get a man salivating...but its a heck of a lot harder to get a man to want you based on things such as education.

I guess what i&#39;m saying is i&#39;m really sick of the superficiality of a lot of relationships. When you meet a guy he&#39;s gonna talk to you cuz he thinks your cute, and at that moment thats all he cares about cuz he doesn&#39;t know anything else. It seems to me that in a lot of relationships thats about as far as it goes. I try to talk about other things (politics, scientific research, current world events) but unless it involves sex, alcohol, or sports it seems most guys ain&#39;t tryna hear it. He just wants to be with his cute girlfriend. I said this before, i dunno if this is an education thing or not, i&#39;m beginning to think this is just a maturity thing.

722816


...Oh.. maybe it&#39;s the school that you attend or maybe the guys that you attract. I don&#39;t have that problem and I find that even if a guy does approach me &#39;because I&#39;m cute :blush: &#39;, there is usually something about him that is deeper than that and even then, that doesn&#39;t mean i&#39;m going to go out with him. Look around. Look for guys that will treat you like a LADY (from the time they introduce themselves to you), you&#39;ll be surprised at the other qualities that they might possess.

CurleeDST
02-18-2005, 01:14 AM
Girl you betta tell it!!!!!!!


Originally posted by honeychild@Feb 16 2005, 10:53 AM
LOLOL @ this thread. i didn&#39;t even come in here b/c i thought the topic was so absurd, but WHY did charli & watercolorz hold it DOWN that hard? lol. giggle. snort.

i was the only black person in honors classes, too... and it was only girls... IN HIGH SCHOOL!! know what i did? got my a$$ outta there, went to spelman, where my 1360 SAT scores were a dime a dozen. oh, it was WONDERFUL!!! i was so happy not to be &#39;the only one&#39; for the first time in my life. i could actually ease up off academics and enjoy myself. i was tripping over intelligent, intellectual, nerdly, and beautiful negroes left and right. met dozens who were not only smart, but foine. not only foine, but artistic (my personal fetish); and not only artistic, but nappyheaded and/or in LOVE with some nappy hair. and not only that, but actively working to eradicate sexism, positively impact our communities, and be good people.

met a couple knuckleheads, too. but so what. knuckleheads are everywhere.

so then, right. i graduated magna cyum laude, right? went to an MA/PhD program at a large predominantly white university. but b/c blackness and black community is important to me, where did i go? NYU in NYC. and why? b/c i didn&#39;t want my chance at community to be limited to my school.

and guess where i met my smart, funny, gorgeous, artistic, college-educated husband?

on the street while on my rollerblades.

gurl get a grip. it SO is not abt your &#39;education.&#39; technically speaking, you don&#39;t even have one yet. relax and go wander around the world a little w/out such intense expectations, and you might be surprised at what you wander across.

720375

sonce
02-18-2005, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by blumoonbabe@Feb 18 2005, 12:48 AM
SO this is the solution/excuse to drop Black men huh? :dunno: :(


722805


Drop black men?

You make it sound as if she had them in the first place. :rolleyes:

No one belongs to anyone.

As she clearly stated in the first post, black men aren&#39;t doing it for her, and if that&#39;s the case then she should move on. She shouldn&#39;t feel any responsibility to stick with guys that aren&#39;t appealing to her, nor should she feel guilty. It is her right, and I would even say duty to herself, to not just settle or suck it up because of race similarities. Unless she has an exclusive preference for black men, there&#39;s nothing wrong with her branching out and picking men that fit her, regardless of race.
If she&#39;s a friendly, sweet girl with enough brains for two, it&#39;s her prerogative, and she should find someone that gels with that. Indeed, if she&#39;s a snobby, elitist, overly-intellectual person, as some of you have insinuated, it&#39;s still her prerogative and she should find someone that matches her. :doh

blumoonbabe
02-18-2005, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by sonce@Feb 17 2005, 09:31 PM
Drop black men?

You make it sound as if she had them in the first place. :rolleyes:

No one belongs to anyone.

As she clearly stated in the first post, black men aren&#39;t doing it for her, and if that&#39;s the case then she should move on. She shouldn&#39;t feel any responsibility to stick with guys that aren&#39;t appealing to her, nor should she feel guilty. It is her right, and I would even say duty to herself, to not just settle or suck it up because of race similarities. Unless she has an exclusive preference for black men, there&#39;s nothing wrong with her branching out and picking men that fit her, regardless of race.
:doh

722860



I have noticed that i seem to be the only black person in any of these honors classes. I&#39;m not trying to sound conceited, its just my reality. The issue is, i find myself trying to hide being smart when i meet guys because they become very intimidated. In addition, i have yet to meet a brother who can stimulate me intellectually. Even worse, sometimes guys feel like i am threatening them with my intellect and feel like they are in a constant competition with me. Is this an issue for anyone else? How do i combat this?

709825
[/b][/quote]


<span style=\'color:blue\'> I guess you must have missed where she said she&#39;s often the ONLY or one of the FEW Black people in her surroundings... if this is the case, then OF COURSE her pickings of Black men will be slim. THUS, she should get to where MORE of them ARE instead of lamenting why the few she&#39;s around don&#39;t want her. That&#39;s like me going to a gay club and complaining that I&#39;m not getting enough male attention.

charli
02-18-2005, 01:54 AM
And after further listening to my girls who got it like that but are manless or at least not in a long term relationship headed towards marriage (they all are mid-30&#39;s or older) they proudly proclaim they do not cook and won&#39;t cook, do NOT want children and constantly talk about what the man needs to have and look like but better question, he has to look like this and that but if a man did look that way would he be attracted to YOU? And I have obviously never been in relationships with my friends but from some of the stuff they tell me I think they may "flaunt" their education a little much for the man&#39;s liking. If you are an intelligent and independent woman - no need to let him know every 15 minutes. Your actions will display it.


You know, I see that too. Sometimes acting as thought certain things are beneath them. Like "I&#39;m educated, I WON&#39;T cook. That&#39;s that housewife stuff." I don&#39;t know if you see that type of attitude as well, but I see it often. And many times the *attitude* makes them unattractive.


According to my hubby a REAL man could give SQUAT about how much money you make. The only kind of man who cares is one who is looking to take advantage of you and the situation. A real man is going to provide for his family whether he makes more or less and knows this.

Agree with that as well.

sonce
02-18-2005, 02:14 AM
[quote]Originally posted by blumoonbabe@Feb 18 2005, 01:48 AM
[b]<span style='color:blue'> [b] large font. :rolleyes:

charli
02-18-2005, 02:25 AM
Actually she should date outside the race. So she can be one of those black women who HAD TO go outside the race becasue there just were no decent black men for her and those that she ever met were just oh so incredibly intimidated by all she had to offer.

She should actually go be with a black-man-loathing man of another race so she can fit right in. Because someone who so obviously thinks down of black men should never be with one, let alone a good one and make him miserable by constantly telling him unworthy he is.

sonce
02-18-2005, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 18 2005, 02:25 AM
Actually she should date outside the race. So she can be one of those black women who HAD TO go outside the race becasue there just were no decent black men for her and those that she ever met were just oh so incredibly intimidated by all she had to offer.

She should actually go be with a black-man-loathing man of another race so she can fit right in. Because someone who so obviously thinks down of black men should never be with one, let alone a good one and make him miserable by constantly telling him unworthy he is.

722933


:pointlaugh:..............................:huh: you were joking right? otherwise, that&#39;s quite a stretch there sis...where&#39;d those bolded parts come from? you do realize that there is a difference between realizing that there are no eligible black men in the immediate vicinity and thinking there are no eligible black men at all, right?

Sekhmet
02-18-2005, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by sonce@Feb 17 2005, 06:30 PM
there is a different between realizing that there are no eligible black men in the immediate vicinity and thinking there are no eligible black men at all, right?

But, Atanasova, there are eligible men where she is. They just aren&#39;t interested in her.

;) @ Charli

sonce
02-18-2005, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by Sekhmet@Feb 18 2005, 02:34 AM
But, Atanasova, there are eligible men where she is. They just aren&#39;t interested in her.

;) @ Charli

722944


I&#39;m not atanasova, and I don&#39;t understand what you mean by none of the men are interested in her...unless I missed that part. Didn&#39;t she say she wasn&#39;t clicking with the *black* men?

itaylor
02-18-2005, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Sekhmet@Feb 17 2005, 08:34 PM
But, Atanasova, there are eligible men where she is. They just aren&#39;t interested in her.

;) @ Charli

722944



no.....there are just no eligible black men.

charli
02-18-2005, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by sonce@Feb 17 2005, 06:30 PM
:pointlaugh:..............................:huh: you were joking right? otherwise, that&#39;s quite a stretch there sis...where&#39;d those bolded parts come from? you do realize that there is a different between realizing that there are no eligible black men in the immediate vicinity and thinking there are no eligible black men at all, right?

722940


You DO realize that almost every BW that complains about the lack of eligible black men almost exclusively base their generalizations on their extremely limited experience.

She feels like black men (a general term) are intimidated by educated black women based on her EXTREMELY limited experience and wanted other women to cosign on that. Some do. Instead of saying, the 5,6,7 or whatever black men I have dealt with were intimidated, it turns into BLACK MEN are intimidated.


----

edited for clarity

Shanna
02-18-2005, 02:46 AM
This thread is about to get interesting... :pop: :P

CurleeDST
02-18-2005, 02:49 AM
Yeah they act as if cooking or doing anything remotely resembling a housewife is beneath them. But I also find that even though they make good money and have a lot of education, when it comes to men, they are straight DUMB! I have said this to their faces so they know how I feel about it.

Give too much credit in some instances and don&#39;t have enough power of discernment and give too little credit in others.

I found for myself, when I touted my degrees on my sleeve I also experienced problems with finding someone I wanted to develop a relationship with. When I stopped, let go and let God and stopped worrying about it I found someone who loves me and was everything I could have ever hoped for.

Yeah I cook for him and LOVE IT, I take care of our daughter and LOVE IT and I have the option to stay home and am seriously considering it. He is a provider and protector whether he makes more or less than me and he lets me know I have that option as a mother and nurterer of his children.

So while I say definitely be proud of your accomplishments and successes definitely don&#39;t downplay it or dumb down but show your skills as a help mate vs. a competitor (not saying you are doing that). What I find to be a big challenge is knowing when to turn it ON and turn it OFF. At work turn it on full force. At home, show him your softer side and just have fun, hang back and enjoy the moment. If the conversation turns to it, yeah share where you go to school, say it with a smile and be happy with it. Show some interest in him and try to relate if you know people that attended his school or show your intelligence by sharing the names of some of the professors that attend there, etc.

No one is a master of everything so just because someone doesn&#39;t want to sit around and philosophize over Socrates doesn&#39;t mean they are not deep or have something to offer. Someone else said it here. You show your TRUE intelligence by being versatile and being able to easily adapt to various situations and excel.


Originally posted by charli@Feb 17 2005, 09:54 PM
You know, I see that too. Sometimes acting as thought certain things are beneath them. Like "I&#39;m educated, I WON&#39;T cook. That&#39;s that housewife stuff." I don&#39;t know if you see that type of attitude as well, but I see it often. And many times the *attitude* makes them unattractive.
Agree with that as well.

722884

sonce
02-18-2005, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 18 2005, 02:45 AM
You DO realize that almost every BW that complains about the lack of eligible black men almost exclusively base their experience on their extremely limited experience.


722964


Well golly gee, what else should anyone base their opinions on if not their experiences??

Sweet Epiphany
02-18-2005, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by charli@Feb 18 2005, 02:45 AM
You DO realize that almost every BW that complains about the lack of eligible black men almost exclusively base their experience on their extremely limited experience.

She feels like black men (a general term) are intimidated by educated black women based on her EXTREMELY limited experience and wanted other women to cosign on that. Some do. Instead of saying, the 5,6,7 or whatever black men I have dealt with were intimidated, it turns into BLACK MEN are intimidated.

722964



And that&#39;s EXACTLY what&#39;s at stake here. The world is SOOO much larger than one&#39;s own block. Its a shame that people don&#39;t feel the need to use "I" statements but instead choose to make blanket statements on their small scale experiences and observations. To say that there are NO eligible black men at all seems a little inaccurate to me (and I could careless that the op is in a predominantly white environment).

Sweet Epiphany
02-18-2005, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by sonce@Feb 18 2005, 02:51 AM
Well golly gee, what else should anyone base their opinions on if not their experiences??

722976


But then make it explicitly clear that your basing your statement SOLELY on experience then....

sonce
02-18-2005, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Sweet Epiphany@Feb 18 2005, 02:53 AM
But then make it explicitly clear that your basing your statement SOLELY on experience then....

722981


as opposed to basing it on fact? I think most adults are well aware that others are expressing opinions, which are shaped by experience, when discussing issues like this... :dunno:

charli
02-18-2005, 03:22 AM
Well golly gee, what else should anyone base their opinions on if not their experiences??

Your opinions should be based on your experiences.

HOWEVER, if you are going to generalize a group of people, it should be based on more than just your experience or your limited geographic area/ school/ neighborhood, etc.


Its a shame that people don&#39;t feel the need to use "I" statements but instead choose to make blanket statements on their small scale experiences and observations.

Exactly

Sweet Epiphany
02-18-2005, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by sonce@Feb 18 2005, 03:14 AM
as opposed to basing it on fact? I think most adults are well aware that others are expressing opinions, which are shaped by experience, when discussing issues like this... :dunno:

723008


Well, then I guess Im not "most adults" (according to you) :dunno: ...I interpreted the op&#39;s statement or "opinion" (which, I take it, I should just have assumed it was her "opinion" :rolleyes: ) that there are just no eligible black men (her exact words verbatim on this very page). Im sorry, but it is likely that Im taking what the op is saying out of context, but I found that particular statement to be a blanket one...

blumoonbabe
02-18-2005, 02:04 PM
[quote]Originally posted by sonce@Feb 17 2005, 10:14 PM
[b]Um...ALWAYS</span> write in color, and as long as there are no rules against using the wonderful font options available here, I shall use them as I please. I usually don&#39;t use them, but I did in this post, just for you :blush: You positively SLAY me with your
admonishment and e-thuggery! ^_^ </span>

Take that! Take that! Take that! <span style=\'color:blue\'>© P. Diddy


And with that, I&#39;m done with my contributions in this thread, since it&#39;s clear some people aren&#39;t here to exchange ideas, but want to go off their own personal rants.

NLight1
02-18-2005, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by blumoonbabe@Feb 18 2005, 08:04 AM
Take that! Take that! Take that! © P. Diddy

723472

OMG :pointlaugh: Girl your post got me :lol: :lol:

This thread has taken a positively hilarious tone, I&#39;ve been missing out! :pop:

ScoobyGurl
02-18-2005, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by itaylor@Feb 17 2005, 07:58 PM
I guess what i&#39;m saying is i&#39;m really sick of the superficiality of a lot of relationships. When you meet a guy he&#39;s gonna talk to you cuz he thinks your cute, and at that moment thats all he cares about cuz he doesn&#39;t know anything else. It seems to me that in a lot of relationships thats about as far as it goes. I try to talk about other things (politics, scientific research, current world events) but unless it involves sex, alcohol, or sports it seems most guys ain&#39;t tryna hear it. He just wants to be with his cute girlfriend. I said this before, i dunno if this is an education thing or not, i&#39;m beginning to think this is just a maturity thing.

722816


Hmmm...I&#39;m talking to a guy now (he did go to college and he&#39;s black :D ) but when I talk to him we don&#39;t just talk about politics or scientific research or current events because quite frankly after talking about those things for half an hr it gets boring. There&#39;s nothing wrong with talking about sports. I had so much fun talking to my sweetie over a football game. We were talking such trash about our teams and totally yelling and doing all the stuff you normally do when you watch football. I watched Ice Skating and him and I were laughing and giggling over the costumes that the ice skaters were wearing. We talked about the people in his neighborhood, his tabby cat. We talk about the palm trees in his neighborhood, Charlie Brown, and so many other things that may seem fluffy and light. That doesn&#39;t mean we don&#39;t talk Islam (we&#39;re both Muslim), how we despise GW Bush, how we wish we could do more for the Palestinians, or how to make the black community stronger. However, there has to be a balance. Talking about sports or sex isn&#39;t a bad thing and it&#39;s not immature to talk about them. At first, I was kinda seeing where you were coming from but now I feel like I&#39;m seeing myself when I graduated from high school. You gotta losen up. I&#39;m sure you have so much to offer from the serious to the fluffy. Show it all :D

nappycoco
02-18-2005, 08:31 PM
LET ME JUST HOW MUCH YOU ALL HAVE ENTERTAINED ME!!!!!!

zmurfz
02-18-2005, 08:47 PM
LOVE ALL OF CHARLI&#39;S RESPONSES.

There are tons of educated women finding men left and right. sometimes the gradeur is in our minds. People always screaming about everyone else being intimidated by them usually die alone. Why, they are screaming everyone is intimidated by them all their lives.

tjolims
02-18-2005, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Shanna@Feb 17 2005, 07:46 PM
This thread is about to get interesting... :pop: :P

722966


About to? :lol:

tran68
02-18-2005, 09:06 PM
All I can say is if you are at your wits end tryna find a man that meets your expectations maybe it&#39;s time for you to concentrate on something else.

My ENTIRE life I&#39;ve seen educated/accomplished men marry educated/accomplished women....some married while in college, some right after college or even later in life. The ones who never married just didn&#39;t have that desire anyway, or on the opposite side of the spectrum some were so into their accomplishments/degrees that no man - or woman- could stand to endure their constant griping about "I can&#39;t find a man"..... :icon_ShiftyEye:

CurleeDST
02-18-2005, 09:12 PM
You are so right. Many times, a man is found when one isn&#39;t looking. And I believe men can almost "smell" desperation. Some of my girls come off that way so when they meet someone with potential they scare the fool off with futuristic talk just TOO DURN SOON.

And I have some girls who claim they intimdate a man BUT their ex men will stop dating them and then marry the next woman they meet who has the same # of degrees or more. What is the difference? Not the looks.

My hubby says my friends are kooky and plain boring. A man wants a woman who is stimulating intellectually as well as have a sense of humor, sense of self, not desperately looking for a man or husband and able to be herself around him vs. acting phoney.


Originally posted by tran68@Feb 18 2005, 05:06 PM
All I can say is if you are at your wits end tryna find a man that meets your expectations maybe it&#39;s time for you to concentrate on something else.

My ENTIRE life I&#39;ve seen educated/accomplished men marry educated/accomplished women....some married while in college, some right after college or even later in life. The ones who never married just didn&#39;t have that desire anyway, or on the opposite side of the spectrum some were so into their accomplishments/degrees that no man - or woman- could stand to endure their constant griping about "I can&#39;t find a man"..... :icon_ShiftyEye:

724153

sonce
02-19-2005, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by blumoonbabe+Feb 18 2005, 02:04 PM-->
:icon_headshake:
Well, one thing&#39;s for sure. You, I, and the 21,000 some odd other members here wouldn&#39;t exist, and there certainly wouldn&#39;t be a need for this site, right? What&#39;s so unique about men of OTHER cultures that you&#39;re so eager to jump to? If YOU don&#39;t dig Black men, that&#39;s all gravy for you and whomever else that chooses the same, but don&#39;t try to negate the fact that Black men, women, and families are worthy of love and attention.

[/b]

:smil3f9cfa4a8d9af:................:smil3f9cfa4a8d 9af:..............:smil3f9cfa4a8d9af:

The fact that I don&#39;t think black women should go out of their way to find black men when there are other eligible men around them does NOT mean that I don&#39;t find black men worthy of love. Black.[/color]



You could be a green woman and mother of a triracial child for all I care (how was your child relevant to this discussion? :huh:). I don&#39;t know what people you see thinking &#39;like this&#39; (whatever that means) but don&#39;t drag your issues into this. I fail to see the connection between dating eligible men regardless of race and raising children &#39;dangerously removed from their black identities&#39;--apparently you, yourself, are rather adept at jumping to conclusions eh? :P

<!--QuoteBegin-blumoonbabe@Feb 18 2005, 02:04 PM
And with that, I&#39;m done with my contributions in this thread, since it&#39;s clear some people aren&#39;t here to exchange ideas, but want to go off their own personal rants.[/color]

723472
[/quote]
You&#39;ll be sorely missed :lol:

carmenjones
02-19-2005, 05:28 PM
WOW.

This was a great topic.

I know I&#39;m late, but I have to admit that I&#39;m guilty of that attitude as well. I&#39;m a junior in college, graduating next May, and I guess because my education is so important to me that I automatically expect it to be important to OTHER people. That because I place such a high value on it, that other people should too. And that&#39;s wrong. Education isn&#39;t the only way to be intelligent, although it works for me. And I can honestly say that I DID come to college to be educated. All the classes I take are about subjects that I can&#39;t wait to learn about, excluding the required courses.

But I got a huge reality check reading this thread...I think it was something I needed to read. Definitely reminded me that anytime I get pissed at how men seem to be treating me, I need to take an honest look at myself before I heap the blame on them.

One poster said that she finds herself being quiet when she&#39;s around people that didn&#39;t attend college and I can agree with that. Maybe it&#39;s just because of the environment that I&#39;m in but I really don&#39;t feel like I can relate to them. I haven&#39;t really been out in the real world so I&#39;m hoping this feeling will go away once I graduate and live my life. :P My family tells me all the time that dating in college is very hard, but once I graduate, the playing field will be much more level.

caraqueen
02-20-2005, 02:20 PM
:mellow:

mothergoose
06-19-2005, 11:21 PM
I met my husband while we were both getting educated. Graduate school love over here.

napangel
06-19-2005, 11:45 PM
I to am an educated African American female and find it difficult to find a brotha that I can share a meaningful relationship with. I will be graduating this August. :D PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY!!!!! It seems sometimes as if the chances of me finding that brotha that is just everything and has everything together is never going to happen. Given the fact that no man or person is perfect, can a sista just get close to something decent. I&#39;m a pretty good sista with a lot going for her and the pickings are SO SO SO slim. :dunno: But I keep my head up I pray and I know that someday my prince will come.