Roger Ebert--gives "racist" Review Of... [Archive] - Nappturality Black Natural Hair Care Forums

cher79

03-03-2005, 05:59 PM

Has anyone seen Tyler Perry's "Diary of A Mad Black Woman?"

Roger Ebert gave the movie one star, and I think he said that he didn't enjoy it. This morning on the news he said that a lot of African-Americans contacted him, saying that he didn't "understand Black comedy", while others called him a racist (he's married to a Black woman but not only that, he never struck me as being racist).

I thought this was interesting because in one of my classes, we were looking at bell hooks' theory of critique--she says we should critically think about a work instead of just consuming and enjoying it. She also says that just because a Black person produces something (a text for example) doesn't mean we have to celebrate it or that it's righteous. Hooks also said a lot of people were afraid to use critique because they don't want to seem as if they're disrespecting someone's work.

I've seen some of the responses on here to those Tyler Perry plays--some of you like them, some of you don't. For the ones who don't, I bet there are some Blacks who will act like something's wrong with you because you don't like certain things they like...

So I guess my question is...do you think Ebert was being "racist"? I don't...
Why are we so quick to call someone racist or think something is wrong with he/she just because we criticize/ think critically about something?

Thoughts?

(I don't have a link to Ebert's review--I'm on this Mac computer, and I don't know how to open up more than 1 browser window, LOL...so I'll try to come back and edit this)...you can go to www.suntimes.com if you like...

mgtgcc

03-03-2005, 06:13 PM

WHITE PERSON'S REVIEW OF DIARY................... (http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46774)

This may provide some answers. HTH

morena23

03-03-2005, 06:35 PM

The movie sucked to me, and I'm black.......

Ameka

03-03-2005, 06:37 PM

Roger Ebert is married to a black woman. So I don't think its racist. Just an opinion. Thats what he is paid to do. Give an opinion.

mama-mia

03-03-2005, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Ameka@Mar 3 2005, 10:37 AM
Roger Ebert is married to a black woman. So I don't think its racist. Just an opinion. Thats what he is paid to do. Give an opinion.

742771

Yep that's what I was about to type!

peculiar1

03-03-2005, 06:41 PM

I haven't seen the movie yet, but it seems that you would have to have knowledge of the plays to appreciate the movies. It's an ongoing thing.

rozlips

03-03-2005, 06:49 PM

Here's a link to the review. Try as I might I can't find anything racist about it. He seems cool with everything except Madea, which is not surprising.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.d...EVIEWS/50214001 (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050224/REVIEWS/50214001)

BTW, you can be married to a person of another race and still be racist against that race. Happens all the time.

Ameka

03-03-2005, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by rozlips@Mar 3 2005, 06:49 PM
Here's a link to the review. Try as I might I can't find anything racist about it. He seems cool with everything except Madea, which is not surprising.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.d...EVIEWS/50214001 (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050224/REVIEWS/50214001)

BTW, you can be married to a person of another race and still be racist against that race. Happens all the time.

742787

Don't agree, but thats a while nother thread. No need to get off topic.

rozlips

03-03-2005, 06:57 PM

Here's a link to his response to the criticism and charges of racism.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.d...ESSAYS/50301001 (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/ESSAYS/50301001)

And no, he doesn't mention his black wife in his response.

ashrob123

03-03-2005, 07:00 PM

I quit listening to his reviews on Black movies years ago because I have always thought that the fact that he's married to a black woman has colored his reviews in a way that seem mighty peculiar. Essentially, in my opinion, he's much more lax with his critique of black movies than other movies in general. I hardly ever find any black movie that he likes to my liking (I think the last one was Love Jones).

So, is he racist just because even he can identify foolishness and call it out? Nope. I'm glad and surprised that he had the balls to do it.

charli

03-03-2005, 07:16 PM

BTW, you can be married to a person of another race and still be racist against that race. Happens all the time.

I agree.

southerncurl

03-03-2005, 07:19 PM

He just told the truth.
THe movie is bad.
I dont care if its a black movie, I like GOOD movies whoever made it doesnt matter.

Why should people support a bad product just because black folks made it??
Roger Ebert doesnt ever mention his black wife becacause there is no reason too, he shouldnt have to use his marriage to explain that he isnt racist, that would be extremly tacky, equivelant to the white folks who say "some of my best freinds are black"
nobody is mentioning all the horrendous "white movies" that he gives a thumbs down too...does that make him a race traitor?...thats crazy, he is just doing his job.

I remember years ago I noticed he did give some black movies good reviews when they really werent that worthy, this all started happening around the time he got married, Im thinking maybe she explained to him that these (at the time) low budget, flawed black movies needed some encouragement from him to get the attention from mainstream america so these up and coming directors, writers and actors could get the publicity and therefore financial backing that they need.
His attitude towards black movies did change a lot and I think it was a good change...

southerncurl

03-03-2005, 07:20 PM

Barklel

03-03-2005, 07:24 PM

I actually have never saw any other Tyler Perry plays.... I had pre-judges the movie..... I wasn't going to see it because I thought it was a little ghetto for my taste. My mother wanted to go, so I went w/ her..... LOVED THE MOVIE. There's something for everybody in there.... I shed a lot of tears that night too. I thought it was excellent..... Actually it was the # 1 movie playing last weekend... so some people mus have liked it.

thunderstorm

03-03-2005, 07:28 PM

well, i have seen one of the plays.

i saw the movie last weekend.

i think that there were too many things going on in the movie.

i think his talent and comedy can be better appreciated in skit/play performances.

i think the movie was more of a drama than a romance, and certainly not a comedy. it could have been developed without any of tyler perry's characters. it still wouldn't have been a great movie, in my opinion.

overall, his presense certainly didn't make the movie a hit, to me.

at some points, it seemed like his character was coming across too strongly with almost predictable quips just to compensate for the way a scene was dragging along.

speaking of dragging along, am i the only one who thought this was a long a.ss movie? if a movie's going to be long, it needs to be good and the scenes need to have good transition. the court scene and jail scene, to me, weren't funny or important to the movie. it was an opportunity for him to display some weak humor. i don't think the other woman ever needed to be seen to convey the effect of infidelity and being jilted. and the confrontation between madea and the other woman was weak.

can you tell that i didn't like this movie?

tsaraya29

03-03-2005, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by southerncurl@Mar 3 2005, 01:20 PM
He just told the truth.
THe movie is bad.
I dont care if its a black movie, I like GOOD movies whoever made it doesnt matter.

Why should people support a bad product just because black folks made it??
Roger Ebert doesnt ever mention his black wife becacause there is no reason too, he shouldnt have to use his marriage to explain that he isnt racist, that would be extremly tacky, equivelant to the white folks who say "some of my best freinds are black"
nobody is mentioning all the horrendous "white movies" that he gives a thumbs down too...does that make him a race traitor?...thats crazy, he is just doing his job.

742856

ITA . You can't play the race card everytime someone disagrees. It's like crying wolf. A lot of "black" movies stunk and I would never support them regardless if the producers, actor or whoever was getting profits from it. Remember Soul Plane and White Chicks??? <<<<cringes at the thought>>>>>

ScoobyGurl

03-03-2005, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by southerncurl@Mar 3 2005, 02:19 PM
He just told the truth.
THe movie is bad.
I dont care if its a black movie, I like GOOD movies whoever made it doesnt matter.

Why should people support a bad product just because black folks made it??
Roger Ebert doesnt ever mention his black wife becacause there is no reason too, he shouldnt have to use his marriage to explain that he isnt racist, that would be extremly tacky, equivelant to the white folks who say "some of my best freinds are black"
nobody is mentioning all the horrendous "white movies" that he gives a thumbs down too...does that make him a race traitor?...thats crazy, he is just doing his job.

I remember years ago I noticed he did give some black movies good reviews when they really werent that worthy, this all started happening around the time he got married, Im thinking maybe she explained to him that these (at the time) low budget, flawed black movies needed some encouragement from him to get the attention from mainstream america so these up and coming directors, writers and actors could get the publicity and therefore financial backing that they need.
His attitude towards black movies did change a lot and I think it was a good change...

742855

Exactly. The movie is just bad hands down. Why jump on him simply b/c it's a bacl production? He loved Ray. He loved Malcolm X. They were Black productions too. People really need to learn how and when to bring out the race card. :rolleyes:

NLight1

03-03-2005, 10:03 PM

I haven't seen the movie yet, but it seems that you would have to have knowledge of the plays to appreciate the movies. It's an ongoing thing.
No, having knowledge of his plays doesn't mean you are automatically going to like his movie. I saw a play of his, didn't like it, won't support the movie. The only thing ongoing for me is the dislike of seeing the same tired azz themes and characters for black movies :dunno:

rozlips

03-03-2005, 10:12 PM

Roger Ebert doesnt ever mention his black wife becacause there is no reason too, he shouldnt have to use his marriage to explain that he isnt racist, that would be extremly tacky, equivelant to the white folks who say "some of my best freinds are black"

I know, but I held my breath the whole hoping he wouldn't go there.

I remember years ago I noticed he did give some black movies good reviews when they really werent that worthy, this all started happening around the time he got married, Im thinking maybe she explained to him that these (at the time) low budget, flawed black movies needed some encouragement from him to get the attention from mainstream america so these up and coming directors, writers and actors could get the publicity and therefore financial backing that they need.
His attitude towards black movies did change a lot and I think it was a good change...

Interesting theory. I can see where that would happen. I know my dh walked out of one of the new Star Wars prequels because of the Jar Jar Binks character. I doubt he'd have done that before he met me.

Peaches

03-03-2005, 11:24 PM

They are an attractive couple. I believe that she is an attorney.

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/american_film_institute/afi_lifetime_achievement_award_2004_photos/roger_ebert/afi2004g.jpg

I think that he's very fair. He understands the backlash that comes with the territory of critiquing black films. He seems to have a good handle on racism and doesn't seem to display that 'white liberal guilt' that some white folks do.

Alas1119

03-03-2005, 11:51 PM

I don't see anything racist about his critique of this movie.

cher79

03-04-2005, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by mgtgcc@Mar 3 2005, 11:13 AM
WHITE PERSON'S REVIEW OF DIARY................... (http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46774)

This may provide some answers. HTH

742747

thanks for the link...I hadn't even read this and I just heard about the review today...

blackangel73

03-04-2005, 03:49 AM

I think that since we don't get represented onscreen (or behind the camera, for that matter) nearly as much as whites, we expect black projects to be all things to all people.

This isn't realistic of us. Our love of our people can sometimes blind us to the truth.....we've go some classics (think "Color Purple") and some, well, you know...... (think "Soul Plane.")

I went to the movie with my mom, expecting to dislike it because of the trailer. While some moments were pure buffoonery, so are some moments in white movies. (Ever seen an Adam Sandler flick?)

PrincessDrRe

03-04-2005, 03:57 AM

I still don't get how this movie was "buffoonery" yet many of the same people that "hate" this movie ......LOVE "In Living Color"....

I LOVE THEM BOTH - but I asked before and I will ask again (as the other thread was closed????) - what is the difference between the two?

nappylynn

03-04-2005, 04:02 AM

:smil3f9cf95099cff: why is it assumed that he is not racist just beacause he's married to a black woman? he could be subconsciously apoligizing for his racist attitude by marrying a black woman...

just my :2cents:

ScoobyGurl

03-04-2005, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by PrincessDrRe@Mar 3 2005, 10:57 PM
I still don't get how this movie was "buffoonery" yet many of the same people that "hate" this movie ......LOVE "In Living Color"....

I LOVE THEM BOTH - but I asked before and I will ask again (as the other thread was closed????) - what is the difference between the two?

743520

I think In Living Color was more satire than buffoonery. It was in the same order as Saturday Night Live and Mad TV. Madea isn't satire. It's just stupid.

caramelaggie

03-04-2005, 01:53 PM

I agree that saying jsut because he is married to a black woman does not mean that he is not racist. But I read his reveiw and it didnt seem racist to me. Looks like he didnt like Madea ( the grandmother ) in the movie. The man is entitled to his opinion, black movie or not.

zmurfz

03-04-2005, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Ameka@Mar 3 2005, 11:37 AM
Roger Ebert is married to a black woman. So I don't think its racist. Just an opinion. Thats what he is paid to do. Give an opinion.

742771

I agree too with caramelagee

Who said being married to the another race makes you 'not racist? Sometimes it actually means you may have more issues with race but that is another thread :icon_headshake:

I think Roger is very fair with all his movie critics whether you agree with him or not.

scurrie

03-05-2005, 12:07 AM

I wouldn't see the movie just for the title & the trailer alone. I'm sorry...I'm usually right about these things. black directors need to be more creative w/ these titles & how many times can we see a movie w/ a black man dressed as a woman... :icon_headshake:

PrincessDrRe

03-05-2005, 04:30 AM

How many times can we see white people (men) dressed up as women?

Tootsie.....

Mrs. Doubtfire.....

To Wong Foo..... (had a black one too!)

Still questioning - What makes the buffoonery - the men dressing as women? If that is the case then Jamie Foxx was doing the "buffoon" when he did Wanda on "In Living Color"....

Yall gotta break down the differences to me....

PrincessDrRe

03-05-2005, 04:43 AM

Is it the singing and dancing that makes buffoonery? Because Cephus (sp?) and Reecie (sp?) did that also on "In Living Color"....

rozlips

03-05-2005, 04:48 AM

There's a difference between a man playing a man dressing as a woman, and a man playing A WOMAN.

Going back to Some Like it Hot, Tootsie and all the rest, the audience is in on the joke. We see these men go through the transformation into being a woman. Hose, padding, high heels, the works. In that context the joke is on them because these men aren't playing women, they're playing men dressing as women.

For some reason black men tend to PLAY black women, which is a totally different concept. And not only do they play black women, they overblown, stereotypical, obnoxious black women. In their renditions the joke is on the black women. When you look at those other movies you don't get the sense that anyone is making fun of women, but of the man playing the woman. That's not the case with Shanaynay, et al. And while none of these guys make a particularly attractive woman, they're not overblown and over the top like Madea. There's no mockery of womanhood.

In the black films you don't see the transition into a woman. It makes it seem that a black man's transformation into a woman is effortless. There's no struggle there as shown in these other films. The audience is not in on the joke. This is presented as an actual black woman. I've never seen it done this way in anything but a black movie or tv show and I've often wondered why. As I've said before, I'm not sure if it's a slight on black manhood or black womanhood (I suspect the latter) but it's distasteful to me.

ETA, can't comment on Jamie Foxx on ILC, I never watched the show. The Wayans turned my stomach early on and I can't abide anything they're in.

subbrock

03-05-2005, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by mama-mia@Mar 3 2005, 01:40 PM
Yep that's what I was about to type!

742774

just because youre married to someone black doesnt mean youre not a racist. ive seen many self hating black people marry white people because they loathe being black and black people.

im not saying ebert is a racist i just wanted to throw that out there. im sorry if someone already said something about that because i didnt read all the posts yet, please forgive.

a white-ish woman at work said that she saw it and liked it alot!

sweetcocoa24

03-05-2005, 04:11 PM

now i saw the play and all these bad reviews got me afraid to spend my money..lol...i read the review and i think he's just being honest and fair like others have said. I loved the play but i had a feeling making a movie out of it wouldnt be a good thing and it seems like its shaping about to be that way...and ebert was just being honest madea is the comic relief and u either love her or hate her apparently ebert hated her lol

Blackstar

03-05-2005, 04:44 PM

i've read the review. there's nothing racist about it. he says it could have been a good movie, because it makes some points, but the grandma character ruined the plot and the movie's substance. it seemed like a balanced and analytical review. he feels that it could have been a good movie, but it kept being attacked by this grandma with a chainsaw. it sounds from reading the review that for a few minutes u r watching a well-thought out movie and then wham!!!! the director shoots himself metaphorically in the foot.

the trailers are running in norway now, and just by the trailer and the title 'diary of a mad black woman', i cringed.

black movies can't always be about buffonery. there needs to be a wider range of subjects or else we are just stereotyping ourselves.

i've heard a lot about th emovie and when it comes out here, i won't be going to see it.

slapstick, loud comedians such as adam sandler, jim carrey, martin lawrence, chris tucker, aren't my thing.

kinkykhick

03-05-2005, 05:53 PM

I agree with this. I always say to my (Black) SO, Roger Ebert gives us too much credit where credit IS NOT due.

Originally posted by ashrob123@Mar 3 2005, 12:00 PM
I quit listening to his reviews on Black movies years ago because I have always thought that the fact that he's married to a black woman has colored his reviews in a way that seem mighty peculiar. Essentially, in my opinion, he's much more lax with his critique of black movies than other movies in general. I hardly ever find any black movie that he likes to my liking (I think the last one was Love Jones).

742812

I also believe you can be racist against Blacks and be married to one.

I hate when Black men dress up and act out the part of a Black women, I do feel it makes a mockery of Black womenhood and is a cheap laugh.

lynne

03-06-2005, 02:18 AM

I really don't see anything even remotely racist about his review. I think he was being honest. I have watched him for as long as I can remember and he has never displayed any racist views...ever! As a matter of fact I do remember him mentioning quite frequently that "Spike Lee" is one of the greatest directors of ALL time" and he has loved ALL of his movies.

LadyDrizzle

03-06-2005, 08:05 AM

I don't read reviews on movies books or anything like that. I just make my own review. So I don't have anything to add to whether he was being racist or not but just from what I've read and thinking about things I don't think anything anyone has said about the movie has been racist just opinions.

As far as the play vs. the movie, I've seen a few of the plays and loved them all. They have nice messages to share. The movie on the other hand I thought was dumb. There was too much added to it and it wasn't as funny. I did however like the part of revenge. She plays the crazy roll better than the actress in the play.

napturallyme

03-06-2005, 04:39 PM

I don't think he's a racist. When it comes to black movies, I don't listen to the critics anyway. I saw the movie yesterday and enjoyed it. Who cares what he thinks

napturallyme

03-06-2005, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by charli@Mar 3 2005, 02:16 PM
I agree.

742847

I agree as well, worked with one before

gypsyroze

03-08-2005, 02:47 PM

I don't think it was racist. I can definitely understand the quote about Bell Hooks saying that just because something is black doesn't mean that it should be celebrated. I can't tell you how many times i have heard statements about blacks not being black enough, because they don't embraced all things black and every stereotype that personifies blacks. He didn't enjoy, so what.

Gyroscope

03-10-2005, 12:55 AM

First and foremost I dont need to read Ebert's review cuz.......

I JUST SAW THE MOVIE AND IT WAS THE WORST MOVIE I'VE SEEN IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS!

I've really been waiting to say that for the last couple of hours or so.

Here's the thing, I shouldn't have to see the play to "get" the movie. This isn't a sequel...it's the onscreen version of a play. But unlike plays a movie needs to have some depth and continuity to it. Meaning give me some background on the lives of the central players involved. Secondly, don't throw several different storylines and mash them together to make a film.....you're going to leave something out. This film had sooo many flaws, the major one being that the humor of Madea does not come off well on screen.

Listen, this movie was going to be a financial success regardless of how good the movie was because there was a built in audience going into the damn thing. Anybody who saw and enjoyed the plays would see it, black people in general who see every black film would go see it, and black women who wanted to see a woman take out a her frustrations on a less than compentent black man would see this movie. I mean damn...Nipsey Russel could have played the love interest and it still would have made doe!

Here's my problem....because this movie made so much money...the only black films that are going to hit the major markets are going to be similar to DOMBW if not complete clones. Shoot even I'm trying to brainstorm a play as I type this! If folks are going to spend they money on this....I need to get in!