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starchild
02-06-2003, 05:45 PM
Help me my fellow christians to understand the trinity. One day i get it, the next i don;t. I had always thought Jesus was the son of God, part of God. So, jesus is God,like the father? or are they separate? I was reading Mathew, Mark, and Luke and Jesus never said he was GOd. Could ya;ll help me please to understand.

LotsOfLocs
02-06-2003, 06:47 PM
I am not a Christian. I did go to Catholic school as a child. In school I was taught that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit were the same thing. There was no seperation. The trinity gets confusing because Christian religion explains if from a western view, that doesnt make much sense.


But I can help you understand the root of where the trinity concept comes from, Africa.

Ausar(Osirus) Father - Christianity's God
Auset(Isis) Mother-Christianity's Mary
Hru(Horus)Son- Christianity's Jesus
Nturu- spirits who are extentions of god- Christianity's Holy Spirit

In ancient Khemetic religion Ausar is the closet spirit to God. Ausar is like Perfection. Ausar married Auset. Ausar later died and went into the heavens. Auset became preganant with Hru by divine means. Ausar, Auset, and Het Hru are Nturu(extenstions of God) of Neter(God). They are all one of the same. There is nothing polytheistic about it. Look at your hand, your hand has fingers which are extensions. There are cells in your finger tips. If you were to look in one cell, there is a whole other world going on. But you see, one body houses are these different worlds. This is something the Western mind took a long time to grasp.

NaturalSkeeWee
02-06-2003, 06:55 PM
The Trinity may sound confusing but it isn't. For example in water you have three parts....Each part is different but is the same substance. Water can be a liquid, it can evaporate and become steam and water can be in solid form such as ice. God is three in one He is the Father (who knows all and is ominpresent) He is the Son (who came in the form of Jesus) and He is the Holy Spirit (who is the interpreter, comforter, guider). God saw how the world was going and wrapped himself in flesh and came to earth through the womb of Mary. Also on the Trinity read 1John 5:7 (that's the scripture where the group Trinitee 5:7 gets there name) Jesus infact did say he was God when he said I AM. In the old testment Moses asked God who should I say you are and he said I AM. (There are many references to this read Mark 14:62, John 6:35). Read Matthew 22:29-46.
HTH
:lilangel:

spacetygrss
02-06-2003, 07:21 PM
The Trinity may sound confusing but it isn't. For example in water you have three parts....Each part is different but is the same substance. Water can be a liquid, it can evaporate and become steam and water can be in solid form such as ice. God is three in one He is the Father (who knows all and is ominpresent) He is the Son (who came in the form of Jesus) and He is the Holy Spirit (who is the interpreter, comforter, guider). God saw how the world was going and wrapped himself in flesh and came to earth through the womb of Mary. Also on the Trinity read 1John 5:7 (that's the scripture where the group Trinitee 5:7 gets there name) Jesus infact did say he was God when he said I AM. In the old testment Moses asked God who should I say you are and he said I AM. (There are many references to this read Mark 14:62, John 6:35). Read Matthew 22:29-46.
HTH
:lilangel:

I agree with this.

Jesus is God incarnate, but He is also separate. If you read John 1:1 it says that "In the beginning there was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God. Jesus is the Word. Therefore, this passage is saying that Jesus was both with God in the beginning and actually was God in the beginning.

HTH[/b]

NaturalSkeeWee
02-06-2003, 07:54 PM
Thanks Spacetygrss for that scripture it was right on point.

spacetygrss
02-06-2003, 08:00 PM
Thanks Spacetygrss for that scripture it was right on point.

No problem. :)

starchild
02-06-2003, 09:27 PM
thanks guys. I guess it is hard because i am leaning to my own understanding. i pray that i can truly understand it in my spirit. I do know and understand the African roots of it . Echoes of the Darkland by Charles Finch explained that very well.

elleebeme5
02-07-2003, 02:28 PM
The trinity is a concept that is hard to grasp. On a simplified plane, we can look at ourselves. At one time, I am a daughter, a sister and an aunt. My role as daughter requires one type of behavior while my role as sister is totally different. My role as aunt evokes still another relationship. I fiercely love all of the people with whom I have those relationships but I am a different person to each one of them.

khamedra19
02-07-2003, 03:20 PM
You're right. Jesus never claimed to be god. It was during the Nicean Council that the creators of the modern day Bible decided what would be included and excluded from the text. It was then that the borrowed concept of the trinity (as LotsofLocs pointed out) was inserted into the Bible. Other issues decided at the council were the idea of Christ's divinity, the day of the Sabbath

If you want to get the root of the issue, religious dogma aside, then I would strongly advise that you do research on the ancient origins of the Holy Trinity and the Council of Nicea (in 325 and 785 AD). In matters in which one's spiritual development is at stake, I feel as though it's very important that we do our own research instead of give in to blind faith and institutions that want our membership because it means money for them. I think you're on the right track by having a questioning mind. Keep it up.

starchild
02-07-2003, 06:26 PM
Thank you Khamedra. I was thinking along those lines. I know that the Orthodox church did not accept that doctrine. See, that is one of the things that confuses me in my spiritual journey. I grew up in the church and never questioned it . I had always thought that Jesus and God was separate entities. I thoiught that jesus was who you prayed to, thus the meditator. Dunno, where can i find info about the Nicene Council?

LotsOfLocs
02-07-2003, 07:49 PM
Thank you Khamedra. I was thinking along those lines. I know that the Orthodox church did not accept that doctrine. See, that is one of the things that confuses me in my spiritual journey. I grew up in the church and never questioned it . I had always thought that Jesus and God was separate entities. I thoiught that jesus was who you prayed to, thus the meditator. Dunno, where can i find info about the Nicene Council?

Starchild, I just saw this book in a local bookstore about the Council. I'm actully going there this Sunday. I will try to remember and right down the title. Also, try to do a search on Amazon using the Council of Nicea as a keyword. Good Luck! :D

silvi
02-10-2003, 06:59 PM
StarChild - Trinity is a concept that theologians are still arguing about and is very difficult to understand and to explain.

God - Father
God - Son
God - Spirit

Starchild - Friend
Starchild - Lover
Starchild - Daughter

Starchild - mind
Starchild - body
Starchild - spirit

Sometimes you just have to have faith in a concept that you cannot wrap your brain around. I go through times when I have to rehash the whole trinity thing...

LotsOfLocs
02-10-2003, 07:10 PM
The Kaballah is also helpful in understanding the trinity because it uses the African Tree Of Life. White/Western historians dont understand or explain the trinity correctly. Simply, because the dont want to tell us that it comes from Africa. They also would have to admit that African religion is not polytheistic.

starchild
02-10-2003, 09:12 PM
Lots, could you ellaborate on the Kaballah please, and silva, thank you I am glad i am not alone. My best friend and i was talking about this and she believed as i did and her father is a minister. Talk about confusion!!!

LotsOfLocs
02-10-2003, 09:21 PM
Lots, could you ellaborate on the Kaballah please, and silva, thank you I am glad i am not alone. My best friend and i was talking about this and she believed as i did and her father is a minister. Talk about confusion!!!

The Kaballah uses the tree of life that explains how god, spirits, and angels are one. The Kaballah is much more African centered than the Bible. It has African Hebrew teachings. The Councel of Nicea did not touch the Kaballah. The bible does nothing to help you understand Gods many extensions. The Kaballah better explains this.

Inspired
02-11-2003, 05:05 PM
Lots, could you ellaborate on the Kaballah please, and silva, thank you I am glad i am not alone. My best friend and i was talking about this and she believed as i did and her father is a minister. Talk about confusion!!!

The Kaballah uses the tree of life that explains how god, spirits, and angels are one. The Kaballah is much more African centered than the Bible. It has African Hebrew teachings. The Councel of Nicea did not touch the Kaballah. The bible does nothing to help you understand Gods many extensions. The Kaballah better explains this.

And where do you find that? Is that one of those books that would fall under "For Library Use only". I find that during my research, people find this info. so sacred and it makes it almost inaccessible!!

LotsOfLocs
02-11-2003, 05:18 PM
Lots, could you ellaborate on the Kaballah please, and silva, thank you I am glad i am not alone. My best friend and i was talking about this and she believed as i did and her father is a minister. Talk about confusion!!!

The Kaballah uses the tree of life that explains how god, spirits, and angels are one. The Kaballah is much more African centered than the Bible. It has African Hebrew teachings. The Councel of Nicea did not touch the Kaballah. The bible does nothing to help you understand Gods many extensions. The Kaballah better explains this.

And where do you find that? Is that one of those books that would fall under "For Library Use only". I find that during my research, people find this info. so sacred and it makes it almost inaccessible!!

Near my job is a jewish bookstore near my job. The Kaballlah can be purchased online. Also you can do Kaballah tree of life research on the web. My tree of life research was easily excessible to me through my Khemetic way of life classes. The information is out there. Definetly check your African spirituality based book stores. Good Luck

Peace & Light

Maestradiva77
02-11-2003, 07:07 PM
The Trinity may sound confusing but it isn't. For example in water you have three parts....Each part is different but is the same substance. Water can be a liquid, it can evaporate and become steam and water can be in solid form such as ice. God is three in one He is the Father (who knows all and is ominpresent) He is the Son (who came in the form of Jesus) and He is the Holy Spirit (who is the interpreter, comforter, guider). God saw how the world was going and wrapped himself in flesh and came to earth through the womb of Mary. Also on the Trinity read 1John 5:7 (that's the scripture where the group Trinitee 5:7 gets there name) Jesus infact did say he was God when he said I AM. In the old testment Moses asked God who should I say you are and he said I AM. (There are many references to this read Mark 14:62, John 6:35). Read Matthew 22:29-46.
HTH
:lilangel:

Well said!

LotsOfLocs
02-14-2003, 02:50 PM
Thank you Khamedra. I was thinking along those lines. I know that the Orthodox church did not accept that doctrine. See, that is one of the things that confuses me in my spiritual journey. I grew up in the church and never questioned it . I had always thought that Jesus and God was separate entities. I thoiught that jesus was who you prayed to, thus the meditator. Dunno, where can i find info about the Nicene Council?

This book may be of some intrest, " The History of The Council of Nice: A World's Christian Convention A.D. 325: Life of Constantine" by Dean Dudly.