Visitation Rights

[easy2bnapptural?]

Okay ladies, I have two girls 7 and 9 who I am raising to be independent and make their own decisions. They are supposed to see their father every other weekend, but lately they haven't wanted to go. Once one of my children were with me and the other with him. I don't feel like they have to go if they don't want to and I allow them to make that decision. well, he's not happy with it and is taking it out on me. I have full custody of my children and even though child support is court ordered; I don't get it often. :realmad: anyway, he says that they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions because they are children. Children know where they want to be and with whom. and appartently they have seen him for who he really is; I do not speak bad about him to them or around them. So they are not making decisions based on me. This happens to be his weekend to have them and they don't want to go. So they told him that last night, and he says he has to think about it. That pissed me off. Secondly, I just found out this morning that I have death in the family and the children need to go with me. He's acting like I made that up and says that he will still be at the normal meeting place to get them. I, of course, said that they wouldn't be there and hung up. :mad: How could he be so insensitive. I feel like he is doing this because I am taking him to court for child support. actually, I do know this. He has said himself that everytime I take him to court he will do something to get back at me. Just wish I had that recorded.

So, he's threatned to take me to court. I feel that I am right, unfortunately I can't afford a lawyer. I just need to know am I wrong and what would you do under similar circumstances. I'm not happy about any of this and don't need the extra stress right now.

[delightfulflame]

Why is it that the girls don't want to see him? Do you suspect abuse? If not, then are they feeding off the negativity that you feel for him?

In my opinion, as long as the girls are not in harms way, they should be made to spend their visitation time with their father. To me they are too young to make decisions like those. If, as teenagers, they don't want to go then I totally understand that. But being as young as they are, I bet they are feeding off the stressed relationship that you and him have...kindof pledging their loyalty to you. If you don't want to be the bad guy and make them go, then blame it on the judge. Trust me, these girls will need a loving, strong relationship with their father as they get older. Studies have shown that father's have more influence over daughter's self esteem issues than mothers. I would also advise you to keep them out of the loop regarding problems between you and him. Remember that when you speak negatively of him, you are speaking negatively of them as well.

I hope this helps. I have been exactly where those girls are sitting right now, and I wish things had been handled differently for me.

[easy2bnapptural?]

I don't expect them to be loyal to me in that way. On several occasions I've made them go and they don't seem happy about that at all. They don't hear and have never heard me speak negatively about him. Their reasons for not wanting to go is they say he stays in the bed when they are around. They are forced to sit in one room while he sleeps. I am not one of those mothers you may be thinking of. So they are not feeding off any negative feelings from me.

[natkingcurl]

Since you've ruled out abuse, and they've said that they are just bored sitting in one room, have you confronted their father and told him how the girls feel about their visitation with him? Maybe he thinks that there's nothing wrong with sleeping while they entertain themselves in another room. It's sad because as infrequently as he sees them, you'd think he'd want to make the most of his visits with them.

Anyway, to answer your question. No. As hard as it is to hear. I do not think they should decide when or if they want to see him. He is their father. And he's entitled to be in their lives (as long as he's not abusing them), no matter what kind of relationship the two of you have with each other.

Look at it this way. If you were all living as a family unit, you wouldn't give your daughters the liberty to tell their father what they will and will not do, would you? You would expect them to respect him and follow orders, right?

Well, as difficult as it may be, since you aren't a couple anymore, you still have to instill in your daughters that they must respect their father.

His idea of parenting isn't your idea, and will probably never be. But, unless you can prove neglect or abuse on his part, them sitting around the house being bored, doesn't seem like cause enough for you to let them decide that they will go against their father's wishes.

If you suspect that he's conducting his time with them like this on purpose, to spite you, then send games that your girls can play with each other to pass the time. Send their homework, books, crafts, anything fun and constructive that will take the boredom of a "sleepy dad" away.

I hope things work out.

I've edited this to add that if your girls witnessed him being abusive to you, and they are afraid of him, then that would make me change my mind. They shouldn't be forced into visitation with a parent that they are afraid of, even if he never directly hurt them. Their wishes should be respected in that instance, I think.

[Leecee]

Yeah, I agree that they children should still go see him-- that's if they're not in any danger or being abused. I mean, if you wanted to go somewhere with the girls and they told you no, I'm sure you wouldn't accept that.

I just think you need talk to the girls about being honest with their father and tell him how they feel. Or maybe you can talk to their Dad-- if that's possible.

[happilynappy]

If any abuse is involved then that needs to be brought to the attention of the judge when he takes you to court. Now, they need to have a relationship with their dad. They don't need to be making decisions as to whether or not they want to see their dad or not. That is an important relationship that needs to be formed and if not, it will hinder who they are as women. I am a witness to that! Have you discussed with them why they don't want to go? They don't necessarily have to be a witness to issues that you and their father have with each other; kids can sense when something isn't right - communicated or not! You guys need to at least be cordial for the sake of the kids. Let the court settle the issue of his nonpayment of child support. You talk to your girls about the importance of their relationship with their dad and let them know while they may not want to spend time with him, it is vital that they do. My stepdaughter's mom decided one year to let my "step" daughter make the decision on whether she wanted to come or not, and my husband decided right then to get visitation rights and guess what??? We have her during the summer, christmas, and spring break. During this time child support stops, and she pays for her to come here. He pays child support faithfully and does extra, so she was just being spiteful. She didn't ask her if she wanted to come but worded it like this ---- You don't want to go do you? That is not right! Every parent has a right to have a relationship with their child.

[strawwberryz]

Originally posted by delightfulflame@Aug 20 2003, 12:48 PM
In my opinion, as long as the girls are not in harms way, they should be made to spend their visitation time with their father. To me they are too young to make decisions like those. If, as teenagers, they don't want to go then I totally understand that. But being as young as they are, I bet they are feeding off the stressed relationship that you and him have...kind of pledging their loyalty to you. If you don't want to be the bad guy and make them go, then blame it on the judge. Trust me, these girls will need a loving, strong relationship with their father as they get older. Studies have shown that father's have more influence over daughter's self esteem issues than mothers. I would also advise you to keep them out of the loop regarding problems between you and him. Remember that when you speak negatively of him, you are speaking negatively of them as well.

I hope this helps. I have been exactly where those girls are sitting right now, and I wish things had been handled differently for me.
Agreeing completely with the above.

Their dad needs to get it together as well. Stressing you does not help the situation. Kids have a way of sensing what is going on btwn their parents and sort of feeling the need, in their own way of fixing things. It really does not matter whose fault it is but how the child percieves things.

To avoid later issues, hostilities and resentments of both of you, keep the kids out of it. Assure them that you are happy with them being at their dad's. You may not be saying anything negative but they get the vibes and attitudes quick. Keep reassuring them cauz their needs of course comes first and they are too young to make such big decisions (independent or not) that will affect them forever.