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lalyn
11-01-2003, 05:00 PM
O.k. I was in Wal-Mart the other day, and this white woman kept looking at me. She finally came up to me, and said "You have very pretty hair." I told her thank you, and started to walk away. Then she said, "Can I ask you something?" I was said yes. Then she said "Why do most black women have striaght thin hair, and you have pretty thick tight curls?" I told her that I don't use chemicals in my hair, also known as relaxers. Then she says, "So black women don't have naturally straight thin hair?" I told her no. Then she was like "Why would they make their hair look like that?" I told her that was a good question, and she should ask one the next time she sees them. Then I asked her, do you use chemicals? She said "No, but I've colored my hair once or twice, why?" I told her because her hair looked thin, and most white women have thick hair. She gave me a dirty look, and I just smiled at her and walked away.
I was thinking about it, and I was wondering do all white people think black women have naturally straight thin, hair? I was upset. Has anyone else experienced something like this? Are some white people that clueless, if they are no wonder they all believe what Oprah says about our hair?

honeychild
11-01-2003, 05:06 PM
i am LMAO @ your response to her abt 'most white women.' hee hee.

she sounded honestly clueless. i don't know if most white people are that clueless about us. they certainly could be, but i don't know most white people, so who am i to say... :)

KhymFree
11-01-2003, 05:24 PM
wow that was kinda harsh. i've found from the ones i talked to they honestly don't know. if they approach me in a nice way, i respond nicely to them. she was probably just clueless. she also probably seen the see through thin perms that some Black women have and wondered how your hair could be so nice and thick. most of them are just clueless when it comes to anything that isn't white.

PenCurls
11-01-2003, 05:26 PM
I can't speak for white people, but in my experiences with them, they do seem clueless about our hair. I mean, REALLY CLUELESS & I guess you can't fault them if they have no black friends. I think most whites live amongst themselves & though they may work with us, that's about as far as their experience with us goes. So how are they to know about our hair? I think a lot of them form their opinions of blacks based on what they see on TV (most of which is highly unfavorable). But the few times I've had a white person question me about "black stuff" & they seemed sincere, I've been polite about it.

napster
11-01-2003, 05:43 PM
I 'll agree with Pencurls.
Before my husband and i got married,(he's white)he was under the impression black women had straight hair like white women,just not as thick.
When we got married and i eventually did the big chop,he was fascinated with my hair.LOL!!He asked me sooo many questions about it!!
Why i had been straightening it instead of leaving it natural,why ALL black women on tv had straight hair,etc etc.
:d) Anyways,he's much more educated now.
:-) One day at church,he told a black lady(a member of the church) to stop straightening her hair cos it was falling off and that she was going to be bald soon!!! :huh :shock :huh gosh!!was i embarassed!!She took offense( :huh i would have too if someone told me that)He had to apologise ,he said he was just trying to be helpful!!!

My mom in-law,her sisters,my sister's in-law all wanted to know about black hair after my big chop.LOL!!

lalyn
11-01-2003, 05:46 PM
I wasn't mad at her. The thing is, I know she has seen a black man before, and most do not relax their hair. I also know a lot of black women who have nice relaxed hair. I just felt she was 50/50. Clueless/and a smart a$$. I guess, just growing up in a racist town makes it easy for me to spot b.s. when I see it. I don't play that stuff.

PenCurls
11-01-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 01:46 PM
The thing is, I know she has seen a black man before, and most do not relax their hair.
I know this is going to sound STUPID but someone posted before about someone white noticing this & still thinking that although they've seen black men with kinky hair, they still thought black women had straight hair. I know it doesn't make sense, but that's how clueless some of them are...unfortunately.

Papillion
11-01-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 10:00 AM
O.k. I was in Wal-Mart the other day, and this white woman kept looking at me. She finally came up to me, and said "You have very pretty hair." I told her thank you, and started to walk away. Then she said, "Can I ask you something?" I was said yes. Then she said "Why do most black women have striaght thin hair, and you have pretty thick tight curls?" I told her that I don't use chemicals in my hair, also known as relaxers. Then she says, "So black women don't have naturally straight thin hair?" I told her no. Then she was like "Why would they make their hair look like that?" I told her that was a good question, and she should ask one the next time she sees them. Then I asked her, do you use chemicals? She said "No, but I've colored my hair once or twice, why?" I told her because her hair looked thin, and most white women have thick hair. She gave me a dirty look, and I just smiled at her and walked away.
I was thinking about it, and I was wondering do all white people think black women have naturally straight thin, hair? I was upset. Has anyone else experienced something like this? Are some white people that clueless, if they are no wonder they all believe what Oprah says about our hair?
:app

That was priceless!!!

I have found that many white women, although usually extremely ignorant about Black folk's hair, are usually curious to the point of being rude with just a bit of maliciousness sprinkled in.

Many of the white women I have encountered, usually not personal acquaintences, have made it a point to point out that Black people's hair is different, and to point it out in a way that it like pointing out the spots on an odd animal or something.

I just cannot abide rudeness and I say she got what whe deserved!
:-)

lalyn
11-01-2003, 06:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don't know about how beautiful our natural hair is.

Medusa Negrita
11-01-2003, 06:19 PM
I have no sympathy for white folks and their supposed cluelessness. They basically (their ancestors) invented this shyte we go today about our hair not being the same as their and thusly ours being thought of as 'bad' and now they got the nerve to act ignorant. I am not saying that they aren't truly ignorant of our hair, but that it's real 'convenient' to be ignorant of something that they created (which our our and everyone else's mindset about 'our' hair).

Tori
11-01-2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 02:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don't know about how beautiful our natural hair is.
And it's sadder that most black people don't know about how beautiful their natural hair is.
How can we expect white people to know when so many of us don't!!!! :mad I am so tired of worrying about what white people think, what they know or don't know. I guarantee you, that if more black people knew, then more white people would too, naturally.

naturalsystah
11-01-2003, 06:41 PM
Broken, thin, limp permed hair is so common though. A friend of mine, a Black man, told me that when he was much younger he thought our hair naturally became like that after a certain age, he didn't know about hot combs and perming until he was in his mid teens.

naturalsystah
11-01-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 07:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don't know about how beautiful our natural hair is.
True. It's even worse that a lot of Black people still don't even know.

wildkiki
11-01-2003, 07:03 PM
I dunno ,but I did think u were unecessarily rude

Natalie
11-01-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 11:00 AM
I was thinking about it, and I was wondering do all white people think black women have naturally straight thin, hair? I was upset. Has anyone else experienced something like this? Are some white people that clueless, if they are no wonder they all believe what Oprah says about our hair?
I think it depends on whether they have black friends. My white colleagues used to be amazed that one day my hair was short, then the next i was sporting long braids. One believed that my hair grew overnight or something. :rolleyes But don't be fooled, once I popped into a white hairdressers and I too was amazed to see a white girl getting hair extensions being glued into her hair, :shock so they do it too.

Most of my white friends don't even remember what their natural hair colour is! It kind of works both ways. But in my opinion, it is how much they want to know/be educated in black hair.

LotsOfLocs
11-01-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 06:00 PM
Then I asked her, do you use chemicals? She said "No, but I've colored my hair once or twice, why?" I told her because her hair looked thin, and most white women have thick hair. She gave me a dirty look, and I just smiled at her and walked away.

:thumbsup Damn, that was a good one. They so intrested in Black affairs do your on research. I get tired of that spectacle crap! We dont go up to them asking dumb questions.

LBellatrix
11-01-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Tori+Nov 1 2003, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tori @ Nov 1 2003, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 02:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don&#39;t know about how beautiful our natural hair is.
And it&#39;s sadder that most black people don&#39;t know about how beautiful their natural hair is.
How can we expect white people to know when so many of us don&#39;t!!!! :mad I am so tired of worrying about what white people think, what they know or don&#39;t know. I guarantee you, that if more black people knew, then more white people would too, naturally. [/b][/quote]
:app

That&#39;s it right there.

People KILL me worrying about white folks. Folk act like it&#39;s still 1863 or something. Who gives a f*** what they think?

And on the flip side, who gives a f*** what black folks think when they tell you "You need to get a relaxer" or some such sh**?

If more BLACK folks got educated, and started wearing their own natural hair proudly instead of tiptoeing around like slavery just ended, we might have less of these kinds of incidents. LBell isn&#39;t holding her breath

jacura
11-01-2003, 07:53 PM
lalyn...you ALRIGHT WITH ME!!! ^5

freelocks
11-01-2003, 08:22 PM
Hmmmm, the things people "don&#39;t know" these days.

Shanna
11-01-2003, 08:40 PM
And it&#39;s sadder that most black people don&#39;t know about how beautiful their natural hair is.
How can we expect white people to know when so many of us don&#39;t!!!! I am so tired of worrying about what white people think, what they know or don&#39;t know. I guarantee you, that if more black people knew, then more white people would too, naturally.

ITA :app

LikeWhoa
11-01-2003, 09:03 PM
Well,
My main question when it comes to White&#39;s being "clueless" about Black women&#39;s hair is -- why would they believe that Black women have a significantly different texture of hair naturally than Black men? Most Black men have natural hair, and a simple comparison should lead them to the conclusion that Black women do something to alter their hair.

If they thought hard enough about it, it would come to them. :doh

sunnysmile751
11-01-2003, 09:47 PM
Let&#39;s not forget that on the old board we had a post in which black children themselves didn&#39;t know what nappy hair looked like, even though I&#39;m sure they see guys with natural hair, and the hair that grows out of their own head is nappy before they but a perm in it. So that this white woman didn&#39;t know that a black woman&#39;s hair is naturally curly I can understand. I know girls who from the time one nappy hair sprouts itself on their head the slap a perm in to cover it up. I don&#39;t know all about white women&#39;s hair practices and I don&#39;t expect them to know about mine.

On the flip side, I wouldn&#39;t go up to a random white person and ask them about their hair unless I was giving a compliment. My white hair questions are reserved for my white friends, lol. :)

charli
11-01-2003, 11:12 PM
I think white women with very curly or kinky hair are not clueless. When I was relaxed a white girl at work came up to me and asked me what kind of relaxer I used. I had to do a double take. Like, what you know about a relaxer. Turns out she had rather kinky hair and relaxed her hair too.

I think straight haired white women can be very clueless and don&#39;t understand the accompanying rain avoidance, reluctance to swim and go to the beach, being in the shop dang near all day.

But I will be the dissenting opinion because I DO care that white people be properly educated about black hair when the opportunity arises. Because white people still dominate the decision makers in media and in corporations. We are making great inroads with getting our skin color and physical features celebrated by the media and consequently other races. But sadly, most prominent black women still walk around with a perm or weave. I care about that because once (some) white people start to understand what the chemical and thermal straightening does over time, then someone with natural hair will be looked at as "ideal" rather than militant or bucking the trend.

And as much as I hate to say this, the majority of black people will not accept our own natural texture until white people accept it first. It&#39;s sad, and it&#39;s an unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe it. Once white people start saying that it&#39;s beautiful and you see it on television, in movies and on magazine covers, then, you know what, a lot of "impressionable" black people will follow suit, and especially impressionable adolescent girls. And once the images of beautiful natural women become more mainstream, then young black boys will come around and black men will come around and get off the whole 30inch weave with blonde highlights thing.

Like it or not, many black women are relaxed BECAUSE they fear what white people will think. The fear whether they can get a job or get promoted, they fear whether they will be accepted in the workplace or academia. They don&#39;t want to sport even the tiniest bit of naps because they feel white people will look at them as being inferior because of it. So, I think educating her was a step in the right direction, whether she might have been slightly critical or not. None of us can know how she came across because we were not there. But the more white people understand that most black women don&#39;t "naturally" look like that, the better they will understand how unnatural that is and how natural we are and less ostracizing of the naps because we don&#39;t look "how we should."

I read once that 80% of black women relax. Add to that the percentage that press faithfully and you see that very few of us with naturally nappy hair are walking around with it in it&#39;s normal state. I think it&#39;s easy for white people to think that is how it is. And think there is something wrong with hair that won&#39;t hang straight like "everybody else&#39;s."

carrolina
11-01-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by PenCurls+Nov 1 2003, 10:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PenCurls @ Nov 1 2003, 10:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 01:46 PM
The thing is, I know she has seen a black man before, and most do not relax their hair.
I know this is going to sound STUPID but someone posted before about someone white noticing this & still thinking that although they&#39;ve seen black men with kinky hair, they still thought black women had straight hair. I know it doesn&#39;t make sense, but that&#39;s how clueless some of them are...unfortunately. [/b][/quote]
ive encountered this also. some of them truly believe that our men&#39;s hair is different from our&#39;s. i guess that if i was from another group it&#39;d only be natural to come to that conclusion if i wasnt around too many black folk. all the black girls/teachers i knew had straight hair aaalll the time, unless it was in braids. and after they took the braids out, they wouldn&#39;t come back to school until it was straight again. it would seem like a good amount of black women just grow thin, unhealthy hair, because the guys had these long cornrows and big ole fro&#39;s all the time lol. sad. if non-black people are sincerely curious, i have no problem with their questions. otherwise... (box

lalyn
11-01-2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by wildkiki@Nov 1 2003, 08:03 PM
I dunno ,but I did think u were unecessarily rude
It&#39;s o.k. if you think I was being unecessarily rude, but too me she came off more rude than clueless. It&#39;s like saying you would be pretty if it wasn&#39;t for your face. That&#39;s not a compliment, and I don&#39;t think she was as dumb as she was acting. It&#39;s true not a lot of black people know how beautiful their natural hair is, and as someone else said how can we expect white people to. However, IMO I know most black women know they have a coily texture without a relaxer in their hair, or they wouldn&#39;t be like "Girl I got to get me a relaxer my roots are showing."
I don&#39;t care what anyone thinks about me white or black, I was just wondering if most white people view black womens hair in that way, because it&#39;s sad that a lot of black women are being perceived like that.
I am who I am, and I can&#39;t please everyone, so I guess I&#39;ll please myself.

undrea
11-02-2003, 12:06 AM
I don&#39;t think that you were being rude lalyn. I&#39;m sure you could tell whether this lady was being sarcastic or if she really was clueless. It&#39;s sad that some white people do understand our hair and some of us don&#39;t even understand it and appreciate it ourselves. :cry:

jennifer ^v^
11-02-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by charli@Nov 1 2003, 07:12 PM
And as much as I hate to say this, the majority of black people will not accept our own natural texture until white people accept it first. It&#39;s sad, and it&#39;s an unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe it. Once white people start saying that it&#39;s beautiful and you see it on television, in movies and on magazine covers, then, you know what, a lot of "impressionable" black people will follow suit, and especially impressionable adolescent girls. And once the images of beautiful natural women become more mainstream, then young black boys will come around and black men will come around and get off the whole 30inch weave with blonde highlights thing.


I completely agree with you.

The idea of black people appreciating and respecting their own features only after white america gives them the ok to do so...that seems just as backward as blacks hating themselves because white america told them to. Why do we need any outside approval to love who we are? To me, that&#39;s the kind of nonsense that will allow any outside entity to come in and devastate us. If the only time I loved myself was when my somewhat malevolent opponents gave me the thumbs up to do so, I&#39;d constantly be two steps away from committing suicide.

AbelYah
11-02-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by charli@Nov 2 2003, 12:12 AM
I think white women with very curly or kinky hair are not clueless. When I was relaxed a white girl at work came up to me and asked me what kind of relaxer I used. I had to do a double take. Like, what you know about a relaxer. Turns out she had rather kinky hair and relaxed her hair too.

I think straight haired white women can be very clueless and don&#39;t understand the accompanying rain avoidance, reluctance to swim and go to the beach, being in the shop dang near all day.

But I will be the dissenting opinion because I DO care that white people be properly educated about black hair when the opportunity arises. Because white people still dominate the decision makers in media and in corporations. We are making great inroads with getting our skin color and physical features celebrated by the media and consequently other races. But sadly, most prominent black women still walk around with a perm or weave. I care about that because once (some) white people start to understand what the chemical and thermal straightening does over time, then someone with natural hair will be looked at as "ideal" rather than militant or bucking the trend.

And as much as I hate to say this, the majority of black people will not accept our own natural texture until white people accept it first. It&#39;s sad, and it&#39;s an unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe it. Once white people start saying that it&#39;s beautiful and you see it on television, in movies and on magazine covers, then, you know what, a lot of "impressionable" black people will follow suit, and especially impressionable adolescent girls. And once the images of beautiful natural women become more mainstream, then young black boys will come around and black men will come around and get off the whole 30inch weave with blonde highlights thing.

Like it or not, many black women are relaxed BECAUSE they fear what white people will think. The fear whether they can get a job or get promoted, they fear whether they will be accepted in the workplace or academia. They don&#39;t want to sport even the tiniest bit of naps because they feel white people will look at them as being inferior because of it. So, I think educating her was a step in the right direction, whether she might have been slightly critical or not. None of us can know how she came across because we were not there. But the more white people understand that most black women don&#39;t "naturally" look like that, the better they will understand how unnatural that is and how natural we are and less ostracizing of the naps because we don&#39;t look "how we should."

I read once that 80% of black women relax. Add to that the percentage that press faithfully and you see that very few of us with naturally nappy hair are walking around with it in it&#39;s normal state. I think it&#39;s easy for white people to think that is how it is. And think there is something wrong with hair that won&#39;t hang straight like "everybody else&#39;s."
Charli!! You said the magic word, "IMPRESSIONABLE" I was using this word the other day to descrobe black people. I hate to admit it but we can be so child-like AND impressionable. Childlike in sense that it is almost as if we have to ask for permission to be ourselves. Childlike that we are too affected by what we see. Then we copy that behavior or way of dress. It is not to say other people aren&#39;t impressionable but why do we think media and advertizers aim our way so much??

AbelYah-Salome Kohath-Levi

nappybuty
11-02-2003, 11:47 AM
You all are going to be so suprised. That has happend to me before, but I got the B.S from a BLACK WOMAN. She was/is in total denial about OUR HAIR. I felt violated and embarrased for her ignorance. She asked me questions about my hair like it was a phenomenon. The entire time I made it obvious that I was staring at her balding edges from harsh processing. I expect non-minorities to ignorant because they have not truly experienced kinky hair. But for a Black, older woman to pretend to be ignorant.........????????

ashrob123
11-02-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Medusa Negrita@Nov 1 2003, 02:19 PM
I have no sympathy for white folks and their supposed cluelessness. They basically (their ancestors) invented this shyte we go today about our hair not being the same as their and thusly ours being thought of as &#39;bad&#39; and now they got the nerve to act ignorant. I am not saying that they aren&#39;t truly ignorant of our hair, but that it&#39;s real &#39;convenient&#39; to be ignorant of something that they created (which our our and everyone else&#39;s mindset about &#39;our&#39; hair).
I agree with Medusa. The convenience with which white folks are ignornat about black shyte only happens because they want it to happen. In every major grocery store there is a section on black hair where at the very least there is a box of relaxer and a bottle of grease. You mean to tell me that we are so marginalized by this society that they don&#39;t even take the time to look at things that have black folks faces on it? There are a lot of things that I have looked at in the store that I was unsure of (like box of home perm) that when I read it I knew a little more, not enough to do something but enough to stop myself from looking like an idiot with a complete fricking stranger. White folks who are ignorant are that way because the want to be. So that black women on the street can be their personal guides through the black experience. Screw that. I don&#39;t think that any of us should have to be an ambassador for blackness if we don&#39;t want to.

And as far as the rudeness, I think that backhanded compliment deserved more than just a thank you and a good bye. She basically just sat up there and said that most black women who perm their hair are ignorant. That means she&#39;s talking about someone close to all of us. Even though I have said (and believe) the same thing, she&#39;s not in the family and is not allowed to do that. White folks take on too many liberties that are not corrected enough.

I can talk all I want to about my mama, but don&#39;t you chime in because she ain&#39;t yo mama.

Same scenario and likely a similar response.

deecoily
11-02-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by charli@Nov 2 2003, 11:12 AM
And as much as I hate to say this, the majority of black people will not accept our own natural texture until white people accept it first. It&#39;s sad, and it&#39;s an unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe it. Once white people start saying that it&#39;s beautiful and you see it on television, in movies and on magazine covers, then, you know what, a lot of "impressionable" black people will follow suit, and especially impressionable adolescent girls. And once the images of beautiful natural women become more mainstream, then young black boys will come around and black men will come around and get off the whole 30inch weave with blonde highlights thing.

Like it or not, many black women are relaxed BECAUSE they fear what white people will think. The fear whether they can get a job or get promoted, they fear whether they will be accepted in the workplace or academia. They don&#39;t want to sport even the tiniest bit of naps because they feel white people will look at them as being inferior because of it.
Bingo.

People will jump up and down with the Black Pride and say the "White man has no control over me" and protest the above statements all day long, but in reality I&#39;ll be damned if I haven&#39;t seen this in action.

The media controls so much of our self-image that it&#39;s difficult to separate the truth from the fabricated and invented. WHY are women continuing to burn their hair out of their heads in an impossible quest to look like the woman on the box? The PERM BOX and the TV BOX when both images are fake and unattainable.

Media says blond hair, green eyes, light skin is desirable. So here we go with the contact lenses, bleaching cream (or staying out of the sun) and buying the hair off the butt end of a yak to try and emulate this ideal.

If ignorance is bliss then a dayum majority of the population is ecstatic. That goes for ALL races.

Layln, priceless. Glad you could see past what she was really saying.

Dee.

afrogeek
11-02-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by PenCurls@Nov 1 2003, 07:26 PM
I can&#39;t speak for white people, but in my experiences with them, they do seem clueless about our hair. I mean, REALLY CLUELESS & I guess you can&#39;t fault them if they have no black friends. I think most whites live amongst themselves & though they may work with us, that&#39;s about as far as their experience with us goes. So how are they to know about our hair? I think a lot of them form their opinions of blacks based on what they see on TV (most of which is highly unfavorable). But the few times I&#39;ve had a white person question me about "black stuff" & they seemed sincere, I&#39;ve been polite about it.
I agree with Pencurls. My husband is white and before he met me, he thought black women had naturally straight hair, too. When I big chopped in july this year he was fascinated and enchanted by my hair. His hand is ALWAYS in my `fro. :offtopic, I know. Back to the subject, Unless a white person grew up having black friends, how would they know? Look at it this way. many of you have saud you don&#39;t know many white people. So if you hadn&#39;t had gym class in school, you have known they had to wash their hair everyday? :huh

nubian indigo
11-02-2003, 01:35 PM
I am absolutely compelled to give lalyn :app for her insightfull attention...and you sure were not rude to that woman at all and she basically got what she gave...

...a question w/comment...right?... :thumbsup

Yes...this is a crazeee azzz world...at times...and if you ladies were not here to affirm some of the true realities of OUR situation...omg... :-?

niki000
11-02-2003, 01:53 PM
In defense of the white woman... a lot of black men and women are amazed that my hair could "look like that" without a relaxer. I&#39;ve even come across a black man who honestly had no clue about black women&#39;s natural hair and the relaxing process. I&#39;m proud of most people who have the guts to come up and (politely) ask me about my hair, because then at least it means that they are willing to think outside of the box and be educated about something they otherwise wouldn&#39;t be exposed to.

shuaia
11-02-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 07:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don&#39;t know about how beautiful our natural hair is.
i agree, but this is because a lot of black people (world wide) don&#39;t realize the beauty & uniqueness of our own hair. we can&#39;t expect others to understand our hair when most of us still refuse to learn about it ourselves. :doh
this is why sites like this are so important. it&#39;s not just about hair styles, but having a healthy attitude about self.

looptyloo
11-02-2003, 02:14 PM
I think it depends on where you live and who your friends are...I grew up in an almost all white area and my white friends really thought our hair was naturally thin and IMPOSSIBLE TO GROW because we all relaxed it to death! When I started wearing my natural hair "out" afer wearing twists for a couple of years, they were like "I didn&#39;t know you had naturally curly hair - all this time I thought it was straight." A lot of them really honestly don&#39;t know what healthy black hair looks like, just like a lot of us don&#39;t know either. I like educating them - I don&#39;t want them thinking all black girls have naturally thin short broken ponytails, just because so many choose to have hair like that. :rainfro

candlow
11-02-2003, 02:18 PM
We shouldn&#39;t be surprised about the level of ignorance from some white people especially when black men can be just ignorant. Furthermore, it doesn&#39;t help when the only people that tend to be natural are artists or people portrayed as hippies on TV or drug addicts. Rarely do you see a successful black female character on TV with natural hair. Probably the last time most white Americans saw black women with natural hair was in 60s and 70s. I am more worried about the negative reaction have from other blacks. I don&#39;t know about the States, but in the UK I did get weird reactions from some blacks as well as whites when I had my hair natural first time round in the late 1990s :rainfro .

nubian indigo
11-02-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by niki000@Nov 2 2003, 09:53 AM
In defense of the white woman... a lot of black men and women are amazed that my hair could "look like that" without a relaxer. I&#39;ve even come across a black man who honestly had no clue about black women&#39;s natural hair and the relaxing process. I&#39;m proud of most people who have the guts to come up and (politely) ask me about my hair, because then at least it means that they are willing to think outside of the box and be educated about something they otherwise wouldn&#39;t be exposed to.
Well I wonder if these people are truly telling the truth...I mean...really...

...I could understand the ignorant view of realizing that some black women have straight hair and then there are some that do not. But having NO IDEA that black women CAN have curly, coily, nappy, etc. hair...come on now...I just don&#39;t believe it...

I wonder if these people are just so mentally trapped in mass hypnosis that they are like trauma struck by the notion that anything [hair] that is not like a white persons has been sent from the devil himself and should not even be acknowledged...? This does happens to trauma victims ya know...it&#39;s sick to think of it rolling down like this due to identifying Black/Afrikan traits...but it is a possiblity to me...

...if those fools keep going around acting like they don&#39;t know...
:-P :mad :-P

Oh..Oh... :duck

SweetAfrica
11-02-2003, 04:24 PM
Then I asked her, do you use chemicals? She said "No, but I&#39;ve colored my hair once or twice, why?" I told her because her hair looked thin, and most white women have thick hair. She gave me a dirty look, and I just smiled at her and walked away.

Just chiming in to say I LIKE that response! LOL

cassia
11-02-2003, 05:08 PM
[COLOR=blue][FONT=Geneva]
Layln, I don&#39;t think you were rude at all. Just pretty dahmn funny!

charli
11-02-2003, 06:04 PM
...I could understand the ignorant view of realizing that some black women have straight hair and then there are some that do not. But having NO IDEA that black women CAN have curly, coily, nappy, etc. hair...come on now...I just don&#39;t believe it...

Come on now, I&#39;m sure most white people don&#39;t give a second thought about how black women&#39;s hair really is. So if what they see are primarily:

braided
weaved
relaxed and long
relaxed and jacked up

and these women count for the overwhelming majority of black women&#39;s hair styles, then it&#39;s not so far fetched to think any differently. Just as much as we don&#39;t sit here pondering how many white women are truly blonde or get their color from Clairol.

In my own experience as a black person, I don&#39;t see many black women who are natural, natural. There may be some that are pressed and I just can&#39;t tell. I see a lot of braided extensions, but I don&#39;t know what their hair looks like underneath. But in any given day, I may only run into one or two other black women (if that) that are wearing their hair naturally. And I&#39;m obviously more perceptive to it being natural. So if I&#39;m not at all caring about other people&#39;s hair, why wouldn&#39;t I have misconceptions?

off topic:
I get so proud seeing little girls with cornrows and afro puffs and anything but pressed to death overgreased hair, weaves, ridiculously long extension braids and kiddie perms. I just hope that we can eliminate a lot of this senselessness bing prevalent with the next generation of black girls.

KhymFree
11-02-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by LBellatrix+Nov 1 2003, 08:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LBellatrix @ Nov 1 2003, 08:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Tori@Nov 1 2003, 02:27 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 02:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don&#39;t know about how beautiful our natural hair is.
And it&#39;s sadder that most black people don&#39;t know about how beautiful their natural hair is.
How can we expect white people to know when so many of us don&#39;t!!!! :mad I am so tired of worrying about what white people think, what they know or don&#39;t know. I guarantee you, that if more black people knew, then more white people would too, naturally.
:app

That&#39;s it right there.

People KILL me worrying about white folks. Folk act like it&#39;s still 1863 or something. Who gives a f*** what they think?

And on the flip side, who gives a f*** what black folks think when they tell you "You need to get a relaxer" or some such sh**?

If more BLACK folks got educated, and started wearing their own natural hair proudly instead of tiptoeing around like slavery just ended, we might have less of these kinds of incidents. LBell isn&#39;t holding her breath [/b][/quote]
:lol :thumbsup

nubian indigo
11-02-2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by charli@Nov 2 2003, 02:04 PM

...I could understand the ignorant view of realizing that some black women have straight hair and then there are some that do not. But having NO IDEA that black women CAN have curly, coily, nappy, etc. hair...come on now...I just don&#39;t believe it...

Come on now, I&#39;m sure most white people don&#39;t give a second thought about how black women&#39;s hair really is. So if what they see are primarily:

braided
weaved
relaxed and long
relaxed and jacked up

and these women count for the overwhelming majority of black women&#39;s hair styles, then it&#39;s not so far fetched to think any differently. Just as much as we don&#39;t sit here pondering how many white women are truly blonde or get their color from Clairol.

In my own experience as a black person, I don&#39;t see many black women who are natural, natural. There may be some that are pressed and I just can&#39;t tell. I see a lot of braided extensions, but I don&#39;t know what their hair looks like underneath. But in any given day, I may only run into one or two other black women (if that) that are wearing their hair naturally. And I&#39;m obviously more perceptive to it being natural. So if I&#39;m not at all caring about other people&#39;s hair, why wouldn&#39;t I have misconceptions?

off topic:
I get so proud seeing little girls with cornrows and afro puffs and anything but pressed to death overgreased hair, weaves, ridiculously long extension braids and kiddie perms. I just hope that we can eliminate a lot of this senselessness bing prevalent with the next generation of black girls.
With all respect to your posting...

I still say they lying...or something is up...white/other people don&#39;t have to be soooo into thinking about us or our hair all of the time to realize our hair comes in many different textures at the very least if nothing else...this...is my own humble opinion...how can they be sooooo absolutely ignorant...when they HAVE to see.

-Our daughters hair...
-Their own family...(some do have blacks in their immediate family w/children...I know that I do...their hair is not usually straight/unnappy)
-Our moms, grandmoms...the older women that have the lovely big and plaited natural hair...on the avenue and everywhere...
-Historical pics from various institutions...
-Black Historical Figures (pics) they gotta know that Harriet Tubman was not relaxed...o.k.
-Dang...DIANA ROSS & CHAKA KHAN...Whoopi Goldberg...Angela Davis (and her old crew)...Bob Marley...Every blasted Ethiopian that was ever exploited all over the t.v. for various charities
-and...the few but they are still out there...models, t.v. shows...etc.
-These people have never seen a late &#39;60s through early &#39;80s flick...there was even a James Bond flick with an black woman donning an afro *sucking teeth*

:-x

Come on now...and &#39;others&#39; do think about it enough if they can draw an opinion such as &#39;why do all black women have straight & thin hair...&#39; So why has she not noticed our daughters with a majority still with their natural hair...? What would have made MORE sense was if Ms. Rude had asked lalyn &#39;why do so many black women not wear their natural hair...or...I always see so many black women with straightned hair...&#39;

Some people are so trifling and bring things to us just to stir things up within usa bit...to so coyly and cleverly point out our continued divided culture... :rolleyes which has a major emphasis on being just like her sadly...sometimes I think it&#39;s like a mind game or something...trying to break us off into little bits and pieces...encouraging the divide...

Ms. Rude&#39;s approach was disturbing to say the least...was she trying to just get some jollies off of lalyn&#39;s answer, and expecting laylyn to have some sort of sappy-sally answer and not have a witty rebuttal (that&#39;s right guurrll gwon wicha bad self) ...why should she care about that...why did she need an answer to that right then...stirring up feelings of shame for our straight haired sisters...? :huh Getting into OUR home business...(this type of divide is for US to work out)

I don&#39;t get it...curiosity is one thing...but didn&#39;t her mama teach her ANY manners...

...and I bet her slick azz will be (or has already) going up to the next chemically straightened black woman and ask her...&#39;why do some black women have that &#39;bush/brillo/napps/hard/unmanageble/terrible/dreadful hair when they could have it straight like you...what a shame&#39;

...just trifling :-P

nubian indigo
11-02-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by KhymFree+Nov 2 2003, 02:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KhymFree @ Nov 2 2003, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by LBellatrix@Nov 1 2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Tori@Nov 1 2003, 02:27 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 02:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don&#39;t know about how beautiful our natural hair is.
And it&#39;s sadder that most black people don&#39;t know about how beautiful their natural hair is.
How can we expect white people to know when so many of us don&#39;t!!!! :mad I am so tired of worrying about what white people think, what they know or don&#39;t know. I guarantee you, that if more black people knew, then more white people would too, naturally.
:app

That&#39;s it right there.

People KILL me worrying about white folks. Folk act like it&#39;s still 1863 or something. Who gives a f*** what they think?

And on the flip side, who gives a f*** what black folks think when they tell you "You need to get a relaxer" or some such sh**?


:lol :thumbsup [/b][/quote]
And there you go right there...

lalyn being rude...being rude...lol...she was being a DOLL to have answered her (with that type of questioning) at all in my opinion...

...and like I mentioned people know what&#39;s up anywayz...so pleazzzee just a tactic of the very weak minded to &#39;keep a sistahs mind on lock&#39; very old parlor trick... :rolleyes

ini
11-03-2003, 01:31 AM
i wasn&#39;t there so i can&#39;t say what the woman&#39;s percieved tone was but from reading the initial post i was like &#39;dang, why so defensive?&#39;. @ anyrate, i have white friends that honestly had no clue that some of us just didn&#39;t have straight hair. matter o fact i know a black man that told me he figured it out in high school *huh*. i gave a close white friend a book i was reading once about black hair (hairstory) because we swapped books and she came back just fuming mad about the &#39;good hair, bad hair&#39; deal. she was really ticked off and kept telling me to tell her that it wasn&#39;t like that

ini
11-03-2003, 01:34 AM
o.k. i&#39;m reading people&#39;s post and i&#39;m just wondering...am i the only person that doesn&#39;t see what was so wrong with what the woman asked? sometimes people come off so cruel and angry...i&#39;m trying to objectively get it...but i don&#39;t see it http://www.roshini.net/images/smilies/huh.gif

Mia Mia
11-03-2003, 03:46 AM
Heck, alot of black people don&#39;t even know..should we really expect white people to ?..lol

marissasensei
11-03-2003, 03:54 AM
Originally posted by ini@Nov 2 2003, 07:34 PM
o.k. i&#39;m reading people&#39;s post and i&#39;m just wondering...am i the only person that doesn&#39;t see what was so wrong with what the woman asked? sometimes people come off so cruel and angry...i&#39;m trying to objectively get it...but i don&#39;t see it http://www.roshini.net/images/smilies/huh.gif
Nope. It&#39;s not just you. I just assumed that the white woman&#39;s tone or attitude must have been nasty b/c the question alone wouldn&#39;t seem to warrant the response it got.
*shrug*

BabySoft
11-03-2003, 04:08 AM
I think that white people shouldn&#39;t have to know about our hair or care even. As long as I am taking care of my hair and it&#39;s healthy and growing then I don&#39;t care what anyone else thinks. I only care about what I think first, then what my husband thinks next. Now, I agree there are some racist white people who can&#39;t wait for an opportunity to say some sarcastic racist remark. Having natural AA hair is a great target because it is considered as unmanageable and unrefined. White folks know black woman&#39;s most sensitive subject is hair period. A lot of them even try to straighten their already fine textured hair. A lot of them scorn the thought of a black woman&#39;s hair options and choices because it is sooo far away from their ideals of beautiful, "carefree, silky and shakeable" hair. But I really believe most are just curious and may even be admiring our bold differences.

ibeto
11-03-2003, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by marissasensei+Nov 3 2003, 04:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (marissasensei @ Nov 3 2003, 04:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-ini@Nov 2 2003, 07:34 PM
o.k. i&#39;m reading people&#39;s post and i&#39;m just wondering...am i the only person that doesn&#39;t see what was so wrong with what the woman asked? sometimes people come off so cruel and angry...i&#39;m trying to objectively get it...but i don&#39;t see it http://www.roshini.net/images/smilies/huh.gif
Nope. It&#39;s not just you. I just assumed that the white woman&#39;s tone or attitude must have been nasty b/c the question alone wouldn&#39;t seem to warrant the response it got.
*shrug*[/b][/quote]
I also am in agreement with the two of you. Granted I wasn&#39;t there so the manner in which she asked I&#39;ll never know.

MariposaMorena08
11-03-2003, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by KhymFree@Nov 1 2003, 06:24 PM
wow that was kinda harsh. i&#39;ve found from the ones i talked to they honestly don&#39;t know. if they approach me in a nice way, i respond nicely to them. she was probably just clueless. she also probably seen the see through thin perms that some Black women have and wondered how your hair could be so nice and thick. most of them are just clueless when it comes to anything that isn&#39;t white.
I think that maybe you could have been a tad nicer...from what you posted she did seem to really want to know about our hair. I had read/heard from another source that a lot of white people think that our hair is naturally straight and that Black folks with natural hair had undergone some kind of process to obtain afros and the like. I would say to try and be careful not to close the line of communication between the races. I think that lot of white folks have questions that they want to ask, out of innocent curiousity, but are afraid of getting us upset. They have to ask someone, otherwise they will continue in ignorance and we will continue complaining about their ignorance.

MariposaMorena08
11-03-2003, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by charli@Nov 2 2003, 12:12 AM
I think white women with very curly or kinky hair are not clueless. When I was relaxed a white girl at work came up to me and asked me what kind of relaxer I used. I had to do a double take. Like, what you know about a relaxer. Turns out she had rather kinky hair and relaxed her hair too.

I think straight haired white women can be very clueless and don&#39;t understand the accompanying rain avoidance, reluctance to swim and go to the beach, being in the shop dang near all day.

But I will be the dissenting opinion because I DO care that white people be properly educated about black hair when the opportunity arises. Because white people still dominate the decision makers in media and in corporations. We are making great inroads with getting our skin color and physical features celebrated by the media and consequently other races. But sadly, most prominent black women still walk around with a perm or weave. I care about that because once (some) white people start to understand what the chemical and thermal straightening does over time, then someone with natural hair will be looked at as "ideal" rather than militant or bucking the trend.

And as much as I hate to say this, the majority of black people will not accept our own natural texture until white people accept it first. It&#39;s sad, and it&#39;s an unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe it. Once white people start saying that it&#39;s beautiful and you see it on television, in movies and on magazine covers, then, you know what, a lot of "impressionable" black people will follow suit, and especially impressionable adolescent girls. And once the images of beautiful natural women become more mainstream, then young black boys will come around and black men will come around and get off the whole 30inch weave with blonde highlights thing.

Like it or not, many black women are relaxed BECAUSE they fear what white people will think. The fear whether they can get a job or get promoted, they fear whether they will be accepted in the workplace or academia. They don&#39;t want to sport even the tiniest bit of naps because they feel white people will look at them as being inferior because of it. So, I think educating her was a step in the right direction, whether she might have been slightly critical or not. None of us can know how she came across because we were not there. But the more white people understand that most black women don&#39;t "naturally" look like that, the better they will understand how unnatural that is and how natural we are and less ostracizing of the naps because we don&#39;t look "how we should."

I read once that 80% of black women relax. Add to that the percentage that press faithfully and you see that very few of us with naturally nappy hair are walking around with it in it&#39;s normal state. I think it&#39;s easy for white people to think that is how it is. And think there is something wrong with hair that won&#39;t hang straight like "everybody else&#39;s."
ITA :thumbsup

jetblackkinks
11-03-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by LBellatrix@Nov 1 2003, 03:30 PM

If more BLACK folks got educated, and started wearing their own natural hair proudly instead of tiptoeing around like slavery just ended, we might have less of these kinds of incidents. LBell isn&#39;t holding her breath
PREACH!!!! I&#39;ve gotta use that "tiptoeing around like slavery just ended"...priceless.

jetblackkinks

jetblackkinks
11-03-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by nubian indigo+Nov 2 2003, 03:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nubian indigo @ Nov 2 2003, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-charli@Nov 2 2003, 02:04 PM
Come on now, I&#39;m sure most white people don&#39;t give a second thought about how black women&#39;s hair really is. So if what they see are primarily:

braided
weaved
relaxed and long
relaxed and jacked up

and these women count for the overwhelming majority of black women&#39;s hair styles, then it&#39;s not so far fetched to think any differently.
With all respect to your posting...

I still say they lying...or something is up...white/other people don&#39;t have to be soooo into thinking about us or our hair all of the time to realize our hair comes in many different textures at the very least if nothing else...this...is my own humble opinion...how can they be sooooo absolutely ignorant...when they HAVE to see.

-Our daughters hair...
-Their own family...(some do have blacks in their immediate family w/children...I know that I do...their hair is not usually straight/unnappy)
-Our moms, grandmoms...the older women that have the lovely big and plaited natural hair...on the avenue and everywhere...
-Historical pics from various institutions...
-Black Historical Figures (pics) they gotta know that Harriet Tubman was not relaxed...o.k.
-Dang...DIANA ROSS & CHAKA KHAN...Whoopi Goldberg...Angela Davis (and her old crew)...Bob Marley...Every blasted Ethiopian that was ever exploited all over the t.v. for various charities
-and...the few but they are still out there...models, t.v. shows...etc.
-These people have never seen a late &#39;60s through early &#39;80s flick...there was even a James Bond flick with an black woman donning an afro *sucking teeth*

:-x

Come on now...and &#39;others&#39; do think about it enough if they can draw an opinion such as &#39;why do all black women have straight & thin hair...&#39; So why has she not noticed our daughters with a majority still with their natural hair...? What would have made MORE sense was if Ms. Rude had asked lalyn &#39;why do so many black women not wear their natural hair...or...I always see so many black women with straightned hair...&#39;

Some people are so trifling and bring things to us just to stir things up within usa bit...to so coyly and cleverly point out our continued divided culture... :rolleyes which has a major emphasis on being just like her sadly...sometimes I think it&#39;s like a mind game or something...trying to break us off into little bits and pieces...encouraging the divide...

Ms. Rude&#39;s approach was disturbing to say the least...was she trying to just get some jollies off of lalyn&#39;s answer, and expecting laylyn to have some sort of sappy-sally answer and not have a witty rebuttal (that&#39;s right guurrll gwon wicha bad self) ...why should she care about that...why did she need an answer to that right then...stirring up feelings of shame for our straight haired sisters...? :huh Getting into OUR home business...(this type of divide is for US to work out)

I don&#39;t get it...curiosity is one thing...but didn&#39;t her mama teach her ANY manners...

...and I bet her slick azz will be (or has already) going up to the next chemically straightened black woman and ask her...&#39;why do some black women have that &#39;bush/brillo/napps/hard/unmanageble/terrible/dreadful hair when they could have it straight like you...what a shame&#39;

...just trifling :-P

[/b][/quote]
THANK YOU!!!! That&#39;s exactly what I was thinking...I just don&#39;t buy the supposed "ignorance"...I was just thinking about the whole afro-70&#39;s period...what did they think that was? And you brought up every other instance that they couldn&#39;t possible deny, REAL LIFE examples of nappy hair as well as in the media...come on, even I won&#39;t believe that they&#39;re that stupid... :nohuh

Or maybe they are... :duck

jetblackkinks

lalyn
11-03-2003, 01:43 PM
O.k. if I thought this woman was really being curious, then I would have been cool as heck. I&#39;m a very nice person, and I go out of my way to be nice. I would have probably gave her an invite to this site.
I&#39;m 26, and she might have be at the most, a year or two older. She came up to me. I did not approach her. She was the one with her sick Buffy A$$ voice, asking questions. If she was sooooo curious, then why didn&#39;t she just ask about my hair? Why did she have to try to dog other sisters out? When I was asking if white women see our hair this way, I guess what I really meant was do most white women laugh at our relaxed hair. She said straight, and thin like they had the plague, not hair.
I did see post that said, if black people don&#39;t know about our hair then how could white people. Good point!!! However, what these black people "Who don&#39;t know about our hair," are saying they have no one in their family with natural hair, women or men. So they all relax, that ish sounds dumb. The only black people I know who could get away with some dumb stuff like that would be the ones who have straight to 2a type hair, and don&#39;t relax it. Being that dumb allows white people to laugh/dog you in your face. She was not worried about our hair, and why should she be, as many of you pointed out? If that Buffy Heffa got up one morning, and her hair was our texture she would probably kill herself. That barbie girl in her barbie world was trying to be cute.
Oh yes, post had "I have a white husband, friend, uncle, daddy, etc....... SO!!! My husband, in-laws, and cousins mothers are white too. They are all from the hicky stickies, and are not that dumb when it comes to black hair. They have not had any formal hair training with Q & A&#39;s from someone from our culture, with kicky texture hair. They don&#39;t care about my hair, they might say it looks good, but they don&#39;t ask no dumb ish. That Buffy was trying to be cute, and I was cute back. Like, the song says, "Don&#39;t start no stuff, won&#39;t be no stuff.

Let me go tip-toe to get me some tea, whatever!!!

puchi
11-03-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Papillion+Nov 1 2003, 02:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Papillion @ Nov 1 2003, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 10:00 AM
O.k. I was in Wal-Mart the other day, and this white woman kept looking at me. She finally came up to me, and said "You have very pretty hair." I told her thank you, and started to walk away. Then she said, "Can I ask you something?" I was said yes. Then she said "Why do most black women have striaght thin hair, and you have pretty thick tight curls?" I told her that I don&#39;t use chemicals in my hair, also known as relaxers. Then she says, "So black women don&#39;t have naturally straight thin hair?" I told her no. Then she was like "Why would they make their hair look like that?" I told her that was a good question, and she should ask one the next time she sees them. Then I asked her, do you use chemicals? She said "No, but I&#39;ve colored my hair once or twice, why?" I told her because her hair looked thin, and most white women have thick hair. She gave me a dirty look, and I just smiled at her and walked away.
I was thinking about it, and I was wondering do all white people think black women have naturally straight thin, hair? I was upset. Has anyone else experienced something like this? Are some white people that clueless, if they are no wonder they all believe what Oprah says about our hair?
:app

That was priceless!!!

I have found that many white women, although usually extremely ignorant about Black folk&#39;s hair, are usually curious to the point of being rude with just a bit of maliciousness sprinkled in.

Many of the white women I have encountered, usually not personal acquaintences, have made it a point to point out that Black people&#39;s hair is different, and to point it out in a way that it like pointing out the spots on an odd animal or something.

I just cannot abide rudeness and I say she got what whe deserved!
:-) [/b][/quote]
i can testify to that.... how come they have to be so rude sometimes. So rude to the point that they are just downright annoying... I can understand being curious, but ignorance is just not acceptable, it just isnt. I totally agree that she got what she deserved.. and i loved that comeback! :fight

--puchi :rainfro

knt
11-03-2003, 02:43 PM
while doing my internships at the University of Georgia I experimented with wigs when i didn&#39;t feel like combing my hair. At the time i had shoulder lenght relax hair. And i remembered a lot of the faculty was simply amazed at my hair growth. Mind you i sported a halle berry cut wig one week, the next week i wore an on my back micro braid wig. Then the following week i sported my own hair in big ringlets and they really tought my hair just grew amazingly fast. If an individual doesn&#39;t go behind the scene of certain culture all they ever get to observe is the final package and can only relate it to what they know about their own experience.

tll524
11-03-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by knt@Nov 3 2003, 10:43 AM
while doing my internships at the University of Georgia I experimented with wigs when i didn&#39;t feel like combing my hair. At the time i had shoulder lenght relax hair. And i remembered a lot of the faculty was simply amazed at my hair growth. Mind you i sported a halle berry cut wig one week, the next week i wore an on my back micro braid wig. Then the following week i sported my own hair in big ringlets and they really tought my hair just grew amazingly fast. If an individual doesn&#39;t go behind the scene of certain culture all they ever get to observe is the final package and can only relate it to what they know about their own experience.
I have to completely agree with this. I changed my hair very often when I was in college and the white people always were just amazed. Most of them had no concept of weave, so this must have just been my hair going through all sorts of changes.

When people asked about my hair and seemed to be truly just trying to understand, I wouldn&#39;t have a problem talking to them. I&#39;d rather them be comfortable asking me about it, then talk about it behind my back and never get it right. However, if someone seemed to be condescending or negative, I would respond in the same manner.

But some white people are truly intrigued with the variations that we can acheive with our hair. They have no concept of such beauty and variety with their own. :)

Laquita
11-03-2003, 03:59 PM
And it&#39;s sadder that most black people don&#39;t know about how beautiful their natural hair is.


I agree with this. :thumbsup

I come across so many black people that say, I can do that (meaning wearing no perm) because I have "that good hair". :-?

toy
11-03-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by ibeto+Nov 3 2003, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ibeto @ Nov 3 2003, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by marissasensei@Nov 3 2003, 04:54 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-ini@Nov 2 2003, 07:34 PM
o.k. i&#39;m reading people&#39;s post and i&#39;m just wondering...am i the only person that doesn&#39;t see what was so wrong with what the woman asked? sometimes people come off so cruel and angry...i&#39;m trying to objectively get it...but i don&#39;t see it http://www.roshini.net/images/smilies/huh.gif
Nope. It&#39;s not just you. I just assumed that the white woman&#39;s tone or attitude must have been nasty b/c the question alone wouldn&#39;t seem to warrant the response it got.
*shrug*
I also am in agreement with the two of you. Granted I wasn&#39;t there so the manner in which she asked I&#39;ll never know. [/b][/quote]
ditto that!

i must say, however, that this is an interesting conversation that&#39;s going on here. i think that Charli hit the nail on the head when she stated that a lot of black folks&#39; resistance to their natural hair is based on the value (or lack thereof) that they believe white folks have placed on it.

tangytic
11-03-2003, 05:51 PM
:app big ups to the white woman who asked this question. I wish more of them would be bold enough to approach permed sistas and ask them that question.

netta1
11-03-2003, 08:46 PM
Ok, this is a very interesting thread. I don&#39;t think that you were wrong for what you said, after-all you were the only person their so only you what type of attitude you were dealing with. Anyway I agree that there are just some ignorate people out their Black/white/male/female, who really don&#39;t know a lot about black hair. In my 23 years of coming in contact with white people I have been asked so many questions, I mean the types of questions where I could not even believe that they were serious. But, I really don&#39;t mind because heck thats what a grew up around. :rolleyes Of course if I feel like the person is really trying to offend me they might catch a verbal "christian like" beatdown :roll: .

This is a little :offtopic but the comment that the white women made about black women with relaxed hair was interesting---but I&#39;ve heard SOME people on nappturality dis people who relax 100x worst. Is it ok when we down our own relaxed sistas, but when they do it, its not okay. :huh :pop :nohuh

Blackanese
11-03-2003, 09:28 PM
This is a little but the comment that the white women made about black women with relaxed hair was interesting---but I&#39;ve heard SOME people on nappturality dis people who relax 100x worst. Is it ok when we down our own relaxed sistas, but when they do it, its not okay.

OKAY! She obviously just saw the same thing we saw when we decided to stop relaxing. She did give a nice compliment first so I doubt she was trying to offend or be nasty. White people don&#39;t usually take offense to comments about other white people, she probably didn&#39;t realize that we often take that kind of thing personally. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s necessary to be mean and hurt someone&#39;s feelings just because they asked a dumb question.

As far as their ignorance about our hair is concerned- I think if they sat and thought about all of the black men and women they&#39;d ever seen in life and really analyzed the texture of their hair, maybe they would realize, but who would do that? And think about how much time black women spend desperately trying to hide the fact that their hair isn&#39;t straight. The idea that damn near all black women pay someone to put specially formulated LYE on their hair every 6 weeks and avoid water to hide the natural curls in every way possible for their entire lives - well would that really be the most logical conclusion if you didn&#39;t know any better? That sounds insane doesn&#39;t it?

ini
11-03-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by netta1@Nov 3 2003, 05:46 PM
This is a little :offtopic but the comment that the white women made about black women with relaxed hair was interesting---but I&#39;ve heard SOME people on nappturality dis people who relax 100x worst. Is it ok when we down our own relaxed sistas, but when they do it, its not okay. :huh :pop :nohuh
OKAY?!

Like I said, I wasn&#39;t there so I don&#39;t know the tone but dang! I have this thing about the angry black person thing...why? :duck i&#39;ve learned from close white friends that everything i think is obvious is not...and everything she thinks is obvious is not. has it ever dawned on anyone&#39;s mind that someone is genuinely curious and not malicious? their curiosity goes unanswered for years because their white peers have no clue and the angry black people won&#39;t answer the question.

as an aside: i have 62 y/o white friend who told me that when she went to college at Oberlin years ago she met a girl who she really liked and wanted to be friend. they hung out, but when my friend suggested they hang out with the black girl&#39;s family she said &#39;we can&#39;t do that, have you lost your mind&#39;. my friend met me and told me once after years of friendship that she appreciated the fact that i didn&#39;t snap at her when she asked &#39;ignorant&#39; questions about black culture because she just doesn&#39;t know and NO ONE would ever answer her questions. goodness!!!

Shanna
11-03-2003, 11:13 PM
she went to college at Oberlin years ago

Hey, I know that place.... :thumbsup

ooooo
11-03-2003, 11:25 PM
wow. that woman sounds stupid. not jus clueless but stupid. how can you not know that women of afro descent have highly textured hair? look at blackhair section and you see what... RELAXERS... designed to STRAIGHTEN textured hair. Look at our kids hair... look at black mens hair textures... she is willfully ignorant and i am not sympathetic.

nubian indigo
11-03-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 3 2003, 09:43 AM
O.k. if I thought this woman was really being curious, then I would have been cool as heck. I&#39;m a very nice person, and I go out of my way to be nice. I would have probably gave her an invite to this site.
I&#39;m 26, and she might have be at the most, a year or two older. She came up to me. I did not approach her. She was the one with her sick Buffy A$$ voice, asking questions. If she was sooooo curious, then why didn&#39;t she just ask about my hair? Why did she have to try to dog other sisters out? When I was asking if white women see our hair this way, I guess what I really meant was do most white women laugh at our relaxed hair. She said straight, and thin like they had the plague, not hair.
.....

..... Being that dumb allows people to laugh/dog you in your face.
O.K. now that&#39;s what I am talking about...getting pooped on in public w/a smile...I don&#39;t think so...NO ONE of any race, gender, etc. should try to get into you like that...about your hair, house, car, man, woman, child, moms, friends, job, weight, etc.

...Now I have some WONDERFUL friends/collegues and family that are white/mixed (not black...etc.) ...and I KNOW that these people would not be so darn stupid as to ask me such a dumb question...and I would never ask them anything that would equate to something so darn stupid...(and we know each other...so how is it that a stranger gets the right to be so openly passive aggressive...?

...and I know that all peoples of different races are not absolutely terrible or anything like that...and I feel bothered just talking about anyone like this (with the broad &#39;race&#39; brush) that I do have close and personal relationships with in my own life...however I am sure that it can be agreed upon that we are speaking of the racist type that seems to thrive on getting certain minorities hot under the collar...that&#39;s it. And YALL KNOW that there are some strangly backward black (peoples of color for that matter) that will give them even more oil for their fire... :nohuh

...But lalyn&#39;s experience is something that I defintely dug once she shelled it out...and as you can tell from her posts since then...this opinion may not have been so off...

...now I am not starting nothing up in here...I&#39;m just saying that even the most experienced diplomat HAS to recognize when someone is just trying to straight up and down take a dig...and with our history (between the races) we should not take another persons feelings for granted and put our foot in our mouth first and then go...

...did I do that...

THE ONLY thing that I can think of...is if some white people see our relaxing our hair as something that should be in a hush like a boob job or something like that...a cosmetic surgery that we do but don&#39;t want to openly hollar about...and these questions arise out of some sort of warped idea that it is a kindness to ask us rather than go for the obvious so that we have the opportunity to make up whatever story we want..? :daz

It&#39;s a toss up I really don&#39;t know...

...and that lady didn&#39;t ask kindly anywayz...

because the diplomat in me always rises to the occasion to first give the benefit of the doubt...but once that doubt has been removed...what is left...the truth...

...the only persons that can honestly get away with questions like that and get a smile or laughter out of me would be a 5 year old...cause yall know that &#39;kids say the darndest thing...&#39; so what is her excuse...really...

...I hope that no one here would take that crap for real...because there are some boogars out there that will do it to ya...some people just get down like that...now imagine if this is done in front of your children or their children... *cycle* it&#39;s these pseudo subliminal digs that have been eating away at our nation for centuries that make a place just for nappy hair *ZION*

:d)

ooooo
11-03-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by deecoily+Nov 2 2003, 06:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (deecoily @ Nov 2 2003, 06:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-charli@Nov 2 2003, 11:12 AM
And as much as I hate to say this, the majority of black people will not accept our own natural texture until white people accept it first. It&#39;s sad, and it&#39;s an unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe it. Once white people start saying that it&#39;s beautiful and you see it on television, in movies and on magazine covers, then, you know what, a lot of "impressionable" black people will follow suit, and especially impressionable adolescent girls. And once the images of beautiful natural women become more mainstream, then young black boys will come around and black men will come around and get off the whole 30inch weave with blonde highlights thing.

Like it or not, many black women are relaxed BECAUSE they fear what white people will think. The fear whether they can get a job or get promoted, they fear whether they will be accepted in the workplace or academia. They don&#39;t want to sport even the tiniest bit of naps because they feel white people will look at them as being inferior because of it.
Bingo.

People will jump up and down with the Black Pride and say the "White man has no control over me" and protest the above statements all day long, but in reality I&#39;ll be damned if I haven&#39;t seen this in action.

The media controls so much of our self-image that it&#39;s difficult to separate the truth from the fabricated and invented. WHY are women continuing to burn their hair out of their heads in an impossible quest to look like the woman on the box? The PERM BOX and the TV BOX when both images are fake and unattainable.

Media says blond hair, green eyes, light skin is desirable. So here we go with the contact lenses, bleaching cream (or staying out of the sun) and buying the hair off the butt end of a yak to try and emulate this ideal.

If ignorance is bliss then a dayum majority of the population is ecstatic. That goes for ALL races.

Layln, priceless. Glad you could see past what she was really saying.

Dee. [/b][/quote]
lol.. the thing is ignorance is not the main issue with straightening our hair. we do it because of pressure. oftentimes controlling people in our lives exert real PRESSURE on us to straighten. we are not ignorant so much as we are actually oppressed as a group.

not the same as the generally carefree blithe ignorance of a white person...

and there is nothing blissful about going to a stylist and waiting hours to get harsh burning chemicals smeared all over your head jus so you can feel "normal"...

angielocks
11-04-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by naturalsystah+Nov 1 2003, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (naturalsystah @ Nov 1 2003, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 07:02 PM
I guess it is sad that most white people don&#39;t know about how beautiful our natural hair is.
True. It&#39;s even worse that a lot of Black people still don&#39;t even know. [/b][/quote]
you took the words right out of my fingers:)

tll524
11-04-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by afronappy+Nov 3 2003, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (afronappy @ Nov 3 2003, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by deecoily@Nov 2 2003, 06:09 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-charli@Nov 2 2003, 11:12 AM
And as much as I hate to say this, the majority of black people will not accept our own natural texture until white people accept it first. It&#39;s sad, and it&#39;s an unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe it. Once white people start saying that it&#39;s beautiful and you see it on television, in movies and on magazine covers, then, you know what, a lot of "impressionable" black people will follow suit, and especially impressionable adolescent girls. And once the images of beautiful natural women become more mainstream, then young black boys will come around and black men will come around and get off the whole 30inch weave with blonde highlights thing.

Like it or not, many black women are relaxed BECAUSE they fear what white people will think. The fear whether they can get a job or get promoted, they fear whether they will be accepted in the workplace or academia. They don&#39;t want to sport even the tiniest bit of naps because they feel white people will look at them as being inferior because of it.
Bingo.

People will jump up and down with the Black Pride and say the "White man has no control over me" and protest the above statements all day long, but in reality I&#39;ll be damned if I haven&#39;t seen this in action.

The media controls so much of our self-image that it&#39;s difficult to separate the truth from the fabricated and invented. WHY are women continuing to burn their hair out of their heads in an impossible quest to look like the woman on the box? The PERM BOX and the TV BOX when both images are fake and unattainable.

Media says blond hair, green eyes, light skin is desirable. So here we go with the contact lenses, bleaching cream (or staying out of the sun) and buying the hair off the butt end of a yak to try and emulate this ideal.

If ignorance is bliss then a dayum majority of the population is ecstatic. That goes for ALL races.

Layln, priceless. Glad you could see past what she was really saying.

Dee.
lol.. the thing is ignorance is not the main issue with straightening our hair. we do it because of pressure. oftentimes controlling people in our lives exert real PRESSURE on us to straighten. we are not ignorant so much as we are actually oppressed as a group.

not the same as the generally carefree blithe ignorance of a white person...

and there is nothing blissful about going to a stylist and waiting hours to get harsh burning chemicals smeared all over your head jus so you can feel "normal"... [/b][/quote]
As a woman who permed my hair for several years, I am quite shocked to see how other black women who have chosen not to perm their hair would have thought about me just a few months ago.

While it is true that many people choose to do things out of ignorance, others do not. Is it really hard to believe that someone would relax their hair because they simply like the hairstyles it acheives? Everyone with a relaxer does not feel imprisoned or held captive. Some people enjoy the &#39;sista time&#39; they spend at the salon. It&#39;s more a matter of preference and priority than ignorance. I chose to go to the salon because I LOVED the way my hair looked when it was freshly done. I didn&#39;t feel like I had to relax my hair so that white people would like me or accept me...Those thoughts never crossed my mind.

I think it&#39;s very unfair to blame this WalMart incident on the ignorance of black women about their hair textures. We all have differnt textures and lengths. And we also prefer a variety of styles. So, why not simply accept that the complexity of our hair care is simply an issue that will perplex other races forever? Even if the questions go unasked and unanswered, they will still exist. We are so many shades of beautiful that even I feel drawn to stare sometimes. However you choose to deal with that sort of confrontation is up to you, but please don&#39;t place the blame for those kind of questions on black women. Even with a detailed explanation, our hair care is something that the average white person just won&#39;t get. It&#39;s a black thing, they just won&#39;t understand.

rootsgyrl
11-04-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by tll524@Nov 4 2003, 04:15 PM
It&#39;s a black thing, they just won&#39;t understand.
True dat. :app

It&#39;s amazing how two cultures could live together for hundreds of years and still not know anything about each other...(besides what one reads in books...true or untrue)

netta1
11-04-2003, 03:48 PM
I don&#39;t expect how we as black people expect people to know understand and embrace our hair, when some of us just recently started doing so. Plus some of US just recently got educated on the true damage that a relaxer can do, not only that but some of US are just now finding the beauty of our natural texture. It amazing how quickly we forget where SOME of us were, heck and still are.

netta1
11-04-2003, 03:49 PM
-I meant I don&#39;t understand....

MariposaMorena08
11-04-2003, 03:56 PM
*deleted post*

jennifer ^v^
11-04-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by netta1@Nov 3 2003, 04:46 PM
This is a little :offtopic but the comment that the white women made about black women with relaxed hair was interesting---but I&#39;ve heard SOME people on nappturality dis people who relax 100x worst. Is it ok when we down our own relaxed sistas, but when they do it, its not okay. :huh :pop :nohuh
That&#39;s what I was wondering as well. I&#39;d think that black women (especially black women who have previously relaxed their hair) would be a bit more sympathetic toward other black women who currently relax their hair--if for no other reason than the fact that the now natural women know dang well what the relaxed women went through as far as their hair is concerned. If we declare open season on our supposed "own," then how can we crucify outsiders for doing the same?

netta1
11-04-2003, 04:14 PM
Very well said, Jennifer.

jennifer ^v^
11-04-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by LotsOfLocs@Nov 1 2003, 03:10 PM
They so intrested in Black affairs do your on research. I get tired of that spectacle crap! We dont go up to them asking dumb questions.
Forgive the double posting, as I can&#39;t seem to figure out how to properly add two quotes to my responses.

-------------------------------
But isn&#39;t asking people honest questions a part of research? Granted, yes, I think that the woman that lalyn spoke with may not have really wanted to actually know anything, but merely wanted to slyly insult black women...but what if someone just has an honest question about why someone is wearing their hair natural? As long as the questioner is respectful, what&#39;s wrong with going up to people and asking them a question he or she might have?

The overwhelming majority of strangers I have ever asked about anything (ranging from hairstyles to fashion to external political statements) have been nothing but receptive to my asking. I think that they would rather have me ask them the questions, instead of spreading assumptions and stereotypes about things I don&#39;t understand. Heck, most of them have even said that.

Are people so detached from each other that if I wanted to ask a stranger a question about who he or she was, I would have to do everything in my power to find my answer outside of directly asking the person the question?

jennifer ^v^
11-04-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by netta1@Nov 4 2003, 12:14 PM
Very well said, Jennifer.
Oh dang, yet another post. Don&#39;t :duck me.

Thank you, netta!

Ok, I&#39;m done now.

krispykurl99
11-04-2003, 04:42 PM
Most white people are clueless about

josetth
11-06-2003, 03:01 AM
this post needs to be in some type of archive on the site.

Nuchie
11-06-2003, 03:18 AM
That is too rich for my blood >:(
How in the world could she have gotten upset when you just reverted the same question in so many words back at her :nohuh
Ignorance!!!
And a few decades ago we were the "ignorant", "clueless", "yes massa" folk ;-)

emgurl1234
11-27-2003, 05:08 AM
i really dont understand who anyone could think that white women was ignorant.. i grew up in an all white town an my family was the ONLY black family there, an my mother being half asian didnt really hand me down any black "knowledge".

i never knew about weaves untill about 2 years ago, i never knew about cornrows, i didnt know that most black ppl thought that shoulder lenght was a damn near impossible length to grow their hair. didnt have a clue what a texturizer was. i never understood why black ppl were so afraid of water or rain. most of what i knew of blacks came from the beloved mtv. u can call me shelterd, but you cant call me ignorant. how can i or anyone be ignorant of something they never knew existed?

i remember the first time i met someone who had a weave , i was shocked the first thing that came out of my mouth was, how do they sew it on ur scalp.. i honestly had no clue. of course lookin back that may have been a strange question but at that moment in time, that question came about from just wanting to know.

HONEYMOCHA
11-27-2003, 05:19 AM
Jesus hair was kinky and beautiful.If I would have know what I know now about my nappy hair, I wouldn&#39;t have put a perm in my hair.Black people have beautiful kinky hair. :app

flowerchild
11-27-2003, 05:31 AM
I think it&#39;s sad that we are still talking about black and white, but I guess it&#39;s just a part of our world since it is our history. But really, white folks do not know anything about our culture, our behaviors or anything because they are not black. Just like lots of us may not be familiar with Mexicans or Asians on how they are raised, the things that they do in their culture and what not. If you notice, black folks are the only people on this earth with the hair texture that we have, every other culture has straight hair unless they have a bit of black in them. White people do not learn about us in schools...however, we learn a whole heck of a lot about them and that is why we know so much about the things that they do.

some of us....but I really do think that this lady was oblivious on our hair. Really. We have to be careful sometimes and think before we speak and not take everything as if it is an attack. She may not know anything about us as a people. It is sad to say, but true.

Maybe its time teach them.... :rainfro

uzuri
11-27-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by lalyn@Nov 1 2003, 06:00 PM
Then I asked her, do you use chemicals? She said "No, but I&#39;ve colored my hair once or twice, why?" I told her because her hair looked thin, and most white women have thick hair. She gave me a dirty look, and I just smiled at her and walked away.

I did not even think Lalyn´s answer was offensive. She stated what for her was a fact...that the lady´s hair was thin, while other women of her race was thick....She thought Lalyn would be so happy for the compliment given at the expense of black women with relaxed hair...if Lalyn felt there was some nastiness in the compliment, Then I applaude her response to the woman!! :app :app :thumbsup :thumbsup
Ignorance does not excuse nastiness!!

CrystalD
11-27-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Blackanese@Nov 3 2003, 11:28 PM

This is a little but the comment that the white women made about black women with relaxed hair was interesting---but I&#39;ve heard SOME people on nappturality dis people who relax 100x worst. Is it ok when we down our own relaxed sistas, but when they do it, its not okay.

OKAY! She obviously just saw the same thing we saw when we decided to stop relaxing. She did give a nice compliment first so I doubt she was trying to offend or be nasty. White people don&#39;t usually take offense to comments about other white people, she probably didn&#39;t realize that we often take that kind of thing personally. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s necessary to be mean and hurt someone&#39;s feelings just because they asked a dumb question.

As far as their ignorance about our hair is concerned- I think if they sat and thought about all of the black men and women they&#39;d ever seen in life and really analyzed the texture of their hair, maybe they would realize, but who would do that? And think about how much time black women spend desperately trying to hide the fact that their hair isn&#39;t straight. The idea that damn near all black women pay someone to put specially formulated LYE on their hair every 6 weeks and avoid water to hide the natural curls in every way possible for their entire lives - well would that really be the most logical conclusion if you didn&#39;t know any better? That sounds insane doesn&#39;t it?
I agree

hastings
11-27-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by flowerchild@Nov 27 2003, 12:31 AM
I really do think that this lady was oblivious on our hair. Really. We have to be careful sometimes and think before we speak and not take everything as if it is an attack. She may not know anything about us as a people. It is sad to say, but true.

I agree.

qwest
11-28-2003, 04:37 AM
I don&#39;t find it as offensive as amusing. I am in Japan right now and these people are really secluded (that&#39;s how I have decided to put it) about any culture outside their own. Many people find it hard to believe that I did not perm my hair for it to be the way it is naturally! I tell them that black people are not born with straight hair as they are. They of course point out people in entertainment world (they don&#39;t have that much exposure outside of that area) such as Janet Jackson who have straight hair. I think that it is funny but at the same time sad. It is so funny the way in Japan people perm their hair to make it nappy. I love that!

Nuchie
11-28-2003, 05:02 AM
Correct me if i&#39;m wrong but isn&#39;t lack of knowledge or education the definition of ignorance?
If this woman had no knowledge or education of our kinkified hair she is ignorant to it.
No attacks being made just simple observation, mixed with some good ole&#39; fashion sarcasm!!!!

Peace
Nuchie

Venetter
11-28-2003, 12:16 PM
Nuchie, you&#39;re absolutely correct.

Venetter

nadia
11-28-2003, 01:07 PM
laylyn:

I can understand the frustration, but that was a little harsh. lol! I would have handled that differently. Usually, I can tell when someone is being honest or just trying to be a smart azz. Sounds like she truly was curious. In those cases, I don&#39;t mind answering a few questions.

Sykee
11-28-2003, 01:56 PM
I&#39;m at university in my first year, sharing a building with mostly middle class white kids, and I&#39;d say most of them had never known a black person, let alone had any knowledge of something like hair! As often happens recently, my naps were being discussed. One (white) girl said the bigger the afro (on men), the better, and a (white) guy said he thought big fro&#39;s were kinda stupid. Only after a bit more discussion did I realise that it was because he thought that an afro, or the afro texture was artificial, and that a dude with a big fro would be a vain guy curling his hair every day!!

Sykee
11-28-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Blackanese@Nov 3 2003, 10:28 PM

This is a little but the comment that the white women made about black women with relaxed hair was interesting---but I&#39;ve heard SOME people on nappturality dis people who relax 100x worst. Is it ok when we down our own relaxed sistas, but when they do it, its not okay.

OKAY! She obviously just saw the same thing we saw when we decided to stop relaxing. She did give a nice compliment first so I doubt she was trying to offend or be nasty. White people don&#39;t usually take offense to comments about other white people, she probably didn&#39;t realize that we often take that kind of thing personally. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s necessary to be mean and hurt someone&#39;s feelings just because they asked a dumb question.

As far as their ignorance about our hair is concerned- I think if they sat and thought about all of the black men and women they&#39;d ever seen in life and really analyzed the texture of their hair, maybe they would realize, but who would do that? And think about how much time black women spend desperately trying to hide the fact that their hair isn&#39;t straight. The idea that damn near all black women pay someone to put specially formulated LYE on their hair every 6 weeks and avoid water to hide the natural curls in every way possible for their entire lives - well would that really be the most logical conclusion if you didn&#39;t know any better? That sounds insane doesn&#39;t it?
I think a lotta sistas (spesh in London where I am) are ignorant about the self hatred that goes on with whites themselves. I can count on one hand the amount of caucasian girls who don&#39;t straighten there hair on a daily basis, or spend a LOT of effort keeping it straight once they have. To my knowledge, perhaps 60% of the girls i know have wavy-ish hair, and all want bone-straight. It&#39;s a stupid ideal no matter what race

P.S. I&#39;m not being ignorant of the social issues surrounding hair and our blackness, just tryna do some highlighting!

netta1
11-28-2003, 02:17 PM
Lets just face it, there are a lot of people who are just not absorbed in the "hair thing" they don&#39;t know about it, don&#39;t really care about it and find it hard to understand. Teach the ones that are teachable for the ones that are not move on and shake the dust from your feet.

*ok this next part is off topic a little*

Its amazing how be as black people expect people to reach out and get educated about our culture, when most of us don&#39;t know even our own culture. And even more of us are not willing to study the history of another culture. I mean how many of you all study the trials and tribulations of another culture. WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES OUT HERE. I think that sometimes we as black folks still have some hurt from the past that we have processed into anger AND I also think that we are just waiting and expecting someone to say something that "sounds"crazy to us about our natural hair. They say one thing and somehow we hear another. I don&#39;t know about you all, but I would hate to be a white women-because I would not know what to ask a sista about black culture especially when it comes to black hair care. Even if my intentions were true SOME of you all would be ready to "lay hands" on me, lol.

Beryl
11-28-2003, 03:12 PM
Yeah, I might have to lay hands and to cast it out. :) Heck, the first 13 years of US traditional education is filled with various shades of white. I didn&#39;t have to make any effort to seek understanding of Europeans. Not one of my history books in the 60s and 70s adequately addressed African/Asian/Native American/Latin cultures! PULEASE!


Originally posted by LBellatrix@Nov 1 2003, 02:30 PM
People KILL me worrying about white folks. Folk act like it&#39;s still 1863 or something. Who gives a f*** what they think?

And on the flip side, who gives a f*** what black folks think when they tell you "You need to get a relaxer" or some such sh**?

:thumbsup I ignored this thread for this very reason. Further, relaxers became an ugly part of my past because I stop caring how white folks think/want/believe/do/breathe.

The white woman who made that comment is an idiot. It doesn&#39;t take my 150 IQ to know why some black women straighten their hair. Come on now. She should have just complimented the sister&#39;s hair and left it at that. Further inquisition on the motives of other blacks was where she went too far so she got the response she deserved.

Sister1
11-28-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Beryl+Nov 28 2003, 08:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Beryl @ Nov 28 2003, 08:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yeah, I might have to lay hands and to cast it out. :) Heck, the first 13 years of US traditional education is filled with various shades of white. I didn&#39;t have to make any effort to seek understanding of Europeans. Not one of my history books in the 60s and 70s adequately addressed African/Asian/Native American/Latin cultures! PULEASE!

<!--QuoteBegin-LBellatrix@Nov 1 2003, 02:30 PM
People KILL me worrying about white folks. Folk act like it&#39;s still 1863 or something. Who gives a f*** what they think?

And on the flip side, who gives a f*** what black folks think when they tell you "You need to get a relaxer" or some such sh**?

:thumbsup I ignored this thread for this very reason. Further, relaxers became an ugly part of my past because I stop caring how white folks think/want/believe/do/breathe.

The white woman who made that comment is an idiot. It doesn&#39;t take my 150 IQ to know why some black women straighten their hair. Come on now. She should have just complimented the sister&#39;s hair and left it at that. Further inquisition on the motives of other blacks was where she went too far so she got the response she deserved.[/b][/quote]
@Beryl: My sentiments exactly. You know this topic gets re-hashed in so many ways. Does anyone seriously believe that white folks sit back and agonize over what black folks think about why they tan? :doh . Do black folks go around and "tell" white folks unsolicited in a store line that repeated burning of your skin is damaging? That it may cause melenoma? That your lighter/paler skin is ok the way it is and that your skin wasn&#39;t created to be brown? I know several others have stated this: why do we care what they think? As the fictional Dirty Harry said, "does it make your day" when whites compliment you? Does it make you day when they "compliment" your natural hair and black folks don&#39;t? Why do some blacks seem to tolerate ignorant statement from white folks and proceed to "teach/educate" them about our hair, but are so dismisive and patronizing towards those black folks who don&#39;t embrace/negate their God-given hair? Ever hear of the "Stockholm Syndrome"?

I am not justifying hurtful statements that we may make toward one another in terms of wearing our hair napptural. I don&#39;t care if some white women "fight" their hair that may not be bone straight as their culture dictates. It does not carry the same 400 year historical legacy of slavery/white supremacy that has been wreaked upon folks of African descent. Exhibiting the level of "ignorance" on this woman&#39;s part is an example of white-skinned privelege at its best. If she is so curious, let her educate herself by reading some books. :nohuh

BaldJasmine
12-26-2003, 04:54 AM
This is an old topic but I just had to bring it up.

Most White people, and most Black people, know that Black folks have different hair than White people do. They know that our hair is naturally wavy and nappy.

I believe this particullar person was either genuinely stupid, or incredibly naive or maybe just socially awkward(socially retarded?).

Most White folks I have met would never say anything that stupid.

I don&#39;t believe White or Black Americans are that dumb about each others hair.

kendrajanae
12-26-2003, 05:13 AM
I just want to say that, though its true that most white people don&#39;t understand our hair, some do. And a lot of black people don&#39;t understand their hair or remember what their natural hair looks like. I&#39;ve only been transitioning for about three months and I&#39;m waiting to find out what mine looks like.

locd4life
12-26-2003, 02:02 PM
@natalie
don&#39;t be surprised...white women were getting extension way before black women could afford them. Its just harder to tell. its "normal" to see white women with long hair, when you see a black woman with long hair then it&#39;s perceived to be weaved, cause its not the "norm" to see black women with long straight hair. but they can be in denial all day, but they wear funkin&#39; weaves when we were just getting familiar.... :cen

ichephren
12-26-2003, 04:42 PM
I don&#39;t think that the white woman in question was necessarily either stupid or being deceitful. There are different types of white people living in America, many of whom have not internalized the history of racism. These are usually foreign people who have their own cultural baggage. I have to say that many whites, blacks, and other races are not very knowledgeable about the race issues that are still within Black societies. Even though America is "diverse," we still have a great separation of races such that different races do not really mix unless they are at work or in some public arena. I know that in my social group, discussion of hair or other racially specific issues do occur, but I can see how other nonmixed groups would not have such discussions since there would be no-one to bring it up. Therefore, I can understand why there is still, even today, a lot of ignorance on small things like hair. I also think that there is a difference between knowing why Whites tan versus why the majority of Black women perm. White culture is the norm while Black mentality is a specialty. As a foreigner myself, this relaxer mentality was not something that I understood. It is an unspoken assumption that white is better, I know no Black woman would come right out and say it, so it is just perpetuated unspokenly. It is deeply inbedded in Black culture, so I would understand why a random White woman would not see it as clearly as we can, especially since we have pretty much deconstructed the perm and rid ourselves of it.

Miss_G
12-26-2003, 04:49 PM
I just think it&#39;s funny that people are saying what the white woman meant or didn&#39;t mean and that Laylyn&#39;s response was harsh when no one but the 2 of them were there and could feel the vibe the other was giving off. It could have been either, she could have been being snide or curious. We don&#39;t know and b/c she put herself out there like that, she has to deal w/ whatever response she gets.

macsrcool
12-26-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Sykee@Nov 28 2003, 06:56 AM
I&#39;m at university in my first year, sharing a building with mostly middle class white kids, and I&#39;d say most of them had never known a black person, let alone had any knowledge of something like hair! As often happens recently, my naps were being discussed. One (white) girl said the bigger the afro (on men), the better, and a (white) guy said he thought big fro&#39;s were kinda stupid. Only after a bit more discussion did I realise that it was because he thought that an afro, or the afro texture was artificial, and that a dude with a big fro would be a vain guy curling his hair every day!!
Yeah last year was my first year of college. I lived in a suite with 3 Indian girls, a curly haired white girl, 2 Asian girls, and a wavy haired Mexican girl who straightened her hair every night and morning (but that is another story LOL). We were all sitting around talking and one of the Asian girls asked me whats up with my new hair style. Mind you I was letting my hair grow out and was wearing it in a bun. I was like ...um... i just put it in a bun (not really following her question...). And she was like but did you crimp it or something. LOL I was like ...um no... thats how my hair grows out of my head. And she was like "Oh really!". Everyone else seemed suprised too, well except the curly haired girl and the wavy haired girl. Honestly, a lot of people who do not grow up around Black people have no idea of Black people except for what they see on the music videos (which is a travesty!). An occational afro wig on TV is usually part of a joke skit (Gold Finger...Beyonce), so they probably do not take it seriously. The majority of Black people they see in passing probably have a stringy thin perm. So I don&#39;t think they really have any concept of Black peoples&#39; natural hair. They have no reason to think about it until they are confronted with it first hand.

~macsrcool

Serbbral
12-26-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by locd4life@Dec 26 2003, 10:02 AM
@natalie
don&#39;t be surprised...white women were getting extension way before black women could afford them. Its just harder to tell. its "normal" to see white women with long hair, when you see a black woman with long hair then it&#39;s perceived to be weaved, cause its not the "norm" to see black women with long straight hair. but they can be in denial all day, but they wear funkin&#39; weaves when we were just getting familiar.... :cen



This is soooooooooo true!

lokkin2173
12-26-2003, 07:15 PM
It&#39;s hard to know if she was being harsh with the wht women bc we were not there and ppl can still be **** based or vibe and or body language while hiding behind seemingly innocent words,
However ( I mostly work with/hang with guys) the white men that were bold enough to ask about my hair truly had no clue, and actually thought the kinky/coiliness was being done artifically since my hair was straight when they met me initially. But for the most part I think they have no clue , I mean I don&#39;t sit around pondering why alot of wht women are obsessed with being blonde, I was also surprise by all the negatively wht ppl have regarding red hair apparently unless it cherry blonde or auburn, red hair is considered very unattractive. However for the wht ppl that truely do not have a clue how can we expect them to when Blk men ( really don&#39;t realize how harsh straightening can be) nor Blk wm( doing alot of cringeing when sista&#39;s tell me I can be nappturaly bc I have "good" hair) have a very little clue themselves..

HuGrad2002
12-26-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Natalie@Nov 1 2003, 03:09 PM

I think it depends on whether they have black friends. My white colleagues used to be amazed that one day my hair was short, then the next i was sporting long braids. One believed that my hair grew overnight or something. :rolleyes But don&#39;t be fooled, once I popped into a white hairdressers and I too was amazed to see a white girl getting hair extensions being glued into her hair, :shock so they do it too.

Most of my white friends don&#39;t even remember what their natural hair colour is! It kind of works both ways. But in my opinion, it is how much they want to know/be educated in black hair.
I was also amazed that white women get extensions. I thought only black women get them. I know I am just as ignorant with white hair as they are to mine.

I was too though when this white chic was like "OHH so thats what colored hair feels like"

:mad

apricot
12-26-2003, 09:49 PM
i think lalyn was correct in her response. she saw right through that girls "innocent" inquiry. i grew up around white people and i know olnly too well how innocent their questions are. i dont want to sound bitter because i am really not. i am at the point where i realize carrying around bitterness and hatred does nothing except take years off your life.

that said, i am still AWARE. i know when someone is trying to be deliberately hurtful and rude. i know when a white girl touches my hair she is trying to see if it feels like brillo and also so she can feel smugly superior because her hair is soft and straight. i know that white girls thinks locs are dirty (a friend of mine said that a few days ago. i corrected her but i am sure she still believes they are). i know that white girls can feel threatened when a black girl bucks the trend, rejects the status quo by going natural. because maybe it means that they are not the most beautiful, the most feminine, the most coveted. i have seen white girls flip their hair aggresively as their boyfriend is breaking his neck to stare appreciatively at me and my nappy *** fro.

the fact remains that blond, straight hair and blue eyes are the prevailing beauty standard. yet women of all races are stepping up and rejecting the lye and other LIES about what is beautiful and what isnt and the standard is becoming boring, tired and uninteresting.

jeez. i sound so militant. thats what a fro will do for you. :rolleyes

Ace9
12-26-2003, 10:40 PM
I actually thought YOU were a bit harsh. I&#39;m like when most white women see so many women with hair damaged by perms, which is quite a few. They get that impression.

And furhter more she&#39;s not black to know that black women don&#39;t have hair a certain way. And she probably never had a black friend in their life.

I&#39;m sure you can find tha about 50% of white americans if not more have never associated on more than a scholastic level with a black person, even if that!

Ace9
12-26-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by apricot@Dec 26 2003, 10:49 PM
i think lalyn was correct in her response. she saw right through that girls "innocent" inquiry. i grew up around white people and i know olnly too well how innocent their questions are. i dont want to sound bitter because i am really not. i am at the point where i realize carrying around bitterness and hatred does nothing except take years off your life.

that said, i am still AWARE. i know when someone is trying to be deliberately hurtful and rude. i know when a white girl touches my hair she is trying to see if it feels like brillo and also so she can feel smugly superior because her hair is soft and straight. i know that white girls thinks locs are dirty (a friend of mine said that a few days ago. i corrected her but i am sure she still believes they are). i know that white girls can feel threatened when a black girl bucks the trend, rejects the status quo by going natural. because maybe it means that they are not the most beautiful, the most feminine, the most coveted. i have seen white girls flip their hair aggresively as their boyfriend is breaking his neck to stare appreciatively at me and my nappy *** fro.

the fact remains that blond, straight hair and blue eyes are the prevailing beauty standard. yet women of all races are stepping up and rejecting the lye and other LIES about what is beautiful and what isnt and the standard is becoming boring, tired and uninteresting.

jeez. i sound so militant. thats what a fro will do for you. :rolleyes
This statement is a valid point. I don&#39;t know the tone of the woman when she was speaking to lalyn.

And tone does change things completely. Actually entirely!

A9

RaLuvsRed
12-27-2003, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by napster@Nov 1 2003, 01:43 PM
I &#39;ll agree with Pencurls.
Before my husband and i got married,(he&#39;s white)he was under the impression black women had straight hair like white women,just not as thick.
When we got married and i eventually did the big chop,he was fascinated with my hair.LOL!!He asked me sooo many questions about it!!
Why i had been straightening it instead of leaving it natural,why ALL black women on tv had straight hair,etc etc.
:d) Anyways,he&#39;s much more educated now.
:-) One day at church,he told a black lady(a member of the church) to stop straightening her hair cos it was falling off and that she was going to be bald soon!!! :huh :shock :huh gosh!!was i embarassed!!She took offense( :huh i would have too if someone told me that)He had to apologise ,he said he was just trying to be helpful!!!

My mom in-law,her sisters,my sister&#39;s in-law all wanted to know about black hair after my big chop.LOL!!
That is too funny.

We have to remember that white people of today for the most part have never seen many black women with their hair in its natural state. So when they bump into nappy sistas they are amazed.

I have a friend who is white and when I did the big chop she thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread. Every five minutes she wanted to touch and feel it.

The more we educate the more we orchestrate. REPARATIONS NOW!!

westindiangal
12-28-2003, 12:58 AM
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s surprising that there are so many Whites out there who are uneducated about Black hair. If you think about it, where did we learn about White hair? In the media. We are bombarded with images daily that there is NO need for us to really ask questions. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Black images in the media.

Ultimately, when someone asks me a question about my hair, whether or not I think the question is dumb, I answer. As some have mentioned in this thread, I view this as an opportunity to educate.

I don&#39;t presume that every question is malintentioned, and if it is, when I answer politely and calmly that just diffuses the situation. In defense of others here on this board, I am amazed at the questions and situations that you all have encountered. My nappturalness has been an non issue from day 1... or maybe I&#39;m just clueless!

BaldJasmine
12-28-2003, 03:44 AM
I agree WestIndianGal.

I wear my hair very short and natural in a cut close to the head twa, and no one of any race really gives me a bad time about my hair being natural or very short, or acts weird about it.

They on occasion give me a compliment saying they like the short, natural style or they just don&#39;t even mention it.

It&#39;s true I live in a major metro, suburban Chicago, so maybe the people in a major league sized city are more sophidsticated than people who live in little hick towns. Maybe that is it.