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EvesDilemma
12-16-2005, 01:02 PM
http://evesdilemma.blogspot.com/2005/12/le...t-shall-we.html (http://evesdilemma.blogspot.com/2005/12/lets-break-it-down-about-heat-shall-we.html)

So, I was reading a few threads on the heat thing, and how folks keep trying to justify that it's okay to use it. And the insistence (really, the defensiveness) of how it was okay to use heat really astounded me. So I did a little research, and put a little "article" in my blog. After discussing it with Dee, she gave me permission to post it here. Hopefully we can finally kill this notion that a little heat never hurt nothing.

So let's begin with the definition of heat:

Heat, as defined by the Merriam Webster dictionary, includes the following definition that we will use for the purposes of this entry:



Heat: added energy that causes substances to rise in temperature, fuse, evaporate, expand, or undergo any of various other related changes, that flows to a body by contact with or radiation from bodies at higher temperatures, and that can be produced in a body (as by compression)[/b]


Okay, before we go any further into the topic, let's just notice the definition, particularly the bolded words. To fuse is to become blended or joined by or as if by melting together. Let's think about things that have melted in our lives and what happened when they returned to their regular state:

<div align="center">Butter-put a stick of butter out on a hot day. It melts into a puddle of buttery goodness. Now take that buttery pool and stick it in the refrigerator-does it become the beautiful even stick that it was before you put it out? Nope. It&#39;s still butter, but instead of being a block, it is a pool. And no matter how many times you try to mold it, you will never get it as symmetric as it was before you put it out on the hot day.

Ice cream-sit a bowl of ice cream, looking just like it does on the box, out on the stove while you are cooking. It melts. Now put it back in the refrigerator-does it look like the same as it did? I think the answer is obvious that it doesn&#39;t and it won&#39;t.

Melt the previously mentioned ice cream and butter again, and put them in the same bowl. Now put them in the refrigerator to cool-guess what? You can&#39;t seperate them. It&#39;s no longer just butter, no longer just ice cream, and it&#39;s not possible to separate them again 100%.

To evaporate is to convert into vapor, and to convert something into vapor, you must expel moisture from it. Things that evaporate are pretty much gone forever-water left on the ground after a rain evaporates and then is no more-you cannot reconstitute it and put it back on the ground, it is gone forever.</div>

So, if we agree that heat as defined as above is the energy that causes fusion and evaporation, we can agree that what we are talking about are permanent processes. Fusion cannot be undone-it is a union by or as if by melting: as a : a merging of diverse, distinct, or separate elements into a unified whole.

Audience, this means that the original elements no longer look like they originally did on a molecular level. They have been melted down and joined with another entity to become a completely different thing.

So, let&#39;s put this in the perspective of our hair. If we go back to the definition, we see that heat is added energy that causes substances to rise in temperature, fuse, evaporate, expand, or undergo any of various other related changes, that flows to a body (our hair) by contact with or radiation from bodies (flat irons, burning the hair straight combs, curling irons, blowdryers, et. al.) at higher temperatures.

So I ask you-why in the HECK would you use the bodies indicated to fuse, evaporate, or expand your hair, and then wonder why it isn&#39;t doing what it did prior? Don&#39;t forget the definitions of fusion and evaporation previously mentioned. You cannot reconstitute your hair after it&#39;s been damaged. Stop believing the mass marketing lies put out their by the hair care companies who are only in business to get your money. The law of physics dictate that it is not possible to put it back the way it was, AND it decays rapidly. Please note the following from a physicist website:


Fusion is what takes place when two atomic nuclei collide with enough energy to
overcome their electric repulsion and merge, forming a new type of nucleus.
Usually, the new nucleus is unstable, and decays very rapidly. [/b]
Fusion is used to create sources of energy. So, unless you are trying to figure a way around high gas prices by hot combing, burning the hair straight, blow drying, or applying heat in other forms to your hair and then putting the resulting product in your gas tank, you might as well leave the heat alone. Or, if you choose to use it after knowing what heat does to your hair...please don&#39;t say you weren&#39;t warned.

pookeylou
12-16-2005, 01:13 PM
Ok...that was the "easiest to understand explanation" of a chemical process that I have ever seen.

I get it. The visual of ice cream and butter not returning to its orgical shape...sealed it.

THANK YOU!

Mrsdawsondn
12-16-2005, 01:42 PM
Ok...that was the "easiest to understand explanation" of a chemical process that I have ever seen.

I get it. The visual of ice cream and butter not returning to its orgical shape...sealed it.

THANK YOU!
[/b]


ITA

tonyelle
12-16-2005, 01:45 PM
Nuff said!

Back at the beginning of my BC, I was using a blow dryer to dry my hair. Not combing it, but just holding it up to my hair to speed up the drying process. But I learned the hard way that heat is not my friend (except on a cold night...lol). I would look on the floor and see all my little curly q&#39;s on the floor, but still didn&#39;t see the harm. I was just thinking, "that&#39;s just natural shedding". Fast forward to now. I see a big difference in my hair since I have stopped using heat. You may see the blow dryer pinned up by my mirror in my pictures and wonder if I use it. Yeah, I do....to defog my mirrors after a shower! I have gotten some great advice about how to take care of my hair. When I am browsing albums and I run up on someone that decided to straighten, I am like wow. Some people have no effects, so people do (hince the posted thread about head destruction). Am I scared to straighten my hair...heck yeah! I have come too far in learning how to care for my hair PROPERLY to go try something else. So this post is very informative and helpful, and I hope it will be to the people that are thinking about heating their hair up. For the ones that do straighten and don&#39;t see any changes....more power to ya! But for me....no thanks!

BreezySeas
12-16-2005, 01:56 PM
The last two years I was relaxed I cut down on using heat a lot and the last 9 months 4 of my transition and 5 being natural I have not put any heat on my hair. I just let it air dry. I agree with everything you said and you know what I am going to give those cheap flat irons and curling irons away b/c I do not need them.

Poohbear215
12-16-2005, 02:44 PM
Ice cream-sit a bowl of ice cream, looking just like it does on the box, out on the stove while you are cooking. It melts. Now put it back in the refrigerator-does it look like the same as it did? I think the answer is obvious that it doesn&#39;t and it won&#39;t.

[/b]
...and the icecream doesn&#39;t taste the same either after it&#39;s been melted and frozen back up again.

Great post EvesDilemma!!! Nice analogies.

...but I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll still have some ladies who will still think it&#39;s okay to use heat regardless. :(

I had to learn the hard way by actually experiencing a heat mishap right after doing the BC in May and had to do a 2nd BC. I don&#39;t regret having to do a 2nd BC since I used heat on my new growth when I was transitioning, so the 2nd BC got rid of all the damaged hair. ^_^

Lesson learned: even if you do not notice or see damage from heat usage, it&#39;s still there and very prevalent...

Batyah
12-16-2005, 02:46 PM
:blink: interesting explanation.

LilShortRib
12-16-2005, 03:19 PM
Great topic. I will have to use those analogies. A lot of folks think I am crazy when I tell them I am too scared to use anything that emits heat on my hair... They just don&#39;t get it and I haven&#39;t found an easy explanation until now!

EvesDilemma
12-16-2005, 06:55 PM
Thanks ladies. What got me to really thinking about it was the original purposes of heat-which was never to enhance something, but to destroy something.

When we think about heating up meat, the primary goal is to destroy whatever is inside of it that may be harmful (bacteria).

When I think about the burns I would get from those implements accidentally touching my skin, I find myself wondering how anyone could think that hair, which is not alive, could recover when it takes living skin so long to recover.

I just don&#39;t get it-if you are going to do it, do it, but don&#39;t try to sell it off as not being harmful when it is. ^_^

frau
12-16-2005, 07:19 PM
i BC in 2001. since that time i have only blow dried my hair twice. i&#39;ve never had it straightened with a flaming hot tool of hair torture. i am going to disagree that one should never put heat on their hair. i think it&#39;s a styling option. there are many things that put stress on the hair such as dry combing it. my nappy hair is versatile and i have the option to straighten if i want to.

there are different degrees of heat. my daughter had her hair straightened and she looked great. from what i can tell her hair is in the same condition it was prior to getting it done. not only that, some textures of hair straighten quite easily, why should i have to be limited to wearing exclusively nappy styles just because my hair requires more heat? click on the link below:
http://public.fotki.com/peenie/dlpics/dsc00130.html
everyone in that photo has natural hair. ryan sometimes straightens her hair and sometimes she wears it curly...AND she colors it.
here is a picture of my sister with her hair straightened:
http://public.fotki.com/frau4bzna/peenie/dawn_015.html

i know many nappy people who blow dry their hair daily or routinely press their hair because they are not comfortable with wearing napps. not everyone who wants to wear a straight style is trying to make it a habit or use it as a replacement for relax1ng.

NappilyEvahAftah
12-16-2005, 07:39 PM
i BC in 2001. since that time i have only blow dried my hair twice. i&#39;ve never had it straightened with a flaming hot tool of hair torture. i am going to disagree that one should never put heat on their hair. i think it&#39;s a styling option. there are many things that put stress on the hair such as dry combing it. my nappy hair is versatile and i have the option to straighten if i want to.

there are different degrees of heat. my daughter had her hair straightened and she looked great. from what i can tell her hair is in the same condition it was prior to getting done. not only that, some textures of hair straighten quite easily, why should i have to be limited to wearing exclusively nappy styles just because my hair requires more heat? click on the link below:
http://public.fotki.com/peenie/dlpics/dsc00130.html
everyone in that photo has natural hair. ryan sometimes straightens her hair and sometimes she wears it curly...AND she colors it.

i know many nappy people who blow dry their hair daily or routinely press their hair because they are not comfortable with wearing napps. not everyone who wants to wear a straight style is trying to make it a habit or use it as a replacement for relax1ng.
[/b]


Let me chime in on this one. I&#39;m not being defensive, but I&#39;m going to say this and be done on this subject.

First off, I agree that heat styling is not good for the hair, IF the issue is hair health. Sometimes I believe that it&#39;s not JUST that. Cuz I don&#39;t see any "The Truth About Peroxide" threads. Ask folk how many of them have lost their naps (or reduced them to strands of straw), cuz of some dye/bleach. I believe the issue is the whole "why you gotta straighten your hair, anyway?" thing. Damage is damage. Whether it comes from a "hot torture tool", "creamy crack" or "creamy Chlorox".

I&#39;m not going to say I don&#39;t heat style my hair, cuz I&#39;d be lying. I have used a hood/blow dryer for convenience. I don&#39;t always have time to let my hair dry naturally, cuz it takes overnite. I&#39;ve had to wash my hair (cuz it smelled like cigarette smoke), and dry it and run off to...wherever. Ninety-five percent of the time, I wear my hair in its nappy state, with no heat applied. I also accept FULL responsibility for my hair&#39;s condition. Everyone else should do the same.

Secondly, I would NOT discuss heat styling in this forum, cuz it&#39;s just not received here. That&#39;s fine. Really. I&#39;m always amazed at the folk, who post the &#39;AWWW!! I just burned my hair, down to my skull!" threads, only to receive contempt (for the most part).

Finally, I appreciate the wealth of knowledge available here. I appreciate the mission of this forum.

Peace!

EvesDilemma
12-16-2005, 08:23 PM
Let me chime in on this one. I&#39;m not being defensive, but I&#39;m going to say this and be done on this subject.

First off, I agree that heat styling is not good for the hair, IF the issue is hair health. Sometimes I believe that it&#39;s not JUST that. Cuz I don&#39;t see any "The Truth About Peroxide" threads. Ask folk how many of them have lost their naps (or reduced them to strands of straw), cuz of some dye/bleach. I believe the issue is the whole "why you gotta straighten your hair, anyway?" thing. Damage is damage. Whether it comes from a "hot torture tool", "creamy crack" or "creamy Chlorox".

[/b]

I agree with this. I personally don&#39;t color my hair because I hear too much about the metallic elements adhering to your hair, and I&#39;m just not trying to run the risk of doing anything to damage my hair. So where I&#39;m coming from, I think that bleaching is just as bad as heat. But folks seem more willing to admit the risks and acknowledge that coloring can have that damaging effect, and do acknowledge that their hair needs extra care after they color for the reasons mentioned above. However, not everyone is willing to admit that there can and usually is irreversible damage, even small amounts, caused by heat, and it&#39;s a damage that can be avoided (unlike occassional breakage because of other reasons-you have to deliberately apply heat to your hair.)

Oh well, that&#39;s just my view, and I"m sticking with it.

meagan22
12-17-2005, 05:04 AM
I&#39;m always amazed at the folk, who post the &#39;AWWW!! I just burned my hair, down to my skull!" threads, only to receive contempt (for the most part).[/b]
:lol: @ &#39;to the skull&#39; :lol:

PoetiklyFroed
12-17-2005, 06:03 AM
Great post EvesDilemma. I agree with you all the way.
About 1 month ago I was going to flat flaming hot tool of hair torture my hair...that was until I tested one strand of hair by flat ironing it straight and then wetting it...

this was the curl pattern before: ~~~~~~~~~~~
this was the curl pattern after: ___^__^__^__ :o

Needless to say I unplugged that flat flaming hot tool of hair torture QUICKLY and then I thought about my real intentions to straighten and damage my hair....

thanks for putting the info out there..

Opportunitylocks
12-17-2005, 06:51 AM
Good information however I don&#39;t think the core of argument is heat damage. Heat damages the hair EVERY time you use it be it twice a year, every bluemoon every week etc. That is a natural undisputed fact thats why there all all those "heat protectors" for the hair are on the market. The real core of the argument is all this versitilaty talk. Apparently there are two diffrent kinds of naturals those who belive that our hair can be kept as is without heat and still be versitle and those that believe that our hair is the most versitile on the planet and shouldn&#39;t be limited to napps only if we so choose. Neither is wrong and neither is right if your a grown woman and you wanna put hot iron or Lye in your head or keep it as nature in tended, then thats youre business- However no body can sit here and say that lye and hot iron is the healthest way to go because it is not.

This is where the argument goes sour for folks choosing the versitilty of straight hair often try to say " well with the right tools and products you&#39;re hair can be just as healthy using heat or lye". NO IT CAN&#39;T. Altering your hair&#39;s texture or color is damaging period. Heck even henna can be a hot mess if your not careful. I just want grown butt black women to aknowledge and admitt this choice ain&#39;t the healthiest or best for my hair. And that (and heres the BIG truth that needs to be said) Even if I choose to alter my texture because I like the style or color, if push came to shove I STILL LIKE MY NAPPS/ original hair color underneath and ain&#39;t afraid to show it now and again in its original state. My bottom line is I have no beef with sistahs that choose to alter their hair. I just think in order to make it a true choice you gotta come clean about some stuff like black hair politics and how us as black people view our hair. It is that deep as some folks say weither you think it is or not. When I went natrual I thought is wans&#39;t that deep either until you start to hear comments and pratices that make you wonder a thing or two about a thing or two on this stuff we say is just hair. Sorry for rambling and bad spelling just had somethin to say lol.

Doggone Right!
12-17-2005, 07:34 AM
Wow. This topic is interesting. :pop:

charizma00
12-17-2005, 07:57 AM
I just don&#39;t understand why were ALWAYS talking about this. Everybody and their momma know that heat damages your hair BUT no matter what some people will continue to "heat" their hair. Okay whatever. I think it&#39;s just funny how people get pissy upset over this. It&#39;s your head, you know the risks, do you but don&#39;t complain when your hair fallin out and if it doesn&#39;t even better.

hathor6
12-17-2005, 12:34 PM
Personally, I don&#39;t have an issue with blow-drying. I never had problems with a blow-dryer. My only exception is when my body changes hear and there which makes my skin and hair go out of wack with dryness for some reason. And I am talking all over my body just not the head area. I think blow-drying once a week is not bad. Doing it everyday can be.

I sort of object to hot-combing because you can&#39;t control the combs temperature. Many times I burned my hair because I thought that the comb was not too hot (just warm) and safe to hot-comb. Not all of the time the metal smokes when it is hot. So my hair sizzles off because I thought the comb was "cool" enough to comb.

Flat irons and electric irons? I am lukewarm on this. I rarely get it done to my head. It is a holiday hair-do thing for me. So since I rarely do it, it is not that bad to me because of the infrequent use.

I love my blow-dryer. No one can convince me to give that up when I never had any problems like other people claim that they do or witness. Since I am locking now, I don&#39;t use it for blow-outs but to dry my head because I never let my hair air-dry during the winter. I wash my hair once a week so that is how often I will use it.

Again, I am not a "healthy" hair addict. I see hair as a styling thing. I treat my locks badly. To part my fuzz, I tear my hair apart WHEN DRY. And when I mean tear, I mean hair breaking off. Hair is dead to me so...how "healthy" can you get it to be? However, I don&#39;t want damaged looking hair. Therefore, as long as my hair does not look damaged (and feel damaged) I really don&#39;t give a fly about the scientific conditions this product or that hair tool does to it really.

Mae
12-17-2005, 04:02 PM
Again, I am not a "healthy" hair addict. I see hair as a styling thing. I treat my locks badly. To part my fuzz, I tear my hair apart WHEN DRY. And when I mean tear, I mean hair breaking off. Hair is dead to me so...how "healthy" can you get it to be? However, I don&#39;t want damaged looking hair. Therefore, as long as my hair does not look damaged (and feel damaged) I really don&#39;t give a fly about the scientific conditions this product or that hair tool does to it really.
[/b]

I agree. I mostly treat my hair well, but sometimes I put gunk in it (recently vaseline), I seperate a napp dry (argh) or I apply some heat to it. None of these things have damaged my hair to the extent that I had to just chop it all off. The only thing in the past that has damaged it was putting excessive color in it...my hair broke off, and the texture changed....so it is unlikely that I will ever do it again. My fragile temple hair was broken off once by a young assistant stylist pulling my hair too tight while she blowdried (she just tore parts of my hair out......) but that had a lot more to do with pressure than with the heat ......

I think about it like this....I know that giving up meat, pop, sugar, and refined carbs would be the healthiest for my body....but I am not going to do it.....I don&#39;t eat fried food, lots of cakes and cookies, and tons of meat....so I am healthier than a lot of my peers as a result....I have found my happy medium with my hair and with my body, a little junk food, a little heat....I will survive.....my hair won&#39;t fall out and I won&#39;t kneel over from a heart attack......I hope........ ;)

Portae
12-17-2005, 04:29 PM
I am just so tired of these threads which seek to "enlighten" us on the damaging effects of heat. Is heat damaging? Of course it is. But doesn&#39;t everyone "pick their poison" to a certain extent? Why don&#39;t we have repeated lectures geared towards the women who color their hair, or use paraben-containing products, or "natural" products without preservatives (i.e. full of bacteria), or braid too tightly, or don&#39;t wash their hair often enough? Why do we refuse to acknowledge that there is a full spectrum of possibilities between "healthy" and "unhealthy" hair practices? Do I flat flaming hot tool of hair torture my hair? No. I love my hair and all of the kinks and curls. Do I use my dryer set on warm/cool with a diffuser to dry my hair before going out into the Chicago winter, or perhaps sit under a hooded dryer for 15 minutes? Hell yes. Do I bump up my deep conditioning treatments in the winter to compensate for this? Of course. No, I&#39;m not ignorant to the effects of my limited use of indirect heat, but part of being informed means being able to make INFORMED CHOICES about my hair.

napturallyme
12-17-2005, 04:35 PM
I just don&#39;t understand why were ALWAYS talking about this. Everybody and their momma know that heat damages your hair BUT no matter what some people will continue to "heat" their hair. Okay whatever. I think it&#39;s just funny how people get pissy upset over this. It&#39;s your head, you know the risks, do you but don&#39;t complain when your hair fallin out and if it doesn&#39;t even better.
[/b]

ITA If we aren&#39;t allowed to talk about heat on here, no need to keep mentioning it whether you are for using it or against using. We have the pinned topic and all the heat damage topics in one section now. This whole topic is overdone.

Cherbaby
12-18-2005, 03:34 AM
Exactly what I was thinking. I always wondered why coloring and product type aren&#39;t really frowned upon and why straigtening is. I haven&#39;t used heat on my hair but I have done things that are just as damanging...impatiently tugging at my hair when I&#39;m rushing; not deep conditioning; playing with my hair until it tangles; lack of protective styles, etc. I personally don&#39;t see the big deal with heat if it&#39;s done once in a blue moon. To me it sounds a lot better than dying and redying roots but that&#39;s just my opinion. Is heat use looked down upon because it is associated with straightening hair like a re.laxer?




I am just so tired of these threads which seek to "enlighten" us on the damaging effects of heat. Is heat damaging? Of course it is. But doesn&#39;t everyone "pick their poison" to a certain extent? Why don&#39;t we have repeated lectures geared towards the women who color their hair, or use paraben-containing products, or "natural" products without preservatives (i.e. full of bacteria), or braid too tightly, or don&#39;t wash their hair often enough? Why do we refuse to acknowledge that there is a full spectrum of possibilities between "healthy" and "unhealthy" hair practices? Do I flat flaming hot tool of hair torture my hair? No. I love my hair and all of the kinks and curls. Do I use my dryer set on warm/cool with a diffuser to dry my hair before going out into the Chicago winter, or perhaps sit under a hooded dryer for 15 minutes? Hell yes. Do I bump up my deep conditioning treatments in the winter to compensate for this? Of course. No, I&#39;m not ignorant to the effects of my limited use of indirect heat, but part of being informed means being able to make INFORMED CHOICES about my hair.
[/b]

NappilyEvahAftah
12-18-2005, 03:43 AM
Is heat use looked down upon because it is associated with straightening hair like a re.laxer?
[/b]

Yes.

xayide79
12-18-2005, 03:44 AM
Exactly what I was thinking. I always wondered why coloring and product type aren&#39;t really frowned upon and why straigtening is. I haven&#39;t used heat on my hair but I have done things that are just as damanging...impatiently tugging at my hair when I&#39;m rushing; not deep conditioning; playing with my hair until it tangles; lack of protective styles, etc. I personally don&#39;t see the big deal with heat if it&#39;s done once in a blue moon. To me it sounds a lot better than dying and redying roots but that&#39;s just my opinion. Is heat use looked down upon because it is associated with straightening hair like a re.laxer?


<div class='quotemain'>
I am just so tired of these threads which seek to "enlighten" us on the damaging effects of heat. Is heat damaging? Of course it is. But doesn&#39;t everyone "pick their poison" to a certain extent? Why don&#39;t we have repeated lectures geared towards the women who color their hair, or use paraben-containing products, or "natural" products without preservatives (i.e. full of bacteria), or braid too tightly, or don&#39;t wash their hair often enough? Why do we refuse to acknowledge that there is a full spectrum of possibilities between "healthy" and "unhealthy" hair practices? Do I flat flaming hot tool of hair torture my hair? No. I love my hair and all of the kinks and curls. Do I use my dryer set on warm/cool with a diffuser to dry my hair before going out into the Chicago winter, or perhaps sit under a hooded dryer for 15 minutes? Hell yes. Do I bump up my deep conditioning treatments in the winter to compensate for this? Of course. No, I&#39;m not ignorant to the effects of my limited use of indirect heat, but part of being informed means being able to make INFORMED CHOICES about my hair.
[/b]
[/b][/quote]

:horse:

Because it&#39;s been explained already in several topics (example: http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.ph...474&hl=hair+dye (http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=66474&hl=hair+dye) ). People don&#39;t dye their hair to change their texture. People don&#39;t use parabens to change their texture. There are articles and posts on the dangers of certain chemicals in hair products and safer ways to dye your hair. But since neither are intended to alter your texture, they are ok to discuss.

Portae
12-18-2005, 04:44 AM
But that leads to my question: If I&#39;m not using the dryer to change the texture of my hair (i.e. I&#39;m not using a comb attachment, not pulling it straight while I blast it), then is the "no-heat-because-it-changes-texture" argument still applicable? What if I&#39;m actually waving the dryer around my head to....(gasp)....DRY MY HAIR?

Shanna
12-18-2005, 05:10 AM
But that leads to my question: If I&#39;m not using the dryer to change the texture of my hair (i.e. I&#39;m not using a comb attachment, not pulling it straight while I blast it), then is the "no-heat-because-it-changes-texture" argument still applicable? What if I&#39;m actually waving the dryer around my head to....(gasp)....DRY MY HAIR?
[/b]

This has been adressed before also: the Real Deal (http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67407&hl=). For the record there are posts that point out the harm of hair dye, parabens, various ingredients, etc. we have the information here about all of that. And again, rarely do i see posts blasting people for just sitting under a hooded dryer. <_< We do acknowledge that it can be harmful and that there are alternatives. But this particluar site has always drawn it&#39;s line at chemicals, heat, and straightening. With that so clearly presented, a lot of us who *choose* to post here are likely to agree and draw their lines there too. You can find passionate people here who reject color, parabens, and only use handmade products too. And I&#39;m sure if Dee decides she wants to really push those, the membership would change and reflect that and there will be a lot more pressure from members to only use handmade products. That isn&#39;t a bad thing. If the site did start to push those, I can choose to agree or not. I use them in my personal life or not, I know the consequences. but I won&#39;t go pushing my own "I wanna use parabens" agenda on the site when it is clearly against it and they present 50 valid facts on why parabens are damaging.

hathor6
12-18-2005, 10:57 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
Is heat use looked down upon because it is associated with straightening hair like a re.laxer?
[/b]

Yes.
[/b][/quote]


Funny thing about people talking about heat is associated with straigtening the hair because if you r.elax you got a good arguement. If you blowdry,flaming hot tool of hair torture press or use a flat flaming hot tool of hair torture...once you wash your hair or humidity hits you a$$ still gonna have nappy hair. :lol: I can&#39;t see how the nappy fundamentalist can&#39;t see that. Hot tools don&#39;t change your head from NOT being nappy. Perhaps it can damage your naps with inproper use but you will just have damaged nappy hair. There are so many ways to damage nappy hair besides hot tools. Really it is.

I am not gonna get tight panties of temporary washed out straightened hair. Hell, unless you flaming hot tool of hair torture really hared (really hot) your hair can&#39;t get that straight as a p.erm. I have seen blow-out that still look like a darn afro and looks like black hair. As long as someone wants to keep the aesthetics of black looking care I don&#39;t care what they do with it.

If someone is trying to achieve super duper bone straight hair with a heat tool all the time, then you got a good arguement. Otherwise, this hot tool arguement is so nappy extremist to me.

deecoily
12-18-2005, 11:27 AM
Listen.

Don&#39;t come onto my website and call ME a "nappy extremist." You don&#39;t know what you&#39;re talking about and I&#39;ve just about had enough of this rabble.

When you set up your own website and pay the bills you can say whatever you like on it. But this is MY space and MY philosophy is the basis for Nappturality.com. Not yours.

Continue to promote heat straightening on my website and see where it gets you.

~Dee~

freelocks
12-18-2005, 11:42 AM
Wow....................um
To each her own.

I like this site for its variety of topics and opinions. We all don&#39;t walk the same path and it is interesting to see which road is taken by all in here.
I don&#39;t care for heated appliances (anymore). I packed them away. However, I will still use (if I need to) my heated bonnet to dry my hair. I just washed and set my hair with rods. I am going to the movies in about 5-6 hours. If my hair isn&#39;t dry on its own by then, I will be under the bonnet to speed up the drying process.

BBeauty
12-18-2005, 01:03 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
But that leads to my question: If I&#39;m not using the dryer to change the texture of my hair (i.e. I&#39;m not using a comb attachment, not pulling it straight while I blast it), then is the "no-heat-because-it-changes-texture" argument still applicable? What if I&#39;m actually waving the dryer around my head to....(gasp)....DRY MY HAIR?
[/b]

This has been adressed before also: the Real Deal (http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67407&hl=). For the record there are posts that point out the harm of hair dye, parabens, various ingredients, etc. we have the information here about all of that. And again, rarely do i see posts blasting people for just sitting under a hooded dryer. <_< We do acknowledge that it can be harmful and that there are alternatives. But this particluar site has always drawn it&#39;s line at chemicals, heat, and straightening. With that so clearly presented, a lot of us who *choose* to post here are likely to agree and draw their lines there too. You can find passionate people here who reject color, parabens, and only use handmade products too. And I&#39;m sure if Dee decides she wants to really push those, the membership would change and reflect that and there will be a lot more pressure from members to only use handmade products. That isn&#39;t a bad thing. If the site did start to push those, I can choose to agree or not. I use them in my personal life or not, I know the consequences. but I won&#39;t go pushing my own "I wanna use parabens" agenda on the site when it is clearly against it and they present 50 valid facts on why parabens are damaging.
[/b][/quote]

:smil3f72836ee752e:

NappilyEvahAftah
12-18-2005, 01:07 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Is heat use looked down upon because it is associated with straightening hair like a re.laxer?
[/b]

Yes.
[/b][/quote]


Funny thing about people talking about heat is associated with straigtening the hair because if you r.elax you got a good arguement. If you blowdry,flaming hot tool of hair torture press or use a flat flaming hot tool of hair torture...once you wash your hair or humidity hits you a$$ still gonna have nappy hair. :lol: I can&#39;t see how the nappy fundamentalist can&#39;t see that. Hot tools don&#39;t change your head from NOT being nappy. Perhaps it can damage your naps with inproper use but you will just have damaged nappy hair. There are so many ways to damage nappy hair besides hot tools. Really it is.

I am not gonna get tight panties of temporary washed out straightened hair. Hell, unless you flaming hot tool of hair torture really hared (really hot) your hair can&#39;t get that straight as a p.erm. I have seen blow-out that still look like a darn afro and looks like black hair. As long as someone wants to keep the aesthetics of black looking care I don&#39;t care what they do with it.

If someone is trying to achieve super duper bone straight hair with a heat tool all the time, then you got a good arguement. Otherwise, this hot tool arguement is so nappy extremist to me.
[/b][/quote]

BTW, my "yes" response was not meant to imply that I believe that, cuz I don&#39;t. I was stating that I believe that&#39;s the real deal, and not "damage".

afrobeauty77
12-18-2005, 01:12 PM
Listen.

Don&#39;t come onto my website and call ME a "nappy extremist." You don&#39;t know what you&#39;re talking about and I&#39;ve just about had enough of this rabble.

When you set up your own website and pay the bills you can say whatever you like on it. But this is MY space and MY philosophy is the basis for Nappturality.com. Not yours.

Continue to promote heat straightening on my website and see where it gets you.

~Dee~
[/b]

:smil3f72836ee752e:

That is the part that some ladies don&#39;t get, if they want to advocate or rationalize the use of heat then this is not the place for them, period.

Ketchup
12-18-2005, 03:26 PM
Interesting analogy..

Shanna
12-18-2005, 04:48 PM
Listen.

Don&#39;t come onto my website and call ME a "nappy extremist." You don&#39;t know what you&#39;re talking about and I&#39;ve just about had enough of this rabble.

When you set up your own website and pay the bills you can say whatever you like on it. But this is MY space and MY philosophy is the basis for Nappturality.com. Not yours.

Continue to promote heat straightening on my website and see where it gets you.

~Dee~
[/b]


Someone should post this in that other thread too. :smil3f72836ee752e:

Portae
12-18-2005, 07:01 PM
This whole thread seems a bit contrived for me. I support Dee&#39;s policy of no heat, which is why i would never begin a thread or contribute a post that mentioned using heat. However, I do feel a bit pissed when a random poster decides to lecture the ignorant masses, speaking authoritatively and using analogies that are a bit questionable. I personally feel that the original post was written in such a way as to invite debate, and yet when that debate follows, it suddenly turns into a reiteration of the same thing that&#39;s taking place in multiple threads. Heat is bad. But when you start using the hair-as-ice cream metaphor to support your sweeping generalization, I&#39;m going to step in and say something. Good idea; bad execution. I don&#39;t think that myself or any other poster have argued that heat is good or non-damaging; my point was to suggest that the issue is just a bit more nuanced than the OP suggested. Even Dee herself admitted in another thread that she wasn&#39;t certain about the effects of certain types of dryer attachments. That doesn&#39;t mean that she&#39;s advocating for them, but she at least had the decency to avoid making a blanket generalization about something that she didn&#39;t have total knowledge on. And I suppose that&#39;s what I appreciate about Dee-she backs up her assertions with facts or she doesn&#39;t make them at all. Again, I find myself disturbed when an attempt to introduce complexity into an issue becomes interpreted as something else.

EvesDilemma
12-18-2005, 07:40 PM
This whole thread seems a bit contrived for me. I support Dee&#39;s policy of no heat, which is why i would never begin a thread or contribute a post that mentioned using heat. However, I do feel a bit pissed when a random poster decides to lecture the ignorant masses, speaking authoritatively and using analogies that are a bit questionable. I personally feel that the original post was written in such a way as to invite debate, and yet when that debate follows, it suddenly turns into a reiteration of the same thing that&#39;s taking place in multiple threads. Heat is bad. But when you start using the hair-as-ice cream metaphor to support your sweeping generalization, I&#39;m going to step in and say something. Good idea; bad execution. I don&#39;t think that myself or any other poster have argued that heat is good or non-damaging; my point was to suggest that the issue is just a bit more nuanced than the OP suggested. Even Dee herself admitted in another thread that she wasn&#39;t certain about the effects of certain types of dryer attachments. That doesn&#39;t mean that she&#39;s advocating for them, but she at least had the decency to avoid making a blanket generalization about something that she didn&#39;t have total knowledge on. And I suppose that&#39;s what I appreciate about Dee-she backs up her assertions with facts or she doesn&#39;t make them at all. Again, I find myself disturbed when an attempt to introduce complexity into an issue becomes interpreted as something else.
[/b]


This random poster (who you can address directly) corresponded with Dee before posting, who gave me her blessing to do so, and it was done in response to all of the threads where folks talk about a little heat never hurt nothing.

If you don&#39;t agree, that&#39;s your opinion, but last I checked, you aren&#39;t in charge and don&#39;t have the right to question my reasoning or even my right to post-which by calling me a "random" poster you just did. If Dee didn&#39;t want me to post it, she would have told me no. But the fact is, I sent her this before I put it here out of respect for "her house", something some individuals around here seem to have a lack of-so obviously she didn&#39;t have too much of a problem with me putting it out there. So if you take issue with it being allowed to be here, take it up with the owner of the house.

And for someone who hasn&#39;t argued for heat, you are really getting defensive about this whole thing. If you didn&#39;t agree, just don&#39;t post. That&#39;s what I do when I see something I really just don&#39;t agree with or just irritates me-I keep my cybermouth shut.

Button2004
12-18-2005, 07:55 PM
<span style="font-family:Tahoma">I want to make a statement, but I dont want to come off as rude or mean. In a couple of threads I have noticed that there are people who seem to be terribly dismayed that we do not support the straightening of hair and that we dont come down as hard on coloring/dyeing as we do on straight hair. Well, as has been stated many, many, many, times...if you want to talk about straightening and such there are plenty of other websites for it.

Like Shan2001 stated in another thread (one that sounds very much like this one...) What do you expect? What do you want? I am personally, starting to get a little confused. Do those who post about how mean and horrible NP members sincerely want changes on NP?

Like I said in another thread, NP doesn&#39;t play games. Coloring/dyeing do not cause the hair anywhere near as much damage as heating/straightening does.

And Dee has said many times if you dont like the way NP rolls, then it isn&#39;t for you. Maybe some day in the future you may return and come to appreciate it.

In the meanwhile, why not make constructive criticism and pm Dee herself about the color/dyeing vs. straightening issue. Instead of coming into threads like this all :angry: and <_< .

As for the OP, thank you. </span>

EvesDilemma
12-18-2005, 08:01 PM
<span style="font-family:Tahoma">I want to make a statement, but I dont want to come off as rude or mean. In a couple of threads I have noticed that there are people who seem to be terribly dismayed that we do not support the straightening of hair and that we dont come down as hard on coloring/dyeing as we do on straight hair. Well, as has been stated many, many, many, times...if you want to talk about straightening and such there are plenty of other websites for it.

Like Shan2001 stated in another thread (one that sounds very much like this one...) What do you expect? What do you want? I am personally, starting to get a little confused. Do those who post about how mean and horrible NP members sincerely want changes on NP?

Like I said in another thread, NP doesn&#39;t play games. Coloring/dyeing do not cause the hair anywhere near as much damage as heating/straightening does.

And Dee has said many times if you dont like the way NP rolls, then it isn&#39;t for you. Maybe some day in the future you may return and come to appreciate it.

In the meanwhile, why not make constructive criticism and pm Dee herself about the color/dyeing vs. straightening issue. Instead of coming into threads like this all :angry: and <_< .

As for the OP, thank you. </span>
[/b]


Thanks Def. Also, off topic, but that bunny in your sig cracks me and my son up-he loves to sit here and watch me on this just to see it.

Button2004
12-18-2005, 08:07 PM
<span style="font-family:Tahoma">@ EvesDilemma-->awww, I love him too. Didn&#39;t know he had such devoted fans. :wub: </span>

mixed_with_confused_hair
12-18-2005, 08:35 PM
I&#39;m not for or against heat. I haven&#39;t used it in a very long time on my hair but that&#39;s just coincidence. I&#39;m not saying I would or wouldn&#39;t I just haven&#39;t I just wanted to weigh in because I&#39;ve read all the threads and it seems as if the discussion is degenerating into something a little nasty so here&#39;s my two cents. If it&#39;s such a hot button topic how come everyone just doesn&#39;t agree to leave it alone. I mean we are all grown here and if we want to use heat we are going to do it and if we choose not to then that&#39;s our path to walk as well so to get upset about it is pointless. The information is available for those who want to know. But for some it&#39;s like the old saying goes Ignorance Is Bliss

deecoily
12-18-2005, 11:23 PM
Thank you all for participating. This thread is now being archived into the Heat forum for posterity.

~Dee~