Report: Atkins was OBESE... [Archive] - Nappturality Black Natural Hair Care Forums

jennifer ^v^

02-19-2004, 06:31 PM

I'm sorry about that; that article from the Atkins site really...doesn't address anything about reasons that he could've been obese at his death. :doh

That brings me to my next question, though: Has Atkins' obesity been concretely attributed to something at this point? Out of all of the articles that I read, and after visiting the Atkins and PCRM websites, I'm not sure what to think. It seems as if the parties who are against the Atkins diet are saying that his obesity was diet-related, and the parties who are for the Atkins diet are saying that his obesity stemmed from fluid retention during his stay in the hospital. Now, I've found a bunch of evidence stating that Atkins suffered from a heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension *before* his death, but I'm not sure if even that was related to his diet as a doctor from the Atkin's camp has said that his heart disease was attributed to a viral infection.

Is an impartial party going to be brought in to really figure out what happened to Atkins? In all honesty, given both of their track records for promoting their own agendas, I hesitate to believe anything that either the Physicians Commitee for Responsible Medicine or the Atkins Physicians Council has to say about why Atkins was obese when he died.

tdhayes

02-19-2004, 07:08 PM

EVERYTHING TAKEN INTO THE BODY HAS AN AFFECT ON THE BODY!!! Regardless of how he got this supposed viral infection, his diet definitely played a part in the heart disease as well as the hypertension and the congestive heart failure. I CAN see congestive heart failure resulting as a result of an infection because my mom had it as an allergic reaction to a new medication. However, I don't remember ever reading the viral infections are linked with heart disease. THAT's why I wanted to know what his arteries looked like. We may never know the truth about this man. However, YOU are smart enough to know that foods teeming with saturated fats are NOT good for the body, you're smart enough to know that a balanced diet high in fresh fruits and veggies are better for your body than eating tons of foods containing refined sugars, etc. There is a wealth of information available to help you improve your lifestyle, but you have to use it!!!

AFashionSlave

02-19-2004, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 19 2004, 02:08 PM
EVERYTHING TAKEN INTO THE BODY HAS AN AFFECT ON THE BODY!!!Â Regardless of how he got this supposed viral infection, his diet definitely played a part in the heart disease as well as the hypertension and the congestive heart failure.Â I CAN see congestive heart failure resulting as a result of an infection because my mom had it as an allergic reaction to a new medication.Â However, I don't remember ever reading the viral infections are linked with heart disease.Â THAT's why I wanted to know what his arteries looked like.Â We may never know the truth about this man.Â However, YOU are smart enough to know that foods teeming with saturated fats are NOT good for the body, you're smart enough to know that a balanced diet high in fresh fruits and veggies are better for your body than eating tons of foods containing refined sugars, etc.Â There is a wealth of information available to help you improve your lifestyle, but you have to use it!!!
Tdhayes,

ITA!

:offtopic I know this topic is about Dr. Adkins but Iâ€™m gonna go way off topic on this one.

I spent a lot of time in early twenties starving myself, and doing some crazy diets. A lot of that time was spent on some form of the Adkins diet. Scientifically I do not know how the Adkins diet works but I do know that my body reacted the same way to the Adkins diet as it did to starvation.

This is what happened to my body when I was starving myself:
Constipation, smelly ketone breath, smelly ketone urine, sallow skin, no energy, dangerously fast weight loss, high cholesterol, and hair loss, missed periods, and extreme sugar cravings.

This is what happened to my body when I was on the Adkins diet:
Constipation, smelly ketone breath, smelly ketone urine, sallow skin, no energy, dangerously fast weight loss, high cholesterol, and hair loss, missed periods, and extreme sugar cravings.

Notice â€“ that there is no difference in the way my body reacted to both.

Again, I am no scientist but it seems to me that the Adkins diet tricks your body into starvation by eliminating the foods that your body would normally burn first to give you energy, therefore your body ends up burning itâ€™s own fat reserves so it can energize itself. The problem with burning your own fat reserves is that it forces your heart and kidneys to overwork themselves.

I am not going to lie to you. The Adkins diet does work for short-term success, but if you do it long enough YOUR BODY WILL FIGURE IT OUT. The human body is not just a bunch of stupid organs packed snug into itâ€™s skin. The human body will try to figure out ways to keep itself from self-destructing. I know Iâ€™ve seen my own body do some strange things. I am almost 5â€™ 10â€ and I also have a large frame. When I was on the Adkins diet I got down to my lowest weight of about 115 lbs., all of a sudden my body started to fatten itself up although I was eating the same amount of food. The human body is so smart that when I got too thin my body also grew a thin layer of fur all over itself just so I could stay warm.

Iâ€™m not judging you ladies on the Adkins diet so please donâ€™t take it that way. But the truth is that you do not have to diet to loose weight. Weight loss will happen on itâ€™s own as a result of healthy eating. If you want long-term weight loss you are going to have to change your lifestyle and the way you think about food. Iâ€™ve been slowly changing my diet for the better and I have lost 15 lbs. with no effort, no dieting, and no starvation, and no stinky pee pee. :lol

If you ladies need some type formal of diet the way I used to, I suggest that you try something like weight watchers. Weight watchers is pretty simple and healthy. It basically requires 5 fruits of veggies, three lean proteins, a few complex carbs, lots of water, exercise, and eating in moderation.

Here is a picture of me after my body started to fatten itself up on itâ€™s own.

*photo removed*

In this picture I am about 130 lbs. Although I appear to be in the picture of health I always had some sort of cold or flu back then.

Here is a more recent picture of myself.
*photo removed*
In this picture I am about 170 lbs., but my body is trimming down on itâ€™s own because of a healthy diet. and excercise My face has always been chubby, but check out the weight difference in my arms. I posted these photos to show you all that extreme diets do not work for the long term goal and you will eventually gain the weight back.

I have no idea if I will ever be 130lbs again but I do know that extreme diets are not healthy and I will not be doing them anymore!

If you ladies are not careful you could end up doing some serious harm to your bodies, besides who the hell wants to eat meat all the dam time anyway.

:razz Phew...now back to the topic.

photos removed because I received a nasty IM from another nappturality member

tdhayes

02-19-2004, 09:00 PM

@Afashionslave
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-19-2004, 10:53 PM

AFS...GURL...i stopped chewing my salad while reading your post!

that was EXCELLENT and keep up the great work! :app

AFashionSlave

02-20-2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 19 2004, 05:53 PM
AFS...GURL...i stopped chewing my salad while reading your post!

that was EXCELLENT and keep up the great work! :app
:heart Thanks girl!

feepee

02-20-2004, 08:52 PM

AFashionSlave- thank you so much for sharing. I hope u don't mind but i'm gunna forward this to a friend of mine. it seems most of my friends are hooked on these fad diets and i keep trying to tell them that stuff is bad for your health. at least now i can use your example to show them it's not just ME being a know-it-all. Lately (since i've started to trim down, look and feel better) one of my home girls' is acting like i'm looking down on her cuz i try to explain to her the benefits of healthy eating and exercise.

I thought that by being an example, my friends who are dealing with weight issues could see that it's possible to enjoy life and good health without starvation (which is counter-productive anyways). But it's hard to help someone realize that THEY hold the key to good health. Stop waiting for the magic pill, or fad diet.

jennifer ^v^

02-20-2004, 09:05 PM

Thank you for your responses, tdhayes and A Fashion Slave. The reason I was asking those questions is that I know a lot of people who are going into the Atkins diet with pre-existing heart problems (amongst other things that can potentially be kicked into overdrive from doing Atkins), and I've been trying to gather all the information I can to give to them before they start--or before they get too far gone. I had a feeling that this diet (or "way of eating") might eventually lead to problems or regaining the lost weight, and I wanted to get as much information about the diet, the people who have been on the diet, and what happened to them afterwards.

I really hope that your experience will give these people a new perspective on Atkins, A Fashion Slave, so I'm just going to suggest to them to come here and read what you said. I usually don't get so adamant about people and their health, but some people I care about (my mother being one of them) have expressed interest in Atkins, so I've been pushing a lot of my whole foods/health oriented books at them to hopefully, well, show them that there's another way for them to lose weight--and to just be overall healthier people--than Atkins.

Again, thank you. :)

calandra

02-20-2004, 09:22 PM

That article about Atkins is a CROCK! He retained over 60 pounds of water weight after being in a coma for nearly a month. I don't understand all of the fury against Atkins. I have done Atkins for over a year. I have been able to maintain a healthy weight without starvation AND my blood pressure and cholesterol has been down. I went in for an appointment recently, and my doctor said my numbers were "beautiful."

What I really don't understand is that when there are people hooked on Ephedra and stapling their stomachs, why people are focused so negatively against Atkins.

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-20-2004, 09:45 PM

ephedra is being dealt with...especially since the death of the baseball player...
however, you can not really place atkins next to the other two (ephedra and stomach stapling) because the 2 come with warnings.

people are warned on the bottle of items containing ephedra..i would think before an actual procedure of stomach stapling that consultations are done. the people should then be givent the pros and cons and what to expect.

what do we hear about atkins? or any other diet gimmick/fad out there today? do they readily tell us of possible side effects? short and long term? instead...they are pushing..LOSE WEIGHT NOW!...$$$$ :smug

calandra

02-20-2004, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 20 2004, 09:45 PM

what do we hear about atkins? or any other diet gimmick/fad out there today? do they readily tell us of possible side effects? short and long term? instead...they are pushing..LOSE WEIGHT NOW!...$$$$ :smug
One thing that absolutely drives me crazy about the anti-Atkins crusade is there is a lot of disinformation spread out there. Anyone who is knowledgeable about Dr. Atkins and his work knows that he did not consider himself to be a "diet doctor." He was always more concerned about treating the epidemic of diabetes that has grown in the country as our consumption of sugar and empty carbs has increased over the past 30 years. Diabetes and obesity are linked, so in order to treat diabetes, you have to get people to lose weight. Of course, people naturally focused on the weight loss aspect, because, as we see with Ephedra and gastric bypass, many people are willing to sacrifice their health to be thin.

There are no warnings on Atkins, because there are no bad side effects. This diet has been studied more than any other, and people on it have consistently done better on it ona whole than other more conventional diets.

My problem is that I feel that the Atkins diet is unfairly singled out. I have respect for others and their choices. I don't go around slamming other people's ways of eating and spreading disinformation about it. I would just like it if the Atkins plan had the same courtesy.

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-20-2004, 10:19 PM

Atkins...the side effects (http://www.ivillage.co.uk/health/ghealth/nutrit/articles/0,,181039_611632,00.html)

may i also ask that you provide links to the proof of the diet being studied more than any other. so that if i am wrong about something i can be made aware...

also, i (for one) never cared nor doubted his title as doctor or wanted to know what kind. (of no significance to me) however you state that "He was always more concerned about treating the epidemic of diabetes that has grown in the country as our consumption of sugar and empty carbs has increased over the past 30 years. " if that is the case..the books..the diet..to "ME" would have been geared towards treating the epidemic of diabetes....

and then it is linked to obesity, which i agree...HOWEVER, i refuse to put that much faith into ANY man..he made $$$ pushing his lifestyle..period. just as jenny craig does...the founders of weight watchers...and so on.

it is up to each and every individual to research ALL information to the best of their knowledge.

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-20-2004, 10:30 PM

Atkins studied (http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/300503diet.html)

excerpt from the page:
The Atkins diet is based on eating large quantities of protein (for example eggs, meat and cheese) and small amounts of carbohydrate (such as bread, fruit and pasta).

Two studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine looked at the benefits of the Atkins diet in obese people, compared to low-fat approaches.

They discovered weight initially came off quickly, but levelled off over six months / one year. The researchers claim the diet proved effective.

But experts aren't convinced. They've highlighted a number of criticisms, including the small numbers involved, the high drop out rate and the fact that the longest study only lasted a year. For this reason, the long-term effects of the diet are still a mystery.
The current advice for losing weight safely and maintaining it is to eat a healthy balanced diet, make lasting lifestyle changes and be active

i think the thing most people are talking about is the effects of the diet LONG term. since it is yet to be a study going longer than a year...we can only go by word of mouth.

everything we do has an effect on the body..too much of one thing..too little of another..the body will turn excess protein into fat just as it will the carbs...

calandra

02-20-2004, 10:57 PM

This article is biased. The negatives of the Atkins diet are said to be the "high drop out rate" and the fact that the longest study only lasted a year. However, these criticisms are true for any diets. I'm sure every person in America has quit a low fat diet or Weight Watchers at least once in their lifetime, including myself (multiple times). Further, up until now, there have been no long term studies on any diet. There is no study that says that a low fat diet is safe over the long term. So my question is why are we focusing on Atkins, when the results of the low fat craze haven't been what has been expected.

AFashionSlave

02-20-2004, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by calandra+Feb 20 2004, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calandra @ Feb 20 2004, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 20 2004, 09:45 PM

what do we hear about atkins? or any other diet gimmick/fad out there today? do they readily tell us of possible side effects? short and long term? instead...they are pushing..LOSE WEIGHT NOW!...$$$$ :smug
One thing that absolutely drives me crazy about the anti-Atkins crusade is there is a lot of disinformation spread out there. Anyone who is knowledgeable about Dr. Atkins and his work knows that he did not consider himself to be a "diet doctor." He was always more concerned about treating the epidemic of diabetes that has grown in the country as our consumption of sugar and empty carbs has increased over the past 30 years. Diabetes and obesity are linked, so in order to treat diabetes, you have to get people to lose weight. Of course, people naturally focused on the weight loss aspect, because, as we see with Ephedra and gastric bypass, many people are willing to sacrifice their health to be thin.

There are no warnings on Atkins, because there are no bad side effects. This diet has been studied more than any other, and people on it have consistently done better on it ona whole than other more conventional diets.

My problem is that I feel that the Atkins diet is unfairly singled out. I have respect for others and their choices. I don't go around slamming other people's ways of eating and spreading disinformation about it. I would just like it if the Atkins plan had the same courtesy. [/b][/quote]
calandra,

I was not trying to spread mis-information or slam the way that other people eat. I was just sharing my story, my opinion, and my observations on how my body reacted when I was on the Adkins diet.

Iâ€™m not a scientist and you donâ€™t have to believe me or pay attention to what I said.

I had an eating disorder so I'm sure that my story is very extreme compared to the things that other people have experienced on the Adkins plan or any other diet plan.

I just want you guys to be careful with the food choices that you make. Many of us want instant gratification when it comes to dieting and because we want to be thin as soon as possible. Loosing weight quickly and fad dieting is not safe - no matter what diet you choose to be on.

AFashionSlave

02-20-2004, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by feepee@Feb 20 2004, 03:52 PM
AFashionSlave- thank you so much for sharing. I hope u don't mind but i'm gunna forward this to a friend of mine. it seems most of my friends are hooked on these fad diets and i keep trying to tell them that stuff is bad for your health. at least now i can use your example to show them it's not just ME being a know-it-all. Lately (since i've started to trim down, look and feel better) one of my home girls' is acting like i'm looking down on her cuz i try to explain to her the benefits of healthy eating and exercise.

I thought that by being an example, my friends who are dealing with weight issues could see that it's possible to enjoy life and good health without starvation (which is counter-productive anyways). But it's hard to help someone realize that THEY hold the key to good health. Stop waiting for the magic pill, or fad diet.
I know this is an open forum and I don't mind if you forward my story to others.

I would appreciate it if you did not forward my picture or my handle name.

calandra

02-20-2004, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by AFashionSlave+Feb 20 2004, 11:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFashionSlave @ Feb 20 2004, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by calandra@Feb 20 2004, 05:01 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 20 2004, 09:45 PM

what do we hear about atkins?Â or any other diet gimmick/fad out there today?Â do they readily tell us of possible side effects?Â short and long term?Â instead...they are pushing..LOSE WEIGHT NOW!...$$$$ :smug
One thing that absolutely drives me crazy about the anti-Atkins crusade is there is a lot of disinformation spread out there. Anyone who is knowledgeable about Dr. Atkins and his work knows that he did not consider himself to be a "diet doctor." He was always more concerned about treating the epidemic of diabetes that has grown in the country as our consumption of sugar and empty carbs has increased over the past 30 years. Diabetes and obesity are linked, so in order to treat diabetes, you have to get people to lose weight. Of course, people naturally focused on the weight loss aspect, because, as we see with Ephedra and gastric bypass, many people are willing to sacrifice their health to be thin.

There are no warnings on Atkins, because there are no bad side effects. This diet has been studied more than any other, and people on it have consistently done better on it ona whole than other more conventional diets.

My problem is that I feel that the Atkins diet is unfairly singled out. I have respect for others and their choices. I don't go around slamming other people's ways of eating and spreading disinformation about it. I would just like it if the Atkins plan had the same courtesy.
calandra,

I was not trying to spread mis-information or slam the way that other people eat. I was just sharing my story, my opinion, and my observations on how my body reacted when I was on the Adkins diet.

Iâ€™m not a scientist and you donâ€™t have to believe me or pay attention to what I said.

I had an eating disorder so I'm sure that my story is very extreme compared to the things that other people have experienced on the Adkins plan or any other diet plan.

I just want you guys to be careful with the food choices that you make. Many of us want instant gratification when it comes to dieting and because we want to be thin as soon as possible. Loosing weight quickly and fad dieting is not safe - no matter what diet you choose to be on. [/b][/quote]
AFashionSlave,
My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. You didn't really post much on your eating habits, it sounds like you were not eating enough good carbs. Atkins recommended that if you were experiencing the symptoms you described, that you should increase your intake of good carbs such as veggies, whole grains and fruits. You didn't post how long you were on the diet, but it is impossible to sustain that kind of rapid weight loss, as most of that weight is just water weight--particularly if you're eating sufficient calories and protein.

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by calandra@Feb 20 2004, 05:57 PM
This article is biased. The negatives of the Atkins diet are said to be the "high drop out rate" and the fact that the longest study only lasted a year. However, these criticisms are true for any diets. I'm sure every person in America has quit a low fat diet or Weight Watchers at least once in their lifetime, including myself (multiple times). Further, up until now, there have been no long term studies on any diet. There is no study that says that a low fat diet is safe over the long term. So my question is why are we focusing on Atkins, when the results of the low fat craze haven't been what has been expected.
switch jenny craig with atkins...and we would be talking about JENNY CRAIG's program.

you said the article is biased..which one? i gave 2 links. however, show me where you can get an unbiased article? the article of the last link i posted gave you the good also...from what i read..they listed a few pros/cons. right now the craze is atkins..that is why the focus is on it. there are too many health problems today and info need to be made public..period

again from the article

Although on the surface both studies appeared to show benefits from the Atkins diet, delving deeper into the details reveals a number of negative points. Most notably:

Both studies were very small.
Both used obese, or severely obese, participants, which isn't representative of the average UK dieter.
There was a high drop-out rate, suggesting that people found the Atkins diet hard to stick to.
They didn't address the harmful effect the diet could have on the kidneys.
The difference between the weight losses at the end of the studies wasn't really that different.

what i posted before werent the only concerns that were made known and there are still more.

be careful not to put so much into something a man made...they can and will fail.

i was one that did weight watchers. i lost weight them and have kept it off for almost 2 yrs. i NEVA followed WW to the T!..refused to. this is real life and i am going to eat. i am not going to deny myself of what my body wants or needs because of some pts. i took what i wanted from them and applied them to common sense and other facts i researched.

tell me why should fruits/veggies be so limited? is that a good thing? all because of some carbs.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 03:14 AM

Question-
Since you claim that folks are slamming Atkins...why won't these SAME Pro-Atkins people eat a BALANCED DIET, exercise, drink plenty of water, eliminate refined sugars and flours on their own? Physicians and Holistic health professionals have been preaching this for years...it ain't new! However, all of a sudden the "Lose 10lbs. in 3 days" is linked to Atkins...and then the books start, and then comes the food...etc.

You say that Atkins was in a coma for a month, HOW did he get that way?...and if his diet was balanced in the first place and he was in good health, there is NO way that he should have retained THAT much water...Dag, I wish I had an autopsy report for him :smug

I have yet to find an article detailing where ANY low-carb diet was studied for long-term effects on a SUFFICIENT number of people in the population (and I'm talking at LEAST 5000 - 10,000) AND these people were followed for at least 5 years. Where is THAT research IF this diet is so great?

As for the Atkins diet combating diabetes, you'll get the same if not a better result if folks cut out refined sugars and flours, exercised, drank water and monitored their diets. It doesn't take reading an Atkins book to figure that out...just some reading and common sense.

Atkins is making a ton of money off of other people's laziness, plain and simple. People like to be handhelt and told/shown what to do AND see FAST results in order to continue a lifestyle that's beneifical for them in the long run.

Calandra, as for your numbers being "beatiful," WHAT DOEST THAT MEAN? Is it beautiful for you because they're stable or beautiful for your physician because it brings them a paycheck and you're on a road to needing some treatments later that will bring them more money? Also, BE CAREFUL WIT THE GENERALIZATIONS!!! Everyone has NOT quit a diet because EVERYONE does NOT diet...some of us actually prefer eating fresh fruits and veggies, drinking water and losing weight because we've done research on the alternatives...it's called choosing a healthier lifestyle and going against the "status quo." What makes you thing that the Atkins diet has NO bad side effects?...How do you know? You're NOT every person...AFashionSlave's experience alone disproves your statement of "no bad side effects."

Gosh, I wish folks would just eat a balanced diet rich in fresh/raw fruits and veggies and grains...but I guess that would fall under the common sense that's apparently NOT so common...

charli

02-21-2004, 04:13 AM

Since you claim that folks are slamming Atkins...why won't these SAME Pro-Atkins people eat a BALANCED DIET, exercise, drink plenty of water, eliminate refined sugars and flours on their own?......Atkins is making a ton of money off of other people's laziness, plain and simple. People like to be handhelt and told/shown what to do AND see FAST results in order to continue a lifestyle that's beneifical for them in the long run.

I remember I did a lot of research into low carb, moderate carb, carb controlled lifestyles a while back... and I was absolutely surprised at all the information out there that shows the downsides of excess carbs in the diet. Atkins is mainly criticized based on it's INDUCTION diet, not the entire lifestyle. Unfortunately, induction is what most people do and stick to. (I'm more of a Zone person myself).

the problem I have with Atkins is that most people take it to the extreme. They swap out the carbs for protein but still eat garbage. DH works with people that are on Atkins and only eat beef and pork. Now that's just NASTY. The psychology behind the person is still the same, they are just swapping their gorging on chips/fries/ice cream/cake/soda for gorging on bacon/burger patties/steaks/pork chops/splenda sweetened drings and so on. The bottom line is that MOST people don't even develop healthy eating habits just swap out crappy carbs for crappy proteins.

That's the main problem I have with Atkins-- the extreme to which people take it. It's not necessarily a fault of the diet itself, because people abuse it. However, there are better designed eating lifestyles (like zone and south beach) which present a more BALANCED approach to nutrition and eating.

charli

02-21-2004, 04:14 AM

tell me why should fruits/veggies be so limited? is that a good thing? all because of some carbs.

I hear ya. Any "diet" that has me eating far more proteins that fruits and veggies is just flat out wrong.

Patrina

02-21-2004, 05:24 AM

If you read you were only supposed to limit the fruit/veggie intake for a limited period of time. Personally, I did the Atkins diet and I have lost weight. . . alot. And I am healthier for it. Unless you know someone that has used to Atkin's diet for an extended amount of time you can't really say it doesn't work. And I am not talking 2 months, I am talking years.

For those ppl swapping chips/fries/ice cream to bacon/steaks/prok chops are not following the Atkin's diet they have constructed their own.

And there has been tests showing that ppl on the Atkin's diet compared to ppl on a low-fat diet had lost significant amounts of wait, lost triglycerides (which aids heart disease, I believe), and had good fats in their system as opposed to bad ones.

If scientists would have spent more time believing the man instead of downing his findings because he was on to something maybe you (no one is particular) would have the documentation you so crave.

@TDHayes- you can't really compare AFS experience disproved Calandra's statement because her experience was extreme. Not everyone was in the same situation as her so to compare her situation to a regular person (no offense) with no prior eating disorders is moot. Also, his cardiologist said himself that for a man that ate like Atkin's did his arteries were clean. Clean! Probably cleaner than most.

If one would read his book, if I remember correctly, it states that it was a lifestyle change. Not something to be done for a few weeks or months and then dropped. So the "lose weight in 3 days" fad is in no way linked to Atkin's.

Another thing, he retained so much fluids in his body because while he was in the hospital he was pumped full of fluids. You multiply that by a month and you got fluid retention. Think about it. The hospital he was in even agreed.

I amazes me how folks can down something they don't even use.

Atkin's Diet (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4327741/)
Atkin's Diet 2 (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4332217/)

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 12:24 AM
If you read you were only supposed to limit the fruit/veggie intake for a limited period of time.

And there has been tests showing that ppl on the Atkin's diet compared to ppl on a low-fat diet had lost significant amounts of wait, lost triglycerides (which aids heart disease, I believe), and had good fats in their system as opposed to bad ones.

If scientists would have spent more time believing the man instead of downing his findings because he was on to something maybe you (no one is particular) would have the documentation you so crave.

@TDHayes- you can't really compare AFS experience disproved Calandra's statement because her experience was extreme. Not everyone was in the same situation as her so to compare her situation to a regular person (no offense) with no prior eating disorders is moot. Also, his cardiologist said himself that for a man that ate like Atkin's did his arteries were clean. Clean! Probably cleaner than most.

If one would read his book, if I remember correctly, it states that it was a lifestyle change. Not something to be done for a few weeks or months and then dropped. So the "lose weight in 3 days" fad is in no way linked to Atkin's.

Another thing, he retained so much fluids in his body because while he was in the hospital he was pumped full of fluids. You multiply that by a month and you got fluid retention. Think about it. The hospital he was in even agreed.

I amazes me how folks can down something they don't even use.

Atkin's Diet (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4327741/)
Atkin's Diet 2 (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4332217/)

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
1) i am very well aware of the limited amount of time for the fruits and veggies..i even contemplated participating in the atkins diet...HOWEVER, i am not limiting anything that DRASTICALLY to get started on anything..only to increase the intake back gradually. we are talking foods that are good for the body. fruits and veggies and i love them waaaaaaaaaay too much to give up some because if i want that 1 cup of lettuce and a grapefruit..i am pretty much done with my carbs for the day. :huh not good in MY EYES...not pratical..not realistic.
2)it isnt the scientists' job to BELIEVE anything. it is their job to INVESTIGATE. if something looks like it can be worth investigating..they go for it! so that alone makes me WONDER...seems to me that the vary people who do these lil researches have enough sense not to go on for too long for there may be a lil trouble in paradise down the road. so many other things are researched and investigated to NO END..so whats wrong with someone doing that with the atkins diet? why were they just supposed to stop after a year and say ...yeah, its good and it will work.
3) the statement to TDHAYES about not being able to use AFS's acct in comparision can also be viewed the same way on our end. you said not everyone have the same situation..etc. UNDERSTOOD...we are saying...NOT EVERYONE has the same situation also. just because you or others that you know of personally has had success w/ no problems doesnt mean that can be applied to all. i have known people with NO prior eating disorder to combat what AFS did...while on the atkins..and the things she experienced has also been provided earlier by me in an (a link).
4) no one can believe any report FULLY unless they were in the room. none of us will ever know how that man's arteries looked. all we will know is that at some point and time in his life...he suffered from various HEART problems...etc this is just MY opinion...people are lying about his health @death because there is 2 much $$ at stake.
5) the links provided are just as biased as the ones i linked to the thread (as they were called) anything coming from the atkins site will be biased. his wife is going to back up her husband..but they did NOT want anything other than an external autopsy done. so SHe or anyone else can not make a claim as to how HEALTHY he was at death.
the 2nd link about low carbing...i have never denied the benefits of low carbing..its the practice of going that route. in an earlier topic, i provided links of possible side effects when the body receives too little carbs or too little protein.

bottom line...cut out the refined foods..sugars..flours..excess pastas...etc you will lose weight. my thing is..why should one go through an induction and then build your way back up to eating x amount of carbs. whats wrong with cutting down gradually? i have known so many people that yo yo with this plan because once the induction was over..and they added carbs..they gained weight and went right back to induction.

WW even showed us how to eat low carbs while staying within the pt range..etc. but if one really wanted to improve their health..they can research..ask a doctor..(sometimes) and find out what approach would be best for them...but i am still not with putting all this FAITH in a man just because...he has had a book out since 1972...and a lot of people have lost weight and kept it off 2 yrs...i wanna see 10 yrs and beyond. there is NO reason why we should NOT ask for such...the book is as old as i am. someone has maintained this lifestyle for that length of time other than the man himself right?

(man, my posts are catching up with medusa) :-cre

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 05:04 PM

@Patrina-
Thanks for the laugh. I don't need to use Atkins because I already know what works well for my body...it's common sense...I don't need Atkins for that.

As for AFS's situation, what's "extreme" as you put it to one person may very well be "normal" for someone else. She did the diet like others and her body's response to it was not favorable. Therefore, because she participated in it AND has a comparison factor, it's NOT moot...it just doesn't reflect what some others have apparently experienced.

As for the cardiologist, whatever...you'd be surprised what people will do for money. Like I said, I'd love to have read the autopsy report for this man. I'm a skeptic. Also, I don't know a person yet that gained 65 pounds while in a coma...usually, if they're pumping you full of fluids, they eventually also drain out...provided the other body parts are functioning properly to process and eliminate these fluids. However, I still would like to know how in the world did he end up in a coma in the first place? Personally, I don't think the truth will EVER be known in this case because EVERYONE has an agenda for being for or against this "diet" and it's pretty much connected with money.

Being that I am in research and I coordinate studies with the CDC, EVERY study has biases in it...if anyone tells you different, they are flat out LYING!!! What works for one DOES NOT work for all.

As for downing things that people don't use...I assume this means you've tried any number of illegal/illicit drugs?...it's an extreme example but the concept is the same...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 05:20 PM

@Atkins Diet Folks
Fresh/raw fruits and veggies have been proven to have vitamins, minerals and enzymes that are known to improve health and overall quality of life. Why in the WORLD should something so beneficial be limited?

Diets high in protein result in excess ketones in the body...this leads to the kidneys working overtime to eliminate this from the body...not to mention the liver. Ketones/protein in the urine are KEY signs that the body is out of balance and an illness is on the horizon....so, please tell me again, how this is a positive thing?

Also, if the majority of your protein is coming from meat, you're introducing various hormones and antibiotics into your system that not only effect your body's normal hormonal balance but it also increases your body's resistance to antibiotics that would normally work to fight off bacterial infections. I coordinate a study now in which we take the bacteria normally found in meat(chicken, ground turkey, ground beef and pork chops) purchased from various grocery stores in the US and test the antibiotic resistance of it...guess what we're finding....:smug

Also, does Atkins teach that your body BUILDS PROTEIN??? You don't get protein from eating protein. You get protein when your body uses essential and non-essential amino acids to build the protein that the body needs and uses...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 05:31 PM

Another question...

If anyone has done the Atkins diet for AT LEAST 2 years or more, please contribute. What have you learned? What were the positives AND negatives? Would you recommend it?

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 05:59 PM

People, keep in mind, not all food regimen work for everybody. I tried the RAW food diet, and I could not stay on it, . My body needs warm and cooked food because I have a cold body type. Raw foods make my body colder and unbalanced. Warm and cooked food make my body warmer. I have what in Ayurvedic Medicine is called Vata, and Ayurveda has been around for hundred of years, if not thousands.

What is positive with the Atkins diet:

1) It was the first diet that really successfully questioned the excess carbs in the American diet. Eating a low carb diet IMO is still an important component of eating a balanced diet unless someone is plowing the field or doing hard labor. Most of us leads sedentary lives and don't need all that carb.

2) it successfully challenged the myth that fat in itself was bad. Some fats are good, and some fats are bad.

I have been on a low carb diet for a couple of years, while at the same time I have increased my protein intake, and I have to say that I have experienced fewer mood swings because of it. I used to be a vegetarian with very little proteins and lots of vegetables and fruits, and it was very hard on my body after a while. I was ALWAYS cold. If I return to vegetarianism, I will have to find a way to make sure I get a lot of protein.

Bottom line, what is a balanced diet to you may not a balanced diet to someone else. Sometimes, you need to experiment to find out what works for you.

Edited to add: Would I recommend Atkins diet? No, but I would recommend that people eat a low carb diet.

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 05:20 PM
Also, if the majority of your protein is coming from meat, you're introducing various hormones and antibiotics into your system that not only effect your body's normal hormonal balance but it also increases your body's resistance to antibiotics that would normally work to fight off bacterial infections. I coordinate a study now in which we take the bacteria normally found in meat(chicken, ground turkey, ground beef and pork chops) purchased from various grocery stores in the US and test the antibiotic resistance of it...guess what we're finding....:smug

What about people who buy organic meat?

People who eat a lot of non-organic fruits and vegetables are also bound to have a high level of chemicals in their body...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by charli@Feb 20 2004, 11:13 PM
I remember I did a lot of research into low carb, moderate carb, carb controlled lifestyles a while back... and I was absolutely surprised at all the information out there that shows the downsides of excess carbs in the diet. Atkins is mainly criticized based on it's INDUCTION diet, not the entire lifestyle. Unfortunately, induction is what most people do and stick to. (I'm more of a Zone person myself).

Actually, just about anything done in excess aren't good for you. The problem (at least in America) is that MOST folks eat the wrong carbs...instead of eating a diet high in fresh/raw fruits and veggies and grains...folks tend to load up on processed foods swimming with refined sugars, etc...this type of junk would send my body into overload too...hence, the rise in obesity, heart disease, diabetics, coronary artery disease, etc....

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 06:15 PM

But you have to eat the RIGHT carbs...MOST people don't...AND they aren't trying to learn how.

As for the organic meats, ALL meats have some form of bacteria...As for the antibiotics, that depends on where the meat is grown...not all organic farmers use the California statute and therefore, you still don't really know what you're getting. Also, if that particular farm also has animals that are NOT being fed organic feed AND if pesticides, etc. are used in the soil or grass and those animals eat it, they are still being introduced to various chemicals, antibiotics, etc....just in smaller amounts...

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 06:07 PM
Actually, just about anything done in excess aren't good for you. The problem (at least in America) is that MOST folks eat the wrong carbs... folks tend to load up on processed foods swimming with refined sugars, etc...this type of junk would send my body into overload too...hence, the rise in obesity, heart disease, diabetics, coronary artery disease, etc....
I agree with that.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55@Feb 21 2004, 12:59 PM
Bottom line, what is a balanced diet to you may not a balanced diet to someone else. Sometimes, you need to experiment to find out what works for you.
I agree with this in part...however, diets high in fresh/raw veggies and fruits have been shown to be beneficial to overall health. However, most folks aren't interested in learning to combine foods properly as well as eat foods that are healthier for the body...at least that's the impression I'm getting...

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes
But you have to eat the RIGHT carbs...MOST people don't...AND they aren't trying to learn how.
Actually, there are a number of diets that have come out as a result of the Atkins diet and they actually emphasize eating right carbs versus the wrong carbs. People are learning.

For decades, the AMA and mainstream nutritionists advocated a pyramid diet heavy on carb where there was no distinction between good carbs and bad carbs, low on fat (regardless of good fat vs bad fat), and for decades, American people as a group kept getting heavier and heavier each year. Obviously, standard dietetary guidelines did not work.

I was reading 1 month ago that latest weight data for the nation indicate that Americans weight gain momentum is finally showing sign of leveling off after some 35 years of steady increase. What should we attribute this to? Could it be a result of the low carb craze sweeping the country and more people are finally eating a low carb diet? I don't know if this is the answer, but I sure would like to know...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 06:48 PM

TDHayes & BrownsuggaDiva- no offense- but you two make it seem like the Atkin's diet and any doctor, person, scientist in favor of it are involved in conspiracy to the eating world. :lol Have either one of you TRIED the Atkin's diet?

Personally, I think no but hey I could be wrong. The reason for the induction phase to allow you body to get ready for the change it is in for. OH but I guess a healthy change isn't good because it was done on Atkin's and not by eating healthy foods from the get go. Think about it, if eating healthy foods from the get go was so bloody easy, why is America the fastest place in the world?

Whether you want to admit it or not, your diets are tailored or similar to the Atkin's diet. You might be in a different phase but I can almost bet you that your food intake is similar. If you know the benefits of a low-carb diet, guess what you should know the benefits of the Atkin's diet. Why? Because that is what the Atkin's diet is. . . a low-carb way of eating.

I'm not saying to worship the man but damn don't throw 30 years worth of work done the drain because your skeptical for no solid reason. Don't knock it till you try it. And from reading both of your posts neither one of you has tried it. But hey I could be wrong again.

And TDHayes- you studying and coordinating your studies with the CDC means trash (no offense again). Every study has biases in it like you said. Those nice books are synonymous with those bullshyte history books we were introduced to in school. They only tell you what they want you to know NOT what really happens.

He was in a coma because he slipped and fell and he sustained a head injury. The man was in his 70s, you falling and him falling will induce different consequences. Also, when in a coma, if being pumped full of fluids how, pray tell, do you expect the fluids to come out? Do the doctors and nurse suck it back out? :rolleyes Seriously? Does a person stay the exact size when in a coma? Since you don't know of anyone gaining weight in a coma you can't answer that question can you? Nope.

And you can talk about the ketones, proteins. enzymes, and amino acids all you want. That is biology, not nutrition.

In the end, this diet isn't really a diet, it's a lifestyle change. Like I stated earlier, it is not to be done for like a few weeks or months and then dropped. It is a change to your way of eating that mose ppl get. . . .and others don't. I have yet to have any adverse symptoms but as soon as I do (ain't gonna happen :nohuh) I will let ya'll know until then I'll continue losing weight.

I will respect everyone's opinion but I ain't cosigning.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

eta: for correction

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 06:53 PM

Actually I'd attribute part of it to knowledge and part of it to fear. People are finally starting to realize that they CAN die and that what they eat does have an effect on the body. I also believe that people are becoming more vain and are trying to lose weight at almost any cost.

You DO have a few that ARE interested in proper food combinations, etc. and as a result of this, a healthier lifestyle is hopefully developing. I also think that the facts that more younger folks are dying from diseases once designated as "old folks illnesses" is having a HUGE impact as well...you didn't used to hear of 30 year olds dropping dead from heart attacks...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:05 PM

Whatever Patrina...as I stated earlier, I don't need an Atkins diet to help me to lose weight...I was eating properly BEFORE Atkins became as popular and mainstream as it is now. Give me a GOOD reason to try Atkins AND the resources and I'll give it a shot.

The majority of America is overweight because they are daggone lazy...pointblank. What other country to do you know of in which the majority of the populations gets its entertainment in front of a television!!! Ever noticed that back in the day BEFORE television that more people were physically active that today...if you take in more calories than you burn, you gain weight...that ain't rocket science.

You're right, every study has biases in it. Your statement also applies to the Atkins diet...do you REALLY think that they are going to show you the negative effects of a diet whose marketing is making them billions??? ...be realistic...

By the way, if you are eating food...biology and nutrition will forever have a connection!...what you eat is DIRECTLY related to how the body breaks it down!

Everyone has adverse effects to a lifestyle change...it's just that all effects aren't viewed as negative by all people...and I HIGHLY doubt that you'd let us know anyway...

In short, we will probably FOREVER be in disagreeance on this topic.

***Still wondering why a "diet" that's been around for more than 30 years hasn't done a study of the folks using it for at least 3 or more years consistently to show the long-term effects...***

*shrugs*

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 07:07 PM

lol...cute...yes i have tried it...nope it wasnt reasonable..because YES i investigate!

my carb intake a day RARELY falls under 200 grams. have i gained weight since 02? nope? how much weight have i lost? 48 lbs. have i known others to drop off the meat and eat as much fruit/veggies they wanted and lost weight? MANY! including one at church rt now...older lady. doesnt measure a thing.

anybody out to sell their "way of life" is in a conspiracy to me. its called making MORE $$$ if not..the books would be free. lectures would be free all the info and the foods would be FREE...but..since its not..its a conspiracy...TO ME.

again, why the INDUCTION? why not just cut down..gradual change? why must the body be put through the ringer GETTING READY for this humongous change? just a question.

and NOPE my diet is not tailored with the atkins diet. i am NOT going to eat less than 150 grams of carbs a day. i refuse to..unless i am just fasting. lol. imma eat as much fruit/veggies/oatmeal/pasta i want. thats just me. i know how to watch the certain types of carbs i eat..but will i eat a certain number? nope. 2 grapefruits are 37 carbs...i ate those and some oatmeal...on the aktins..i have had my allotment for the day... :nohuh NOT

this debate will go on and on...however, i have a problem with any program that has not provided adequate research and i will be concerned..BUT not lose sleep over anyone that chooses to do it. i dont doubt short term success...i question long term effects.

the same as i would with any other program out there INCLUDING weight watchers.

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 06:53 PM
I also believe that people are becoming more vain and are trying to lose weight at almost any cost.

I agree with that. When the reason for going on a diet is solely vanity instead of health concern, people are more likely to try unhealthy diets just to get to a fashionable size.

For all of those you reading my posts, let me clarify, I am not defending or advocating Atkin diet, though I feel the diet has its merits and was the beginning of a much needed revolutionary change in the way we looked at food. I do feel strongly that the Atkin family should make public all health records pertaining to the deceased doctor. Privacy? Fug his privacy. The man was advocating a particular diet and made a fortune from it, so those who have bought the book and tried the diet are entitled to know how it worked for its founder. The fact that they are not willing to make those records public disturbs me. It is a matter of ethics and I don't like the way they are handling it. Almost as though they had something to hide...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 07:09 PM

That's because what we use to eat years ago isn't what we and our kids are being fed now. Huge difference. The 24hr diet and diets like it is the diet of choice for those vain individuals, not Atkin's. You see results quickly (not just weight loss but energy) but not that quickly.

Those not willing to discipline themselves enough to live that healthy lifestyle (with or without the help of Atkin's) is the problem. Is it that hard to put down the Hoho's and Twinkie's? Eating healthy takes discipline and a lifestyle change. Plain and simple.

I enlisted the help of the Atkin's lifestyle and it works for me.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:09 PM

And I still want the internal autopsy report on that joka!

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:14 PM

What the heck is a 24hr diet? You're right, the foods are different, but so is the physical activity level. When was the last time you've heard a parent tell a child to "go outside and play?"...

Lack of discipline = laziness...same thing being said differently...

Glad you found something that worked for YOU...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 07:14 PM

True not doing an autopsy is interesting and leaves alot to be desired. :-P However, I could care less how he died. I am more worried about my eating lifestyle, not his. Through his studies, I found a way to eat better which isn't that different from how others eat I might add.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Siennasilk

02-21-2004, 07:15 PM

I agree with TDhayes and Brownsugga on this one. But you two have to understand that trying to tell a woman who is beginning to finally shed some pounds (due to the God Atkins) that it ain't right, is like banging your head against a brick wall repeatedly.

@Patrina>> Nutrition, biology, physiology... It all goes hand in hand. If you learned how the body works> only then will you understand the ill health effects it has on your body. But Atkins diet promoters don't have to worry about that, do they? Because most people won't take the time to learn anything about the very things that keep them alive! How about we just promote "eating disorders"?? B/c that's what this diet is and YES I've tried it in the past. It works to lose weight, but it's NOT healthy! Bottom line. I need no "statistics" for this common sense...lol

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 02:14 PM
Through his studies, I found a way to eat better which isn't that different from how others eat I might add.

Uh huh...yeah..if you say so...

Somehow I doubt that you and I have similar eating habits...but hey, I've been wrong before...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:17 PM

@Sienna-
I know...it's like talking to a smoker...

Out of curiosity, why did they NOT do an internal autopsy on this man?...

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 01:48 PM

Think about it, if eating healthy foods from the get go was so bloody easy, why is America the fastest place in the world?

And TDHayes- you studying and coordinating your studies with the CDC means trash (no offense again). Every study has biases in it like you said. Those nice books are synonymous with those bullshyte history books we were introduced to in school. They only tell you what they want you to know NOT what really happens.

And you can talk about the ketones, proteins. enzymes, and amino acids all you want. That is biology, not nutrition.

In the end, this diet isn't really a diet, it's a lifestyle change. Like I stated earlier, it is not to be done for like a few weeks or months and then dropped. It is a change to your way of eating that mose ppl get. . . .and others don't. I have yet to have any adverse symptoms but as soon as I do (ain't gonna happen :nohuh) I will let ya'll know until then I'll continue losing weight.

1) america is the fattest nation in the world because we are LAZY and SORRY! looking for quick fixes and the instant way of doing EVERYTHING...we dont move..we dont eat right...we want whatever someone pushes at the moment..

LOSE WEIGHT NOW..ASK ME HOW

LOSE 10 LBS in 3 DAYS

Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, Quick Weight Loss centers, Atkins Diet, South Beach Diet..The Zone..the list goes on..why? because WE have given others the right to tell us how to eat instead of investigating on our own and coming up with the best plan that will work for US.

2) AMAZING how in u saying They only tell you what they want you to know NOT what really happens. it can apply here but NOT be applied to what really went down with the man..etc. or what his WIFE and anybody else from www.atkins.com says :smug

3) lol...it really is the same thing

4) I have yet to have any adverse symptoms but as soon as I do (ain't gonna happen :nohuh) unless you are psychic..that statement really cant be made. a lot of people have done things thinking..IT AINT GONNA happen to me...ya never know what is going to happen...just keep living

Patrina

02-21-2004, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 02:14 PM
What the heck is a 24hr diet? You're right, the foods are different, but so is the physical activity level. When was the last time you've heard a parent tell a child to "go outside and play?"...

Lack of discipline = laziness...same thing being said differently...

Glad you found something that worked for YOU...

Originally posted by tdhayes Feb 21 2004@ 02:14 PM
What the heck is a 24hr diet?

It is a drink. You are only allowed to drink this drink for a 24hr period. A friend of mine did this diet and lost maybe 3 lbs. Soooo not worth the hunger pains.

I still know some parents that do outdoor activities with their kids. Not enough but I know some. My mom used to send us out in the rain just to play kickball. We have made that a tradition in our family. Rain, sleet, snow, sunlight you are playing outside with the other kids.

When I say lack of discipline, I meant lack of committment because it isn't what that person wants to do.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:24 PM

*Thinking to myself*...I don't know a person ALIVE that has had an autopsy and can tell you EXACTLY what is happening inside of their bodies...

...guess some folks are just psychic like that...

*shrugs*

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:17 PM
@Sienna-
I know...it's like talking to a smoker...
That is so not nice. :nohuh Are you saying they are addicted? That's not a fair comparison. Atkins is controversial, but smoking is not controversial. Smoking has been proven to be harmful over and over. No controversy there. Atkins has not been proven to be harmful. Controversy is brewing, and she is entitled to her opinion until the dust settles down.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:27 PM

@Patrina
I'm glad your parents sent you outside to play...and I'm glad your family has made it a tradition to make kids go out and play. However, it doesn't do much good if the parents are being physical too. The fact that sooo many people diet is a good indicator that physical activity is NOT a priority for many...

Siennasilk

02-21-2004, 07:30 PM

I've often wondered why the big Atkins hoopla NOW? Why is it being promoted so much that you see it daily? It probably all boils down to over-production of cow farms or something and they have to get rid of all that meat and cheese PRONTO!! lol I wouldn't be surprised at all. Because I've seen shadier things done as far as mass marketing goes...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55+Feb 21 2004, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jessy55 @ Feb 21 2004, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:17 PM
@Sienna-
I know...it's like talking to a smoker...
That is so not nice. :nohuh Are you saying they are addicted? That's not a fair comparison. Atkins is controversial, but smoking is not controversial. Smoking has been proven to be harmful over and over. No controversy there. Atkins has not been proven to be harmful. Controversy is brewing, and she is entitled to her opinion until the dust settles down. [/b][/quote]
I'm not saying they are addicted...although some people may very well be.

I made that comment because Sienna's comment made me think of trying to tell a smoker that smoking can kill them and to me, THAT is reminiscent of talking to a brick wall.

As for Atkins, it hasn't been SHOWN to be harmful because it has not been studied for the long term...or at least, I haven't found these studies...the diet has been around for 20+ years, but I've yet to find a study about it in which the participants have adhered to this diet for more than one year...OR at least have been studied for longer than this amount of time. If they have followed folks on this diet for more than 5-10 years...I'd like to read that article...

ALSO, smoking has NOT been proven to be harmful...it's been strongly associated with harmful things such as lung cancer. I make this distinction because in Epidemiology and Public Health, we don't PROVE anything!! We make associations because there are ALWAYS confounding factors in studies such as this...

Siennasilk

02-21-2004, 07:34 PM

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 07:35 PM

@siennasilk..i agree....lol...

but just to clear this up..i dont recall saying that it isnt right...it isnt right for ME...and i question how it is right for anyone LONG TERM...

i asked questions...that is part of my investigation. i just wonder..thats all. its a topic of interest and i have been told i will research the HELL out of something. i would hope that others would do the same. if something is truly beneficial about atkins and i am wrong about my thoughts/perception..i want to know..i am not afraid of change. if he really WAS DA MAN...by all means..prove it to me so i can call him da man also. but until then..and basically UNTIL his family agrees to exhume the body so that an internal autopsy could be done..lol..my thoughts will stand...(oh yeah..or a 5 plus yr study is completed)

i have my own weight problem. (currently size 14...largest size 26 in 1996) bottom line of what worked for ME...researching info...and applying it to my life. if one wants to question what and how i eat...i will answer it..and back up my decisions with what i have researched and come up with. SO FAR..i have not had any issues. will i have them later? dont know...i pray that i dont....

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Siennasilk@Feb 21 2004, 02:30 PM
I've often wondered why the big Atkins hoopla NOW? Why is it being promoted so much that you see it daily? It probably all boils down to over-production of cow farms or something and they have to get rid of all that meat and cheese PRONTO!! lol I wouldn't be surprised at all. Because I've seen shadier things done as far as mass marketing goes...
:lol :lol :lol Gurl, you're a nutt!

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:27 PM
The fact that sooo many people diet is a good indicator that physical activity is NOT a priority for many...
Not necessarily true. Right now, I am now dieting, in the sense that I am limiting my food intake. For the past couple of weeks, I have returned to work as a temp, commuting 1 hour each way. I have not found a way to integrate my usual 1 hour walking routine into my new schedule. So, to prevent weight gain and stay healthy, I don't eat as much food as I used to because I am not expending as much energy as I used to.

But knowing me, I'll have to do something soon , even if it means using my lunch hour to work out. I love food too much. :lol

Siennasilk

02-21-2004, 07:43 PM

Brownsugga, yes I meant that this diet will MOST LIKELY have long-term ill health effects. Just as most disordered eating. Sure, it may "work" for many people and help them shed those pounds and inches, but that doesn't mean it won't destroy their remaining "gorgeous figure" in the long run. I can see those clogged arteries now. I have a vivid picture in my head of what Dr. Atkins autopsy would reveal. It's no "secret" to the medical community. If it were, the family and their legal entourage wouldn't be trying to hide the facts. They would stand to lose too much and maybe even get sued.

Patrina

02-21-2004, 07:44 PM

OK Siennasilk-since you DON'T know me personally you can't really say what I do and don't know. Can you? Nope You can't say what I have studied or not. Can you? Nope. And it may not have been healthy for you but is has been for.

I have studied my own health and I can prove what works for me. Not just physically but on paper too. But you wouldn't want me to do that would you? Cause I would have actually taken the time to figure out what does keep me alive AND healthy I might add.

If it didn't work for you, your bad. But it has worked for me. And I haven't finally lost some weight, I have been losing steadily for a few years now. But you don't care. You are bshing it cause it didn't work for you. Get real. Oh and the head banging comment. . . really? I read somewhere that sarcasm was a recourse of a weak mind. I wonder. . . :-?

And Atkin's isn't God for me but that is another thread that care not to get into. If everyone feels that doctors are only out for the almight dollar, why are you going to them? OH I get it you like parting with your money so. :rolleyes Seriously? You ladies might have grimy docs but I don't.

@BrownsuggaDiva-I am not saying it can't happen (please don't put words in my mouth) I said it has yet to happen. I make abolutely sure my health isn't in jeopardy so I can say it hasn't happened. Can you?

@ TDHayes- it is amazing how it seemed you were actually understanding my POV but as soon as your troops came back you compare me to a smoker. WTF? I would appreciate you not comparing me as such. I have been respectful to you thus far I would appreciate the same.

Say what you please ladies. TDHayes, you asked for someone that has been using the concept of Atkin's for years and you got it. But the minute you hear that what you (not in particular) loath some much might actually working well for some you come with something else. And one of those things happened to be name-calling. I will try to leave you ladies in your "I hate Atkin's" pity party.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55+Feb 21 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jessy55 @ Feb 21 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:27 PM
The fact that sooo many people diet is a good indicator that physical activity is NOT a priority for many...
Not necessarily true. Right now, I am now dieting, in the sense that I am limiting my food intake. For the past couple of weeks, I have returned to work as a temp, commuting 1 hour each way. I have not found a way to integrate my usual 1 hour walking routine into my new schedule. So, to prevent weight gain and stay healthy, I don't eat as much food as I used to because I am not expending as much energy as I used to.

But knowing me, I'll have to do something soon , even if it means using my lunch hour to work out. I love food too much. :lol [/b][/quote]
I disagree. I believe that if something is a priority, then you do what you have to do to make that happen...even if it's changing the type of activity...waking up an hour earlier, etc.

We have varying viewpoints...

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Siennasilk+Feb 21 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Siennasilk @ Feb 21 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Jessy55@Feb 21 2004, 02:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:17 PM
@Sienna-
I know...it's like talking to a smoker...
That is so not nice. :nohuh Are you saying they are addicted? That's not a fair comparison. Atkins is controversial, but smoking is not controversial. Smoking has been proven to be harmful over and over. No controversy there. Atkins has not been proven to be harmful. Controversy is brewing, and she is entitled to her opinion until the dust settles down.
A diet of meat and meat byproducts IS controversial. It IS detrimental to health. Just ask ANY real healthcare professional. Oh, wait, we have a few health professionals right here! And we're saying it's BAD for your health. Only problem is nobody cares about that part of it. [/b][/quote]
Again, please read the Atkins book before commenting on it. Nowhere does it advocate living exclusively on meat and meat by-products.

Any diet that would be solely made of meat and meat by-products would be detrimental. Just as any diet that would be solely made of fruits would be detrimental. I know a few women who tried to be fruitarians, and they came down with nasty yeast infections. I tried living on vegetables and fruits alone, and it didn't work for me.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 02:44 PM
@ TDHayes- it is amazing how it seemed you were actually understanding my POV but as soon as your troops came back you compare me to a smoker. WTF? I would appreciate you not comparing me as such. I have been respectful to you thus far I would appreciate the same.

Say what you please ladies. TDHayes, you asked for someone that has been using the concept of Atkin's for years and you got it. But the minute you hear that what you (not in particular) loath some much might actually working well for some you come with something else. And one of those things happened to be name-calling. I will try to leave you ladies in your "I hate Atkin's" pity party.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
Seeing your POV and agreeing with it are different things. As for the comparison to smokers, I cleared that up in my response to Jessy...that concept hasn't changed...

I did NOT call you out of your name...If I EVER do that, you WILL KNOW it!!!! Please don't accuse me of things that I have NOT done! I haven't lied on you, please don't lie on me.

BTW, I don't do pity parties...

Like I've said before, we disagree...

ETA: I'm glad that you've found something that works for you. I'm glad that others have found something that works for THEM!! I just happen to NOT agree with it...but then again, I don't have to because it's not my life.

Patrina

02-21-2004, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55+Feb 21 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jessy55 @ Feb 21 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:27 PM
The fact that sooo many people diet is a good indicator that physical activity is NOT a priority for many...
Not necessarily true. Right now, I am now dieting, in the sense that I am limiting my food intake. For the past couple of weeks, I have returned to work as a temp, commuting 1 hour each way. I have not found a way to integrate my usual 1 hour walking routine into my new schedule. So, to prevent weight gain and stay healthy, I don't eat as much food as I used to because I am not expending as much energy as I used to.

But knowing me, I'll have to do something soon , even if it means using my lunch hour to work out. I love food too much. :lol [/b][/quote]
I agree. Everyone diets (in the sense of food intake) differently. And if time to exercise can't be found (at that time as in your case) I think food intake should be adjusted so that weight loss is not disturbed.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Siennasilk@Feb 21 2004, 02:43 PM
Brownsugga, yes I meant that this diet will MOST LIKELY have long-term ill health effects. Just as most disordered eating. Sure, it may "work" for many people and help them shed those pounds and inches, but that doesn't mean it won't destroy their remaining "gorgeous figure" in the long run. I can see those clogged arteries now. I have a vivid picture in my head of what Dr. Atkins autopsy would reveal. It's no "secret" to the medical community. If it were, the family and their legal entourage wouldn't be trying to hide the facts. They would stand to lose too much and maybe even get sued.
its cool..i wasnt questioning you...

i was just clearing up MY stance...my thoughts are exactly as you have typed them...
i just never typed them that way...lol..called myself trying a different approach :-cre

its all good though..because as you just said....they have too much to lose..i mean atkins is in SUBWAY now..lol

@patrina...I COPIED YOUR WORDS...you said "I have yet to have any adverse symptoms but as soon as I do (ain't gonna happen)" this is what YOU typed dear...so i only quoted what you said...lol

lol..didnt know i was in an army to be honest...i simply asked questions and responded to urs :-?

the dialogue/debate has been real

if it works for you.... :app i just asked questions..lol...still cant stop loling..because i just wanted to know.

and nope..this isnt a PITY party...well, not for me...lol...wont be losing sleep over any ATKINS folk tonight..i simply asked questions and responded..lol...funny, mine werent answered...or if there was one..it was very general...no numbers..nuffin...go figure :smug

Siennasilk

02-21-2004, 07:55 PM

Sorry, Patrina. I just have to take your word for it when you say the diet has made you healthy. But it didn't work for me, my mom, my "very petite" sis, nor did it work for my "obese" younger sis. We all reported weight loss, but ill health effects (same as my past anorexia) from it. My sarcasm is just humor. Nothing against you, personally, just your words... That's all...

Oky-Doky, I'm :tiptoe on outta this thread for a cheesy egg and bacon lettuce wrap with a t-bone steak on the side :-) ...lol Just kidding...
Got thangs to do today, carry on ladies...

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 08:02 PM

me be out too..

no offense was intended for anyone in this thread and my apologies if some were taking due to my typing..

i just get "passionate" about various topics.....and i will ask some questions lol...i just dont buy word of mouth. i like to get info and then make my desicions.

and YES i can say IT HASNT happened to me either..because i take the same precautions etc. with my body.
NOW i am done..i think?

lol about to go and get me some dirty rice! AND THATS REAL!

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:46 PM
I disagree. I believe that if something is a priority, then you do what you have to do to make that happen...even if it's changing the type of activity...waking up an hour earlier, etc.

I was only addressing your statement that dieting is a good indicator that physical activity is NOT a priority. I don't think that's correct. I don't believe you can look at people dieting and decide that it means that physical activity is not a priority to them. I know plenty of folks who diet and exercise. In fact, this is the best combo for losing weight. The 2 wings of the bird... I am not trying to lose weight. I am just trying to maintain my weight and stay healthy.

Patrina

02-21-2004, 08:06 PM

BrownsuggaDiva- why would you want figures or stats on such things. That means a scientist would have to study and a scientist is kinda like a doctor and doctors are only out for patients money so why would you want stats? :tiptoe

TDHayes-no you didn't clear up the smoker thing you continued to give more info on how it compares to smoking. Which is so wrong by the way. :nohuh Smoking is harmful and there is documentation stating that. Atkin's hasn't been proven to be harmful and there is documentation stating that. Oh I get it you stated yourself that cigs have harmful things in them but I guess that means it as a whole is as healthy as pie, huh? :rolleyes Seriously? :tiptoe

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 03:06 PM
TDHayes-no you didn't clear up the smoker thing you continued to give more info on how it compares to smoking. Which is so wrong by the way. :nohuh Smoking is harmful and there is documentation stating that. Atkin's hasn't been proven to be harmful and there is documentation stating that. Oh I get it you stated yourself that cigs have harmful things in them but I guess that means it as a whole is as healthy as pie, huh? :rolleyes Seriously? :tiptoe

Well, let me make it crystal, since I wasn't clear enough the first time.

I am NOT calling Atkins dieters smokers. However, in Sienna's example, she made the comment about telling someone who's losing weight FINALLY that what they are doing is wrong is like talking to a brick wall. I compared THAT to trying to tell a smoker that smoking's not good for them...they aren't trying to hear it. To me, that's like trying to tell an Atkins dieter that they're diet isn't healthy...same brickwall concept...

Atkins hasn't been proven OR associated with health risks because NO ONE has done a long term study on the effects of this diet. Like I've asked before, if there is a study that HAS been conducted for more than five years on this study, I would like to read it. PLEASE post the link. However, until a study occurs that DOES do long term research on this diet, it CANNOT be said that there are NO negative effects because it hasn't been studied.

I like statistics, p-values, abstracts, conference intervals, etc....I want to read the data for myself.

Smoking and eating pie...whatever....

I need a break from this thread. I feel as though I've been accused of calling Atkins dieters smokers and that's not true...I ain't taking that lie well at all...break for me...

Siennasilk

02-21-2004, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55+Feb 21 2004, 02:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jessy55 @ Feb 21 2004, 02:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Siennasilk@Feb 21 2004, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55@Feb 21 2004, 02:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 07:17 PM
@Sienna-
I know...it's like talking to a smoker...
That is so not nice. :nohuh Are you saying they are addicted? That's not a fair comparison. Atkins is controversial, but smoking is not controversial. Smoking has been proven to be harmful over and over. No controversy there. Atkins has not been proven to be harmful. Controversy is brewing, and she is entitled to her opinion until the dust settles down.
A diet of meat and meat byproducts IS controversial. It IS detrimental to health. Just ask ANY real healthcare professional. Oh, wait, we have a few health professionals right here! And we're saying it's BAD for your health. Only problem is nobody cares about that part of it.
Again, please read the Atkins book before commenting on it. Nowhere does it advocate living exclusively on meat and meat by-products.

Any diet that would be solely made of meat and meat by-products would be detrimental. Just as any diet that would be solely made of fruits would be detrimental. I know a few women who tried to be fruitarians, and they came down with nasty yeast infections. I tried living on vegetables and fruits alone, and it didn't work for me. [/b][/quote]
Sorry, I haven't yet taken the time to learn how to quote only certain things. But just have to add this before I go and I'm being serious now>>

Jessy, the fruitarians are just another extreme diet. These crazy fad diets to give us that "skinny model" look we all would die to get are just as bad as any other eating disorder. Many people (especially women) like to hide their eating disorders using all this crap. We have to concentrate on getting ALL of our nutrients. It's never good to restrict nutrients. Nobody will be very healthy eating only "certain" nutrients and not others, either. There IS a middle ground. And any fast weight-loss "diet" promotion just isn't it.

I understand the entire Atkins concept and have read the book. It's great to cut out/lower our over-consumption of carbs in this society. But that way has been taken to the "extreme" once again and promotes food choices that are not good for your body. Either way, to each her own.
Good luck, girls...
Peace

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 08:25 PM

Well, it's been great talking to y'all, but the sun is out now, so I am out too, trying to squeeze at least 1 hour worth of walking before it starts raining again. :)

Patrina

02-21-2004, 08:29 PM

TDHayes- If you have found something that works for you why do you care? You say that you want statistics, p-values, abstracts, conference intervals, etc. What is that going to prove to you? That someone did some research and was able to put some words and numbers on a piece of paper and prettied it up real nice so that is looks like it has some scientific backing. All that is relative.

If you want research so bad, do it yourself on yourself. I have and still do. Because even if you get those stats that you crave so much, if they disprove your ideas about the unhealthyness of Atkin's, you just gonna say that they are doctors out for the almight dollar. Now THAT would be like a smoker. You tell them the truth and they still don't get it.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Patrina

02-21-2004, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55@Feb 21 2004, 03:25 PM
Well, it's been great talking to y'all, but the sun is out now, so I am out too, trying to squeeze at least 1 hour worth of walking before it starts raining again. :)
Gurl, run in the rain. OK nevermind I have an affinity for the rain since my childhood. Happy walking!!

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 03:06 PM
BrownsuggaDiva- why would you want figures or stats on such things. That means a scientist would have to study and a scientist is kinda like a doctor and doctors are only out for patients money so why would you want stats? :tiptoe

if this was something that i was contemplating doing (and i did in the past and attempted) as i stated earlier..i research..and investigate as much as i possibly can. there are just some things i do not take lightly. to be honest, your statement isnt really clear with me.

no such thing as kinda like a doctor...either you are or you arent. the scientist are the ones that are investigating and studying...etc. those are the numbers/stats/etc i want to see and have asked since page 2 for those links to be provided since some one stated earlier that it was the MOST studied diet. if that is the case, as i typed then...show me some info so i can get to reading.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 03:29 PM
TDHayes- If you have found something that works for you why do you care? You say that you want statistics, p-values, abstracts, conference intervals, etc. What is that going to prove to you? That someone did some research and was able to put some words and numbers on a piece of paper and prettied it up real nice so that is looks like it has some scientific backing. All that is relative.

If you want research so bad, do it yourself on yourself. I have and still do. Because even if you get those stats that you crave so much, if they disprove your ideas about the unhealthyness of Atkin's, you just gonna say that they are doctors out for the almight dollar. Now THAT would be like a smoker. You tell them the truth and they still don't get it.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
I want this information because I am a researcher and I like to have the information that supports or doesn't support something. When a study has been done on at LEAST 5-10,000 people for a period of 5 or more years (as has smoking been studied and other things), then I may not have a problem with it because the pros and cons will be detailed...the results can then be extrapolated to the general population. I haven't found this to be done in the case of the Atkins diet. If you have the links for such articles, please post them....

YOU DON'T KNOW ME WELL ENOUGH TO EVER KNOW WHAT I WILL OR WILL NOT SAY ABOUT ANYTHING. ...unless of course, you're a psychic now...

And you STILL have NOT provided the articles that were requested...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 08:50 PM

TDHayes- Since your a bloody researcher (as you have dropped hints about in countless posts), research it your bloody self. I am not providing info to you dearest. You want it so badly, you get it. I know where I get my info from and NOBODY had to get it for me.

Don't waste your time typing anuthing else, let it go, the info you seek ain't coming from me....:tiptoe

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 01:48 PM
And TDHayes- you studying and coordinating your studies with the CDC means trash (no offense again). Every study has biases in it like you said. Those nice books are synonymous with those bullshyte history books we were introduced to in school. They only tell you what they want you to know NOT what really happens.

You do realize that you sound ignorant right?

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 03:50 PM
TDHayes- Since your a bloody researcher (as you have dropped hints about in countless posts), research it your bloody self. I am not providing info to you dearest. You want it so badly, you get it. I know where I get my info from and NOBODY had to get it for me.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
NEWSFLASH!!! I have and I have NOT found any!!!! You can't get what's NOT available...duh...

ETA: Apparently, if I'm asking others for links, I haven't found this information...

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 08:54 PM

:tiptoe back in....just a question....

can you PM me with how you found the info? because i have been searching the world wide web high and low for information. libraries...books that can be checked out..viewed...internet articles and the link...however i am not purchasing anything.

Patrina

02-21-2004, 08:55 PM

Ok you go back in time to speak about something I said that is ignorant. . . .read closely I quoted you so do that make my source ignorant too? You have a prob with Atkin's, cool by me. But don't get mad because your paltry attempts at proving your point aren't hitting their target. Get over it and get on.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 03:55 PM
Ok you go back in time to speak about something I said that is ignorant. . . .read closely I quoted you so do that make my source ignorant too? You have a prob with Atkin's, cool by me. But don't get mad because your paltry attempts at proving your point aren't hitting their target. Get over it and get on.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
YOU said
They only tell you what they want you to know NOT what really happens.

How is this different from Atkins?...They are telling YOU what they want you to know.

You're no longer making sense sweetie. I quoted what YOU wrote. I have no target.

My goal is to have folks think...and seeing as how there are so many responses on this thread, it's working...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 08:59 PM

It may not be available to you but maybe you not are looking as deep as you think you are. Sometimes you have to go to ppl instead following paper trails. And before you say I only looked at the pros. . . .AAAANNNNTTTT wrong. . . I looked at both sides because that is what a real researcher does. But you already know that don't you.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Alas, I am tired of this and I will bow out. . . toodles. . .:tiptoe

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 12:24 AM
If you read you were only supposed to limit the fruit/veggie intake for a limited period of time. Personally, I did the Atkins diet and I have lost weight. . . alot. And I am healthier for it. Unless you know someone that has used to Atkin's diet for an extended amount of time you can't really say it doesn't work. And I am not talking 2 months, I am talking years.
You say that you DID the Atkins diet? That means, past tense, you are NO LONGER doing it~!!!! So, how long did you do the Atkins diet?

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 03:59 PM
It may not be available to you but maybe you not are looking as deep as you think you are. Sometimes you have to go to ppl instead following paper trails. And before you say I only looked at the pros. . . .AAAANNNNTTTT wrong. . . I looked at both sides because that is what a real researcher does. But you already know that don't you.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Alas, I am tired of this and I will bow out. . . toodles. . .:tiptoe
Now, you REALLY sound ignorant...

People leave information behind...that's how BOOKS ARE WRITTEN...DUH!!!!

By the way, I don't know ONE person yet who has interviewed 10,000+ people and extrapolated THAT to the general population...

Whatever Patrina...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes+Feb 21 2004, 03:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tdhayes @ Feb 21 2004, 03:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 03:55 PM
Ok you go back in time to speak about something I said that is ignorant. . . .read closely I quoted you so do that make my source ignorant too? You have a prob with Atkin's, cool by me. But don't get mad because your paltry attempts at proving your point aren't hitting their target. Get over it and get on.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
YOU said
They only tell you what they want you to know NOT what really happens.

How is this different from Atkins?...They are telling YOU what they want you to know.

You're no longer making sense sweetie. I quoted what YOU wrote. I have no target.

My goal is to have folks think...and seeing as how there are so many responses on this thread, it's working... [/b][/quote]
They are not telling you anything. They are giving you a concept to follow. Some get it, some don't. Do you follow everything you read to a T? I don't. I tweek it to work for me. And they don't need to tell me what happens because I can see it for myself. I don't believe everything I hear or read but I will use them as a stepping stone.

Am I not making sense now? Wow, you were able to see my POV a little while ago. I wonder what happened.... If I make no sense, why bother responding to me. Maybe I am getting you to think as well. :-?

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Patrina

02-21-2004, 09:09 PM

If you read my earlier posts, I have and still follow the concept of Atkin's. I have been doing that for a few years now. I do recall stating that earlier. But I guess you are only reading what you wish to read. And you haven't answered my previous Q- Have you even used Atkin's before?

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 04:05 PM
They are not telling you anything. They are giving you a concept to follow. Some get it, some don't. Do you follow everything you read to a T? I don't. I tweek it to work for me. And they don't need to tell me what happens because I can see it for myself. I don't believe everything I hear or read but I will use them as a stepping stone.

Am I not making sense now? Wow, you were able to see my POV a little while ago. I wonder what happened.... If I make no sense, why bother responding to me. Maybe I am getting you to think as well. :-?

Hmmm, if you are reading a book, SOMEONE is telling you information. How do you KNOW that there IS a concept unless you've READ something...unless of course, you just a SUPER memory and you can recall EVERYTHING that was spoken to you from the people that you interviewed or talked to regarding this diet.

Also, you stated that you "tweeked" the diet...therefore, that means, that YOU DID NOT FOLLOW IT SPECIFICALLY!!! Therefore, you really don't know what would have happened had you followed the diet word for word because you just stated you did not! How can you talk about the specifics of a diet that you just admitted to not following...

You are making think AND formulate more questions...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 04:09 PM
If you read my earlier posts, I have and still follow the concept of Atkin's. I have been doing that for a few years now. I do recall stating that earlier. But I guess you are only reading what you wish to read. And you haven't answered my previous Q- Have you even used Atkin's before?

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
Where did you state that you still follow the Atkins concept?

I specifically asked you "how many years?"...I'm looking for a number...NOT something as general as " a few years"...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:17 PM

Patrina wrote on page 7 of this thread:
And you haven't answered my previous Q- Have you even used Atkin's before?

@Patrina-
Thanks for the laugh. I don't need to use Atkins because I already know what works well for my body...it's common sense...I don't need Atkins for that.

Tameka wrote on Page 7 of this thread:

Whatever Patrina...as I stated earlier, I don't need an Atkins diet to help me to lose weight...I was eating properly BEFORE Atkins became as popular and mainstream as it is now. Give me a GOOD reason to try Atkins AND the resources and I'll give it a shot.

I thought I covered that in the quotes above, but I guess not. Sooo, to make it clear, I have NOT used the Atkins diet...I don't have a need for it.

Patrina

02-21-2004, 09:22 PM

I follow the concept of the diet like I said. I followed it specifically and when I found what worked for me, I stuck to that. And how can YOU talk about the specifics of a diet that, since you refuse to answer my Q, obviously haven't even tried. But hey I could be wrong.

That is what pen and paper is for. Ppl tell you things that they studied and you write it down. You follow up by getting as many different views of said subject and that is where you get your info from. Puhleese TD, why read a book when you can go to the source? I think all your researching has made you only believe what you read. Interviewing someone and writing down their thoughts and findings is way more enlightening and a much better learning experience.

Please don't try to twist my words to make them work for you. I know what I say and said and I can claify anything you need.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 09:28 PM

reading this thread...i have to ask..did you sit down at dr. atkins knee?

why read a book when you can go to the source? I think all your researching has made you only believe what you read. ---ur words

:-?

my question now is...if at any point and time did you follow the atkins diet to the T? if not, then you can not truthfully say what the diet is all about...pros/cons...because you never experienced it by specifically following it as it is written in the book.

i am quick to tell people..the few months i did WW...i NEVA followed it to the T...therefore when i give people info about it..i tell them about the program..how it is built..but also let them know...i got out what i wanted and left the rest.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:29 PM

QUOTE=Patrina,Feb 21 2004, 04:22 PM-I follow the concept of the diet like I said.Â I followed it specifically and when I found what worked for me, I stuck to that.Â And how can YOU talk about the specifics of a diet that, since you refuse to answer my Q, obviously haven't even tried.Â But hey I could be wrong.

I've answered this question three times in this thread...

That is what pen and paper is for.Â Ppl tell you things that they studied and you write it down.Â You follow up by getting as many different views of said subject and that is where you get your info from.Â Puhleese TD, why read a book when you can go to the source?Â I think all your researching has made you only believe what you read.Â Interviewing someone and writing down their thoughts and findings is way more enlightening and a much better learning experience.Â So when did you interview Mr. Atkins? He IS the SOURCE!!!! What did he say? What did you learn from him?

YOU still have not said, how many years you have followed this concept?

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 04:17 PM
Patrina wrote on page 7 of this thread:
And you haven't answered my previous Q- Have you even used Atkin's before?

@Patrina-
Thanks for the laugh. I don't need to use Atkins because I already know what works well for my body...it's common sense...I don't need Atkins for that.

Tameka wrote on Page 7 of this thread:

Whatever Patrina...as I stated earlier, I don't need an Atkins diet to help me to lose weight...I was eating properly BEFORE Atkins became as popular and mainstream as it is now. Give me a GOOD reason to try Atkins AND the resources and I'll give it a shot.

I thought I covered that in the quotes above, but I guess not. Sooo, to make it clear, I have NOT used the Atkins diet...I don't have a need for it.
Patrina-
Here is the answer to your question...three times...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 09:34 PM

Patrina Feb 21 2004, 02:44 PM
If it didn't work for you, your bad. But it has worked for me. And I haven't finally lost some weight, I have been losing steadily for a few years now.

Here is where I stated how long I have used it.

Patrina Feb 21 2004, 02:09 PM
I enlisted the help of the Atkin's lifestyle and it works for me.

Here's where I stated that I have used the it.

I don't know about you when someone says that they have been using something for a few years that is automatically 3 years. Why? Because a couple is 2 and a few is 3 or more. Now you are pulling at strings Hon.

And since you haven't used it your words are moot. Because you don't know first hand whether or not it would work for you. Siennasilk's words have more leverage than yours because she is talking about something she knows personally not something she is just guessing on. She personally knows it didn't work for her. What do you know about it?

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 04:34 PM

I don't know about you when someone says that they have been using something for a few years that is automatically 3 years. Why? Because a couple is 2 and a few is 3 or more. Now you are pulling at strings Hon.

That someone did some research and was able to put some words and numbers on a piece of paper and prettied it up real nice so that is looks like it has some scientific backing. All that is relative. ---ur quote from previous page

relative...her.e...RELATIVE with the above quote....a few yrs is relative. a few to you may be 3 where as a few to the next person is 2 (because it is more than ONE) or it may be 6 yrs...when compared to 15...

a few yrs is relative also

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 04:34 PM
I don't know about you when someone says that they have been using something for a few years that is automatically 3 years.Â Why?Â Because a couple is 2 and a few is 3 or more.Â Now you are pulling at strings Hon.Â

And since you haven't used it your words are moot.Â Because you don't know first hand whether or not it would work for you.Â Siennasilk's words have more leverage than yours because she is talking about something she knows personally not something she is just guessing on.Â She personally knows it didn't work for her.Â What do you know about it?

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
Now you're lying!!! A "few years" is NOT telling me EXACTLY how many years that YOU have used this concept. Who told you that "few" automatically meant 3 years??? According to the Houghton Mifflin, Second College Edition, American Heritage Dictionary AND the Webster's New World Dictionary....the definition of few is as follows:
Not Many; a small number Now, where do you have it shown in writing that "few" automatically means 3?

*but I'm pulling at strings*...alrighty then...whatever...

Also, you've stated yourself that you TWEEKED the diet for yourself...implying that you didn't follow it exactly either....Need I for you?

Patrina

02-21-2004, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 04:29 PM
So when did you interview Mr. Atkins? He IS the SOURCE!!!! What did he say? What did you learn from him?

Did I say that I interviewed Atkin's? Anybody, anyone, someone? No one huh? I thought not. Once again, don't put words in my mouth. Chill TD, your claws are showing. :duck Dang, all this over a diet you haven't even use yourself. . . .a little obsessed aren't we? :-P

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Patrina+Feb 21 2004, 04:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Patrina @ Feb 21 2004, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 04:29 PM
So when did you interview Mr. Atkins?Â He IS the SOURCE!!!!Â What did he say?Â What did you learn from him?

Did I say that I interviewed Atkin's? Anybody, anyone, someone? No one huh? I thought not. Once again, don't put words in my mouth. Chill TD, your claws are showing. :duck Dang, all this over a diet you haven't even use yourself. . . .a little obsessed aren't we? :-P

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina [/b][/quote]

Puhleese TD, why read a book when you can go to the source?Â I think all your researching has made you only believe what you read.Â Interviewing someone and writing down their thoughts and findings is way more enlightening and a much better learning experience.Â

THIS is an EXACT from YOUR post. It is in bold where YOU said, why read a book when you can go to the source. Mr. Atkins IS the source....what part of that connection did you NOT make?

I'm not putting words in your mouth...I don't have to do so...I'm just quoting what you said.

I'm not obsessed...I just have questions...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 21 2004, 04:28 PM
reading this thread...i have to ask..did you sit down at dr. atkins knee?

why read a book when you can go to the source? I think all your researching has made you only believe what you read. ---ur words

:-?

my question now is...if at any point and time did you follow the atkins diet to the T? if not, then you can not truthfully say what the diet is all about...pros/cons...because you never experienced it by specifically following it as it is written in the book.

i am quick to tell people..the few months i did WW...i NEVA followed it to the T...therefore when i give people info about it..i tell them about the program..how it is built..but also let them know...i got out what i wanted and left the rest.
No I did follow it to a T until I found what worked for me. How else can you do something if you don't understand it exactly? After you understand the concept you take what works for you. So yes I can say that I followed it to a T for an extent.

And TDHayes is the one obsessed with exactly how long I have been doing Atkin's so I could have told you that that was relative. It is only important to me but she needed an answer and I gave her one. She doesn't like it, oh well.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 09:56 PM

Patrina-
Do you realize how stupid you sound? You contradicted yourself in your response BSD's post!!!!
No I did follow it to a T until I found what worked for me. How else can you do something if you don't understand it exactly? After you understand the concept you take what works for you. So yes I can say that I followed it to a T for an extent.

And you STILL have NOT answered my question in years!...*shrugs*...whatever...

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 04:52 PM

No I did follow it to a T until I found what worked for me. How else can you do something if you don't understand it exactly? After you understand the concept you take what works for you. So yes I can say that I followed it to a T for an extent.

????? ur first and last sentence contradicts each other....

1st...you did not follow it to a T
2nd...you followed it to a T to a certain extent

what did i miss?

Patrina

02-21-2004, 09:58 PM

He is not the only source on Atkin's. Maybe that is where your research failed you. Why would you go to the Atkin's camp alone for info? You would only get biased info. I figured you would see the connection in that.

Basically, TD you are screaming at me about info you can find yourself. I did and since you are the researching expert I am sure you can as well.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:01 PM

Sweetie,
I searched the links provided in various posts, I searched Medline, I searched PubMed, and Yahoo too. Didn't find THIS diet having been done for more than 5 years on people in a study...point blank.

When did I start screaming at you? Who said that I was expert on anything? ...Certainly NOT me.

Also, if Atkins is NOT the source, why is it named after him?...what and who are these OTHER sources as you put it...

You're not making sense...

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 10:04 PM

i am asking now..because i want to KNOW...this isnt to bash you patrina or any one else following the atkins plan...

what are the other sources? who are they? this plan has HIS name on it! so why would i or any one else look somewhere else other than HIS camp? if we were discussing the generic term of LOW CARB..then we could look at all info...relating to it. ...all kinds of sources..

but this topic is about atkins.. dr atkins and the lifestyle he developed and pushed. the one that we are seeing all over the place.

and this seeing the connection in biased info...that didnt seem to apply earlier..like page 2 or 3 when you provided links to the site...so that we can read what atkins wife said about his death.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:07 PM

So when are you gonna let me borrow your book?

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 04:52 PM
[quote]
my question now is...if at any point and time did you follow the atkins diet to the T? if not, then you can not truthfully say what the diet is all about...pros/cons...because you never experienced it by specifically following it as it is written in the book.

No, I did follow it to a T until I found what worked for me. How else can you do something if you don't understand it exactly? After you understand the concept you take what works for you. So yes I can say that I followed it to a T for an extent.

And TDHayes is the one obsessed with exactly how long I have been doing Atkin's so I could have told you that that was relative. It is only important to me but she needed an answer and I gave her one. She doesn't like it, oh well.

Peace and Napptural hair grease
Patrina

She asked a Q and I answered it. Dang, what a difference a comma makes. :rolleyes

I said a few years. If I just stated that (IMO for clarification) when someone says a few I think 3 or more. What the hell do you think? You can badger me all you want for an answer you got it. A few years. You don't like it . . . .

Give me a I. . . . I
Give me a D. . . .D
Give me a O. . . .O
Give me a N. . . .N
Give me a T. . . .T
Give me a C. . . .C
Give me a A. . . .A
Give me a R. . . .R
Give me a E. . . .E

What does that spell? I DON'T CARE!! I bet now your gonna trip over my lack of an ' in my cheer. . . . :rolleyes

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:09 PM

If you didn't care, you would have left when you told us goodbye around page 5 or 6...like right here...

Alas, I am tired of this and I will bow out. . . toodles. . .

And you STILL aren't answering the question in number of years as I asked. YOU STILL contradicted yourself in the earlier post...

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 10:12 PM

school teacher reporting for duty on the weekend...

a comma? you typed two entirely different sentences in the same paragraph...you said you didnt...and then you said you did..

cant speak for all....but to not care anymore...you would have been gone when you told us I will try to leave you ladies in your "I hate Atkin's" pity party. -- ur words

wait...just reread...you said you would TRY oops :smug

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:12 PM

Obviously, you didn't catch that. I don't care that you claim that you haven't gotten the answer about the number years I have been using it that you are getting heated about. Goodness, chile, I can almost feel the emotion coming through my PC. Chill, it really isn't that serious.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:15 PM

Chill...Gurl, I've been laughing at your posts since you came into this thread...

So, you're not answering the question...hmm...usually means that you can't...oh well...whatever...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:17 PM

Guess that means you aren't going to let me borrow your Atkins book huh? :duck

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:17 PM

No, I did follow it to a T until I found what worked for me. How else can you do something if you don't understand it exactly? After you understand the concept you take what works for you. So yes I can say that I followed it to a T for an extent.

How is this contradictory? I am saying that I followed it to a T for an extent in both sentences. She said that if you haven't followed it to a T that I couldn't say anything on the subject. I then countered with "No, I did follow it to a ....." Where is the contradiction?

Peace and Nappturl hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:21 PM

Awww that's cute. You think a guilt trip or trying to make me question myself is going to make me give you the answer I already gave. Just not in the words you wanted it in. Real cute, but :nohuh

Girl, I have my mom over here right now and she is cracking up too. She is telling me to quit but your too entertaining. Especially with the name-calling and played-out sarcasm

If you don't use it, why do you need the book?

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Patrina@Feb 21 2004, 05:17 PM

No, I did follow it to a T until I found what worked for me. How else can you do something if you don't understand it exactly? After you understand the concept you take what works for you. So yes I can say that I followed it to a T for an extent.

How is this contradictory? I am saying that I followed it to a T for an extent in both sentences. She said that if you haven't followed it to a T that I couldn't say anything on the subject. I then countered with "No, I did follow it to a ....." Where is the contradiction?

Peace and Nappturl hair grease :rainfro
Patrina
going back and rereading...i MISREAD and APOLOGIZE on that point

however, my other questions and stance are still the same

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:25 PM

Who's giving a guilt trip? Patrina, who are you directing this guilt trip statement to?

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:27 PM

To the people who are currently reading this thread, please enjoy the laughter.

@Patrina
Since you say that I basically don't know much about the diet, I would like to read the book to see what you and others are talking about...it's called research.

Who called names? I said that you were lying...I didn't call anyone out of their name...did I miss something?...

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 10:29 PM

who called names here? :-? guess strange things appear on your screen. questions were still never answered..lol...oh well...

the latest question was...what were the other sources to turn to other than atkins..since this is an atkins topic.....just in case you say you answered my questions already.

tell mom i said HI :heart

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 21 2004, 05:04 PM
i am asking now..because i want to KNOW...this isnt to bash you patrina or any one else following the atkins plan...

what are the other sources? who are they? this plan has HIS name on it! so why would i or any one else look somewhere else other than HIS camp? if we were discussing the generic term of LOW CARB..then we could look at all info...relating to it. ...all kinds of sources..

but this topic is about atkins.. dr atkins and the lifestyle he developed and pushed. the one that we are seeing all over the place.

and this seeing the connection in biased info...that didnt seem to apply earlier..like page 2 or 3 when you provided links to the site...so that we can read what atkins wife said about his death.
...Guess we won't be getting your "other sources" either... ;-)

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:31 PM

If you have to ask, maybe it's you. . .

TD let it go. This has gone on for over 5 pages now and you are still asking me the same Qs just differently. Let it go. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?

Once you get the answers you yearn for will you starting using Atkin's? Probably not because you already found something for you. Just stick to that and be happy that you found something for you.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Saundus

02-21-2004, 10:35 PM

Ok, what i think is...excerpts come from the site posted by td--

The medical examiner's report also noted that Atkins had a history of heart trouble, including congestive heart failure and high blood pressure.

Physicians for Responsible Medicine, the group that released the report and promotes a vegetarian diet, acknowledged that fluid retention may have been responsible for some of Atkins' weight gain, but probably not all of it. The group maintains that the Atkins diet poses weight and health risks to the millions who follow it.

A healthy 6-foot man weighing 258 pounds would normally qualify as obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. At 195 pounds, he would be considered overweight.

I really didn't have to read much further for me to know that this diet is not healthy. Even if the diet produces weight loss, well....not trying to be funny but you may not be around later to see the results. I can only imagine how a long time Atkins dieter's arteries looks.

If the diet produces weight loss, IMO it is not healthy at all. It is only sending the followers of the diet into the same downward spiral that he himself went through (clogged arteries, HBP :nohuh ). Is any diet worth that? I know for me it isn't.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:37 PM

Patrina-
You ARE a TRIP!!! I like answers...which you are not providing...guess you can't answer them...or have something to hide and so you're choosing not to answer...whatever works for you...

Why would I want to start Atkins once I get the answers that I'm looking for?...that's like asking if I'm going to become Muslim once I finish reading the Quran (no offense to anyone)...One has very little to do with the other...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:39 PM

Welcome happie2bnappie98...thanks for the quotes. You make some VERY good points...

I wish they would exhume his body for an internal autopsy...I really would like to know how his arteries looked on the inside...pictures speak volumes...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:44 PM

I am not divulging anything to you because I was able to get off my **** and look for what I needed before I started Atkin's and I am sure you can too. I thought I said that already.

Written by TDHayes

You do realize that you sound ignorant right?

Written by TDHayes

Now, you REALLY sound ignorant

Written by TDHayes

Do you realize how stupid you sound

^^^^Amazing how I am capable of having a debate/discussion with you without resorting to namecalling. . . .

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:46 PM

That was NOT name-calling!

There is a difference between me saying you "sound" like something AND calling you something...BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

So where did I call you a name again?

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:52 PM

Jessy55-
How did you enjoy your walk? :-)

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by happie2bnappie98@Feb 21 2004, 05:35 PM
Ok, what i think is...excerpts come from the site posted by td--

The medical examiner's report also noted that Atkins had a history of heart trouble, including congestive heart failure and high blood pressure.

Physicians for Responsible Medicine, the group that released the report and promotes a vegetarian diet, acknowledged that fluid retention may have been responsible for some of Atkins' weight gain, but probably not all of it. The group maintains that the Atkins diet poses weight and health risks to the millions who follow it.

A healthy 6-foot man weighing 258 pounds would normally qualify as obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. At 195 pounds, he would be considered overweight.

I really didn't have to read much further for me to know that this diet is not healthy. Even if the diet produces weight loss, well....not trying to be funny but you may not be around later to see the results. I can only imagine how a long time Atkins dieter's arteries looks.

If the diet produces weight loss, IMO it is not healthy at all. It is only sending the followers of the diet into the same downward spiral that he himself went through (clogged arteries, HBP :nohuh ). Is any diet worth that? I know for me it isn't.
Good points and I can respect them. I understand how the huge amount of greasy intake can, for some, be detrimental to their health. But I don't believe that applies for everyone. Some ppl using Atkin's think it is free reign to eat anything anyhow and that is not true. Those are the ones that will do a diet by any means necessary. . . as long as it allows them to continue with their unhealthy eating habits.

I can honestly say that I have used Atkin's as a stepping stone for me. I am not closed minded so I can respect your points. Everything has a good side and a bad side. I will never dispute that. I have found a concept that works for me and only me. And if I find anything that (caused by Atkin's) shows itself to be harmful in my health, I will post. I have no problem conceding.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Saundus

02-21-2004, 10:55 PM

@ Patrina and any other faithful follower of a diet that is producing evidence that it is hazardous to your health, in no way am I judging you. Will any evidence supporting that this diet is hazardous to your health stop you from being a follower?

Given the evidence against the Atkin's diet, I have to wonder if we as a society get caught up with losing weight so bad that we tend to not want to do it the healthiest ways and seek the easier ways instead. I am almost certain that's the case. We are a LAZY nation, IMO this diet should not have even been introduced.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 10:55 PM

How will you know if something is "caused" by Atkins?...are you living in a vacuum/bubble?...did we miss something...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 05:46 PM
That was NOT name-calling!

There is a difference between me saying you "sound" like something AND calling you something...BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

So where did I call you a name again?
Whatever TD- How bout this. If you have nothing to add, don't write. . .especially to me. Seriously, if your going to debate debate, don't go beyond that. Your having a temper tantrum because of what? Get over it and get on.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 10:59 PM

:doh i am missing this temper tantrum

all along i thought this was just a LONG discussion..with people asking for answers...or for assistance in finding answers or other relative information in accordance with this topic.

that is so ..I (can only speak for me) I will be able to get a better understanding..etc. so if i do find that it isnt the "negative" lifestyle as i perceive it to be...i would like to change my thinking on it..i dont want to remain ignorant..and no..that doesnt mean that i would go back to trying it again...i just like to know..

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 21 2004, 05:59 PM
:doh i am missing this temper tantrum

all along i thought this was just a LONG discussion..with people asking for answers...
:app :app :app

Who's having a temper tantrum?...

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 11:02 PM

Seriously though, how will you know if the Atkins diet is "causing" anything negative with your body? Are you excluding ALL external factors? Are you eating foods specifically listed for this diet? What's your baseline/reference point for when something "began" to go "wrong"?...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by happie2bnappie98@Feb 21 2004, 05:55 PM
@ Patrina and any other faithful dieter that is producing evidence that it is hazardous to your health, in no way am I judging you. Will any evidence supporting that this diet is hazardous to your health stop you from being a follower?

Given the evidence against the Atkin's diet, I have to wonder if we as a society get caught up with losing weight so bad that we tend to not want to do it the healthiest ways and seek the easier ways instead. I am almost certain that's the case. We are a LAZY nation, IMO this diet should not have even been introduced.
In a heartbeat, I am not that out of shape that I have to continue using something that causes me harm. However, I do study my own health. I make sure cholesterol, heart, everything is in check. I don't have to liberty to let me health go to the wayside especially for a diet.

I have used it as a stepping stone. I can understand that those using the diet as a way to eat whatever they want is detrimental but not everyone is so blinded that they can't see bad health from good health. And not everyone is so uncommitted that they can't go without their fav desert for awhile. If I find anything, anything in my health caused by my food intake that shows harm to me you better believe I would stop.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 11:03 PM

Dang! Y'all need to go for a walk or something! :duck

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 11:06 PM

:lol @ Jessy

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Jessy55@Feb 21 2004, 06:03 PM
Dang! Y'all need to go for a walk or something! :duck
lol...did a wonderful workout at the gym this morning...
45 min spin class...then an upper body workout with weights and spent 20 mins in the sauna reading hairstory (GOOD BOOK)

this has been entertaining to me....i am on aol..chatting..and talking on the phone. i done ATE some food ...now i am just reading and typing some more...

Patrina

02-21-2004, 11:07 PM

:lol :lol

Saundus

02-21-2004, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Patrina+Feb 21 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Patrina @ Feb 21 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-happie2bnappie98@Feb 21 2004, 05:35 PM
Ok, what i think is...excerpts come from the site posted by td--

The medical examiner's report also noted that Atkins had a history of heart trouble, including congestive heart failure and high blood pressure.

Physicians for Responsible Medicine, the group that released the report and promotes a vegetarian diet, acknowledged that fluid retention may have been responsible for some of Atkins' weight gain, but probably not all of it. The group maintains that the Atkins diet poses weight and health risks to the millions who follow it.

A healthy 6-foot man weighing 258 pounds would normally qualify as obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. At 195 pounds, he would be considered overweight.

I really didn't have to read much further for me to know that this diet is not healthy. Even if the diet produces weight loss, well....not trying to be funny but you may not be around later to see the results. I can only imagine how a long time Atkins dieter's arteries looks.

If the diet produces weight loss, IMO it is not healthy at all. It is only sending the followers of the diet into the same downward spiral that he himself went through (clogged arteries, HBP :nohuh ). Is any diet worth that? I know for me it isn't.
Good points and I can respect them. I understand how the huge amount of greasy intake can, for some, be detrimental to their health. But I don't believe that applies for everyone. Some ppl using Atkin's think it is free reign to eat anything anyhow and that is not true. Those are the ones that will do a diet by any means necessary. . . as long as it allows them to continue with their unhealthy eating habits.

I can honestly say that I have used Atkin's as a stepping stone for me. I am not closed minded so I can respect your points. Everything has a good side and a bad side. I will never dispute that. I have found a concept that works for me and only me. And if I find anything that (caused by Atkin's) shows itself to be harmful in my health, I will post. I have no problem conceding.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina [/b][/quote]
I am all for losing weight, so congrats to you on your weight loss. Naturally, I am concerned though.

Since the Atkins is a stepping stone for you, do you think you will stop once you have achieved your goals? Are you convinced that it will cause no harm? Is the only way you will stop the diet if something bad happens as a result? Sorry for bombarding you with questions. I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 11:08 PM

So, I'm not the only having a good conversation and entertainment on Nappturality? :-) :-) :lol

Saundus

02-21-2004, 11:12 PM

Yes, ma'am Miss Jessy. I am leaving in a few to enjoy the evening.

I cannot resist NP sometimes.

Patrina

02-21-2004, 11:15 PM

Actually, I have recently toned down the influence of the diet and put more of my ideas into my food intake. I have to give props where props are due though because I got the concept from Atkin's.

As as right now it has caused no harm because I keep up with my health but I am not blinded that I don't think something can't happen. I have been doing Atkin's for a few years :lol and I have yet to notice any adverse effects.

I think my first comment my answer this one too but no if I was still going hard with Atkin's no something bad would not be the only reason I would stop using it. I toned it down because my goal had been met. And I have developed a better way of eating because of it. I hope that answers your Qs but feel free to ask more. I don't mind.

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 11:19 PM

I would ask more questions, but you don't answer my questions Patrina and so that would be a waste for me.

Jessy55

02-21-2004, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by BrownsuggaDIVA@Feb 21 2004, 11:06 PM
did a wonderful workout at the gym this morning...
45 min spin class...then an upper body workout with weights and spent 20 mins in the sauna reading hairstory (GOOD BOOK)

Yeah, rub it in! :)

tdhayes

02-21-2004, 11:22 PM

Thanks for the laughs people...this was definitely an entertaining thread :-)

A pineapple pizza w/no cheese and extra sauce sounds good right now...I think I'll go get some.

Have a great night folks! It's been interesting!

~Peace

Patrina

02-21-2004, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 06:19 PM
I would ask more questions, but you don't answer my questions Patrina and so that would be a waste for me.
If you ask nicely, I might. Just leave the number Q out of it. I already answered that one. :thumbsup

Peace and Napptural hair grease :rainfro
Patrina

Saundus

02-21-2004, 11:28 PM

You have answered my questions Patrina. I hope your health stays well and you develop no serious side effects from the Atkin's diet.

Good evening ladies. I am out. :)

BrownsuggaDIVA

02-21-2004, 11:31 PM

mine werent... :-?

you were busy with tdhayes...

oh well, guess they werent meant to be addressed..lol..and i asked kindly sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many times :-cre

tdhayes

02-22-2004, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by Patrina+Feb 21 2004, 06:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Patrina @ Feb 21 2004, 06:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tdhayes@Feb 21 2004, 06:19 PM
I would ask more questions, but you don't answer my questions Patrina and so that would be a waste for me.
If you ask nicely, I might. Just leave the number Q out of it. I already answered that one. :thumbsup
[/b][/quote]
Not good enough for me...either you will or you won't. When I DID ask nicely, you didn't answer them...so I have no motivation to ask again.

Just so that you know, I ask questions because I want to understand something. If I'm asking a question more than once, it wasn't understood by me...

BSD still has unanswered questions for you...feel free to answer hers...

Have a nice life~

stillwater09

02-23-2004, 11:02 PM

very interesting responses, this looks like some of the religious forums over there! :duck

i haven't read all 11 some pages, but i'm curious to know how long you've been on Atkins, (that's to everyone that's swearing by it). And how many times have you fallen off, or checked the fine print to add that apple you want. I tried it lost some pounds, got rid of my bread addiction, and was off in a matter of a week. it quickly became DISGUSTING to me. And once I regained my conciousness, and thought about it, it makes NO sense. Short term, yes, you'll lose, your cholesterol MAY go down, maybe. Dr. Atkins made much money off of this and it's a crying shame that we as human sit and wait like children for someone to guide us to everything. we need 'how to' guides to scratch our butts. It's sad. We all know, that fruits and veggies are natural (semi natural anyway...) how can you feel ok, saying nooo, but turning to a stick of butter to begin your 'FAT FAST'? It's because we want it now. NOOOWW...Atkins is one of the quickest ways to lose weight, but at what cost?

I asked earlier how long you have been on this train? the longest non- (or infrequently) cheating Atkins follower I know (7-8 years now). Looks like an average joe--stomach pouch, but normal size. But, even though I have not seen him in 3 years, I can STILL remember the smell of his TOXIC breath. I can see the bags under his eyes even though he had energy...most of all his TOXIC breath could fill a room with one hello. He SWOOORE by this diet, and lost weight, a lot of weight, but at what cost, gawd....

just me, telling a story.

tdhayes

02-24-2004, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by stillnappy@Feb 23 2004, 06:02 PM
very interesting responses, this looks like some of the religious forums over there! :duck

i haven't read all 11 some pages, but i'm curious to know how long you've been on Atkins, (that's to everyone that's swearing by it). And how many times have you fallen off, or checked the fine print to add that apple you want. I tried it lost some pounds, got rid of my bread addiction, and was off in a matter of a week. it quickly became DISGUSTING to me. And once I regained my conciousness, and thought about it, it makes NO sense. Short term, yes, you'll lose, your cholesterol MAY go down, maybe. Dr. Atkins made much money off of this and it's a crying shame that we as human sit and wait like children for someone to guide us to everything. we need 'how to' guides to scratch our butts. It's sad. We all know, that fruits and veggies are natural (semi natural anyway...) how can you feel ok, saying nooo, but turning to a stick of butter to begin your 'FAT FAST'? It's because we want it now. NOOOWW...Atkins is one of the quickest ways to lose weight, but at what cost?

I asked earlier how long you have been on this train? the longest non- (or infrequently) cheating Atkins follower I know (7-8 years now). Looks like an average joe--stomach pouch, but normal size. But, even though I have not seen him in 3 years, I can STILL remember the smell of his TOXIC breath. I can see the bags under his eyes even though he had energy...most of all his TOXIC breath could fill a room with one hello. He SWOOORE by this diet, and lost weight, a lot of weight, but at what cost, gawd....

just me, telling a story.
:lol :lol :lol
Gurl, you're a mess...Thanks for the morning laugh!