Black Male Unemployment: What's Really Going On?

[CatSuga]

http://www.bloggernews.net/15269


Black men who graduate from a four-year college do reasonably well in terms of employment, compared with other ethnic groups. But most black men do not go to college. In big cities, more than half do not even finish high school.
Their employment histories are gruesome. Over the past few years, the percentage of black male high school graduates in their 20s who were jobless (including those who abandoned all efforts to find a job) has ranged from well over a third to roughly 50 percent. Those are the kinds of statistics you get during a depression.
For dropouts, the rates of joblessness are staggering. For black males who left high school without a diploma, the real jobless rate at various times over the past few years has ranged from 59 percent to a breathtaking 72 percent.“Seventy-two percent jobless!” said Senator Charles Schumer, chairman of Congress’s Joint Economic Committee, which held a hearing last week on joblessness among black men. “This compares to 29 percent of white and 19 percent of Hispanic dropouts.”
Senator Schumer described the problem of black male unemployment as “profound, persistent and perplexing.”
Jobless rates at such sky-high levels don’t just destroy lives, they destroy entire communities. They breed all manner of antisocial behavior, including violent crime. One of the main reasons there are so few black marriages is that there are so many black men who are financially incapable of supporting a family.“These numbers should generate a sense of national alarm,” said Senator Schumer
[/b]

Unemployment of black men at 'crisis' level
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2...M200703085.html (http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2007/03/08/AM200703085.html)

__________________________________________________ ______________________
<This is were I&#39;m supposed to enter some dialogue, and I know it&#39;s rude to start a thread half done......but unlike many of my Black brothers I&#39;m employed and have to go do some work right now so I&#39;ll be back in about 90 mins>

[Machiavelli]

Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate. The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. There&#39;s no long-term career in that type of lifestyle and no retirement plan either because none of them either live long enough or are out on the street long enough to make it that far, but they&#39;re there just long enough to entice others to try it and think they can beat the system.

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. The bar is set higher for black women than it is for men overall. And as long as it&#39;s the status quo, it&#39;s likely that the unemployment level is going to maintain or escalate, along with the number of black men in jail and prison or the grave, which cuts down on the number of black marriages eventually.

[pacunurse30]

Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate. The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. There&#39;s no long-term career in that type of lifestyle and no retirement plan either because none of them either live long enough or are out on the street long enough to make it that far, but they&#39;re there just long enough to entice others to try it and think they can beat the system.

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. The bar is set higher for black women than it is for men overall. And as long as it&#39;s the status quo, it&#39;s likely that the unemployment level is going to maintain or escalate, along with the number of black men in jail and prison or the grave, which cuts down on the number of black marriages eventually.
[/b]

This all makes me cringe. It also frightens me because I&#39;m raising a son who will later become a Black man. My biggest fear is for him to become one of these statistics. One of the things going in his favor, however, is the fact that he comes from a two parent household. He has a positive role model in his father that he can aspire to. I really think this is where a lot of Black men have gotten the short end of the stick.

Even though my son has all the right variables in his family life, he still has to deal with the outside environment. We live in the Baltimore area, which has one of the highest crime rates in the country. I think it&#39;s like 3rd on the list or something. It&#39;s definitely in the top 10. So I&#39;m very careful who I let him play with. The kids who play in the park near our building are not the kind of children I want him to be friends with. Most of them are headed down the wrong path. They&#39;re out at all times of the night. They curse and talk about sexually graphic things at a very young age (and the littlest ones are the worst). Not a parent is in sight when they are out playing. I don&#39;t know about you guys, but I&#39;m on my son like White on rice! Granted, he&#39;s only 4, but I don&#39;t plan to let him run around the neighborhood by himself for a loooong time. Matter of fact, he might have to be grown before I let him do that, LOL.

[sonce]

Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate. The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. There&#39;s no long-term career in that type of lifestyle and no retirement plan either because none of them either live long enough or are out on the street long enough to make it that far, but they&#39;re there just long enough to entice others to try it and think they can beat the system.

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. The bar is set higher for black women than it is for men overall. And as long as it&#39;s the status quo, it&#39;s likely that the unemployment level is going to maintain or escalate, along with the number of black men in jail and prison or the grave, which cuts down on the number of black marriages eventually.
[/b]
So, in your opinion, how much responsibility do black men bear for their own situation? Is it all society&#39;s doing?

And honestly, I don&#39;t know where in the world the majority of women do you mean to tell me that you seriously think that a black woman with a choice of a serious relationship with either a street hustler or a lawyer would leap at the street hustler? :huh: I think what I see is that in many communities plagued by poverty and crime, women there don&#39;t have the choice between Mr. 9 to 5 and the drug dealer. As the stats Catsuga posted show, most men in those communities don&#39;t have jobs, they don&#39;t go to college. So there aren&#39;t any well-educated black male accountants, businessmen, lawyers and engineers rolling through these communities trying to marry but getting snubbed (maybe trying to pay for sex or hit it and then leave it, but marry or have a serious relationship? nah. I&#39;ve found that educated black men are the most elitist bunch known to man). Rather, a more realistic portrayal of the options the women there have in these communities is: broke, likely criminal, uneducated man without a dime to his names vs. broke, likely criminal, uneducated man making some money selling drugs, rapping in clubs, or engaged some other low-level but at least income-generating activity. Hence, why many women in those communities choose the latter. Because if you&#39;re going to have a criminal-minded, parasitic punk either way, then you might as well have one who can help you keep a roof over your head. So I don&#39;t see this great, overwhelming love of uneducated men that you do. I see women who don&#39;t have viable options because the men in their communities are SORRY as all get out.

Which brings us back to the issue of serious unemployment among black men. What role do you, as a black man, see black men playing in their own plight? I ask because in discussions like these, I&#39;ve found it really hard to pin black men down on what decision-making power and influence over their own situations, if any, they think they have. So I try to get opinions from black men on this question when I can.

[cmsheart]

Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate. The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. There&#39;s no long-term career in that type of lifestyle and no retirement plan either because none of them either live long enough or are out on the street long enough to make it that far, but they&#39;re there just long enough to entice others to try it and think they can beat the system.

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. The bar is set higher for black women than it is for men overall. And as long as it&#39;s the status quo, it&#39;s likely that the unemployment level is going to maintain or escalate, along with the number of black men in jail and prison or the grave, which cuts down on the number of black marriages eventually.
[/b]
I was going to say that but I&#39;m glad you broke it down as a male. Thanks.

[roberta1292]

Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate. The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. There&#39;s no long-term career in that type of lifestyle and no retirement plan either because none of them either live long enough or are out on the street long enough to make it that far, but they&#39;re there just long enough to entice others to try it and think they can beat the system.

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. The bar is set higher for black women than it is for men overall. And as long as it&#39;s the status quo, it&#39;s likely that the unemployment level is going to maintain or escalate, along with the number of black men in jail and prison or the grave, which cuts down on the number of black marriages eventually.
[/b]


It always amazes me how the absolute smartest boys I know in school have openly said to others that they are not even going to try and go to college. Appearently they think its a waste of time for them. And its heartbreaking to me, because I know what they have the potential to do in their lives, but they think that as a black male, there is no other way to make it besides rapping and hustling. So their all in gangs, and don&#39;t care about school anymore. I grew up with many of these boys, so it is hard for me to watch them live like their living now, and even harder for me to imagine what kind of life they are going to have in the future if they keep acting like they are. I&#39;ve tried to talk to them about this before, and hopefully I&#39;m not wasting my breath...

[Peaches]

You have to be careful when you&#39;re reading statistics because some of them only report half-truths to support someone&#39;s theory. The 72% number only represents those who did not graduate from high school, not those who did. So this headline, "Unemployment of black men at &#39;crisis&#39; level" is very misleading. Only unemployment of black male high school dropouts is at crisis level. There is a big difference. There is a higher percentage of black males who have graduated from high school than those who have not.

The stats vary from region to region and neighborhood to neighborhood, and other things impact the statistics. In North Carolina (http://www.dpi.state.nc.us/newsroom/news/2006-07/20070228-01), overall graduation rates for blacks are higher than those of hispanics. If the stats are saying that more hispanic high school dropouts have jobs than black males, it could mean that more hispanics are dropping out of high school to get jobs. A higher percentage of blacks stay in high school and graduate but of those who do dropout, fewer of them get jobs. This could be the case with catsuga&#39;s statistics. This is not surprising since McGruff the Crime Dog has told us this in third grade. And we all know that a white high school dropout is far more likely to obtain employment than a black dropout, so that&#39;s nothing new.

With regard to the enticement to make fast money, the same lure is out there for black girls to be video ho&#39;s. The lure and enticement is usually a matter of the desire to have material things that one doesn&#39;t have access to. The Urban Institute reported several years ago regarding the disparity of graduation rates for those from disadvantaged neighborhoods:

report (http://www.urban.org/publications/410934.html)

* The national graduation rate is 68 percent, with nearly one-third of all public high school students failing to graduate.
* Tremendous racial gaps are found for graduation rates.
* Students from historically disadvantaged minority groups (American Indian, Hispanic, Black) have little more than a fifty-fifty chance of finishing high school with a diploma.
* By comparison, graduation rates for Whites and Asians are 75 and 77 percent nationally.
* Males graduate from high school at a rate 8 percent lower than female students.
* Graduation rates for students who attend school in high poverty, racially segregated, and urban school districts lag from 15 to 18 percent behind their peers.
* A great deal of variation in graduation rates and gaps among student groups is found across regions of the country as well as the states.

So it&#39;s kind of hard to tell someone who is raggedy and never had anything to "get in line and wait your turn, work hard and stay in school" when their schools and facilities are inferior to those from affluent neighborhoods. The people on the other side of town aren&#39;t waiting for anything.. the school board sends it straight over there with no questions asked. Those who wish to apply to magnet schools are encouraged to &#39;apply online&#39;, when their parents don&#39;t have computers at home. The delayed gratification concept gets kind of old.

[JustAnotherNappyGirl]

You have to be careful when you&#39;re reading statistics because some of them only report half-truths to support someone&#39;s theory. The 72% number only represents those who did not graduate from high school, not those who did. So this headline, "Unemployment of black men at &#39;crisis&#39; level" is very misleading. Only unemployment of black male high school dropouts is at crisis level. [/b]

I dunno...the story goes on to say:


Over the past few years, the percentage of black male high school graduates in their 20s who were jobless (including those who abandoned all efforts to find a job) has ranged from well over a third to roughly 50 percent. [/b]

1/3 to 1/2? It that&#39;s true, I think it qualifies as "crisis level".

[CatSuga]

Mr. Machiavelli said everything I was going say.



Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate.[/b]

This is the reason I don&#39;t have any female friends. It&#39;s rare for me to meet a black girl my age whose boyfriend is not associated with drugs.
I&#39;m too paranoid to be associated with drug dealers. Dope boys stay in drama that I don&#39;t want to get involved with. I don&#39;t want to ever spend another night in jail, I have son to raise, plus I don&#39;t want to jeopardize my ability to recieve finiancial aid (and foodstamps :D ).
The last thing I need is for all us to be riding out to the Chinese buffet, get stopped by the police, and taken to jail because he tossed the dope down on the floor.

The females I used to hang with think that every guy I&#39;ve dated was lame because they didn&#39;t have enough thug in them. :rolleyes:



The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. [/b]
The supply isn&#39;t even meeting the demand.
It&#39;s gotten to the point now that there are soooooooooo many dope boys that no one is making any money. Dope boys used to stay dope-boy-fresh. Now all of them look damn homeless. :lol:

[Scribetastic]

Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate. The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. There&#39;s no long-term career in that type of lifestyle and no retirement plan either because none of them either live long enough or are out on the street long enough to make it that far, but they&#39;re there just long enough to entice others to try it and think they can beat the system.

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. The bar is set higher for black women than it is for men overall. And as long as it&#39;s the status quo, it&#39;s likely that the unemployment level is going to maintain or escalate, along with the number of black men in jail and prison or the grave, which cuts down on the number of black marriages eventually.
[/b]
It&#39;s sad. I know that I was pushed to go to college and get an education. I think if I&#39;d had a brother that he would have been too. However, it would have been much harder for him. I noticed that in college. I worked with a click of young black men at university. Just small things like commuting to school could mean big drama for them because UCLA is in Westwood which is in a very rich and white area of L.A. I&#39;d drive from home to school with no problem. I also lived near school with no problem. I would hear about them getting stopped for the most ridiculous of reasons. I&#39;m glad to say that all of them got through, graduated and are doing quite well. It&#39;s just that the MAJORITY of our boys and men need to be headed in that direction.

I think a lot does have to do with low or misguided standards. If all you want to be is a thug, an athelete or a rapper, well, none of those choices requires that you hit the books. In other communities and cultures being a doctor, a scholar, a successful business owner, a community leader and a good father are the goals. You can see the difference in their numbers too.

I know that I&#39;ve sworn if I have a son that I want to bombard him with positive images of hard-working black men, so he can see himself in them.

I also agree the headline and spin on the numbers is misleading in a sense. They&#39;re talking about high school dropouts but they&#39;ve written it to imply that it applies to all black men. It&#39;s just another example of putting a negative spin on just about any black story.

[BlackPearls]

Unfortunately this predicament is spreading worldwide. Although I live outside of the USA, we have the exact same problem at home! My supervisors have recently decided to get our industrial (labour) staff registered as water treatment operators. In order to obtain this certification they have to sit a small exam with a high school diploma as a prerequisite.

After conducting numerous transcript request, we found out that only 2 out of 22 had graduated from high school. They are all black males ranging in age from 23 to approx 52. I was pretty shocked and saddened because these are the men of my community. Most of them left high school after the 3rd year or so to pursue trade training (plumbing, carpentry etc.) because there was no chance of them going on to higher education.

I understand this partly because many jobs require that you have "experience" before they will hire you. This is the experience they left high school to gain, and in their eyes got ahead of the game which I must admit has definitely paid off up until lately when the cost of living and job requirements surged.

I think it&#39;s a sad cycle actually. Those who feel that higher education is out of their reach often settle for less and many times they are not supported enough to begin with. The importance of education today has surpassed it&#39;s importance years ago. As Nappy Girl stated, I think worldwide we have reached a crisis level but the sad part is that I think the graduation rates can be attributed to a lack of funding, a lack of motivation and a lack of proper information.

80% of the time, black men are failing out of high school because their communities failed them.

[honeybunch2k5]

Not to be harsh, but I wonder what&#39;s the percentage of those unemployed drop-outs that aspired to be a rapper or basketball/football player? The sad reality of it is, as Chris Rock put it, that a black man can get more respect from going to jail than going to college. When these young males are growing up, who tends to get the most love and respect? It isn&#39;t the black men who go to college and work legitimate jobs that may not have the fast money and flashy rides, it&#39;s usually the pimps, hustlers, and drug dealers with the fast money, cars, jewelry, and women and that&#39;s what these young men emulate. The problem with that fast money and lifestyle is that it can end even faster than when it began. There&#39;s no long-term career in that type of lifestyle and no retirement plan either because none of them either live long enough or are out on the street long enough to make it that far, but they&#39;re there just long enough to entice others to try it and think they can beat the system.

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. The bar is set higher for black women than it is for men overall. And as long as it&#39;s the status quo, it&#39;s likely that the unemployment level is going to maintain or escalate, along with the number of black men in jail and prison or the grave, which cuts down on the number of black marriages eventually.
[/b]
IA. Count my brother in as another black boy with hoop dreams or hopes to become a rapper even at the tender age of 8. He sees and emulates TI and 50 cent while already he is learning from society and from Mom that education isn&#39;t really that important (even though Mom&#39;s standards were and still are much higher for me).

[thunderstorm]

i think another factor in black male unemployment rates are those men (diploma or not) who have spent the majority of their adulthood loafing and mooching and who in their 40s want to buckle down and find work, but who can&#39;t because they have no work history. it&#39;s like they&#39;ve dug that hole for themselves that they can&#39;t get out of no matter how hard they start trying.

and when you&#39;ve been unemployed for so long, you lack a work ethic. you are more likely not to keep a job because you can&#39;t handle someone delegating to you without taking it personally. you lack discipline to get up and to work on time. you lack the drive to maintain employment because you&#39;ve spent the better part of your adulthood living for the moment.

my bil has a hs diploma and is now tired of mooching off of relatives and girlfriends and sleeping on various friends/family sofas and spare beds. he desires a steady income now, but is not marketable in that there are few things that he can do well (and of the things he can do well, it&#39;s more seasonal work that wouldn&#39;t sustain him through a whole year), and he has no employment history (in his 41 years, he&#39;s probably worked a total of 3 years. and those were day jobs like painting, cleaning up debris from construction sites, and unspecialized construction work, etc.).

[EvesDilemma]

Let&#39;s be honest, there is a critical double standard here when it comes to what&#39;s being taught to young black males and females. You know why many more black women are going to college than black men? It has a lot to do with education being seen as more viable for women to get respect and love while black men are generally pushed towards athletics, rapping, or hustling to get that same level of love and respect. [/b]

I&#39;m inclined to agree with this.

I have to fight this even within my own family with my mother. I&#39;m always encouraging my son (even now at age 6) to focus on school so that he can go to college one day (he keeps telling me he wants a car that fits 24-I told him one doesn&#39;t exist, but if he goes to school, perhaps he can create one!). My mother is often telling him when he tells her how hard school is (he&#39;s in kindergarten for goodness sake, but he knows it will get her sympathy if he whines about school), she says "That&#39;s okay baby, cause you can play basketball and take care of grandma when you are done." There are times I want to hem my mother up!

Not everyone can be the next Michael Jordan, and truthfully, why would they want to be? My son is incredibly bright, so until he pushes me back (figuratively, cause if he does it literally there&#39;ll be a funeral to attend and a court case to deal with), I&#39;m going to keep pushing and encouraging him in that direction.

[Peaches]

:lol: :lol: @ Thunderstorm&#39;s bil. I know some people like that. What these folks are going to do when they get in their retirement years is beyond me. The sad thing is that some desperate pitiful woman will probably marry them and take care of them.

[GalaxyGirl2012]

the crisis is going to be for all americans within the next 10-20 years because we as a country can&#39;t figure out what type of services we want to provide.

the type jobs that just high school grads and dropouts can get (like factory and low skilled labor work) will very soon be moving all of the way out of the US and into countries with cheaper labor.

on the other hand if we want to have high skilled jobs, our educational system (for the most part ) doesn&#39;t mesh with that. people in other countries with more effective educational systems can learn the same things as an undergrad that most americans would have to get a master&#39;s to learn. not to mention other countries do it for alot cheaper.

so we in the black community need to learn how to adapt and realise that majority of people arent billionaires and cant be jordan&#39;s and jeter&#39;s. having an education should no longer be seen as someone to be like yt. we already knoe that a high school diploma is really no longer enough, we need to start pushing our kids to strive for bachelor&#39;s masters and phd&#39;s.

eta: case in point, i work in the translation industry and we have a position that&#39;s been open for several months. it&#39;s software internalisation engineer. it&#39;s very detailed and we&#39;re looking for someone who&#39;s done it before so that they can teach us more abaout it. so far we&#39;ve had 6 candidates, only 1 american who was totally unqualified. the one person who would be perfect for it is an egyptian national and needs a visa. unfortunately we (the us) only gives out a certain number of working visas evey year and the quota has already been reached for this year. so it looks like we&#39;ll either have to wait until next year to fill the position with the right person or hire an american who has no idea what s/he&#39;s doing.

[cmsheart]

having an education should no longer be seen as someone to be like yt. we already knoe that a high school diploma is really no longer enough, we need to start pushing our kids to strive for bachelor&#39;s masters and phd&#39;s.
[/b]
co-sign

[afroluvangel]

I know plenty of black men who have the potential, but just fell off somewhere along the road. However, many black men have plans for their future, no matter how they go towards making it happen. You&#39;d be surprised that alot of these guys are extremely smart in math, alot get degrees in engineering, business, finance, etc., as something "fall back on" if their current hustle doesn&#39;t work. Usually starting in high school, young black men are planning to either have their own businesses, to produce music, or to produce movies. For example, Damon Dash sold drugs to put himself through college, an ivy league school at that, and, then built his empire from there on. Paul Wall has some type of license to work alongside a dentist :huh: but decided to start a franchise where he specializes in making custom grillz. Who knows how long it took Damon Dash to actually finish college? We&#39;ll never know how long it took Paul Wall to get recognized like "Jacob the Jeweler" for making specialized grillz for celebrities and everyday people. I think these guys are smart, and found their niche.

However, I do agree that some black men I know personally just turn down job offers almost everyday. This particular guy I know has a license to drive "big rigs", which is like big money. The only thing he has ever committed to was selling drugs. Even though he says he made more money selling drugs than a reg 9-5, he knows he can&#39;t continue that lifestyle and settle down with kids one day. These guys may be still chasing dreams at age 35-40, while many black women are becoming seasoned professionals in their careers.

[winter1820]

hmm...
i confused by something right noww

i just came back from being wined and dined(birthday) :P by a man that is, according to statistics, is supposed to be in jail by now for committing a crime, which he was forced to do b/c of his unfortunate circumstances and less than desirable upbringing. but instead he&#39;s in college and owning his own home and cars and has a job he enjoys going to and gets respect from everyone for his hard work and success. and to add he&#39;s thinking about leaving his perfect job and being his own boss in five years cuz he feels like it.
but, he hangs around nba players, ex cons, other software engineers, and his best friend&#39;s a drug dealer by the way.

so why isn&#39;t he a product of his enviroment? :dunno: :whistling:
i thought if you grow up w/ out a daddy and influenced by the nieghborhood drugdealer your not supposed to amount to anything and become another statistic :unsure:

[CatSuga]

but, he hangs around nba players, ex cons, other software engineers, and his best friend&#39;s a drug dealer by the way.
[/b]

YES! The perfect man.
One who keeps company with whores, criminals, & losers. :lol:

[winter1820]

the crisis is going to be for all americans within the next 10-20 years because we as a country can&#39;t figure out what type of services we want to provide.

the type jobs that just high school grads and dropouts can get (like factory and low skilled labor work) will very soon be moving all of the way out of the US and into countries with cheaper labor.

on the other hand if we want to have high skilled jobs, our educational system (for the most part ) doesn&#39;t mesh with that. people in other countries with more effective educational systems can learn the same things as an undergrad that most americans would have to get a master&#39;s to learn. not to mention other countries do it for alot cheaper.

so we in the black community need to learn how to adapt and realise that majority of people arent billionaires and cant be jordan&#39;s and jeter&#39;s. having an education should no longer be seen as someone to be like yt. we already knoe that a high school diploma is really no longer enough, we need to start pushing our kids to strive for bachelor&#39;s masters and phd&#39;s.

eta: case in point, i work in the translation industry and we have a position that&#39;s been open for several months. it&#39;s software internalisation engineer. it&#39;s very detailed and we&#39;re looking for someone who&#39;s done it before so that they can teach us more abaout it. so far we&#39;ve had 6 candidates, only 1 american who was totally unqualified. the one person who would be perfect for it is an egyptian national and needs a visa. unfortunately we (the us) only gives out a certain number of working visas evey year and the quota has already been reached for this year. so it looks like we&#39;ll either have to wait until next year to fill the position with the right person or hire an american who has no idea what s/he&#39;s doing.
[/b]


and to add, what a lot of employers emphasize lately, is to retiring of a lot of their work force in the next decade and the many positions that need to be filled won&#39;t be. (baby boomers retiring and not enough ppl graduating w/ bach. master degrees). while at the same time the num of black inmates are rising. so that means employers are willing to hire young talent; they are just no where to be found

[EvesDilemma]

I know plenty of black men who have the potential, but just fell off somewhere along the road. However, many black men have plans for their future, no matter how they go towards making it happen. You&#39;d be surprised that alot of these guys are extremely smart in math, alot get degrees in engineering, business, finance, etc., as something "fall back on" if their current hustle doesn&#39;t work. Usually starting in high school, young black men are planning to either have their own businesses, to produce music, or to produce movies. For example, Damon Dash sold drugs to put himself through college, an ivy league school at that, and, then built his empire from there on. Paul Wall has some type of license to work alongside a dentist :huh: but decided to start a franchise where he specializes in making custom grillz. Who knows how long it took Damon Dash to actually finish college? We&#39;ll never know how long it took Paul Wall to get recognized like "Jacob the Jeweler" for making specialized grillz for celebrities and everyday people. I think these guys are smart, and found their niche.

[/b]

Except this to me isn&#39;t a success story-Damon Dash helped individuals victimize themselves to achieve his dreams by selling drugs-hardly a success story if you ask me-more like a cancer in the community. Unfortunately, his hasn&#39;t caught up with him, but it will, so in my mind, he is NOT success story.

Paul Wall and the custom grillz-helping individuals buy more and more into the materialistic culture instead of truly uplifting the community? Also not a success story to me.

I&#39;m picky that way, I&#39;ll admit it.

[winter1820]

YES! The perfect man.
One who keeps company with whores, criminals, & losers. :lol:
[/b]

dang you got me good wt that one. :lol:
i ain&#39;t say i was gonna marry him,...
but the point i was makin was that i don&#39;t see being a product of one&#39;s enviroment or the company they keep as a reason why black men can&#39;t get a education and their dream job.
it&#39;s not a reason more like an excuse. i wouldn&#39;t say i was fostered in the perfect conditions to grow up in and be raised w/ love all the time and hang around people that drilled the importance of education all the time, but i got up off my *** and did what i had to do

but one might say: HEY, we&#39;re not talkin about a couple of people that are just lazy and don&#39;t wanna do nothin w/ their lives, we&#39;re talkin about a trend that&#39;s growing at an alarming rate, even though people know world wide, that the more education you have the more you succeed. so why isn&#39;t that shown in the statistics, and why isn&#39;t the num of black men with degrees rising instead of falling. there must be more deeprooted reason why this is so.
:dunno:

but, i do know self responsibility and civil responsiblity should be taken into account.
yeah, you can be down with your boys, but there are time you gotta be your own man. and to me that shows a real man



:offtop:
i don&#39;t know... but whoever is right above me on the second floor is beatin it up :ninj:
:huh: :blush:

it sound like the floor gonna cave in

[Machiavelli]

So, in your opinion, how much responsibility do black men bear for their own situation? Is it all society&#39;s doing?

And honestly, I don&#39;t know where in the world the majority of women do you mean to tell me that you seriously think that a black woman with a choice of a serious relationship with either a street hustler or a lawyer would leap at the street hustler? :huh: I think what I see is that in many communities plagued by poverty and crime, women there don&#39;t have the choice between Mr. 9 to 5 and the drug dealer. As the stats Catsuga posted show, most men in those communities don&#39;t have jobs, they don&#39;t go to college. So there aren&#39;t any well-educated black male accountants, businessmen, lawyers and engineers rolling through these communities trying to marry but getting snubbed (maybe trying to pay for sex or hit it and then leave it, but marry or have a serious relationship? nah. I&#39;ve found that educated black men are the most elitist bunch known to man). Rather, a more realistic portrayal of the options the women there have in these communities is: broke, likely criminal, uneducated man without a dime to his names vs. broke, likely criminal, uneducated man making some money selling drugs, rapping in clubs, or engaged some other low-level but at least income-generating activity. Hence, why many women in those communities choose the latter. Because if you&#39;re going to have a criminal-minded, parasitic punk either way, then you might as well have one who can help you keep a roof over your head. So I don&#39;t see this great, overwhelming love of uneducated men that you do. I see women who don&#39;t have viable options because the men in their communities are SORRY as all get out.

Which brings us back to the issue of serious unemployment among black men. What role do you, as a black man, see black men playing in their own plight? I ask because in discussions like these, I&#39;ve found it really hard to pin black men down on what decision-making power and influence over their own situations, if any, they think they have. So I try to get opinions from black men on this question when I can.
[/b]


The role I see in black men playing in our own plight is equivalent to a track relay. In that I mean this: While a lot of the issues we face today may/may not stem from what happened in slavery, racism, and its products, that was only the first leg of the race and then the baton was passed, which is where we picked up. We took the baton which is akin to perpetuating the problems in our society, and it seems as if we&#39;re (collectively) are making it a point to keep passing the baton on to the next generation.

One of the reasons why a lot of those men don&#39;t go to college and develop careers is that to them, it&#39;s not necessary to get what they want, which stops at money, respect, and women. I can say with almost certainty that EVERY black man in America (that has gone to a predominantly black school or lived in the ghetto) is confronted with a major decision around their teenage years regarding this issue. Some go to college and develop careers in whatever arena they go into in spite of not feeling the love from women and lack of "respect" from most of their community and....(separate topic. lol) I can speak firsthand of this connundrum, because I was tempted to go the other way. I didn&#39;t, but there was a lot of resentment to overcome in the process.

While the rest choose to live the lifestyle that gets them the girls, fast money, rides, and so-called respect of the community by living/dying on the block or in jail. It&#39;s bad in my generation, but it seems to get worse with each passing generation.

In spite of all the external and internal pressures, there is still a choice to be made and there&#39;s no way around that. Screw that excuse "I&#39;m a product of my environment" that so many use conveniently to avoid responsibility when the fallout occurs (and it always does).