PDA

View Full Version : Lumbee Indians



tashaboo74
08-02-2007, 08:18 PM
While my sister, new-found cousin and I were researching (mostly them, actually) my mom's side of the family, we had been trying to figure out my great-grandfather's (Judge Swan's) Native American roots. We heard for years that he was full-blooded Choctaw, but the censuses listed him as mulatto. This was confirmed when we found a census with his father on it, and the father was listed as black (or whatever they called him) while Judge and his brother was listed as mulatto. Therefore, we figured that his mother may have been the one with Indian blood. Over time, we found out that her name was Lum, and another new-found cousin said he heard that Lum was an Indian word for something. I did a search and found out about the Lumbee Indians. Here are two links:

http://linux.library.appstate.edu/lumbee/

http://www.native-languages.org/lumbee.htm

Good info from the first link:

People: The Lumbee Indians have been denied federal status as an Indian nation because of their high degree of mixed blood--their ancestors include Cheraw, Tuscarora, and Croatan Indians, many African-Americans (the tribe was known for sheltering runaway slaves), and, in all likelihood, members of the original "lost" colony of Roanoke. The Lumbees are recognized by the state of North Carolina if not the federal government, and they are 40,000 people strong, making them one of the largest Native American tribes remaining in the eastern US.

History: The Croatan (or Croatoan) Indians first made history when the Roanoke colony left their name carved on a tree. This supposedly mysterious carving has inspired many science-fiction books and conspiracy theories since that time, but in fact it was the name of an island belonging to some friendly Indians, and the colonists probably simply moved in with them when their food supplies ran low. Lumbee historian Adolph Dial made the case that the Croatans and their English guests were among the ancestors of today's Lumbee Indians, who resurfaced some 50 years later speaking English, practicing Christianity, and sporting the same last names many of the colonists had brought with them. Though they are lesser-known to history texts, there were also many Iroquoian and Siouan tribes inhabiting the Carolinas; however, as happened in most of the east coast, the tribes merged together after heavy population losses, and none of their languages have survived. Their descendants, however, still thrive. The Lumbee today are by all accounts a mixed-race people, so mixed-race that they were not even sent to Oklahoma with the other Native Americans of North Carolina in the 1820's and 30's. North Carolina was not the most pleasant place to live in the 19th century if your skin was dark, though, and increasing violence against Lumbees and free mulattos set the stage for the Lumbee folk hero Henry Berry Lowrie in the 1860's. Called the "Indian Robin Hood" by some, Lowrie, enraged by the assault and murder of his family, spent the next decade wreaking vigilante justice on those who harassed Indians and stealing supplies to give to the disenfranchised. He was never caught, and his legend--brave, proud, dangerous when provoked, and above all else free--remains a powerful tribal metaphor.

olympia621
08-02-2007, 08:50 PM
Do some more research on the Lost Colony. I heard some of them ended up with blue eyes. As far as the Lumbees go, see if UNC Pembroke can help. I think it's in Lumberton.
Any way, I from coastal SC, just South of the Border of NC ;) , and all of the "Indians" I see say they are white. We see them darker than me but they are still white. I'm not trying to start an ethnicity, just b/c you look black post. This is just my personal experience.

thunderstorm
08-03-2007, 05:41 AM
i'm in nc; there are lots of lumbees scattered about. i went to school with a couple of guys who were lumbees. biggest, bushiest, waviest, curliest fros you've ever seen on caramel skin. :blush:

http://www.lumbeetribe.com/lumbee/index.htm

Peaches
08-03-2007, 07:11 AM
I think that southerncurl (http://www.nappturality.com/forum/index.php?showuser=6288) is from the area where most of the Lumbee Indians live.. Lumberton, NC. I believe that she still lives in Raleigh. If you PM or email her she may be able to tell you more information about them.

gertgert07
08-03-2007, 11:29 AM
Hi,
Just about all my friends are Lumbee Indians! They mostly reside in Pembroke, NC but are scattered around.
The reason no one hears about them is because they are still fighting to be recognized by the government. And yes, lots of them do look white, with blue, grey, green eyes, but if you look closely at their bone structure you can tell they're not. Then there are some who look like Pocahontas' cousins! Kind of like us and our various features.

You can find out a lot about them at UNCP like olympia612 said, which is in Pembroke also.

MariposaMorena08
08-05-2007, 03:53 PM
What you may want to consider is that the Lumbee are not just one people historically; they are an amalgamation of various tribes. They were labelled by various names, at one time they were called the Cherokee Indians of Robeson County. That caused some bad blood with the Cherokee (who never resided in Eastern NC except for a few stragglers). The Lumbee were not classified as "Lumbee Indians" until recently - the last 50 years (?).

They are called Lumbee because the various tribes gathered together and forged an Indian identity on the Lumber river. I'm thinking that your great-grandmother (?) may have been Indian but none of them would have said that they were Lumbee because they didn't exist as such at that time. Same thing with the Pee Dee Indians, who are related to the Lumbee but live in SC. Lum must refer to something else...where was your Indian ancestor from?

tashaboo74
08-05-2007, 08:18 PM
What you may want to consider is that the Lumbee are not just one people historically; they are an amalgamation of various tribes. They were labelled by various names, at one time they were called the Cherokee Indians of Robeson County. That caused some bad blood with the Cherokee (who never resided in Eastern NC except for a few stragglers). The Lumbee were not classified as "Lumbee Indians" until recently - the last 50 years (?).

They are called Lumbee because the various tribes gathered together and forged an Indian identity on the Lumber river. I'm thinking that your great-grandmother (?) may have been Indian but none of them would have said that they were Lumbee because they didn't exist as such at that time. Same thing with the Pee Dee Indians, who are related to the Lumbee but live in SC. Lum must refer to something else...where was your Indian ancestor from?
[/b]

We're still not sure where she was from. It took forever just to find her name. :(

I knew about the tribal mixture, but I figure that even with that information, it would help narrow down what tribe she could have belonged to.

southerncurl
08-05-2007, 08:53 PM
i'm lumbee...my people live in lumberton NC.

also..I had to prove my lineage and fill out a form to be considered LUMBEE...
my GREAT grandfather married a very darkskinned indian woman, his family and friends gave him such a hard time about marrying a dark woman that he moved to another town..wilson NC, where i grew up.

my grandfather married a black woman and he ALSO got flack for that, thats just they way it is.

lumberton is a very rural area, and thier attitudes about color are very outdated, I wish we could get recognition to help bring them into the 21st century, It's a damn shame that we have to ASK the government to recognize us...beg them really.

some of them have very nappy hair, some have straight hair, some look as white as white can be and some, like my aunts and great grandmother are very dark..there are blue eyes, green eyes like my mom and brother...any color combo you can imagine!

MariposaMorena08
09-02-2007, 06:09 PM
We're still not sure where she was from. It took forever just to find her name. :(

I knew about the tribal mixture, but I figure that even with that information, it would help narrow down what tribe she could have belonged to.
[/b]

I'm in the same boat as you on this one. My ancestor, Mariah Chavis, was actually listed as Black although my grandmother says that she was actually Native Am. or of Native descent. The Chavis name is popular in many Southeastern Indian tribes so I am out of luck.

There are some people that share ancestry with the Lumbee that say that they are actually Tuscarora. The Pee Dee in South Carolina share common lineage too, as far as I know. It's all confusing! My ancestor "showed up" in Chesterfield, SC in the 1880's so I have no clue where she came from. I am also lucky just to have her name. No one that I know of can actually help me with this since I don't know whether Chavis is her maiden name or married name.

I have seen the application to apply for membership in the Lumbee tribe and I believe that one of the stipulations is that you can prove some type of consistent link/interaction with your ancestors and the Lumbee people. That instantly rules me out. My family even looks Lumbee but I don't think that I would ever be able to apply. My cousin, by marriage, has actually enrolled in one of the Pee Dee tribes in South Carolina but their rules for membership are less stringent. I really wish I could help you here...

Southerncurl, what do folks say about your hair???? One of the parents of a former student of mine is Lumbee and she would always talk about how prejudiced some of them are; she married a Black man. Didn't you have to actually go to the tribal office in order to complete the enrollment process? I wonder what they would think if I showed up with my app. while wearing my nappy hair out? *LOL*

amberdcox
12-18-2007, 12:29 PM
I knew several Lumbees when I was in school and they are very proud of their heritage. Many of them have the last names Oxendine, Locklear, Lowery/Lowry, and I forget the other one. Lumberton, Polk County, Fayetteville, Whiteville, and eastern NC is where the most of them that I knew were from. I hope you find them!

Lady-N-Black
12-18-2007, 01:02 PM
my grandmother was indian, I am thinking Lumbee though everyone says cherokee...does anyone know if Blanks is a lumbee name? She lived in East Arcadia (Near Reigelwood, NC). Anyone familiar with the area?

universoul*truth
12-20-2007, 10:07 AM
wow so funny seeing this post. i lived in st pauls nc for a few months (pure torture) and we did a lot of shopping in lumberton. i always noticed people who i thought were biracial and it was my ex who told me they were lumbee. he told me that lumbee did not like to socialize with blacks. i found that hard to believe because it seemed that the younger female generation have a thing for the brothas.

one thing that i remember was the height. it seemed that the women were tall and thick.

amberdcox
12-20-2007, 11:31 AM
^^ I work with a girl that's a lumbee. Shes about 6 foot and she coaches b-ball. And her last name is Locklear

tashaboo74
12-20-2007, 06:47 PM
i'm lumbee...my people live in lumberton NC.

also..I had to prove my lineage and fill out a form to be considered LUMBEE...
my GREAT grandfather married a very darkskinned indian woman, his family and friends gave him such a hard time about marrying a dark woman that he moved to another town..wilson NC, where i grew up.

my grandfather married a black woman and he ALSO got flack for that, thats just they way it is.

lumberton is a very rural area, and thier attitudes about color are very outdated, I wish we could get recognition to help bring them into the 21st century, It's a damn shame that we have to ASK the government to recognize us...beg them really.

some of them have very nappy hair, some have straight hair, some look as white as white can be and some, like my aunts and great grandmother are very dark..there are blue eyes, green eyes like my mom and brother...any color combo you can imagine!
[/b]

Are the Lumbee comfortable with anyone asking them about genealogical research? I waswodering howthey would feel aouta black person asking them. I don't want them to think I'm trying to identify as Lumbee or something - it's strictly for research purposes. Are any of them participating in a DNA project?

life4evr
01-17-2008, 06:00 PM
Are the Lumbee comfortable with anyone asking them about genealogical research? I waswodering howthey would feel aouta black person asking them. I don't want them to think I'm trying to identify as Lumbee or something - it's strictly for research purposes. Are any of them participating in a DNA project?
[/b]


I think it depends on the person who you are asking. I have a couple of friends who are Lumbee. I ask one of them stuff all the time. Like everyone else said it is mostly southeasternnc. I am from Raeford and there is a large Lumbee population here.

Serbbral
02-21-2008, 12:22 PM
I know I'm late, but I live about an hour and a half from Lumberton, NC (right outside of a town named Florence, S.C.). Of course it was named that after the Lumbee Indians. Lumberton and UNC-Pembroke is just full of Indian history (Lumbee, that is). I went to grad school with a few. Many of them look like light skinned black people with light eyes and wavy hair (which tells me there is some African ancestry in there) and sometimes I cannot tell, until they open their mouths. To me, they have this very distinct southern drawl, similiar to some southern white people. The Lumbees are going through something right now, because the other Indian tribes are refusing to identify them in the Indian Federation (hope the title is correct), because they do not have their own language, unlike the other Indian tribes (at least that is the explanation that I heard). This is just a good way to keep them from receiving some of the Indian Federal funds. Oops! I see you already have much of the info that I posted. It's nice to know that I was not far off.

MariposaMorena08
04-07-2008, 03:39 AM
I went to an international festival where there was a Native American booth that was manned mostly by Lums. One young girl was fairly nice, the 2 or three older women took one look at me and started acting like I wasn't there. One of those women looked like she could be my mother! They didn't know if I was a Lum or not. I think that because of their issues with being recognized as "real Indians", they disassociate themselves from Black folks. They can act deep if they want, but there is definitely some African ancestry there.

I believe that the younger generations of Lums are more willing to deal with Black folks than the older ones. As far as I know, the Lums don't have a language. I go to powwows and many of the Indian folks I know laugh when they hear that and information about Lumbee history. The Tuscaroras in NC say that Lumbee history is actually their own history. A Tuscarora friend of mine likes to mess with a Lumbee artist that shows up to powwows about their history. It's all in good fun for them, but it is very sensitive to many others. (Totally off-topic, but I felt like sharing! *LOL*)

coalblacklocs
05-19-2008, 08:51 PM
I"m trying to figure out where my Great Grandfather came from. My maiden last name is Hunt, and my great grandfather's name was George Hunt, possible George Washington Hunt.

I'm told that my great grandfather was a full native. I'm told he looked like he was black, but he had long straight hair. Many people in my family have red hair, and I think I may have traced it to him.

He popped up out of nowhere in Northampton County, NC, which is right on the border of VA and NC. He shows up in a 1880 census with his first wife (my great grandmother) "India" (wish I could dig up her maiden last name) their first child Sue, and some body about 10 years older than them by the name of Pollard. Later my grandfather was born. And then later, India died, and George remarried to have several more children.

I'm told that George was Cherokee. But it just don't make sense to me for him to have popped out of nowhere, and we are not in western NC, we are rather east.

I have come to suspect possible Lumbee because of two things:
1) I learn that the surname Hunt often occurs around Lumberton in the Lumbee area.
2) My sister has visited Lumberton. I believe she told me that she was often assumed to be native of the area based on her appearance, and especially so after being asked her maiden last name.

So I am very interested in the Lumbee area, and I have suspicions that they may be our origins.

Does red hair often occur in that area among the people of this tribe?

lambchops
05-21-2008, 01:34 PM
I remember my mom telling me about this lady who was i suppose Lumbee but she loved some blk men. Anyways, she said Lumbees were not Indian (not full anyway). She said that these ppl are blk and white mixed mostly, their fathers (white men) put them on some land and that the Indians (whatever was around, not many) came along and mixed with them. So usually when you think of Indian you think of tanned ppl with a lot of land roaming free. Well thats what you get when your daddy is the massa and he mixes with a slave and he gives his kids (tanned person) some land. So you do appear as an Indian would. Anyways this always made sense to me. Lumbees are just mixed ppl trying to escape their heritage. I'm from NC and know all about this "tribe."

black_berry
06-03-2008, 12:11 AM
I remember my mom telling me about this lady who was i suppose Lumbee but she loved some blk men. Anyways, she said Lumbees were not Indian (not full anyway). She said that these ppl are blk and white mixed mostly, their fathers (white men) put them on some land and that the Indians (whatever was around, not many) came along and mixed with them. So usually when you think of Indian you think of tanned ppl with a lot of land roaming free. Well thats what you get when your daddy is the massa and he mixes with a slave and he gives his kids (tanned person) some land. So you do appear as an Indian would. Anyways this always made sense to me. Lumbees are just mixed ppl trying to escape their heritage. I'm from NC and know all about this "tribe."
[/b]


I'm part Lumbee... I was shocked to open up this section of the forum for the first time and see this as a topic.

sunnysmile751
06-04-2008, 01:15 AM
Yeah that's pretty harsh.

MariposaMorena08
07-11-2008, 03:07 PM
@Coalblacklocks, there actually is a tribe in Northampton, VA. They are the Cheroenhaka (or Nottoway). Many of these folks were listed as Black, and some look "Black". I believe that they organized recently. I remember having read an article about them about a year or so ago. I met the chief at a powwow in NC. He seems to be really nice, and he's a KAPPA! *LOL* Nice people. They have a website but I don't know the address. You will get to it if you google the tribal name.

Hunt is a very popular Lumbee name. From my (tiny bit of) research, many of the originators of the Lumbee people migrated down from Virginia. That is why I am having trouble tracing my people. There are Chavises in almost every tribe from Northampton/Surry down to the Chickasaw tribe! I wish you the best!

lilchocolatema
03-09-2009, 01:36 AM
Very interesting! My great aunt researched our family genealogy and traced us to the Lumbee tribe. I don't know anything other than that. lol

Chocolate CurlyGirl
03-09-2009, 05:41 PM
Question, weren't many blacks given the last names of their slave owners? How are people to know what their original last name was? My great grandmother definitely looked like she has some Indian ancestry but her last name was a european last name.

starchild
03-10-2009, 11:37 PM
I remember my mom telling me about this lady who was i suppose Lumbee but she loved some blk men. Anyways, she said Lumbees were not Indian (not full anyway). She said that these ppl are blk and white mixed mostly, their fathers (white men) put them on some land and that the Indians (whatever was around, not many) came along and mixed with them. So usually when you think of Indian you think of tanned ppl with a lot of land roaming free. Well thats what you get when your daddy is the massa and he mixes with a slave and he gives his kids (tanned person) some land. So you do appear as an Indian would. Anyways this always made sense to me. Lumbees are just mixed ppl trying to escape their heritage. I'm from NC and know all about this "tribe."
[/b]


I have heard the same thing from a white person from NC she told me that they are not well liked. I think it sad actually. DNA test will reveal any NA, just go that route. I did, I truly though I was a 25% Indian based on family oral traditions. pictures, and facial features. I was WRONG! not 1 drop. It was all European. When I found out my African Lineage, it explained a lot. My maternal African linage have small features, light skin, wavy hair, long narrow noses, reddish brown skin. When you mixed that with White, it comes out to "Indian"

If you can get some DNA proof then that will help you to narrow which side to look for. Good luck!

starchild
03-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Question, weren't many blacks given the last names of their slave owners? How are people to know what their original last name was? My great grandmother definitely looked like she has some Indian ancestry but her last name was a european last name.
[/b]
Because most "Indians" are of heavy European descent They have mixed with the native populations since they have settles. Many developed their ways, names and religion. There were black people in the Indian nations who were slaves and when Andrew Jackson removed them from the land, they took their slaves with them too. That is why you have the "black: semioles, cherokee etc. Dr. Kittles did a DNA study and to "some" people's surpise the percentage of Indian heritage is under 10%, that is like a drop. The vast majority showed European ancestry. link here.http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/2005/06/ scroll down to Freedman use of DNA.

The "real" Indians can be found out west. We have deep Native history in TN but most of those tribes died out or were moved before the expansion into the Western part of the state. If they moved the natives in 1828, that's a long way back to be reaching for great grandparents. Mine were born in the late 1890's. That is about 2.5 generations, provided they had children in late teens early 20's.

Chocolate CurlyGirl
03-11-2009, 12:00 PM
I have heard the same thing from a white person from NC she told me that they are not well liked. I think it sad actually. DNA test will reveal any NA, just go that route. I did, I truly though I was a 25% Indian based on family oral traditions. pictures, and facial features. I was WRONG! not 1 drop. It was all European. When I found out my African Lineage, it explained a lot. My maternal African linage have small features, light skin, wavy hair, long narrow noses, reddish brown skin. When you mixed that with White, it comes out to "Indian"

If you can get some DNA proof then that will help you to narrow which side to look for. Good luck!
[/b]

You have me wanting to get a DNA test. I know that African Americans with Indian in their family is not common, even though many people say they do. I was watching some show that mentioned the information you stated about the less than 10%. But, I would like to know more about my ancestry. I just hope it doesn't cost too much to find out. :unsure:

Fedyfro
03-15-2009, 12:50 PM
I used Ancestry by DNA for an admixture test. Unfortunately, they are now bankrupt. I am not sure who else tests for admixture. I ended up with 12% NA but I do not know the origin.

Some guy named Plecker who worked for the census in VA back in the day waged a campaign of eliminating NA from the census and changing their status to mulatto or black so there are some people who will have a really hard time tracing any eastern NA lineage.

DeWhit007
03-15-2009, 10:51 PM
As I was reading this thread I started looking at pictures and doing a little off-hand research. I kept thinking to myself, "Wow...these people all look like my people (Syphax - a name I carry with GREAT pride)...but we're from Virginia. Hmm."
Then to find out that there were many groups that settled in VA too...this is getting exciting! I wonder...
*goes to make some calls*