Secession, huh? How would that work exactly?

**LBellatrix** · 11-12-2012, 11:10 PM

So folks are talking about seceding from the US now...and while I'm (somewhat) sure nothing will come of this I started to do a little digging to see what has to happen for a state to secede. I avoided doing a Google search on "how to secede" because I didn't want to deal with the craziness...

Article 4, Section 3, Clause 1 of the US Constitution states: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

Assuming the state legislature(s) agreed on secession, I don't see Congress allowing it. If, then, the state(s) decided to secede anyway, then the federal government would have to get involved and boom! Civil War II.

Indulge me in a little fantasy roleplay (or not...I'm sure there are lawyers and lawyer-types here who could provide more facts): What would you do if your state decided to secede? Part of me admits to being a little fascinated by the idea, but then again the only way I'd live in a seceding state is if that state was going to model itself after Western Europe, with universal health care, education, etc. (and probably the taxes to go with it).

**chachadiva** · 11-12-2012, 11:31 PM

We all know these folks are blowing smoke. What I find hilarious is that they are mad about Obama, Obamacare, taxes, etc. Okay, try being a sovereign nation. In theory, the seceding state would have to fund a military to protect it's borders, set up it's own schools, libraries, police and government, fund any social programs, etc. Where is all of that money going to come from? Obamacare would look cheap in comparison.

I can't think of any city or state in the nation that is looking to give up all federal government support. So yeah...

**Akomas_Angel** · 11-13-2012, 03:52 AM

They are stupid. Point.blank.period. The furthest they got with their thought process was throwing their signatures on the dotted line. I'm actually kind of sad that it is not going to work out for them, though. That'd do wonders for our deficit and free up lots of resources for other Americans. #forward #dealwithit

**Napia Mia** · 11-13-2012, 04:29 AM

When I was a kid, I was in a Safeway grocery store, standing in line waiting to pay for something. This white man turned around, looked down at me and said, "Why don't you go back to Africa." At first I just smiled because I really didn't quite hear what he said. But then my mind caught wind of exactly what he did say and I was speechless. I might have been about 10 years old at the time.

Fast forward. We've been taught that NO ONE here is indigenous to America except the Native American Indian. So how about all the white folks who think they need to secede go find a freaking island somewhere and start their own country. They could call their country, the United White People's Republic. (Oops so that mean Michael Steele and all the other token republicans of color wouldn't get to go.)
Anyhoo, they can take the American constitution, interpret and enforce it ANYWAY they like. I honestly shudder to think what their country would look like. No religious freedom. No abortion. No women's rights. No health care. No middle class, no poor people. How ironic about the no poor people since so many people in the republic party are on the lower economic end of the income scale. Ah yes, no taxes so they couldn't raise revenue. No banking regulations. No FEMA. No social programs or entitlement programs. A huge military, although I have no idea how they'd fund this since they can't tax anybody. No big budgets for education. No gay people.

I could go on and on and on, but y'all get the picture. Just how does all of this work?

**GalaxyGirl2012** · 11-13-2012, 04:51 AM

so i guess TX and LA forgot all the federal funds and help they received after Katrina? and i'd kick arkansas out just on GP. what exactly have they contributed to the US since its inception besides Bill Clinton?

What would you do if your state decided to secede? Part of me admits to being a little fascinated by the idea, but then again the only way I'd live in a seceding state is if that state was going to model itself after Western Europe, with universal health care, education, etc. (and probably the taxes to go with it).

most people consider cali to be its own little country anyway

**chachadiva** · 11-13-2012, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by Napia Mia

(Oops so that mean Michael Steele and all the other token republicans of color wouldn't get to go.)
Anyhoo, they can take the American constitution, interpret and enforce it ANYWAY they like. I honestly shudder to think what their country would look like. No religious freedom. No abortion. No women's rights. No health care. No middle class, no poor people. How ironic about the no poor people since so many people in the republic party are on the lower economic end of the income scale. Ah yes, no taxes so they couldn't raise revenue. No banking regulations. No FEMA. No social programs or entitlement programs. A huge military, although I have no idea how they'd fund this since they can't tax anybody. No big budgets for education. No gay people.

I could go on and on and on, but y'all get the picture. Just how does all of this work?

Not to derail but you can't make blanket statements about Republicans. It's not fair and quite frankly, it shows your ignorance.

-Black Republicans are not tokens.They are Black people who hold certain beliefs. Are you going to tell Black people what they can and cannot believe?
-There are openly gay Republicans.
-There are women Republicans. Do you think Republican women don't care about their own rights?
-Little known secret, but Republicans come from a multitude of religions. There are even Muslim Republicans.

Sorry. I'm not a fan of partisan ignorance. We need to move beyond the "us vs them" mentality.

**Soul Rebel** · 11-13-2012, 06:14 AM

So Texas wants to Secede again, eh?

**Napia Mia** · 11-13-2012, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by chachadiva

Not to derail but you can't make blanket statements about Republicans. It's not fair and quite frankly, it shows your ignorance.

-Black Republicans are not tokens.They are Black people who hold certain beliefs. Are you going to tell Black people what they can and cannot believe?
-There are openly gay Republicans.
-There are women Republicans. Do you think Republican women don't care about their own rights?
-Little known secret, but Republicans come from a multitude of religions. There are even Muslim Republicans.

Sorry. I'm not a fan of partisan ignorance. We need to move beyond the "us vs them" mentality.

Eh, and I'm not a fan of and nor do I have the patience or energy for your arrogance today Chacha. You can't possibly think I'd want to engage in a converstion with you after you have the audacity to call my opinion ignorant, not ONCE but TWICE. I don't have an issue with you disagreeing with me or challenging my thinking or my opinion, but I do draw the line at being called ignorant.

**Intellexual** · 11-13-2012, 07:08 AM

I've been looking into secession and also how to move the capital of my state elsewhere. I believe it can bode exceedingly well for the liberation of blacked and working class people, especially given our prime Northeastern land, air, and sea access. Policy specific, it would be much easier for us to go without a massive military force/presence as well as to end our participation in the War on Drugs and the mass incarceration and disenfranchisement of poor and blacked people. Also, we would have much less legwork to do, toward a real democracy as opposed to a democratic republic (which is a model easily leveraged by corporations thus far, with less palms to grease and strongholds to tweak). We could approach true neutrality and sovereignty while offering a potentially attractive refuge for political prisoners and oppressed people within the neighboring US.

I've done a lot of social and political legwork in Trenton and statewide. From what I've observed and how our population has performed thus far, this state could have a strong economy and already has a majority of People-first, if not socialist, leanings. Without being nearly forced to participate in and fund costly military and corporate welfare/warfare efforts, I believe NJ could accelerate its path to peace and prosperity, if we could disengage from the Union.

I have had an easier time, as I expected, of helping Trentonians grasp why and how we could greatly benefit from removing ourselves from the likes of D.C. by giving up our status and debilitation as our state's capital. We have strong statewide public transportation, but that could use some more work toward greater stability as a territory. I do believe how and why a territory secedes can speak to the subsequent policy reform, but I also have been able to best our State government numerous times, despite their monetary (and often times MSM) advantages. With that, I have no fears about whether or not legwork and direct interaction with people could overcome propaganda and the risk of deeper tyrannical corporate leverage.

**Akomas_Angel** · 11-13-2012, 10:48 AM

Where'd you get the money to purchase Trenton or Jersey from the government?

How'd you get goods and services into your city or state?

All lines of transit belongs to the government. What'd you do about 'immigration'?

How would you fund education?

What'd you do for currency?

What country would you be able to get to supply your fuel?

Where'd you get the money from if a natural disaster would occur?

What'd you do about the people who are currently receiving social security, Medicare, food, housing, or bill assistance?

Where'd the money come from to maintain infrastructure?

Where's the water, electric, gas supply coming from?

I have more questions but I will start with those.