What makes some ashamed and some so proud of blackness :-/

[Babylon]

I am proud to be Black because of our strength and ability to presevere against great odds.

I am proud of our natural creativity, our magnificent history, our beauty and dept of Soul and Spirit.

...and so forth..

[KellyVonn]

I have been interviewed over the phone only to get this look when I go in for the face-to-face interview. It always makes me . I'm like "Yep...gotcha didn't I. We too can speak proper English." Usually it's white foke who's surprised. Sistahs usually can recognize other sistahs.

Sure thang!

[Babylon]

I slightly disagree. I do think us Black Americans/African Americans (I call it the same thing) have culture, but we aren't the only ones who don't know our Origins. Blacks from other Countries don't really know either. I don't think there are too many Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians etc... who can pinpoint where in Africa their ancestors came from. I actually know a couple that can't do it. A part of them was ripped away as well. I don't know why people just push this on Blacks in America as if we are the only ones who were oppressed and enslaved and had everything ripped away from us like this didn't happen to Blacks from other Countries as well.

Wasn't there a thread on a Dancehall Musician who used skin bleaching cream and there was a before and after picture of him? We actually spoke a bout this in the salon where I get my hair done and there are a ton of West Indians there. They were actually saying certain groups of West Indians do this and one lady said that everyone does it. Its not just us Black/African Americans who suffer from this entire "conflicted self-image."

And again. We DO have culture just like any other people.

This is just MY opinion.

Those other people (diasporans) were able to retain african customs, foods, belief systems, and some still speak the language of their forefathers so they do have much to embrace.

All of this has been permanently washed from our minds.

I don't call what we have a "culture" but rather an "enviornment." A lot of our ways and belief systems would be more appropriately considered a "hand me down" culture and I just can't accept it as a culture. It is not.

Anyway, the US has no monolithic "culture" but rather people of different ethnic backgrounds that have their own specific culture.

We forever lost our original culture.

[delleaux]

Ethnocentrism is a bytch!!!!

[LillyBBBW]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think sometimes these questions are comparable to, "Who is more beautiful, Lauryn Hill or Cindy Crawford?" I think both of these women are beautiful but it's like comparing apples and oranges sometimes. It depends on what you prefer. There is no official proxy that says one mode of beauty is better or less than the other.

That being said, there are many runway top models out there renowned the world over for their looks who hate their appearance. They don't like their nose, breasts, butt or just overall don't find themselves attractive. We can think they're crazy too but I think these prefferences in what someone finds beautiful still apply. I think people can learn to appreciate certain things but overall people are going to be attracted to what THEY find attractive and sometimes they won't even be particualrly drawn to themselves no matter how beautiful everyone else finds them. Is it sad, terrible? I'm not so sure, I think it's just the way life is. These expectations that everyone should find the same perfection in what you find beautiful are a little unrealistic. Life will just never work that way and somehow people will always want what they haven't got. If you're completely happy with yourself consider it a gift.

[Denny]

Those other people (diasporans) were able to retain african customs, foods, belief systems, and some still speak the language of their forefathers so they do have much to embrace.

All of this has been permanently washed from our minds.

I don't call what we have a "culture" but rather an "enviornment." A lot of our ways and belief systems would be more appropriately considered a "hand me down" culture and I just can't accept it as a culture. It is not.

Anyway, the US has no monolithic "culture" but rather people of different ethnic backgrounds that have their own specific culture.

We forever lost our original culture.

All cultures are 'hand me downs' the only difference between AA culture and others is time. Cultures are not stagnant cos human beings are not.

[Khalliqa]

Those other people (diasporans) were able to retain african customs, foods, belief systems, and some still speak the language of their forefathers so they do have much to embrace.

All of this has been permanently washed from our minds.

I don't call what we have a "culture" but rather an "enviornment." A lot of our ways and belief systems would be more appropriately considered a "hand me down" culture and I just can't accept it as a culture. It is not.

Anyway, the US has no monolithic "culture" but rather people of different ethnic backgrounds that have their own specific culture.

We forever lost our original culture.

I agree with this... I've long said what people attribute to the ties we have to Africa as culture are at best called a subculture.. but in my opinion it is no culture.. and that AA's are more influenced by the dominant culture of their former oppressors.. in addition, AA's have no unifying experience from which we exert with free will and conscious deliberation aspects of how we will "be".. we are largely assimilative.. responsive.. and scattered...

Keeping in mind that "culture" is loosely and subjectively defined.. even among sociologists there is some disagreement... re. how to define it..

So you will always find some people who feel very distant similarities equal culture.. and those who see similarities as just similarities which have long lost their significance and bonding relevance....

There are people who feel these things are powerful enough to define us and link us.. though in reality they do not..

The dominant white american culture.. ( remembering the "but.. but.. white american's don't define themselves through their race" and "what about the Italians?!" lol arguments made in response to my argument that they define what culture is in this country.. in another thread.somehow my point of sovreignty being endemic to true cultural development was consistently overlooked in favor of trying to define the nuances of how white folk look at themselves... but I digress..)

Anyway through our acceptance and assimilation with the dominant culture.. or revolting against the dominant white american culture.. in an attempt at self definition within the limits of the dominant power... our sojourn is largely dictated through our interaction with the dominant culture.. Hence.. our efforts to define ourselves through latent habits.. proclivities... tastes etc.. with africa.. are just disparate similarities etc.. AA's are largely disparate even within America through economic stratification with our "cultural" and worldview often varying wildly...

Unless there is a mass decision to force ourselves to try to think like and be like.. and largely interact with africans in the way our academic scholars tell us they used to act prior to the influence and ravages of imperialism.. we, imo, do not have an African culture... and barely have an AA one..


And while I agree that there is no true monolithic American culture technically.. (absolutes are not frequent socially anyway..) there are dominant and non dominant forces that dictate and define it.. and there is a distinct American culture that can be identified when compared to other cultures.. It is what many other cultures fight against...

All cultures are 'hand me downs' the only difference between AA culture and others is time. Cultures are not stagnant cos human beings are not.

Yes, Time.. but also what we are today has to include the period of time where we lost all connection in language.. philosophy.. self identity and self determination... we didn't just stray apart.. nor did we just suffer the ravages of war.. We were systematically and deliberately psychologically turned inside out and made to renounce.. reject and remain ignorant of what life was like before.. for generations... our former cultural self was removed from our sense of appreciation or connection... Many try to reclaim it and end up with some appreciation.. or recognition of some ties to food and dance.. etc.. and call that "see we're African!" perhaps there is a distant biological tie evident primarily in overt physical characteristics.. imo none of this can be defined as culture.. that is survival..

[Babylon]

Yes, Time.. but also what we are today has to include the period of time where we lost all connection in language.. philosophy.. self identity and self determination... we didn't just stray apart.. nor did we just suffer the ravages of war.. We were systematically and deliberately psychologically turned inside out and made to renounce.. reject and remain ignorant of what life was like before.. for generations... our former cultural self was removed from our sense of appreciation or connection... Many try to reclaim it and end up with some appreciation.. or recognition of some ties to food and dance.. etc.. and call that "see we're African!" perhaps there is a distant biological tie evident primarily in overt physical characteristics.. imo none of this can be defined as culture.. that is survival..

Thank you for answering her post.

Our situation is totally different from what she is implying.

I reiterate: This is NOT a culture that we currently opperate in.

[spaceoddity]

idk. i've almost always lived in places with mostly white people, but i've never felt bad to be dark skinned. i like my facial features and skin color. its cool to look different from other people, and for some reason i've always felt it was an advantage to be black, because there's the opportunity to prove stereotypes wrong, and it helps with college admissions and such.

but honestly, i dont really take skin colors and "races" seriously at all. they're just social constructs. its just culture that really separates people. just because someone has the same skin color as you doesnt mean you're going to have anything in common with them besides your skin color.

[doubledee]

i grew up in a black neighborhood but somehow never picked up on the culture of my surroundings because i was isolated. i know what it feels like being derided by my own kind. i actually used to separate myself from those "ghetto" people who made fun of my dark skin, yet called me white all the time. to build up my self-esteem i would say to myself, they are only good for having babies, they are just a bunch of welfare queens with no lives, they are stereotypical blacks that are not even black, they are n**** who make black people look bad. like i was seriously forcing upon myself a bougie image to escape their taunts.

there are two main reasons why i see why black people are ashamed of their blackness:

1. society ostracizing you because of their beauty standards, so you try to conform to the dominant eurocentric view of beauty by bleaching, perming, and cosmetic surgery

2. I noticed that many black folks are not too open-minded when it comes to embracing different people. many of us are stuck in that "i'm not gonna do this, because thats not a black thing to do" mentality and avoid people are different. people who fit in this "different" category (people who have diff. interests - anime, rock music, etc) may feel that they are rejected by their own kind and realize that they are more accepted by other races because of their interests, or personality. such rejection may lead to them despising their own race. i have experienced this, and i believe you did as well lewislover. i think a lot of us are ashamed by the stereotypical black people who perpetuate every negative notion that has been used to belittle us.

@ vavoon
Omg i completely agree, I'm always the only black girl in any group and like so called black AND white music and anime etc. I feel like black people don't accept me because I'm not "black enough" (in terms of personality not skin colour)
Strangely enough though I've been surrounded by majority white people all of my life and I've never been ashamed of being black. It was never an issue.
If anything I've always wanted to act more black (I know it's f'ed up) so that I could get black friends. (I use to try and change how i spoke and how I acted, I know pathetic) In recent years though I've just accepted myself for who I am.

@lewislover
I don't think that what you went through is anything to be ashamed of, you should be proud you've come so far. I think a lot of people go through a stage of ignorance, it's part and parcel of being black in my opinion, it was the same for my mother, she told me she was ignorant until she was in her 20s or 30s which is why she made sure if she ever had any kids they would never be ashamed of who they were.