User Tag List
Thanks: 0
Likes: 0
Results 11 to 20 of 86
Thread: Science vs Belief
-
06-10-2010, 03:51 PM #11
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Posts
- 7,033
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 2 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 35
Place a cap atop a cup. The cup is cylindrical, but it is also potentially flat or bound. Place a square atop a rod and it can be rotated. The circle or circular motion regarded as a circle itself can exist without being a two dimensional sphere. The metaphorical and/or literal translation isn't going to work, with the given text. I think I remember seeing something else in the bible that was more subjective toward a plausible argument. I hope you won't mind if I PM you, should I find the passage. One might not like to try to use that literally (even if it were better mathematically) as it was written just like the four corners tidbit.
Last edited by Intellexual; 06-10-2010 at 03:56 PM.
2009: Transitioned
2020: Mature, Freeformed Locs
-
06-10-2010, 04:04 PM #12
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Posts
- 8,960
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 1 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 37
Everyone, let's not deviate into a discussion about the Bible or evolution vs creation. Let's not go there. Keep it about the overall idea of science vs belief.
Great discussion!! Let's keep it going.
Sassy, I agree with you. I love science and I'm also a person of faith. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. However, in the real world, people seems to want to take sides and proclaim one side is real while the other side is just conjecture.
By the way, if anyone is interested, Morgan Freeman has produced a new series on the Science Channel that discusses some of these issues. Google "Through the Wormhole." In the first episode it features a scientist who became a priest, a scientist who believes the "God concept" is just something created within the brain, and a scientist who believes in a "creator" but also believes that we (people) are just illusions in the mind of the "creator." It's all very interesting stuff.
-
06-10-2010, 04:24 PM #13
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Location
- Montreal
- Posts
- 21,202
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 77
The notion of a separation of faith and science is a recent one, most, if not all, the great scientist of the Renaissance were believers but that didn't stop them from wanting to find out how the world around them works. As far as I'm concerned religion should take care of the morale side of man and science takes care of the physical world.
I think this is where the problem lies as well. Personally i have no problem with the notion of Intelligent design, but it should remain in the relm of religion, not science because it would make science say something it isn't. I say man is descended from that first creature that crawled out of the primordial pool and came to be through evolution. You say God had a hand in making it happen because He had a plan. And if you reject what science says, that's ok too, but again, that's about faith and belief and to me, that's not on the same level as speculation based on the what one extrapolate from the physical world.
-
06-10-2010, 09:11 PM #14
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- South Carolina
- Posts
- 719
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 14
Re the highlighted: Why couldn't it have come from chaos?
Re the bolded, I don't see why that's a hard pill to swallow for some. If that's the way it happened, then that's the way it happened!
Hmmm, I've run across evolution vs 2nd law of thermodynamics arguments, but not too many involving the 1st law.
http://steamdoc.s5.com/writings/thermo.html
This article was written by an evangelical Christian with a Ph.D in chemical engineering. It's quite interesting from what I skimmed and easy to read so I linked it.
Either way, I'm sure someone with a physics background (GG, perhaps?) or someone who is pretty knowledgeable about the thermo laws could answer that.
Re the bolded...do you know of any other such theories besides the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
And besides, a theory doesn't prove anything. Theories are essentially very well-supported ideas. Examples include the cell theory, the particle theory, and the theory of plate tectonics to name a few off the top of my head. As I mentioned before, I can understand someone saying that another has "faith" in a theory because theories, especially of subjects that are not currently well-known, can be shattered as soon as one single piece of new evidence is discovered.
The field of science and all its branches is a remarkable thing, but it doesn't claim to know everything and there are contradictions littered about here and there. That doesn't take away from its validity as a whole, it just means that scientists have a never-ending task before them.
And I'm not singling out anyone here, but the vibe I get from a lot religious people regarding science is one of hostility. It's as if such people believe that Big, Bad Science is trying to take the validity, usefulness, and relevancy away from their God or something. They nit-pick and try to find loopholes to "disprove" some scientific theorem and use that to "prove" their belief for why their God exists. Why can't they both co-exist peacefully? As Lil John said, "don't start no sh1t, won't be no sh1t".
Again, this is people who create a false dichotomy between religion and science--a true one doesn't exist, IMO.Last edited by SassyB; 06-10-2010 at 09:26 PM. Reason: clarification...i hope!
"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." - Bertrand Russell
-
06-10-2010, 09:25 PM #15
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- Atlanta, Ga.
- Posts
- 6,854
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 23
Revelation
1:7 "He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him."
Everyone will see Jesus descend from the sky. Such an event
would only be possible on a flat earth.
7:1 "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth."
The earth is flat and square-shaped, or at least quadrilateral in shape.http://www.Queenlocks.com
http://queenlocks.wordpress.com
NP Member for 10+ years!
NP Of The Month OCT. 2004
-
06-10-2010, 09:26 PM #16
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Oregon
- Posts
- 2,100
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 20
Chacha, great question. I have been reading Derrick Jensen and Erich Fromm lately, and I do believe that the reliance on science can be considered a form of idolatry, and not just atheists, I mean society in general and even people that consider themselves religious. Yes, science has helped society in many areas, but it is not a foolproof method of experiencing the truth of our world. Dr's know a lot about the human body, but they don't know everything. We know some of the nutrients in any given fruit/veggie/meat, but there are actually components in these foods that we haven't identified yet, too.
So, basically, yes, it can be argued that science/technology can be just as much a "crutch" as religion or any other belief system.BC: Spring 2000
-
06-10-2010, 09:33 PM #17
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Posts
- 6,268
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 2 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 30
Here's a good break down of that. This article describes the "4 corners" really being in reference to North, South, East, and West.
-
06-10-2010, 09:42 PM #18
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Location
- London, U.K
- Posts
- 8,875
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 38
Great thread - Rev 1:7 does not say everyone shall see Him at the same time lol
'Four corners of the earth' sounds like a literary metaphor to me , we are allowed those in writing are we not?
I agree science and religion are not mutally exclusive, some of European history greatest scientist were Christian believers (Newton, Galileo) and some were not. Its a shame in our time they seem to be at odds.http://public.fotki.com/Lockyladyden
Join date March 2004
Locks installed 12/2005.
Go PANK you know you want to...
-
06-10-2010, 09:56 PM #19
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Posts
- 7,033
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 2 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 35
Jesus was a carpenter. That's an applied science. It's not amazing that scientists were theologically disciplined and/or devote also. It's surprising that people who are really bad or inarticulate representatives of their own discipline are sourced to refute the validity of someone else's experience(s). I believe that is what happens, in this day and age. People will take an extreme failure or lack of integrity and try to figure out how that defines a whole that the individual who isn't perfect is just a part of otherwise.
2009: Transitioned
2020: Mature, Freeformed Locs
-
06-10-2010, 10:54 PM #20Freshman Napp
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- Chicagoland
- Posts
- 16
- Reviews
- Read 0 Reviews
- Post Thanks / Like
- Mentioned
- 0 Post(s)
- Tagged
- 0 Thread(s)
- Rep Power
- 0
[QUOTE\]
For example the 1st law of Thermodynamics aka conservation of energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed to another form. So by that definition, evolution could not have occurred. Where did the first cell get the energy to divide itself from? If you're a christian this is not a problem, because we already know the Source from which all energy flows.[/QUOTE]
I am sorry if I am off topic, but do you believe that as a non-Christian, I cannot know the source from which all energy flows? Is it either "be a christian and know the answer to this equation" or stumble in the darkness? I am not being confrontational, I just want to know if this is how (you as a) christian sees this.
Bookmarks