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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karibana View Post
    @Kayin: That is a different debate then multiculturalism actually. I'm talking about societies that welcome immigrants with open arms, make multicuralism a pillar of their integration model and are now dealing with marginal groups who pretty much want to create a little corner of homelan in their new home and how the "natives" deal with, either with a rise of xenophobic right wing parties as in the UK or in The Netherlands or people complaining loudly here in Canada.

    France and Italy never had any pretensions of a multiculti society. France flirted with it during the 96 World Cup when they won with a Black-Blanc-Beur (black-white-North African) team but that thin veneer burned off quickly with this year's team: many French said that multicultural team wasn't French enough and once the team lost, well, political correctness went out the window.
    For clarity, the countries that you referred to - Canada, UK, the Netherlands - are these the countries that welcomed people with open arms? And what exactly constitutes an "open arm" welcome? Germany for example at one point was encouraging Turkish migration. Is this what you are referring to?

    When you refer to societies making multiculturalism being a pillar of a county's integration model, is it that the society as whole did this or is it that the government of the countries in question are doing this?
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  2. #12
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    By open arm policies, I mean that the host nations have high annual quotas.

    OK I'll admit that it's the governements who open the gates to compensate for their dwindling populations as Tani says.

    In Canada and The Netherlands the population went along as long as immigrants either integrated or didn't have any particular issue associated with them. Then the economy going sour, and issues like what we call here reasonable accomodations, Theo Van Gogh's murder in The Netherlands or crimes associated with particular ethnic groups and suddenly the population turns against open immigration polices.

    When you refer to societies making multiculturalism being a pillar of a county's integration model, is it that the society as whole did this or is it that the government of the countries in question are doing this?
    Here in Canada it's both, many do see it as the hallmark of Canadian identity along with our medicare system.


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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele4905 View Post
    Can you expand on this? I live in NYC and immigrant communities tend to do exactly that, model their current neighborhoods after their respective countries of origin. Maybe it's because the city/ country was created by way of immigration, but communities and cultures are fluid and so change is inevitable.

    Which makes no sense to me, why leave home to totally recreate home? Having restaurants, shops is one thing but if a community then expected their fellow taxpayers to have street signs in their language, local government papers in their language, schools just for their children, buying up a whole street so only their kind can live there then IMO thats another deal! Plus I bet its we immigrants that have this nostalgic, fake memory of 'back home' Home is so wonderful and back home so great you could not wait to leave it lol
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBellatrix View Post

    What do you think? In what ways has the drive towards multiculturalism succeeded or failed? Is it something that's still worth pursuing? Is it even possible or realistic given humans' tendencies to stick with their own kind?
    there's a quote from montaigne that i love but can't find at the moment. it basically boils down to creating a balance of where you came from and where you travel but the analogy he uses is changing your hat in whatever country you're in. i'll look for it and post later. anyway that's how i live. i really cant understand people who travel to other places and will just stick with their own kind. i was never one of those americans who travelled overseas and stuck with english speaking people and ate at familiar places like pizza hut and mcdonald's.

    i definitely don't understand how people can come to a foreign country, be there for years raise a family and not be able to speak the language

    i kind of agree with merkel a little on this, but humans are above all humans and there will always be the need for most of us to be amongst similar looking faces.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michele4905 View Post
    Can you expand on this? I live in NYC and immigrant communities tend to do exactly that, model their current neighborhoods after their respective countries of origin. Maybe it's because the city/ country was created by way of immigration, but communities and cultures are fluid and so change is inevitable.
    this is was the biggest shock i had when i met my first real life new yorkers in college. i was always under the impression that nyc was this mythical magical land where people just mix all over the place. it's definitely not AS segregated as where i'm from in ohio, but it's still not that uncommon to hear people say they never leave their neighborhood or that they wouldnt want to date someone who didnt live in their borough.

    many French said that multicultural team wasn't French enough and once the team lost, well, political correctness went out the window.
    yeah i remember that. funny that guy also forgot to add that the french team was kinda old. like half the players on the last squad were also on the team in 98. old players tend to be more picky about having a say in what the team does. i seriously doubt them being rowdy had anything to do with their backgrounds because they had the same backgrounds in 98 but were younger, hungrier and knew when to STFU
    Last edited by GalaxyGirl2010; 10-19-2010 at 02:41 AM.

  5. #15
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    Let me get this straight: white people worldwide want you to stay in your country or assimilate right. But if you stay in your country you should be good? No, not even then because of the imperialism and colonialism, whereby which they come into your country, force you to adopt their standards to succeed in the global market and still penalize you for not being born white and Western. Uh-huh. *head-desk*

    And this from Germany, please. When a Western country claims they've tried multiculturalism this means they let you pesky brown people come outside, and have jobs sometimes, but damn now y'all are starting to think you're human or something, even on the same level as the glorious white folk.
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  6. #16
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    I don't think there is a gif for her statement.

    Honestly, peel away all the layers and the fact remains is they're not accepted because they're not white Germans.

    Substitute Germans for Americans. Same thing. Why else would an Asian person whose family has been here since the 1800s get "Ching chong"? Why else would a Hispanic person whose family has been in the Southwest BEFORE it was the U.S. get "go back to your country"?

    Not to mention these countries are NOTORIOUS for not assimilating into the cultures of the countries they went into.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysmile751 View Post
    I don't think there is a gif for her statement.

    Honestly, peel away all the layers and the fact remains is they're not accepted because they're not white Germans.

    Substitute Germans for Americans. Same thing. Why else would an Asian person whose family has been here since the 1800s get "Ching chong"? Why else would a Hispanic person whose family has been in the Southwest BEFORE it was the U.S. get "go back to your country"?

    Not to mention these countries are NOTORIOUS for not assimilating into the cultures of the countries they went into.
    OK?! Preach

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysmile751 View Post
    I don't think there is a gif for her statement.

    Honestly, peel away all the layers and the fact remains is they're not accepted because they're not white Germans.

    Substitute Germans for Americans. Same thing. Why else would an Asian person whose family has been here since the 1800s get "Ching chong"? Why else would a Hispanic person whose family has been in the Southwest BEFORE it was the U.S. get "go back to your country"?

    Not to mention these countries are NOTORIOUS for not assimilating into the cultures of the countries they went into.
    Not saying I disagree with you but that the difference between immigration and colonialism/imperialism mindset. The latter conquers the nations they take over and imposes their culture on its inhabitants, humanity been doing this since the Babylonians roamed the earth and started their empire. However immigration where an individual up sticks amd makes the choice to move from Romania to Canada should expect a Canadian lifestyle when they get there not a copycat version or a mini Romania.
    When it come to North and South America the only non immigrants are the indigenous populations and the African Diaspora they should be the only groups allowed to re-create their homeland since they had no say in the matter of how they came to be where they are.....
    Everyone else should adapt.....(I know wishful thinking)
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  9. #19
    murakan is offline Active Nappturality Member
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    ITA with taniseka and Psyann sentiments..

    multiculturalism is a myth..nothing more, nothing less..

    it is dangerous to start assuming that all immigrants are leaving their home countries to seek a 'better' life, some of them have no choice..also most European countries have such a loose and parochial notion of 'culture' its hard for anyone to know what this should be..
    learning the countrys language is important but in my opinion not necessarily for integration..lets face it, this as so many other thinly veiled arguments is a race debate..the eastern european community in most euro countries has literally fenced itself off and stuck to its own, many of this community speak with an Israeli accent (having NEVER been there) because they are so insular yet this is never brought up or highlighted as a issue..
    In Europe Islamaphobia is at an all time high and all non Euro peoples are targetted and problematised under this banner..its quite impressive how imaginative how these politicians get with their arguments..
    Black man know yourself...dont forget your past ~ Fela Kuti

  10. #20
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    ...bump...
    "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." - Chinese Proverb

    "Fall seven times a day, stand up eight." - Japanese Proverb

    “All truth is good, but not all truth is good to say.” - African Proverb

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