User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910
Results 91 to 100 of 100
  1. #91
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    9,573
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khalliqa View Post
    I'm not for increased teacher pay.. based on education and work load.. I'm for performance/improvement based pay that is not based on test scores.. but is assessed according to the type of students they have and the percentage of improvement the students display..

    Evaluating student progression based on where the student is before entering a class and the rate of growth thereafter is more important than giving pay because you have a degree and have a heavy workload..
    If schools don't use testing as a means of evaluating progress, what other assessment methods are there that will yield consistent, reliable results across the entire student body. The method would have to be devoid of any inherent bias for culture, geographical area, etc.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,512
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chachadiva View Post
    If schools don't use testing as a means of evaluating progress, what other assessment methods are there that will yield consistent, reliable results across the entire student body. The method would have to be devoid of any inherent bias for culture, geographical area, etc.
    All testing carries a percentage of bias..

    My quip was against utilizing current standardized testing methods to assess teacher pay

    Testing itself is not bad.. But standardized testing should be a small part of a larger assessment that includes heavy reliability on portfolios and standardized rubrics..

    Such things require time and attention that schools systems can't afford.. but are necessary imo to evaluate..

    As a homeschooling mom.. and most homeschoolers say something similar.. testing is almost never needed because you are integrally involved with the student .. Your involvement results in constant and immediate feedback.. and also nuanced feedback so I could tell which objective within which level of math my son needed help in.. AND catch it before hand because I could see his struggles.. (say grouping for instance).. I did not need a test or portfolio..

    Because the school system operates from the mass education mentality it fundamentally gets it wrong imo..

    It gets more problematic when dealing with diverse AND underserved AND under resourced communities.. with varieties of worldviews and environments..

    My response was really an IF I were to consider teacher pay.. (If you look at my prior post I'm against an increase in pay period.. and favor a complete overhaul and re evaluation of the point and purpose of school) but IF I were I would focus more on evaluating how well the teacher can mimic the above scenario.. wherein they are more integrally involved... class size is part of it.. but even with reduced class size you can have a teacher teaching to a standardized test with little to no inkling of how well her students are processing information just how well they follow steps and procedures.. which means given new information they will falter if they do not have a teacher with the exact same teaching method.. a method btw with its own inherent flaws.. Portfolios help in this regard.. in the best case scenario where you're dealing with children you really don't have the time to follow but can assess their more nuanced understanding outside the classroom.. a generalized standard testing model will allow the teacher to get an overview of the class in general.. But children deserve more than that imo...
    "Life is an unfoldment, and the further we travel the more truth we can comprehend. To understand the things that are at our door is the best preparation for understanding those that lie beyond." ~ Hypatia

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    12,195
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khalliqa View Post
    I do not work in the public school system.. I'm very involved in education.. What things does it explain?
    Your views and their consistency with those who aren't/haven't been in classrooms, which is typical when it comes to education.
    Like this...

    is more important than giving pay because you have a degree and have a heavy workload
    ^^^That is utterly riDICulous!

    *sigh* Outsiders think they have all the solutions. What other profession gets that?? Carry on...
    Last edited by AuNappturale; 04-09-2011 at 03:35 PM.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,512
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AuNappturale View Post
    Your views and their consistency with those who aren't/haven't been in classrooms, which is typical when it comes to education.
    Like this...

    ^^^That is utterly riDICulous!

    *sigh* Outsiders think they have all the solutions. What other profession gets that?? Carry on...

    Ah.. Of course.. I do not like the public school system I thought I made that VERY clear.. so hence I would not want to work in a system I despise.. and why would I have something nice to say about something I've clearly not opted to be a part of? Not being a part of it is only part of what you should assess.. if you look at WHY you can evaluate whether or not my conclusion is justified.. but according to you, you agree with the criticisms I've listed except getting paid more money.. :-/


    I think caring mothers and concerned citizens have a valid say and inherent part to play in offering solutions regarding the cultivation and education of THEIR children ...

    The problem with the school system is that it forgot its place.. the children do not belong to the school system.. the school system is a tool of the parents and community to properly guide their children in the way they deem is best.. When that system fails it is very much the responsibility of those whose children they have placed in such a system to give an opinion about how it is working towards the end for their goals..

    The children do not belong to the system and therefore we don't have to pay individual employees money simply because they exist..

    Of course it is not treated like other professions.. but it should be similar to treatment and criticism the medical profession receives.. If your hospital is only healing those who have the resources to heal themselves and the occasional one who does not.. or it promotes illness.. or it is mishandling funds.. or people.. or in cahoots with other industries for profit at the expense of the people it is there to serve then giving doctors more money simply because they went to medical school solves NOTHING... how the system works needs evaluation..
    Last edited by Khalliqa; 04-09-2011 at 03:54 PM.
    "Life is an unfoldment, and the further we travel the more truth we can comprehend. To understand the things that are at our door is the best preparation for understanding those that lie beyond." ~ Hypatia

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    12,195
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khalliqa View Post
    but according to you, you agree with the criticisms I've listed except getting paid more money.. :-/
    Ah, sweets, you misread. I didn't say I agree. I said I didn't have strong opinions. That meant I don't feel strongly enough about them to engage in a discussion. Now, if an educator would like to hop in, I'll take it up.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,512
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AuNappturale View Post
    Ah, sweets, you misread. I didn't say I agree. I said I didn't have strong opinions. That meant I don't feel strongly enough about them to engage in a discussion. Now, if an educator would like to hop in, I'll take it up.
    Ah, "sugar".. my apologies.. regarding your strong opinions

    I take issue with the term educator. but considering the lack of desire to ensure the term means something relevant to those for whose children you have been entrusted to help cultivate academically.. I unfortunately expect such assumptions from such employees..

    On the other hand, I can understand the desire to discuss your efforts with other people's children only with those who share your commitment to keep doing what you're doing.. to get paid more money for it.. and to not discuss it with the people whose service you are entrusted.. and subsequently whose taxes fund your very existence.. it is an attitude that is consistent with the employees of the system..

    and hence why I stand as someone who wishes to see less power and influence given to such an institution..

    that is unless you work for a private school.. then we'd probably have more to discuss regarding shared goals towards working togethr for the benefit of the children rather than discussing how to work for the benefit of the employees of a failed and failing system..which is not doing a good job of benefiting our children.. The latter discussion is best held among employees of that failing system..
    Last edited by Khalliqa; 04-09-2011 at 05:13 PM.
    "Life is an unfoldment, and the further we travel the more truth we can comprehend. To understand the things that are at our door is the best preparation for understanding those that lie beyond." ~ Hypatia

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    9,573
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khalliqa View Post
    On the other hand, I can understand the desire to discuss your efforts with other people's children only with those who share your commitment to keep doing what you're doing.. to get paid more money for it.. and to not discuss it with the people whose service you are entrusted.. and subsequently whose taxes fund your very existence.. it is an attitude that is consistent with the employees of the system..
    Excellent point. Who is allowed to discuss these issues? Only teachers or can we include parent and childless taxpayers in the discussion?

    If my taxes go to pay teachers salaries, do I not get a chance to voice my thoughts? It's the same with any taxpayer supported function.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    12,195
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khalliqa View Post
    On the other hand, I can understand the desire to discuss and to not discuss it with the people whose service you are entrusted..
    Ahhh, but your children aren't a part of the system...and it's you NON-EDUCATORS who are ruining it.

    And yes, I prefer to have discourse with other experts vs outsiders with uninformed views. That being said, ANYONE with internet access may participate in the discussion, Chacha.
    Last edited by AuNappturale; 04-09-2011 at 07:00 PM.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,606
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    "If my taxes go to pay teachers salaries, do I not get a chance to voice my thoughts? It's the same with any taxpayer supported function."

    i once had a co-worker in a conference w/ a parent who did NOTHING to help ensure her child's education, did not encourage her child to take an active role in his education, but had the nerve to say something about her tax dollars going to pay my co-workers salary.
    my co-worker promptly opened her wallet, pulled out a penny, and gave it to the indignant parent w/ these parting words, "here's your penny that actually went towards my salary. when you and your child are ready to work towards HIS education let me know."
    and w/ that she left the "conference"...

    e.t.a...that was about 20 years ago...i suspect that penny is now worth about .50 cents, if that.
    http://members.fotki.com/bellazaina/

    We are creations of God...why let man define us when man did not create us?

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    9,573
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bella13 View Post
    i once had a co-worker in a conference w/ a parent who did NOTHING to help ensure her child's education, did not encourage her child to take an active role in his education, but had the nerve to say something about her tax dollars going to pay my co-workers salary.
    Was the issue salary only or do teachers believe or feel it's their responsibility to educate children. Was that the real point of contention?

Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •