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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Too much shadiness...how can employers REALLY trust each other's word?

    How can employers really trust each other when they check for job history and references???

    I caught my supervisor telling a small group of folks in the hall to not talk about me to perspective employers. She told them, "Don't give Kurliez a reference if anyone calls for her." Currently and understandably, most of my coworkers are scared poohless and don't want to lose their jobs. The supervisor just happened turn her head, saw me, and said with a wide grin that I'm doing a great job on such and such and if I'm going to reconsider my notice. I know she knows I was there, but decided to play it off like I never heard what she just said.

    Wow...a little two faced, ain't ya? I was thinking. I said, well, I'm going to go ahead on with my notice, but thanks though.



    A couple of months ago, this same supervisor and her cronie assistant supervisor gave awesome raving reviews over the phones (yes, you can hear them down the hall even with the doors close 'cause they are that dang ghetto loud) about an employee that EVERYONE, and I mean truly EVERYONE, dislikes and CANNOT stand! For now, she will be referred to as BullyBish "BullyBish a hard worker! BullyBish's so good with people!" they said. Unfortunately, BullyBish is still with us.

    BullyBish is loud and ghetto as hell bully, is a major slacker, never finished shyt, isn't pleasant to ANYONE, literally berates and degrades clients and coworkers out in the open, always seems to be PMSing and complainting, and blah blah blah. BullyBish has NUMEROUS complaints against her from me, coworkers, clients, and the board members! Yes, the freaking board members can't even stand her and we meet with them like a few times a year...if that. We all still have no clue why she isn't fired or laid off yet...she's been there as longer than I have, and still just doesn't get the job. The supervisor and assistant supervisor even admitted to me and complainted a few times to me that they don't like her and her attitude and don't even talk to her..unless they have to Do you folks see where I'm heading?


    So why in the hell's kitchen don't I deserve a good reference (or one at all)? I gave good work. I have nothing but positive reviews in my record. My current employer is only going to get dates on me and not a reference.

    I asked three of my coworkers if I can use them as references. Ms. Panicky McParanoid whom I've know for almost a year and we get together and talk together almost daily said, "NO! I don't know you well enough to give you a reference! I don't want to get in trouble!!!!" Uhm...a simple no would have been fine Ms. DesperateforattentionandcriesdailyoverthingsthatIa in'tthatserious said, "We'll...I think about it. Why are you leaving anyway?" Told this chica several times why over the months and it just don't click in. And with Ms. Idon'tknowwherethehellIamhalfthetime is a sweet older woman. I've worked with her for over a year too and talked to have almost everyday. She tells me about her kids and grand babies, her life, and I talk about myself to her. The only issue is that even though we talked every single day, she still don't know my name by heart. I swear ya'll, I don't know what to say. Every day, I'm either Kelly, Kassie, Karrie, Fiona, just randomness She genuinely doesn't remember my name, but she always knows my face. I have to remind her from time to time who I am. I asked her to be my reference and she said, yes, but I'm worried she won't remember my name after two days.

    I'm going to ask other coworkers to be my professional references and ask to use their home numbers.

    Anywho, I just don't get how employers can really trust other employers' references. I think too many employers are worried about applicants lying or covering up stuff instead of questioning how a coworker can work at this place for X number of years and with different titles (to show job promotions) and not get a good reference or a reference at all.
    Your thoughts on my crazy encounters and on employers trusting other employers in general?

    I can't wait to work at my new job in a couple of weeks. I'm tired of this trifflingness. I'm trying to do two jobs; a morning job and an evening job.
    By NP member Vavoon. This is me 24/7/365 lol

  2. #2
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    This is something that I've always had an issue with, and I think the truth is that you can't trust employers to give good references. I've always had issues with managers because I am a head strong type of person. Well, not always, but usually with managers at places that I've worked for long periods of time.

    It's usually because I work there longer than them, they come in and try to make their mark on something that works just fine the way it is. Or generally speaking, since I'm a natural leader, very well liked and respected by other employees as well as superiors (owners, etc), management will feel threatened and try to put me "in my place" so to speak.

    So when I leave jobs like this, I never trust that manager to give me a good reference. Luckily I haven't had any super serious jobs, so I've been able to avoid using the managers as references and instead use assistant managers or fellow shift leads.

    So I dont know if there is a solution. In many job interviews I've had the "how would your last supervisor review you" and I've been totally honest about it in most cases. I'll say hey, we had issues but I was a great employee. This is what happened - he has an issue with me for this and that reason. But if you ask anyone else who works there, I am more than an amazing employee and part of the reason why I left is because of the disrespect. <-- this honesty has been understood and appreciated and resulted in hires. And I think most people GET IT. Most people have been in that position before.

    Good luck though. Maybe you can have your files with your reviews faxed or mailed over rather than a phone call. Who knows.

  3. #3
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    it happens. that's why it's good to check with your references first before just putting their names down. i always call before hand asking if i can use them as a reference.

    when it gets to the stage where the new job wants to check, i send each person who was OK with being a reference a link to the job posting and give them an idea of when they might be contacted and who will be calling them.


    another thing you can do is direct people to the HR department of places where you might not get a good reference. The HR department will just verify your employment dates. But in general, it's good to have at least 2-3 direct managers who respect you and your work and who you can count on for references.

    If you aren't able to come up with 2-3 managers like that then maybe it's time to re-evaluate your work style and how you come across to others. Having a personality issue at 1 or 2 places is normal, but if it happens every where you work, then you gotta start looking at the common denominator in those situations : you.

  4. #4
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    ^Ooorrrr....I just working with a bunch of trifflin' folks in management and no amount of style changing or butt kissing is going to change their actions and thoughts about me and my actions.


    Pammie, thank you! Of course I know this from common sense, but it's really nice to know that there are folks that understand what I'm going through<3
    By NP member Vavoon. This is me 24/7/365 lol

  5. #5
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    I'm sorry, but I lol'd. I get you tho. I've run into these same issues, but nothing major. Most of my references are former co-workers and only one manager. I, too, think that potential employers put waaayyy too much stock into what current/former employers say. I mean, if they're salty about you leaving or wanting to keep you, they are liable to say anything. I know that they are only able to say so much, but many smaller offices or close knit businesses don't fully adhere to that. There are also plenty of ways around it. "Would you rehire, MzDiva?" "No, we wouldn't." "Thank you. That is all." Pow...shot dead.
    "Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved."

    Twitter me this: http://twitter.com/DivaNTransition

  6. #6
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    When you give a prospective employer a number for your prior employer, it should be the number to HR (a lot of companies have a number dedicated solely to verifying employment). Most employers will only say whether they would rehire you, in order to avoid being sued by a former employee.

    Your professional references can also be places that you volunteer or serve on the board of directors for as well.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by *~MzDiva~* View Post
    I'm sorry, but I lol'd. I get you tho. I've run into these same issues, but nothing major. Most of my references are former co-workers and only one manager. I, too, think that potential employers put waaayyy too much stock into what current/former employers say. I mean, if they're salty about you leaving or wanting to keep you, they are liable to say anything. I know that they are only able to say so much, but many smaller offices or close knit businesses don't fully adhere to that. There are also plenty of ways around it. "Would you rehire, MzDiva?" "No, we wouldn't." "Thank you. That is all." Pow...shot dead.
    but why would any employer want to hire someone if the majority of places this person has worked they have left on bad terms? having a few iffy spots is fine, but dont you think it's a warning sign if someone has been working for years and has NO former manager who can say something nice about them? they could be the nicest person in the interview process, and have the skills and qualifications of a god, but no one wants to spend 8+ hours a day with a difficult personality if they can help it


    i just recently went through a bunch of interviews for a new job (YAY i got it). when i first applied, i put my former employer on because i was still there. to make a long story short i only worked there a month because they were taking advantage of the fact that i was a free lancer and were late in paying me and not giving me any ideas on when i could expect payment. when it came time for the new job to contact references, my contract had been terminated with the old job on bad terms (i basically abandoned my projects and deliveries until i would get my paycheck and i "forgot" to tell my coworkers the status of those projects so they could help with delivery). had i have known i was only going to work there for a month i would have left it off my resume, but i didnt so they asked if they could call my manager for a reference. i said no and explained why. they were OK with it because i gave them 2 other managers that they could call .

    i have 2 other jobs that are iffy on the references (one from a manager being pissed at how i answered exit interview questions and another from a manager who took it too personally that i wanted to leave) but i never list those people as references. i list the HR number as teh contact
    Last edited by GalaxyGirl2012; 08-04-2012 at 08:39 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl2012 View Post
    but why would any employer want to hire someone if the majority of places this person has worked they have left on bad terms? having a few iffy spots is fine, but dont you think it's a warning sign if someone has been working for years and has NO former manager who can say something nice about them? they could be the nicest person in the interview process, and have the skills and qualifications of a god, but no one wants to spend 8+ hours a day with a difficult personality if they can help it
    If you have years of experience, I could understand this point. Limited experience, however, can put a person at a disadvantage in these situations. Everyone is not going to "like" you or agree with you moving on from a situation, no matter the reason. Ideally, there would be no issues with using former employers as references if you were a decent employee. In reality, tho, this is not the case. These individuals may or may not know how to separate their personal feelings from their professional duties and this is the unfortunate risk that people face when using former managers, etc as references. They know how damaging a negative report to a potential employer can be. As illustrated by the OP, professionalism and business ethics do not exist everywhere. I can also attest to this from personal experiences. Potential employers need to realize that just because my former boss couldn't stand my *** on a personal level, doesn't make me a shitty employee.
    "Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved."

    Twitter me this: http://twitter.com/DivaNTransition

  9. #9
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    yeah but why would that be a surprise to the former employee? i guess i dont understand why people are listing former employers as references without first knowing what type of reference they are going to get?

    i've definitely worked places where i left in less than lovey dovey circumstances, but i for dern sure wouldnt be listing them as a reference. but i'd also give the potential new employer a quick head's up to the situation in case they would call. i'd also do it in a way that showed i wasnt bitter or angry. for instance theis is how the conversation went with my new job about calling the old place for a reference

    them : you indicated on your application that we couldn't call your present employer as a reference. why is that?
    me: for 2 reasons. for one i've only worked there a month, most of my projects were hand off from coworkers that were 80-90% completed, so my manager didnt have time to make accurate judge on my abilities as a PM. The second reason is related to them being shady about paying me, so my manager would say i abandoned my projects . but after i learned from other PMs that this is something that goes on every month and they have to chase their paychecks i decided i would rather not deal with that and have them terminate my contract.


    they were OK with that, didnt call and i was offered the position.

    i think the problem comes because people just assume they are going to get OK references, when that's not often the case.

    one thing that's good to do for jobs where you think you might receive a good reference is , after you've left but not too much afterward, contact your old manager via email, give them a list of your job duties, give yourself an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses and ask them if they agree with you and if there's anything else they might want to add.

  10. #10
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    I get what Mz. Diva is saying tho: I don't know about Kurliez situation but I've had points in my career where I didn't have enough references to play the reference shuffle game and I had to list even those that were iffy. In the first case I just directed people to HR for dates. When I interviewed with who would become my next (and last) employer they asked me for a managerial reference and similar to what you said, GG2012 I explained to them why that wasn't for the best and they understood and hired me anyway.

    When I left hat turned out to be my last traditional job, my manager just needed ...help. It was a situation much more like Kurliez where I knew I should get a good referral but I couldn't trust that I would since my immediate supervisor had severe mood swings to say the least (and I think her BF beat her). She was also passive-aggressively mad that I changed to a flex shift (even tho she had to approve it) and a few other factors that in no way affected my performance but she used them as reasons to be mad (for example one of the other members of my unit was often absent due to chronic back pain from a bad car accident. Nothing to do with me but Supervisor was still mad). As part of my exit interview I asked for a meeting with her and HR. I wanted an explanation of what my reference would be and why and I wanted her answer on record such that if someone received a different reference from her I could go back and ask WTF. Turns out it never came up because I moved onto what is now my profession but it was good insurance to have if it had ever some up because I just for real could not trust her. If someone called when she was in a good mood I'd get the reference I deserved but if someone called when she was in a down mood she'd make me out to be the worst employee ever (I heard her do that to one of my co-workers) and I just couldn't take that chance.
    Last edited by Soul Rebel; 08-05-2012 at 02:59 AM.
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