Rachel Dolezal...let's talk about it

[Napia Mia]

DeBe wrote: The pictures of her as a pale, blonde, straight, fine/thin haired youngster, leaves no room for doubt. Her Caucasian parents also look total white an claim to be just that.

DeBe





^I guess. In the beginning, I was not totally convinced just because her parents were saying it. You know what they say, Mamma's Baby Poppa's Maybe! I was thinking that he might think she's his daughter or that both knew and did not want it publicized. Then the fact that a lot of biracial people of black and white heritage and light complected black people tend to 'darken' as they get older, had me like, hmmmmm (?). I was not convinced that she was not white, nor was I convinced that she was not of African heritage either. However, I regress, the change is too dominant. Who knows? She may be doing what some man did in the 50s to see what it was like to be black and then he wrote the book Black Like Me. Maybe that's her angle.

Hahaha... I remember reading that book.

[Napia Mia]

Well, my room mate in graduate school looked like a white girl with a tan. Hair and all. Saw pictures of her and her little brother in her photo album one day and I asked her "Who are those little white kids?" She was like, "Girl, that's me and my older brother." And her tone was like it was a question that had NEVER been posed to her before. I was so baffled that I asked her if anyone in her immediate family was white and she told me, "Not that I know of." Alrighty then. I didn't question her any more cause I didn't want to be any more rude about it, however, genuine my curiosity might be.

I'm saying that because when I saw Dolezal's picture, she reminded me so much of my room mate. I know too many fair skinned black folks that could easily pass as white. I have history of it in my own family, so it wasn't far fetched to me that Dolezal could possibly be black.

[Karibana]

[Scribetastic]

Interesting perspective.

Blacks will often go in on another black person because someone is perceived as not being black enough. I actually think it's one of the many awful side effects of living in a racist society.

So imagine you're white and you're at an HBCU to learn and pursue your interest in black culture. I can imagine how hard it was for her. Tim Wise articulated it pretty well. (He's a white man who has made a career of speaking on issues regarding race, so he's been through it too.) I can see it being easier to take on a black identity in that situation. I just think she should have taken the high road and did the hard work.

As a people blacks are very welcoming and open. The story of her being a white woman with a mixed family who grew to understand and truly empathize with black issues would have been much more interesting than web of lies she chose to construct.

She lied. Full stop. That's really unfortunate.

[chachadiva]

One positive with the tragedy in Charleston is pushing this story off the media radar. I realize it brought some deep questions about racial hierarchy, cultural appropriations, racial cosplay etc but at the end of the day, this was, at best, in the bizarro section of newspapers.

Really? Putting Rachel aside, I though it brought up great questions about the idea of being "trans."

I was listening to a psychologist who was of the opinion that there could be something as being "trans-race." She brought up some good points. Race like gender is basically a social construct. A person is whatever they believe that they are. The physical attributes can be brought about with surgery. Not having lived the "cultural history" of the new race isn't critical. In a world where transgenderism is allowable, so should all other states of being "trans."

Am I really the only Black person who could see this as being a "thing?"

[Soul Rebel]

I see that definition of trans racial – instead of the current real one that exists – as something that white people could potentially push. Sure. To me it's another step in the long line of white privilege and white imperialism. Needless to say I could not disagree more with people who say this is a non-issue. LOL

[Soul Rebel]

Werd. She could have just been a great white ally and left it at that. Instead she had to do the most.

Blacks will often go in on another black person because someone is perceived as not being black enough. I actually think it's one of the many awful side effects of living in a racist society. So imagine you're white and you're at an HBCU to learn and pursue your interest in black culture. I can imagine how hard it was for her. Tim Wise articulated it pretty well. (He's a white man who has made a career of speaking on issues regarding race, so he's been through it too.) I can see it being easier to take on a black identity in that situation. I just think she should have taken the high road and did the hard work. As a people blacks are very welcoming and open. The story of her being a white woman with a mixed family who grew to understand and truly empathize with black issues would have been much more interesting than web of lies she chose to construct. She lied. Full stop. That's really unfortunate.

[Karibana]

Really? Putting Rachel aside, I though it brought up great questions about the idea of being "trans."

I was listening to a psychologist who was of the opinion that there could be something as being "trans-race." She brought up some good points. Race like gender is basically a social construct. A person is whatever they believe that they are. The physical attributes can be brought about with surgery. Not having lived the "cultural history" of the new race isn't critical. In a world where transgenderism is allowable, so should all other states of being "trans."

Am I really the only Black person who could see this as being a "thing?"

As Jay Smooth says in his video (and it's something I've felt from the beginning), Rachel Dolezal is the wrong foundation to start such a discussion because her identity was based on deception and to me it taints the conversation.

Also, I think one can identify with black culture, like many white people, with no need to take it to the hair and makeup as she did. This takes it to the level of cosplaying IMO, a role she can abandon should it be inconvenient. A transperson can't just go back once the surgery is done.

I also think the comparison to being trans is an underhanded way to belittle and dismiss the nature the transgender identity. It's as if it's saying: since gender isn't a thing anyway, your identity isn't real.

[DeBe]

DeBe wrote: The pictures of her as a pale, blonde, straight, fine/thin haired youngster, leaves no room for doubt. Her Caucasian parents also look total white an claim to be just that.

DeBe

^I guess. In the beginning, I was not totally convinced just because her parents were saying it. You know what they say, Mamma's Baby Poppa's Maybe! I was thinking that he might think she's his daughter or that both knew and did not want it publicized. Then the fact that a lot of biracial people of black and white heritage and light complected black people tend to 'darken' as they get older, had me like, hmmmmm (?). I was not convinced that she was not white, nor was I convinced that she was not of African heritage either. However, I regress, the change is too dominant. Who knows? She may be doing what some man did in the 50s to see what it was like to be black and then he wrote the book Black Like Me. Maybe that's her angle.

I get the potential cuckoo in the nest situation with any child, but I have to assume that anyone questioning her genetic heritage hasn't seen you younger photos. I'm black and grown so I know all the stuff about colour variation through age and what not. NP is a primarily black site so I didn't feel a need to add all the standard caveats I'd consider adding if it it was a predominantly white site.





From the first two pics I can see why she would be accepted as mixed, but who would look at her younger picture and question if she's white?

It also makes it clear that her deception was deliberate. I'm amazed at those who think it's ok for a white person to put on blackface to claim a prominent place at our table. She lay claim to a prominent position by claiming a history and experience that is not her own. This woman was/is parasiting off OUR distress for HER gain.

DeBe

[DeBe]

To misquote W Kamau Bell: that nose and that name doe?

Oh no, you didn't mention her nose!

DeBe