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  1. #1
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    The mother of a friend (she is black) basically told me that more blacks choose to major in Social Sciences (i.e. Political Science, Sociology, etc.) because it's easy and does not require the amount of abstract thinking and rigor as the hard sciences (i.e. Physics, Chemistry, Engineering). To her, it's not a matter of blacks not having the intelligence to pursue math and science majors, but she states that blacks are encouraged to major in Social Sciences, and that blacks are discouraged from pursuing scientific majors because blacks who are hold scientific and mathematical knowledge pose a threat. She also stated that even when blacks major in Social Sciences, they are still uneducated and unprepared to address and solve the problems that face the black race.

    Do you agree or disagree?

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    I think that more people in general choose soft over hard sciences. If anything, as a group, I've seen more blacks in hard sciences (not counting Asian Americans). Look at the HBCU's - the majority of the major ones specialize in hard sciences and mathematics.

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    Well, my first major was pre-med....keep in mind that I hated chemistry, biology, and all of that stuff. I wasn't realistic going into college in regards to what my talents were and what subjects I did best in. I think some people, myself included, get caught up in the idea of being a doctor or the idea of being and engineer but don't think about the work it will take, as well as a passion for working with math and science on a daily basis. In addition to that, my high school didn't really prepare me for this type of major. We had one teacher who taught all of the sciences, and she was young and trying to be cool. Needless to say I did get an A, but I didn't know anything.

    I went into college with an unrealistic major FOR ME. I don't know how many kids came into school with me that said "I'm pre-med" or "I am a comp-sci major" and flunked out. I switched at a point when I realized that I couldn't really do the work. I had tutors and still made D's and F's on my chemistry tests. I realized that it was gonna be a WHOLE lot harder before I even began to "get it". I made the switch to social work because I've always had a passion for helping people and fighting injustice. I really enjoy where I'm at. I got my master's a few years ago and am currently working with the preK-5 population in a school setting.

    Is the major rigorous? Nope, I'm the bomb at analyzing vignettes and can whip out an 'A' paper overnight (although research and stats did try to take me out!). In my career, though, I feel that it's just as challenging and rigorous as any of the "hard" professions because I am dealing with people's lives and where they're gonna sleep at night, whether or not they will have utilities in their home, abused children....NOT some computer program or equation (not trying to be snippy...just honest). I view my job as just as important and challenging as any of those "hard" scientists....after all, if I, and others in the soft sciences, aren't doing their jobs to the best of their abilities...you wouldn't have people who are sound enough to do the "hard" sciences. If they didn't have people like us in their lives planting those seeds and helping them survive on a daily basis, some probably wouldn't have the confidence to complete a college application to get into college. Am I getting rich? No. Am I making the kind of money I would have made in a "hard" science job? Nope...that's okay too. I'm not a person who's defined by "stuff" anyway, so it's cool. I'm able to pay bills, shop, and save a little something too so I'm cool. Plus, it doesn't hurt that I'm married to a "hard" science computer geek :lol:

    She also stated that even when blacks major in Social Sciences, they are still uneducated and unprepared to address and solve the problems that face the black race.

    With regard to this statement, I can't speak for other black people in the soft sciences, but I would say that this isn't true for me. I grew up facing those "problems"...poverty, single mom, mom without a high school education, the list goes on and on...anyway, I've lived it, been there, done it, and could probably write a book on it, so I consider myself pretty well versed on that topic. I don't think it's a hard sciences or soft sciences issue....but, if you really wanna go there, the people who are out in the field doing the research and interviewing people...those are soft scientists...psychologists, social workers, anthropologists, sociologists, etc. We are the ones on the front lines TELLING everyone what the deal is. The majority of books written and research conducted on this topic is by us soft folks. The reason why the problems of the black race haven't been solved is because it's systemic and an epidemic...it's not something that I can fix myself as a social worker with a magic wand. It has to do with policy, social boundaries, and all of those things that seem to keep people running on the treadmill of life instead of running on the road of life. It's going to take all of us...hard scientists, soft scientists, non scientists, and everyone in between to get out there and do the work to make it happen. No amount of fingerpointing is going to change it...it's going to require action on all of our part.

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    Lots of people view the social sciences as less important than the "hard" sciences, look at where the research funding and the higher salaries go...but, as stated earlier, the societal focus is on hard sciences, but our schools in general do a crappy job of preparing students to go into the science field....I am a social science person all the way, but I had an interest in science, especially environmental science, but I was not prepared well enough to take the courses needed to pursue environmental science. On the other hand I was really good at writing and reading, so I was pushed in that direction. My son, on the other hand, while a wonderful reader, loves science and is really good at math, but because his teacher focuses on writing, which is more difficult for him, he struggles. Our schools need to do a better job at preparing "our" children especially, for science careers.

    Now as long as we have social problems that need to be addressed (which, as long as our society is run by people, not computers, we will) social scientists will be needed. Science to me is harder cause I am not really a science and math person. But I have heard science and math people stress over writing long papers and having to work with people on various issues. Some folks are good at both. I don't feel there is a need to devalue something, but I realize that it happens anyway.

    One last thing. I don't have data to support this ( I have seen it, but I can't be exact with my nunbers) but Black college educated folk tend to go where the money is, like bussiness, engineering, law, etc. We really don't get a lot of teachers cause there is not a lot of money in the field. Some say that the less talented folk go into teaching, but I disagree there...now for PHD's most of us get them in education....maybe one reason is that ambitious Blacks in education realize that the only way to advance in that field is to get higher degrees...whereas in other fields, ambitious Blacks can advance within their fields without high degrees (once you have an MBA, you don't really need anything else to move up but success at work)....

  5. #5
    mahsoul1 is offline Active Nappturality Member
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    IA with Libraising.

    I was a hard-science major and I went to two HBCUs where some of the biggest departments were the science departments. At Xavier Univ of La, the majority of the students there were bio/chem or pharm majors because the school is known for being number one in the number of Af-am students that go on to medical and graduate school.

    I transferred to Howard and continued my major in Bio. Lots of my fellow students were encouraged by family, teachers, counselors to major in these areas if you liked the fields and had the apptitude to go for it. Then again, there were some who were pushed in to hard science majors by parents who wanted a doctor or engineer in the family. But I never got the impression from being at these two schools that hard science wasnt for black students which I guess is because I went to HBCUs with a strong focus on increasing the number of black professionals in medicine ,academic science, physics and engineering.

    The job of solving "the problems of the black race" does not belong to any one group..that is something we all have to be inclined to do. And as for those in social sciences being uneducated, thats a gross generalization lol.
    "I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that. So are we all"
    ~James A. Baldwin

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    Is the major rigorous? Nope, I'm the bomb at analyzing vignettes and can whip out an 'A' paper overnight (although research and stats did try to take me out!). In my career, though, I feel that it's just as challenging and rigorous as any of the "hard" professions because I am dealing with people's lives and where they're gonna sleep at night, whether or not they will have utilities in their home, abused children....NOT some computer program or equation (not trying to be snippy...just honest). I view my job as just as important and challenging as any of those "hard" scientists....after all, if I, and others in the soft sciences, aren't doing their jobs to the best of their abilities...you wouldn't have people who are sound enough to do the "hard" sciences. If they didn't have people like us in their lives planting those seeds and helping them survive on a daily basis, some probably wouldn't have the confidence to complete a college application to get into college. Am I getting rich? No. Am I making the kind of money I would have made in a "hard" science job? Nope...that's okay too. I'm not a person who's defined by "stuff" anyway, so it's cool. I'm able to pay bills, shop, and save a little something too so I'm cool. Plus, it doesn't hurt that I'm married to a "hard" science computer geek :lol:

    She also stated that even when blacks major in Social Sciences, they are still uneducated and unprepared to address and solve the problems that face the black race.

    With regard to this statement, I can't speak for other black people in the soft sciences, but I would say that this isn't true for me. I grew up facing those "problems"...poverty, single mom, mom without a high school education, the list goes on and on...anyway, I've lived it, been there, done it, and could probably write a book on it, so I consider myself pretty well versed on that topic. I don't think it's a hard sciences or soft sciences issue....but, if you really wanna go there, the people who are out in the field doing the research and interviewing people...those are soft scientists...psychologists, social workers, anthropologists, sociologists, etc. We are the ones on the front lines TELLING everyone what the deal is. The majority of books written and research conducted on this topic is by us soft folks. The reason why the problems of the black race haven't been solved is because it's systemic and an epidemic...it's not something that I can fix myself as a social worker with a magic wand. It has to do with policy, social boundaries, and all of those things that seem to keep people running on the treadmill of life instead of running on the road of life. It's going to take all of us...hard scientists, soft scientists, non scientists, and everyone in between to get out there and do the work to make it happen. No amount of fingerpointing is going to change it...it's going to require action on all of our part.
    [/b]
    :smil3f72836ee752e: :soapbox: Preach it Sister Girl! I totally agree.
    By the way, I did the same that as you. I started college by majoring in Engineering, knowing good and well that my interests lie more in the social science area.

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    Thanks everyone for your input.

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    I went into college pre-med (biology major). I changed not because it was too challenging or difficult, but because I truly felt I lacked a firm grounding in the humanities and the social fabric of Western society. I mean I could count and do well in math, but I felt I lacked knowledge of the classics and history. I was seeking a classical education. I floated through the German department, the classics department (took Latin) and sociology before deciding to double major in English and philosophy.

    Also, my goals did shift, and I decided to go to law school instead of med school. I looked at the skill set needed to get admission and be successful. I felt knowing my way around debate and logic as well as mastering how to write well was my ticket in.

    I actually had a Latino classmate who was also pre-med try to call me out and accused me of being lazy for changing my major. I pointed out that while the hard sciences are more rigourous in many ways, there are very few people that have mastered the English language. That was my goal, and I stood by it. My philosophy department is known for analytical philosophy which is logic, so I didn't escape rigor at all. In fact, I excelled in my logic courses. I got so arrogant that I could finish exams in minutes and always made quite the exit leaving while all the white kids were still struggling.

    I have friends that did go into medical programs and got out. I do think we should direct more of our kids to the hard sciences, but that needs to start early. Ultimately, it will still be their choice when it comes time to declare a major. I know I would have stuck with it if I felt my education base was stronger, but I feared I would have been playing catch up to my white peers who would be able to pull from a broader base of knowledge. Now I can floor just about any person near me who challenges me in terms of knowledge. That was on of my goals because where I am now (abroad dealing with folks from all over) I have white guys trying to challenge me constantly because they come at me with the assumption that I'm less than intellectually. In contrast, I have Koreans who tend to value education who hire me and put me in positions of authority over white men a few times (a few feathers have been ruffled due to that).

    The result is I'm educated, strong and confident. I also have a network of people who seem to truly admire me. I can call on whenever I need their support. Honestly, I felt great when I decided to go back to get my master's because I emailed two law school professors who immediately said "yes" to writing me letters five years after I'd graduated. I took a sneak peek at one after I was admitted as the secretary accidently left my file open, and I was happy to read what he said. A lot of students make such a nominal impact on their professors that they're not even remembered.

    With that said, I do agree that maybe some go into the humanities and social sciences with less noble goals (money, money, money...) But some of the people I know that went after the dollar are doing well financially and are turning around and helping in the community.

    However, I remember having a discussion with a friend of mine (she's black and has a law degree too). I remember saying that I really wasn't aware of all of my options. I went to counselors, but I came away feeling that they discouraged me (I was an ambitious kid). Eventually, I stopped going and just collected information on my own to figure out what the requirements were. But I look back and I realize that I had no idea about what other majors like communications taught or the career options. So, I think we need to not just feed "doctor" or "lawyer" to our kids. I admit, as the first college grad of my family, that was what I was fed because that's all my family knew. There are so many varied careers out there and we need to be represented not only in the sciences but we need more numbers across the spectrum. I think educating kids about the range of things to study is key.
    "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." - Chinese Proverb

    "Fall seven times a day, stand up eight." - Japanese Proverb

    “All truth is good, but not all truth is good to say.” - African Proverb

  9. #9
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    Well said 4mrcreamyuser!!

    This may be related or not, but...

    ITA!! I am a social work major too, but with a concentration in Domestic Violence. I LOVE my field, but it took me going to school with no direction, flunking out completely, 4 yrs at a job I HATED, and volunteering at a local DV shelter to realize that I love working there and could do it for the rest of my life. :wub:

    For me going to school to study "hard" sciences would have been a waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do in life anyway.

    Q

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    Wow rkwalton, your story is so inspiring!

    The lady who inspired this post has always told me "You're too smart to major in Political Science" or "Why don't you major in something more practical?", for some reason she seems to think that only "lazy" or unintelligent individuals major in the social sciences. I guess this is due to the fact that her son (my friend) is majoring in Computer Engineering and all of her other children are studying Chemistry, Biology or Engineering with plans of eventually going to medical school or getting advanced degrees in engineering.

    I think we definitely do need more blacks in the engineering and hard sciences, but like another poster said, that preparation and interest has to start early. One of the million things that really pissed me off at my old high school (which is prodominately black with mostly black staff and faculty) was that many of the teachers and counselors, both black and white, purposely tried to stir black kids away from the science and engineering fields, and offered AP science and math courses which functioned like remedial science and math courses. They insulted the intelligence of the students who really wanted to pursue math and science fields in college. Of course, my whole high school was a joke, but that's another story. When I intitally entered my freshman year of college as a Computational Physics major, I wanted to prove them wrong. But because I was going to be the only black Physics major in department, and the Physics Department was fully aware of this, I didn't want to play catch up. I figured that if I was going to be a Physics Major, I was going to be the best major or no Physics major at all, because as a minority, I can't afford to be anything less than the best. In Political Science, I am one of the best, if not the best Political Science major in the department, and I'm making really good grades.

    So I agree with her to the extent that sometimes blacks are disencouraged from majoring in certain fields, because that was my experience in high school. But I think the Humanities and Social Science fields are just as important as the Hard Sciences, but it seems like alot of people are driven by both prestige and money that particular fields hold (i.e. engineering, medicine, etc.).

    Wow, some of you make me want to look into pursuing a career in social work!




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