What do you think of the Islamic hijab for women?

Alas1119 · 03-02-2003, 04:26 AM

I'm talking about the headcovering and modest dress required for Islamic women. Do you think it's a sign of oppression? Or do you think it's liberating for Muslim women since the focus is away from their sexuality?

afrikankween · 03-02-2003, 01:16 PM

I can see both side of the coin. Sometimes I think people equate hijab to the Taliban type rule over women. I dont know all the laws to Islamic hijab, but I do think some women could take heed to dresssing more conservative. A lot of black women are getting looser and looser with they respect their bodies.

LotsOfLocs · 03-02-2003, 03:46 PM

If the hijab philosophy was thought of by women and imposed by women it is cool. But if I a man started it , I'm not cool with it.

LBellatrix · 03-02-2003, 05:24 PM

Until I read an article in the Chicago Tribune titled, "In Praise of the Veil," in which local Muslim women of many different nationalities (one was African-American, one was white, the rest were East Asian or Middle Eastern) discussed why they wear hijab, I was pretty much skeptical/scornful, the way I tend to be with any religious practice that requires me, as a woman, to "decrease" so that a man can "increase." (I love that quote...)

After reading that article, I got a new perspective and understanding of it. I still don't agree with some of the reasoning behind it, and I would never be part of any religion or culture that REQUIRED me to wear it, but I understand better why some women like/prefer to wear it and I respect their choice to do so.

The article is in the Tribune's archives; you have to pay to see it.

Midoria · 03-02-2003, 11:58 PM

Well, I know that hijab is NOT a requirement. Some countries choose to enforce it as law (Saudi Arabia) but I know the Koran says that everyone should dress modestly. It doesn't give specifics. I know men can't enter the Islamic Center near me with their arms or legs showing, and most of them wear a Kufi.

Most of my Muslim friends don't cover their heads, but they don't show their bare arms or legs either. A lot of them wear a nice shell and a sheer/silk shirt in the summer and other things like that. I have yet to see any of their dads or husbands wearing shorts. So I can't say it's one-sided.

NaturalSerenitee · 03-03-2003, 01:06 AM

As a feminist, I am not feeling the hijab. Why is it in all the major religions, women are always required to cover themselves to assist men in controlling their lust? Brings it right back to "it's the woman's fault" IMO. Trust me, there are women who command plenty of respect in all arenas without resorting to veiling or otherwise hiding themselves.

Alas1119 · 03-03-2003, 02:10 AM

As a feminist, I am not feeling the hijab. Why is it in all the major religions, women are always required to cover themselves to assist men in controlling their lust? Brings it right back to "it's the woman's fault" IMO. Trust me, there are women who command plenty of respect in all arenas without resorting to veiling or otherwise hiding themselves.

Not to offend anyone, but this is my take on the matter. Women having to cover their heads to hide their beautiful hair. Women having to shroud their bodies in loose, shapeless clothing so men can't leer at their form. Women having to sit in back of the mosque (and synogogue for Jews) so that men won't be distracted by their backsides during prayer. Women having to avert their gaze downward to maintain their modesty - I see these all as ways to control and blame women for male lust. Why can't men be responsible for controlling their own sexual impulses???

I'll never forget last summer which was a particularly hot and humid one here in New York City. In the parking lot of the supermarket was a Muslim family. The wife was covered from head to toe in a black abaya with only eyes showing. The husband was wearing khaki shorts and a short sleeved button down shirt. Just looking at that woman made me sweat more! It seemed so unfair to me.

lovinblackness · 03-03-2003, 03:19 AM

Well, I wasn't going to reply to this thread until I read the last comment.

It seems that many of you are taking a look at things (not just in this thread but there was another in a diff. part of the board on women in Arabia) and making all kinds of assumptions.

How do you know how that women was feeling? Perhaps she would not be the slightest bit interested in your sympathy. Indeed according to her value system she might well be feeling sorry for you. After all, that is what this is really all about, differing value systems and her freedom to choose to follow the law of God according to how SHE understands it. Why is that less valuable than your freedom to choose to adhere to your own spiritual or religious values w/o being patronized?

Not every Muslim woman chooses to wear all black and be completely covered in public. However, those who do so deserve the same respect as anyone else. My husband never wears shorts because the Prophet didn't dress that way and he feels that it is not suffeciently modest. All the Muslim women I know are Muslim because at some point in their lives they chose to be, even those who were born in Muslim families. They adhere to the laws of their religion according to their own closeness to God and their own understanding of what those laws require.

No one forced me to cover, and if you ever saw me in all black, at any time of year it would be because that is what I felt like wearing. I see all kinds of folks who make decisions that I believe are disrespectful to their value as human beings and ultimately harmful to them and/or society. I'm not here to impose my values on them nor to 'save' those who aren't asking for my help. Along those same lines, I'm not interested in being 'saved' by someone else's interpretation of feminism or how I should live my life.

Are their Muslim women who are oppressed? Absolutely. Are there Muslims who attempt to use Islamic law as a tool of oppression? Sure enough. Are there athiests, agnostic, jewish, christian, pagan, hindu... women who are oppressed, who are forced by law or culture to do things or for that matter NOT to do things that they feel they are entitled to do. Absolutely. And?

The fact that their exists oppressors among us does not mean that the system is inherently oppressive. Islam exists on a well-thought out system of balance. Islamic modesty encompasses, dress, speech, mannerisms and it is by the order of Islam's primary source of law, The Qur'an, equally encumbant upon men and women. The qur'an makes it very clear, in several verses, that each man and each woman is responsible for their own actions and 'no soul can carry the burden of another'.

I highly recommend the Book 'Re-thinking Western Feminism'. Just as the feminism of middle-class white American and European women can not address and historically has failed to address the specific needs of oppressed black and brown peoples, attempts to 'liberate' Muslim women by imposing western value systems that we neither want nor desire is simply another form of imperialism. It will fail everytime. Check out the womanist movement of third wave young women who are dissapointed in the lack of feminist interest in their needs or even go back as far as the famous "A'int I a Woman" Speech by Sojourner Truth.

I have been an active feminist since 9th grade. Indeed it was Susan Brownmiller's book, 'Femininity' that convinced me to wear hijab. Perhaps my feminism does not look like yours? Feminism is bigger than one person's view of how to live well.

The world is larger and more complex than CNN's coverage. Iran currently has a female vice president. Pakistan has had a female president several times. Egyptian women entire math and science professions and more than double the number of American women. Indeed, in my immediate circle of Muslim friends (all of whom wear hijab) I can think of:

A prison Nurse
A hospital administrator
Two International Aide workers (nurses)
A medical school student
A pediatrician
A family practice Doctor
Several Teachers
An engineer
A computer Programmer...

Not one of these women was forced to wear hijab, indeed a few had to fight their families and communities in order to wear it. To discount and patronize us because we do not dress as you do, and do not value the same things or in the same ways is to detract from the power of the feminisms premise: freedom to choose. It is ultimately harmful to us all.

Alas1119 · 03-03-2003, 09:31 PM

Well, I wasn't going to reply to this thread until I read the last comment.

It seems that many of you are taking a look at things (not just in this thread but there was another in a diff. part of the board on women in Arabia) and making all kinds of assumptions.

How do you know how that women was feeling? Perhaps she would not be the slightest bit interested in your sympathy. Indeed according to her value system she might well be feeling sorry for you. After all, that is what this is really all about, differing value systems and her freedom to choose to follow the law of God according to how SHE understands it. Why is that less valuable than your freedom to choose to adhere to your own spiritual or religious values w/o being patronized?

Not every Muslim woman chooses to wear all black and be completely covered in public. However, those who do so deserve the same respect as anyone else. My husband never wears shorts because the Prophet didn't dress that way and he feels that it is not suffeciently modest. All the Muslim women I know are Muslim because at some point in their lives they chose to be, even those who were born in Muslim families. They adhere to the laws of their religion according to their own closeness to God and their own understanding of what those laws require.

No one forced me to cover, and if you ever saw me in all black, at any time of year it would be because that is what I felt like wearing....

Not one of these women was forced to wear hijab, indeed a few had to fight their families and communities in order to wear it. To discount and patronize us because we do not dress as you do, and do not value the same things or in the same ways is to detract from the power of the feminisms premise: freedom to choose. It is ultimately harmful to us all.

I never said that I feel sorry for that woman. She doesn't need my sympathy. But it did seem patently unfair to me that she's walking around in an all black covering with only her eyes showing in 95 degree weather/95 percent humidity. And her husband is strolling around with light colored short sleeve shirt and shorts staying as cool as possible. If that's her choice, fine for her. But a lot of these middle eastern Muslim women don't have a choice because their husbands are their lord and master and dictate to them what they have to do.

And I have no problem with people and their differing value systems. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

It's great that you chose to wear hijab. Thank God you weren't forced to do so. However the principles of Islamic modesty don't seem to work equally in both directions from my viewpoint. It seems that women have much more of a burden to be modest than men do. I don't see why men don't have to be covered from head to toe. That's my opinion.

And you're right, in many religions - Judaism, Hindu, Christian, etc. women are oppressed. But I see the common thread in all of them as MEN imposing these standards and rules for women. And many times, these harsh rules are contradictory to the teachings of the religion. I have a problem with that too.

Another problem I have (and I mentioned this before) is the fact that women always have to be responsible for men's sexuality and their lustful impulses. Religions have always imposed this burden upon women and I don't like it.

Midoria · 03-03-2003, 11:24 PM

Alas, just curious.

What culture isn't male dominated? What major world religion doesn't favor men or use a male as their centerpiece? Religion is a human concept. Why is it so shocking that most religions favor men?

The principles of modesty are very equal in Islam. They are not enforced equally, and that's where the problem lies.