The Gentrification Of Harlem

**librarising** · 09-05-2006, 04:16 PM

Forget buying in NYC. I'm trying to get in on buying some property in the 'hood parts of North Jersey (i.e. Newark, Irvington, Paterson). That'll be gentrified soon enough from the trickle down NYCers. I suspect the "trickle up" NYCers will head to areas like Newburgh, NY soon.

**Sweet Epiphany** · 09-05-2006, 04:56 PM

Slighty off topic:

I think that owning a home in NYC is do-able. I really do. I just think that people need to expand beyond the chi-chi trendy neighborhoods (Park Slope, Fort Greene, Williamsburg, Bed-Stuy, etc) as they are already tapped out. If I'm to move back to NY, I will most likely buy in flatbush (the whites having been moving into the central parts of brooklyn I find), east flatbush. I'd also look into ex "two fare zones" (neighborhoods where you have to take a bus to connect to the train) like Mill Basin, Flatlands and parts of Canarsie.

**GalaxyGirl2012** · 09-05-2006, 06:12 PM

Slighty off topic:

I think that owning a home in NYC is do-able. I really do. I just think that people need to expand beyond the chi-chi trendy neighborhoods (Park Slope, Fort Greene, Williamsburg, Bed-Stuy, etc) as they are already tapped out. If I'm to move back to NY, I will most likely buy in flatbush (the whites having been moving into the central parts of brooklyn I find), east flatbush. I'd also look into ex "two fare zones" (neighborhoods where you have to take a bus to connect to the train) like Mill Basin, Flatlands and parts of Canarsie.
[/b]

i'm personally not willing to buy anything or rent anything that's more than 30 minutes commute from where i work or where i hang out the majority of time. so for me that's "chi chi trendy" neighborhoods like park slope,clinton hill and fort greene. subway access is also a very big consideration for me a well. i wouldnt want to be way out in the boonies with sketchy train service. thats why i didnt look at williamsburg or greenpoint.

and just keep in mind that in the ny area any parts of town that are seen as non trendy will eventually become chichi trendy. just look at astoria. i figure if i dodnt want to live someplace cool in the first place with lots of thoings to do i would have just stayed in cincinnati which is very un chichi and very untrendy and cheap real estate.

**Sweet Epiphany** · 09-05-2006, 08:29 PM

and just keep in mind that in the ny area any parts of town that are seen as non trendy will eventually become chichi trendy. just look at astoria. i figure if i dodnt want to live someplace cool in the first place with lots of thoings to do i would have just stayed in cincinnati which is very un chichi and very untrendy and cheap real estate.
[/b]

I mean, people are free to do what they want. I wasn't making a judgement either way. If you want you're chi chi neighborhood, then so be it. And your point about non chi chi neighborhoods eventually becoming trendy is not hard and fast. Although I wouldn't say there's an equilibrium of sorts,there are neighborhoods all over the city that are plain ol residential neighborhoods with a strong influx of blacks and other immigrants that are just, well, straight up residential...little to no frills. Again, one can just look at Mill Basin, Flatlands, Canarsie, East Flatbush for instance. So astoria, while a good example, I wouldn't say it's the rule. There are plenty of exceptions.

E.T.A: damn...my grammar was atrocious, sorry about that... :blush:

**Ebonique** · 09-05-2006, 10:18 PM

All of NYC is chi chi... :lol:

I doubt that the regentrified areas of harlem, fort greene, bed-stuy will ever become "hood" again in the foreseeable future. Way too much millions of dollars have been invested by the gov't, developers, corporations and individual homebuyers to let it backslide. NYC is one of those markets that always remains hot compared to other parts of the country. Demand is always greater than supply simply 'cause everyone wants to live here.

Moving to a 2 fare zone is not an option for me. I grew up in Queens near Kennedy Airport which is a two fare zone and remember the hassle traveling on the subway from Manhattan and then having to wait for the bus. And most of the private bus lines out there don't run buses 24 hours so if you were coming home after midnight your only option was to take a cab. I was too happy when my family left and moved to Rego Park. Even being near the subway there, I still had a 1.5 hour commute one way to my job in the bronx. Even happier when I moved to Harlem it cut my commute time in half. If I were ever to leave Manhattan and say go back to Queens, I would definitely be driving to work 'cause there's no way I would go back to spending 3-4 hours/day commuting on the subways again.

I'm a bit ambivalent about buying a house here. I'm noticing in certain neighborhoods, Queens particularly that have large one family homes, folks are buying them and converting them into multifamily dwellings via illegal apartments or developers are tearing them down and building multifamily houses in their place. I notice this a lot in immigrant neighborhoods. Suddenly a neighborhood that used to be population 10,000 now has a population of 50,000 because of increased density. You see the evidence in overcrowded schools, public transportation, dirtier streets, etc.

**Sweet Epiphany** · 09-06-2006, 06:05 AM

I really didn't have issues living in a two fare zone commuting to and from the city. Because I've lived in predominantly Carribean neighborhoods in NYC, I always had access to "dollar vans" if I was to impatient to wait for the bus, it was late at night or what have you. (speaking of which, are dollar vans still plentiful? I know that they are like 1.50 now). But I mean, yeah, travel can be a complete pain in the azz when one can't walk to the metro. And queens by the JFK airport....yeah, total different land to me, lol.

And dammit, not all of NYC is chi chi, lol! There are still cute, quaint little ethnic enclaves that are predominantly working-middle class. I refuse to beleive that the gentrifiers, hipsters, transplants, yuppies and buppies have gotten to every part of NYC, lol! :P (at least not yet)

**GalaxyGirl2012** · 09-06-2006, 07:15 AM

I really didn't have issues living in a two fare zone commuting to and from the city. Because I've lived in predominantly Carribean neighborhoods in NYC, I always had access to "dollar vans" if I was to impatient to wait for the bus, it was late at night or what have you. (speaking of which, are dollar vans still plentiful? I know that they are like 1.50 now). But I mean, yeah, travel can be a complete pain in the azz when one can't walk to the metro. And queens by the JFK airport....yeah, total different land to me, lol.

And dammit, not all of NYC is chi chi, lol! There are still cute, quaint little ethnic enclaves that are predominantly working-middle class. I refuse to beleive that the gentrifiers, hipsters, transplants, yuppies and buppies have gotten to every part of NYC, lol! :P (at least not yet)
[/b]

sweet ep - haven't you heard cute quaint ethnic enclaves are the new chi chi :lol:

i'm definitely a transplant and damned proud of it! oh man i think i might actually qualify as a hipster. i wear designer jeans and ironic t-shirts and know who death cab for cutey and clap your hands say yeah are... i also live in park slope. but then again i might also be lesbian because i also hear park slope referred to "dyke slope" :lol: i just love how people try to tell me who am i based on where i live.

dollar vans are very plentiful at least i see them alot in bk around fort greene. they come in pretty handy. although i admit i had to get over for ohio girl fear of getting into an unmarked van in the middle night. i used to fell like i should come with my own trash bags and rubber gloves to make my murder, clean up and removal of my body even more convenient for my killers.

**pacunurse30** · 09-06-2006, 08:50 AM

no laughing here. i'm expecting that to happen as well because i get the feeling that's what's happened to those condos that are behind the atlantic center/terminal in fortgreene. they look projecty to me. i mean come on i'm not from ny but all projects are all over the world have that same box look with grid lock design.. anyway i was surprised to see those were condo's but i guess some developper bought them and turned them into condos.
actually i think it's the same guy who's behind the entire redevelopment of that area niw
[/b]

Is Atlantic Center still going to be the area where they put the new Nets' stadium? If so, expect the real estate to get even more crazy in that area. And that area isn't too far from Bed Stuy, now that I think about it. ^_^ Those condos behind the center are owned by quite a few Black people. I used to go to church around there and I saw mostly our folk going in there. They were nice, but not worth the $$$ to me.

**deng** · 09-06-2006, 09:39 AM

I'm originally from NYC. I like the gentrification that has been going on for over 2 decades. I don't understand how people didn't see this coming. If you take the time to think about all those vacant lots and dilapidated buildings that was boarded up for all those years; it is because they've been bought. So anytime you come across a neighborhood that looks rough with a lot of boarded dilapidated buildings and gated vacant lots be prepared for a upscale community. I lived on 125th & 5th Avenue. My father still lives there. It is an old building that once was a hotel in the early 1900s or even earlier. They trying to get everyone out of the building so they can fix it and raise the rent. I had a friend come with me to East New York about 15 years ago (she lived in a mix community in canarsie). When she came near sutter, livonia, New lots, Alabama, and Williams street she was like oh my god! it is rough here. So bad and so sad. All these vacants lots. It is so many of them. "Why don't they do something with it". I told her they did they bought all these lots that is why they are gated. They will build something here but I don't know what. Damn I was right. 10 years later that whole area is filling up with new houses. Not condos, not apartment buildings, not brownstones but affordable houses. Blacks shouldn't complain because they had more than enough time to get themselves together and invest in their community and they chose not to. Black people been living in those communities for decades and didn't do anything with it- with the exception of the ambitious. I lived in bedford stuyvesant and it is getting better and better. I can remember in 1994/1995 they fixed McDonough Avenue right near the J train around the corner from Halsey between Saratoga & Thomas Boyland. I mean they renovated these buildings and they are spacious and beautiful. Laundry in building; security with intercom; large trash cans; parquet floors; everything was so nice. The opposite street they decided to make those into condos. It was so strange because they moved in a lot of low income people and the majority was on welfare with children in those buildings and within two years the buildings and block look like a war zone. I can't believe they destroyed that building. Even though they tried to be fair and keep low income, welfare, and middle class in the same community not to mention the same block they still destroyed it. The people that was making a good income left the building. People can't say that they are not being fair because they are. Many of the projects now are becoming condos. They already working on red hook; sethlow projects, and many others. A friend of my friend was offered to buy her apartment in the projects [redhook] now she is considering it because they are cleaning up the area and more investment is coming. It is sad that black people don't know their potentials. I don't find anything wrong with gentrification. I rather see this than predominately poor black communities. I left New York. I don't have no desires to live there. All my family is still there though. I plan to buy a house in Burkina Faso, Senegal, Niger, or Ghana when I save enough money. I have my sight on Africa. I hope all works out for me in the future.

**Ebonique** · 09-06-2006, 09:53 AM

We had dollar vans when I lived in Queens also, that's where they originally started. Folks was even using their own cars. :lol: But even with them, it was still a hassle getting around.

Those quaint ethnic enclaves are what's changing the quickest. Astoria is a prime example. So is Williamsburg/Greenpoint, Bed-Stuy and Harlem. Even areas like Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst and the Rockaways are transitioning too.

And yes GalaxyGirl, you are a bonafide hipster!! :lol: