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09-20-2006, 01:16 PM #1
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This is a bit long, but bear with me please.
Friend's daughter graduated highschool with 4.2, attends an upper-crust university and has struggled there, not only with the academics, but social setting. First day she walked into one class, a YT student said to her, "oh that's right, we have to have you here", meaning she's there due to affirmative action. Other students talked about their private school upbringings and years of family trips all over the world. To make a long story short, friend felt advisor in highschool didn't give her a heads-up on the real deal about college, and realizes that the importance of a high GPA may be important to get in a college, but is not required to get a degree.
Another friend's son graduated with 4.6 GPA, had all As his entire school life from kindergarten to highschool. Received a full academic scholarship to a state university, but came back home after end of the first semester. He said he was used to attention in school, i.e. award for Best Student, Student of the Month, name announced on the PA system, pats on the back etc. So when he got to college and found he was a social security number to the instructors, and that personal touch was no longer there, it was overwhelming.
Another young man went to community college after barely graduating highschool with a 2.3, transferred to state university, got Bachelors and Masters in 4 years, and now working on PhD. He feels that all that pressure put upon kids to get a high GPA in highschool is crap, he's got the same degrees, makes the same money, with less stress.
Thoughts/comments please
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09-20-2006, 01:31 PM #2Active Nappturality Member
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i think it depends on maturity, experiences, preparation, individual needs, background, money...just so many things.
personally, i wish i had not gone to college right out of h.s. i wish i took a year off. so when i went to college, iwasn't ready in so many ways.
just as four year college isn't right for everyone right out the gate, neither is community college. some people prefer a traditional college experience where they live on campus, go to sporting events, etc. some people might get a bit more lax attending community college.
also, when somebody chooses to go to a big school, you've got to know that you may be one of a hundred in a course. people aren't gonna know who you are. if somebody wants their professors to know their name they should go to a small school where they may be in courses where there are 10 students. a lot of times, state schools and huge private universities don't give you that.
things also get harder and more competitive as you progress in school. fifth grade was not nearly as challenging as 9th grade and 11th grade was easier than my junior year in college. you have to step up more and more with each progression. education, in some ways, is a weeding out process.
as far as affirmative action, those comments can happen anywhere but i never cared. they were never said to me. i had the grades andknew i was smart. who's to say they didn't get in on a white male affirmation program? historically, they've had a big one.
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09-20-2006, 04:08 PM #3Senior Napp
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I know someone who was valedictorian of my graduating high school class. She had a 4.0 GPA in high school and was considered to be "a genius", but her GPA is below a 3.0 in college and her standardized test scores were below average. Teachers pumped her head up, had her thinking that she was some math and science genius, and she has failed 200+ level biology and chemistry courses more than twice. I think it truly depends on the person, how they adapt to the college environment and life in general. Of course when you spent 4 years of high school doing busy mindnumbing busy work and you make straight A's, you can very well get the misconception that you know more than you actually do.
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09-21-2006, 09:34 AM #4Active Nappturality Member
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sometimes determined, hard-working C-average people are more of an asset to a company than easy A-average people.
i agree that how lucrative one's grades can be to her future is relative.
there are a lot of people who know their subject matter inside and out and who have achieved a's to prove it. but when asked to explain what they know so that others can understand it too, they fail miserably. or maybe they can't easily apply the mechanics of their "a" work to real-life jobs.
i work with a handful of scholastic doctors and experts in various academic fields. and when we are in conferences, i listen to them and look at the sloppy work they produce and the disorderly manner in which they head their departments and wonder how they got as far as they have in school. and then i see their BA or BS degree-holding staff practically running their departments for them.
ETA: i think that short-term memory plays a big role in why some people can do very well on tests. their brains can store formulas, dates, and facts and hold them there better than other people, who may have to read and re-read things over and over just to make a dent in their brain in the hopes that on test day, that repetition will help them recall something that will allow them get at least part of an answer correct. i was like that with advanced math, chemistry, and literary/historical dates and eras. but i have great strengths with writing (expressive, creative, etc.), speaking, explaining and demonstrating things to others, etc. i was an a-b average student most of my life. i was on the deans list in college a few semesters. my overall average in all my educational years would probably be in the high 80s or low 90s . . . a b average.
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09-21-2006, 10:43 AM #5Active Nappturality Member
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^^
they say "c" students run the world - from companies to governments.
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09-21-2006, 11:35 AM #6
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Honestly? It depends on the kid, the high school, and the college. Nobody prepares high achieving high school students for the fact that when they get to college, they are going to be in a place with thousands of kids who are just as smart. That means that you have to find another identity for yourself.
I know this is true because I went through it. I wouldn't trade my college experience for anything, but it's different going from high school where my teachers couldn't keep up with me so I was allowed to design my own projects and do my own thing to my college where it seemed like every class was sped up and I felt completely lost at times. I was fortunate because my college had great academic and personal support systems and I didn't have too much pride and assume I could deal with it on my own. Quite a few of the people that I entered with couldn't ask for help because they couldn't accept that they really needed it. Most of them didn't graduate. On the other hand, I saw brilliant people from my high school go on and thrive in college. I saw people who graduated at the top of my college class who were high achieving in high school and are high achieving now.
That said, I didn't graduate from high school with a 4.0 because I wasn't willing to forgo the things I loved (like music and theater) so that I could take all AP and honors classes. And I don't regret that. Being valedictorian doesn't mean anything at 19, let alone at 27. It probably would have improved my chances at some of the universities that I was waitlisted for instead of admitted to, but I doubt that would have significantly changed where I am today.Hair blog - http://beyondlocs.wordpress.com Updated January 16, 2011
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09-21-2006, 03:13 PM #7
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09-22-2006, 12:08 AM #8Senior Napp
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My experiece is the opposite, as I graduated HS w/ a 2.0 but have a 4.0 in my major and 3.78 overall gpa (have about 4 Bs) in my BA program.
One issue to consider is the change in how grades are calculated from HS to college.
In college, a semester length class can base grades on only two assignments(midterm&final, project&final), where if you don't do well on one, even an A on the other will not mean an A or B overall. Also, some instructors simply do not give out As, especially in science. Others have strange curves or unclear grading policy. If the kids feel overwhelmed, I'd recommend a semester or two at a local CC to acclimate themselves to college life and clear all possible lower div. work (weeder courses) with higher grades, before heading back or to a new school... they can always blame any low freshman grades on immaturity or lack of college readiness.
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09-22-2006, 11:20 AM #9
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My :2cents:
I was a teacher for five years. My last year of teaching, I taught 6th and 7th grade. Most of the kids in my classes were nowhere near preforming on grade level. So, the first 9 weeks, a lot of the students and parents had a rude awakening in my class. A lot of kids were failing in the middle of the quarter. Some parents took this as a wake-up call, but most parents took it as an opportunity to tell me how "Their child had A's in such and such's math class last year, so I must be the problem". I thought it was ridiculous for all these people to give me such a hard time, especially because I was teaching right from the book - I wasn't giving harder tests or making up more work. They didn't want to hear me talk about how their child wasn't doing their homework or studying, they just wanted to see that A.
I had a fellow (older) teacher tell me, "Girl, I don't fight with these parents. If they want their child to have an A, I give them an A." Of course, I didn't subscribe to that method of thinking. For the most part, the kids who wanted to do better got their butts in gear and took my class seriously because they saw I wasn't handing out grades. The lazy ones just sat there and took their F's quietly because I wasn't going to let them disrupt other's learning.
In this day and age, a lot of parents and students don't want to do what it takes to earn an A. A lot of these parents all believe their kids are geniuses when their kids don't really know jack (not saying this is the case with your friend). They don't want to hear anything except their darling little Johnny is doing a good job. Administrators and the government put pressure on teachers to have their students perform even though they come in the class way behind grade-level. So what most teachers do is resort to grade inflation. In some cases, children are so behind for so long, that the teacher gets jaded about what 'grade-level' really is, and she's just happy someone in the class can read, so they get an A.
Now dirty laundry is being aired because we are have more state-required standardized testing that kids can't hide behind because it's regulated by the state. Or like others have said, when you get to college, you see what the real deal is because you are now a little fish in a big pond. We have so many kids here in Florida who are "straight-A and/or honor students" who can't graduate college because they can't pass the state exam. But instead of parents realizing this means all those A's all those years didn't mean jack, they are mad because their child has to take a test that is REALLY showing them how much their child knows and is 'preventing' their child from going to college...God Bless!
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09-22-2006, 11:48 AM #10Active Nappturality Member
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Honestly? It depends on the kid, the high school, and the college. Nobody prepares high achieving high school students for the fact that when they get to college, they are going to be in a place with thousands of kids who are just as smart. That means that you have to find another identity for yourself.
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