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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Are they protraying a black person or what they think a black person looks like? Why not be a tribute to black culture band without the blackface, it's supposed to be about the music is it not? Do black people need to paint their faces white to play/sing Beethoven, Mozart or go to the Opera?
    In the past the country may not know about Afro American history but most places have universal free education, this is the digital information age, they can read and research, Google is their friend.
    Blackface has been used in Japan for many years. The reasons differ depending on the sitaution, but from what I've seen it is when a Japanese want to protray a black person. Mostly, the skin is painted brown and they have an afro. If a black person were to BE shakespear, than yes, unless that black person is very, very light skin, the skin needs to be whiten. Unless they are just protraying a "black" shakespear, but either way...

    So are you trying to tell me that just because there is info on the internet about Afro-American history, that the average Japanese would actually be interested enough to look it up. Really now. So since we have the internet, can you tell me some of the issues that you look up about Korean history? How about Botswana? How about Bhutan or Pakistan history. Why would the average Japanese care about black american history? Do you know about Japanese history? What makes black american history so special that everybody would want to learn about it? It may be a surprise to a lot of people, but most people care two-cents about black history, as much as most black americans could care two cents about Bhutan's.



    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Rosie was ignorant, was she actually speaking Japanese/Chinese? I doubt it. If a white person went around saying 'bulla bulla bulla' and said they are speaking 'African' we would consider them an idiot and rightly so.
    If people want to take the mickey out of a culture it won't kill them to ask someone from that culture whether what they have to say or do is considered culturally offensive.
    She was saying "Ching Chong" multiple time to impersonate Chinese language. It is (was) pretty common for people to say that whenever they make fun of Chinese language. She had no idea how offensive it was, which is true for a lot of americans. Until the backlash that occured after this incident a lot of people had no idea. Why did they have no idea? Well because most people DON'T take the time to research what is offensive to every ethic group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    If this was 20-30 years ago I would give them a pass, its now 2011, information is easily available about American culture if people are not too lazy to look it up.
    This is the typical american mindset that needs to diminish. That for some reason the United States is the center of the world and every country must learn about it yet when it comes to learning about another's culture there is no need for it. They see american history, or specfically for this thread, black american history as common knowledge that everyone should know. Sorry, it just don't work that way.

    How this for perspective. True account. A black american diplomat went to Ethiopia and a women greeted him and called him the n-word. He corrected her on it. Why do you think that happen? Black american music is played quite a lot in Ethiopia, and the women assumed that all black americans were called that. Does she know the historical context of that word? Nope, why would she? Hell I don't think it is too far out to say most Africans know little to none at all of black american history. Same as many black americans know little about countries or the over 2000 ethic groups in Africa. To the ethiopian women it is just a word. Here ia another perspective. In Japanese cartoons aim at children, it is not a surprise to see gay characters. In the United States, a openly gay character in a children show would offend many people and there would no doubt be backlash. Why should Japan care if American public are against gay characters in cartoons? Why should americans care that there are gay characters in Japan?

    Point being. Black Face and the Sambo image in America has been deemed extremely offensive to black people due to historical meaning. In many other countries that is not so due to the absense of historical meaning. Can't get more simpler than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Alright Kaichi. iCan't with you. You're just being willfully ignorant now.
    Come back and talk when you learn some cultural perspective.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaichi View Post
    Blackface has been used in Japan for many years. The reasons differ depending on the sitaution, but from what I've seen it is when a Japanese want to protray a black person. Mostly, the skin is painted brown and they have an afro. If a black person were to BE shakespear, than yes, unless that black person is very, very light skin, the skin needs to be whiten. Unless they are just protraying a "black" shakespear, but either way...

    So are you trying to tell me that just because there is info on the internet about Afro-American history, that the average Japanese would actually be interested enough to look it up. Really now. So since we have the internet, can you tell me some of the issues that you look up about Korean history? How about Botswana? How about Bhutan or Pakistan history. Why would the average Japanese care about black american history? Do you know about Japanese history? What makes black american history so special that everybody would want to learn about it? It may be a surprise to a lot of people, but most people care two-cents about black history, as much as most black americans could care two cents about Bhutan's.

    She was saying "Ching Chong" multiple time to impersonate Chinese language. It is (was) pretty common for people to say that whenever they make fun of Chinese language. She had no idea how offensive it was, which is true for a lot of americans. Until the backlash that occured after this incident a lot of people had no idea. Why did they have no idea? Well because most people DON'T take the time to research what is offensive to every ethic group.

    This is the typical american mindset that needs to diminish. That for some reason the United States is the center of the world and every country must learn about it yet when it comes to learning about another's culture there is no need for it. They see american history, or specfically for this thread, black american history as common knowledge that everyone should know. Sorry, it just don't work that way.

    How this for perspective. True account. A black american diplomat went to Ethiopia and a women greeted him and called him the n-word. He corrected her on it. Why do you think that happen? Black american music is played quite a lot in Ethiopia, and the women assumed that all black americans were called that. Does she know the historical context of that word? Nope, why would she? Hell I don't think it is too far out to say most Africans know little to none at all of black american history. Same as many black americans know little about countries or the over 2000 ethic groups in Africa. To the ethiopian women it is just a word. Here ia another perspective. In Japanese cartoons aim at children, it is not a surprise to see gay characters. In the United States, a openly gay character in a children show would offend many people and there would no doubt be backlash. Why should Japan care if American public are against gay characters in cartoons? Why should americans care that there are gay characters in Japan?

    Point being. Black Face and the Sambo image in America has been deemed extremely offensive to black people due to historical meaning. In many other countries that is not so due to the absense of historical meaning. Can't get more simpler than that..

    Do I expect the average Japanese to learn about black american history? (I am not a black american by the way). No and neither did my post refer to the average Japanese but to said musicians that the thread is about. Do I expect a Japanese tribute band who wants to dress up as black people and play 'black music' to know something of the culture they are imitating. Yes. And I would take the same stance if a group of black Americans wanted to play tribute to Japanese music.

    So according to your logic it would not be offensive for a black person to 'whiten up' in order to sing or play European classical music.... ok then. (My previous example re Mozart, Beethoven was not refering to playing a white character but playing their music).

    Going back to the Rosie example, all it takes its basic common sense to recognise there is a possiblity that when you take the mickey (since your intention is to make fun of and not to flatter) out of a language/accent, Chinese or otherwise it will be considered offensive to that ethnic group. Acting all clueless and giving a blank face does not wash. (But then common sense ain't too common.)

    As for the Ethopian woman in your example she also showed her ignorance. She based her whole perception of Black Americans on music. That is no different to we in Europe basing our entire perceptions of Americans on John Wayne movies or of Black Americans on 'Gone with the Wind' style films.
    Does she get a pass? Depends on her circumstances/background; uneducated Ethopian with not much contact with outside world and no resources to obtain contact? Yep. Educated, cosmopolitan Ethopian? No.

    Do I personally know about the history of Bhutan, Korea, Botswana, Pakistan? Not at all. (Do you?) But if I ever intend to play their music and dress up as said nationals I will do my research first and find out rather than go ahead and offend folks with my fake Pakistani/Korean/Bhutan/Botswana self...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaichi View Post
    Come back and talk when you learn some cultural perspective.
    Come back and write when you learn how to use the quote box properly.... what you quoted as from Denny I did not write.
    http://public.fotki.com/Lockyladyden

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Do I expect the average Japanese to learn about black american history? (I am not a black american by the way). No and neither did my post refer to the average Japanese but to said musicians that the thread is about. Do I expect a Japanese tribute band who wants to dress up as black people and play 'black music' to know something of the culture they are imitating. Yes. And I would take the same stance if a group of black Americans wanted to play tribute to Japanese music.

    So according to your logic it would not be offensive for a black person to 'whiten up' in order to sing or play European classical music.... ok then. (My previous example re Mozart, Beethoven was not refering to playing a white character but playing their music).

    Going back to the Rosie example, all it takes its basic common sense to recognise there is a possiblity that when you take the mickey (since your intention is to make fun of and not to flatter) out of a language/accent, Chinese or otherwise it will be considered offensive to that ethnic group. Acting all clueless and giving a blank face does not wash. (But then common sense ain't too common.)

    As for the Ethopian woman in your example she also showed her ignorance. She based her whole perception of Black Americans on music. That is no different to we in Europe basing our entire perceptions of Americans on John Wayne movies or of Black Americans on 'Gone with the Wind' style films.
    Does she get a pass? Depends on her circumstances/background; uneducated Ethopian with not much contact with outside world and no resources to obtain contact? Yep. Educated, cosmopolitan Ethopian? No.

    Do I personally know about the history of Bhutan, Korea, Botswana, Pakistan? Not at all. (Do you?) But if I ever intend to play their music and dress up as said nationals I will do my research first and find out rather than go ahead and offend folks with my fake Pakistani/Korean/Bhutan/Botswana self...



    Come back and write when you learn how to use the quote box properly.... what you quoted as from Denny I did not write.
    A black person "whitening up" to play a white person is not offensive. Ever saw the movie "White Chicks." That is a prime example of why history plays a part on the offensive nature of blackface. There is nothing offensive about changing the color of your skin and imitating stereotypical characteristics of another race, but do that with dark color and your being racist.

    And blackface is used in Japan for many reasons, not just to play tribute. They do that when they want to play a stereotypical view of blacks as well and for other reasons. It is usually for comedic purposes, since it would be confusing if an asian is playing a black with no difference to their skin color. Is it wrong to make fun of another's race? Nope, not even in the United States. The differences is that we americans put limitations on how we make fun of one another, and we make sure we don't cross that line. Other countries there is no such line.

    About the quotes. This is a new forum that is run very differently from my other forums and I have yet to figure this one out. I'm not even sure how to put smilies on here, to be honest.

  4. #24
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    idk, I went to Japan in 2008 (with a group of other Americans) and pretty much everyone I met was really nice. I'd definitely love to re-visit in the future, as I feel a lot closer to Japan. only once I recall being snubbed by a Japanese teen, when me and a group of others (of various races) entered an elevator, and the teen deliberately chose another. i think that's more anti-foreigner than racist, though

    check this out, though. it's really annoying how they refer to hip hop culture as black culture

    Last edited by spaceoddity; 03-13-2012 at 07:15 PM.

  5. #25
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    My [white] friend has been living in China for over a year now. She has visited the US several times and always with very interesting story about the racism there.

    There are two ways to look at the anti-dark culture in these Asian countries, and I don't think anyone can take just one side. Completely pointing fingers and saying it's simply racism is not taking into consideration the effects of American imperialism. Also, saying "it's not their fault, look what globalization has done to their culture" doesn't take into consideration the fact that many people in these countries perpetrate the racist culture and don't do anything to change it.

    One of the most astonishing things my friend showed me was a pay scale for teachers (she's teaching english). It was divided by race.

    White American
    White American not native speaker
    White non-American, native English speaker
    White non-American, not native English speaker
    Non-white native english speaker
    non-white not native english speaker
    Black American native english speaker

    That was basically how they decided to hire and pay people. Non native english speakers would be paid more than a black person who is an English teacher. My friend informed her school of a friend she has who is Mexican and has several years experience teaching kinder-2nd grade (exactly what this school needs) and they told her they would be very reluctant to hire him because teachers wouldn't want their kids to be taught by someone who isn't white.

    But anyway, my point is. There is so much to this issue that I don't think anyone can point blame in just one direction. And don't assume that everyone has access to free information like we do. It depends on the country and the city. My friend had to do all kinds of illegal things just to get her internet to work openly. I've spoken to people in China who have absolutely NO idea about certain things that go on in the world because it can be extremely filtered by the government. It's not always as simple as using google. And there are some very interesting facts and statistics on cultural imperialism ( Which would be a good discussion to have here!), which is obviously something that contributes to this racism. The responsibility of this spans far and wide.

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