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Thread: Indian Descent

  1. #21
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    Before you spend money on a DNA test, you might also wish to do some census work and examiniation of birth and death certificates, which is much cheaper. It will at least help you create a paper trail and determine where in your family there might be Native heritage. Relying on family lore can be tricky. Unfortunately, it is unreliable. Many black genealogists have found that the Native ancestry that their families have long talked about is really white ancestry or some other mix of cultures. Not saying that that is the case with you, just that the documents above can help you begin to verify family stories that have been passed down. As you move back through your grands and greats, are any of them listed as Indian on a census between 1870 and 1930? What about on birth/death certificates. If you don't live in the area where your ancestors are from, that's okay, you can order birth, death and marriage records by mail in most cases. vitalcheck.com is an easy way to do that. Cost ranges from $15-$30.

    One great resource to learn about the relationships between blacks and Native Americans is "Ties that Bind" by Dr. Tiya Miles. She presents a history of the intermingling of the two cultures through the story of an Afro-Cherokee family. I work at a museum of American Indians and Western cultures. Dr. Miles came to speak and she is fascinating. There is a podcast of her lecture on the podcast page at www.eiteljorg.org. She's got another book, but I can't remember the name. There is also William Loren Katz's "Black Indians."

    I believe that Ancestry has all or some portion of the Dawes rolls available for review. For a better explanation than I can give: Wikipedia. Keep in mind, these rolls can be as unreliable as a census. Some decisions about who was Indian and who was not were made by mere appearance; so someone of mixed black and Native ancestry who had mostly black featues might have been declared not a member of the tribe.

    I believe I remember Dr. Miles saying that you will find most intermingling with blacks among the five "civilized tribes," which were the Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole and Cherokee, and locted in the Southern US. Keep in mind that some of the intermingling involved Native Americans keeping black people as slaves, which I don't think is commonly known.

    Lastly, having some Native American blood may not be enough to secure scholarships and other benefits, or to be recognized as a member of a tribe. Tribes have different qualification standards. I would imagine, though I am not sure, that percentage of Native American ancestry would play some role in whether you are eligible for benefits, in the same way that someone who is white with 1/16 African American heritage may not be eligible for benefits intended for people whose ancestors suffered the stigma and pain of slavery and post-slavery racism.

    Good luck! I have heard that my great-great-great-grandmother was a Cherokee and I have her name, but have been unable to verify her heritage through her son's death certificate or any census records. I did find that the "trail of tears," the forced removal of the Cherokee tribe to "Indian territory" in the West, did move through the county in Kentucky where that side of my family is from. Who knows. Maybe one day I'll get the answer.

    I guess that would be my last piece of advice: Learn as much as you can about the history of the places your ancestors lived. It will help you to do research. Oh, and one more thing, afrigeneas.com, which is a Web site devoted to black family history, has a forum dedicated to researching Native ancestry. I've never used that particular forum, but the folks at Afrigeneas are super helpful and have helped me solve some family mysteries.
    [b][url="http://www.whattamisaid.blogspot.com"]Check out my new blog[/url]![/b]

  2. #22
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    Thanks for the info! I will check out vitalcheck.com I hadn't heard of this site before.

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    Thanks for the info! I will check out vitalcheck.com I hadn't heard of this site before.
    [/b]
    Glad to help. By the way, when you use vitalcheck you do need some basic information. For instance for death certificates, you might need the person's name, date they died, county and city they died in. What I did was first gather that basic info on Ancestry or FamilySearch or whatever site you use, then take that info to vitalcheck.
    [b][url="http://www.whattamisaid.blogspot.com"]Check out my new blog[/url]![/b]

  4. #24
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    I know I am of Carib(Amerindian) descent on mom's side. Directly, my grandmother is Carib and still alive. I am going to get some hair samples from her with permission cause she is in her 80's. That side of family have been in the islands (Caribbean) for centuries...but I am not interested in the free money. I doubt Id be eligible for anything...never gave it a second thought. Plus my father is Guyanese, Indian/Black...its a bit of a mish-mash to show a high percentage of any race...at least I think so.

    I know Im black, its how I identify myself and how the world identifies me.
    That being said I would like to do the DNA thing ...so my family would have the info. If I didnt tell them they would not have known.

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  5. #25
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    Well I'm not going to run out tomorrow and do the test, it's something that I am considering. Especially If I can benefit from it educationally. THe presentation that they did at my family reunion stated that they did a test, and it told them the exact tribe names, there was a list but i don't remember. So i'm not sure if there are different test to be done, but it's something that i will research further.
    [/b]
    There is currently no *one* test that I know of the lists specific tribes for sure. I'd be interested in that. One of my cousins took an autosomal test to determine what percentage she was Black, White, and Indian. Her test showed Native/East Asian ancestry, although I can't remember the percentage. Through the DNA and old-fashioned research, she was able to enroll in state-recognized Indian tribe. It just so happens that her ancestors and mine are from a small area that is shared in common with this tribe, as well as a 2 other "cousin" tribes.

    Also, I don't mean to be offensive when I say this, but I need to speak on something that you said. Indian folks have always been mistreated and used, their culture also stolen. White people have created "sweat lodges", their own form of *traditional* Indian regalia, culture, songs and dances. Using the Indian people for their own means. I really do hope that your only intention is not only to find this ancestry to pay for college, but rather to learn of your own history to benefit others.

    There are many people who have been affiliated with Indian folks and would love to enroll in a tribe in order to help their kin and to pass the culture and language on to their children. Unfortunately, some of these people will probably never be able to actually confirm this ancestry. Don't throw away God's blessing. If your goal is only to see what you can get out of this, that makes you not much different than the others that have used them. What else do you plan to do when you discover this ancestry? Are you going to try to enroll? Learn the culture? Get to know the people with whom you share ancestry? If your goal is to this end, I would love to hear about what you learn, if you don't mind sharing!

  6. #26
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    To answer the first question, it would be a yes. But you have to know which tribe you are affiliated with in order to get the scholarship. You should also be aware of the fact that many Indian tribes do want to accept Black Indians as being linked to them. But if you have the DNA to prove it, what can they do about it.

    [/b]

    ^^^ that aint fair, they shouldn't have slept with them then. WE'z all family. lol, I know my uncle's niece ( on his wife side) gets this type of funding, and I know at my family reunion some of the elders did a DNA test, and they also stated something about that also.

    Well I know my grandfather's mother was full indian, I think It was Choctaw, if I'm not mistaken
    [/b]
    I assume that you are referring to my statement above the was responding to the previous poster. That was merely a joke. I don't know exactly what test/ or tests were taken in order to prove specific tribes, I just know it was done. I've wanted to know about my ancestry. Until those people that had the test done I didn't know that it could be proved, or actually didn't really think about. If my intentions were only to gain funds for education then I would have forked over the money already to start the process. I understand that Indians were mistreated, but that actually has nothing to do with me personally, b/c I wasn't the one that did it. Of course learning about my heritage is beneficial, but if I can also get funding for college, that benefits me now. I can learn about my ancestry at anytime, but if there are age limits to this funding I would want to go ahead and at least get it started before i reach the age limit. If I am entitled to something it shouldnt be denied regardless if I am Black Indian or not.


    What else do you plan to do when you discover this ancestry? Give the same information to my family so that they will know, b/c they'll never seek to find out. Just like I didn't know my grandfather was half indian until 3 years ago. Just like I will give information to my cousins regarding their education dealing with anything else ( esp the one's with a single parent), im most definitely going to give them this information, Living in a single parent home often causes a hinderance with funding for education, esp when there are three. If this is seen as mistreating indians or trying to get over on them, then there is nothing i can do about that, If I have the opportunity to give them information ( knowledge, and funding, etc) then I will do so.



    Are you going to try to enroll? Learn the culture? Yes I will enroll. I will learn about the culture, but i dont know if I would necessarily change my lifestyle to fit it. Maybe if it is along the lines of what I believe now, it's a possibility.

    Get to know the people with whom you share ancestry? If possible, I will... But if they don't want any connection b/c of me being a black indian, i dunno



  7. #27
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    YF21, I understand what you are saying about applying for scholarships while you have the chance. That is completely understandable. As a matter of fact, there is a scholarship for Native Americans that I had posted in my classroom last year, I believe it is the Morris K. Udall Scholarship. You can "google" it to find out more info.

    My concern about people of NA ancestry comes from some of the concerns that I have heard them voice. Mostly that (White) people who believe that their great-great grandma was a Cherokee princess read a little about Native Americans and will be trying to open sweat lodges where they will charge people for its use. Nevermind that the Cherokees did not have princesses until they began their pageants, or that everyone is *not* Cherokee, or that real Indians would not charge people for using their sweat lodge!

    They get upset, and understandably so, when people use their culture for their own gain, without any thought of getting to know them for who they are, taking the time to learn their culture, nor giving back to the NA community. I'm glad to know that you plan to learn the culture! The cultures and histories of the NA people are very interesting. By the way, where are you in your research?

  8. #28
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    Don't forget that if you find that this is a part of your geneology these are your people too. You may not know how but what happened to the tribes and that race does affect you, is a part of why you are who you are, even if it is not as obvious as other aspects of your history may be. In my experience many Native people are often very interested in others (black and white) who have native blood, especially if you are interested in learning more about the culture/traditions. You don't have to change anything about yourself to learn how they live(d), what they believe(d), etc. But think of it this way, there are some black people who are interested in people of other races learning about black culture and some who will shut those people out very harshly, I don't agree that it is right, but I can understand why it happens, and why it may happen with Natives or any other culture that has been severly damaged by another culture
    (i.e. outsiders). But don't give up, there will be others who will be open to sharing.

    With that said, I have seen a picture of a native american ancestor in my family, but I have no clue how to find it again, or who it was. Also on my father's side my great grandma says she is part cherokee. I will have to talk to both of my greats, unfortunately one has alzheimers and both great grandpa's are dead. I just wonder how likely it will be to find birth and death certificates that actually say someone is native american... I didn't think that they kept track of that stuff or provided information on mixed racial heritage, I was under the assumption that it was something that was hidden.

  9. #29
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    Thought this might be of interest to some people:
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070626/latu013a.html?.v=3

    Ancestry.com Launches 150 Years of Native American Family History, Online for the First Time
    Tuesday June 26, 8:00 am ET
    Discover More than 7.5 Million Names in the U.S. Indian Censuses; The Best Resource for Tracing American Indian Family History Available at a Click of Your Mouse


    PROVO, Utah, June 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Ancestry.com, the world's leading online family history resource, today launched more than 7.5 million names in U.S. Indian Censuses, the largest online collection of Native American family history records. Taken by the Bureau of Indian affairs, the censuses document some 150 years of Native American family history. These censuses create an intimate portrait of individuals living on all registered Indian reservations between 1885 and the 1940s.

    The U.S. Indian Censuses are among the most important documents for tracing Native American family history -- as well as the place to for anyone with Native American ancestry to begin searching for their heritage. Representing more than 250 tribes from some 275 reservations, schools and hospitals across the United States, the censuses typically recorded names, including Indian names, ages, birthdates, tribe, reservation and more.

    Details of children born in the 1940s combined with information about individuals born in the early 1800s enable researchers to find parents and grandparents as children in 20th century censuses and trace their family to earlier generations. Clues in the census show where ancestors lived and how families changed over the years.

    "The stories contained in these censuses will help Native Americans preserve their tradition-rich personal and cultural identity," says Megan Smolenyak, chief family historian for Ancestry.com. "Crossing tribal and reservation boundaries, these censuses tell personal stories of Native Americans living on reservations across the United States. In them we find influential Native Americans who led their people along side those whose stories are still waiting to be told."

    Among the well-known names in the Native American censuses include:
    -- Celebrated Iwo Jima flag raiser Ira Hayes was counted on Arizona's Gila
    River reservation in censuses from 1930 to 1936.
    -- Legendary Jim Thorpe appears 15 times in the censuses -- first as a
    three-year-old named Jimmie living in Indian Territory, finally as a 50
    year old in 1937.


    The census also tells countless personal stories, such as:
    -- Jesse Cornplanter of New York's Cattaraugus reservation appears in 16
    censuses -- first as a child with his parents, then as a father with a
    wife and child
    -- Gabe Gobin, a logger on the Tulalip Reservation in Washington, who
    appears in 33 years of censuses.
    -- Seminole Mary Parker appears as a young teenage in three censuses taken
    in the 1930s.

    Because the Native American censuses were taken so often, they are among the best censuses worldwide for tracing family history. The U.S. federal census is taken only once every ten years. In addition, because Native Americans were not granted full U.S. citizenship until 1924, the U.S. federal censuses before 1930 are sporadic at best for counting Native Americans. The yearly counts and updates reflected in the Indian censuses offer Native American family historians a more complete and accurate picture of their ancestors than the federal census.

    About Ancestry.com

    With 24,000 searchable databases and titles, Ancestry.com is the No. 1 online source for family history information. Since its launch in 1997, Ancestry.com has been the premier resource for family history, simplifying genealogical research for millions of people by providing them with many easy-to-use tools and resources to build their own unique family trees. The site is home to the only complete online U.S. Federal Census collection, 1790-1930, as well as the world's largest online collection of U.S. ship passenger list records featuring more than 100 million names, 1820-1960. Ancestry.com is part of The Generations Network, Inc., a leading network of family-focused interactive properties, including MyFamily.com, Rootsweb.com, Genealogy.com and Family Tree Maker. In total, The Generations Network properties receive 10.4 million unique visitors worldwide and over 450 million page views a month (© comScore Media Metrix, March 2007).


    Source: Ancestry.com

  10. #30
    andreah Guest

    Talking

    Alot of afro americans have native american blood. I know i have french, cheeroke, chataw, & creole in me.

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