What do you think of the Islamic hijab for women? [Archive] - Nappturality Black Natural Hair Care Forums

Alas1119

03-03-2003, 02:10 AM

As a feminist, I am not feeling the hijab. Why is it in all the major religions, women are always required to cover themselves to assist men in controlling their lust? Brings it right back to "it's the woman's fault" IMO. Trust me, there are women who command plenty of respect in all arenas without resorting to veiling or otherwise hiding themselves.

Not to offend anyone, but this is my take on the matter. Women having to cover their heads to hide their beautiful hair. Women having to shroud their bodies in loose, shapeless clothing so men can't leer at their form. Women having to sit in back of the mosque (and synogogue for Jews) so that men won't be distracted by their backsides during prayer. Women having to avert their gaze downward to maintain their modesty - I see these all as ways to control and blame women for male lust. Why can't men be responsible for controlling their own sexual impulses???

I'll never forget last summer which was a particularly hot and humid one here in New York City. In the parking lot of the supermarket was a Muslim family. The wife was covered from head to toe in a black abaya with only eyes showing. The husband was wearing khaki shorts and a short sleeved button down shirt. Just looking at that woman made me sweat more! It seemed so unfair to me.

lovinblackness

03-03-2003, 03:19 AM

Well, I wasn't going to reply to this thread until I read the last comment.

It seems that many of you are taking a look at things (not just in this thread but there was another in a diff. part of the board on women in Arabia) and making all kinds of assumptions.

How do you know how that women was feeling? Perhaps she would not be the slightest bit interested in your sympathy. Indeed according to her value system she might well be feeling sorry for you. After all, that is what this is really all about, differing value systems and her freedom to choose to follow the law of God according to how SHE understands it. Why is that less valuable than your freedom to choose to adhere to your own spiritual or religious values w/o being patronized?

Not every Muslim woman chooses to wear all black and be completely covered in public. However, those who do so deserve the same respect as anyone else. My husband never wears shorts because the Prophet didn't dress that way and he feels that it is not suffeciently modest. All the Muslim women I know are Muslim because at some point in their lives they chose to be, even those who were born in Muslim families. They adhere to the laws of their religion according to their own closeness to God and their own understanding of what those laws require.

No one forced me to cover, and if you ever saw me in all black, at any time of year it would be because that is what I felt like wearing. I see all kinds of folks who make decisions that I believe are disrespectful to their value as human beings and ultimately harmful to them and/or society. I'm not here to impose my values on them nor to 'save' those who aren't asking for my help. Along those same lines, I'm not interested in being 'saved' by someone else's interpretation of feminism or how I should live my life.

Are their Muslim women who are oppressed? Absolutely. Are there Muslims who attempt to use Islamic law as a tool of oppression? Sure enough. Are there athiests, agnostic, jewish, christian, pagan, hindu... women who are oppressed, who are forced by law or culture to do things or for that matter NOT to do things that they feel they are entitled to do. Absolutely. And?

The fact that their exists oppressors among us does not mean that the system is inherently oppressive. Islam exists on a well-thought out system of balance. Islamic modesty encompasses, dress, speech, mannerisms and it is by the order of Islam's primary source of law, The Qur'an, equally encumbant upon men and women. The qur'an makes it very clear, in several verses, that each man and each woman is responsible for their own actions and 'no soul can carry the burden of another'.

I highly recommend the Book 'Re-thinking Western Feminism'. Just as the feminism of middle-class white American and European women can not address and historically has failed to address the specific needs of oppressed black and brown peoples, attempts to 'liberate' Muslim women by imposing western value systems that we neither want nor desire is simply another form of imperialism. It will fail everytime. Check out the womanist movement of third wave young women who are dissapointed in the lack of feminist interest in their needs or even go back as far as the famous "A'int I a Woman" Speech by Sojourner Truth.

I have been an active feminist since 9th grade. Indeed it was Susan Brownmiller's book, 'Femininity' that convinced me to wear hijab. Perhaps my feminism does not look like yours? Feminism is bigger than one person's view of how to live well.

The world is larger and more complex than CNN's coverage. Iran currently has a female vice president. Pakistan has had a female president several times. Egyptian women entire math and science professions and more than double the number of American women. Indeed, in my immediate circle of Muslim friends (all of whom wear hijab) I can think of:

A prison Nurse
A hospital administrator
Two International Aide workers (nurses)
A medical school student
A pediatrician
A family practice Doctor
Several Teachers
An engineer
A computer Programmer...

Not one of these women was forced to wear hijab, indeed a few had to fight their families and communities in order to wear it. To discount and patronize us because we do not dress as you do, and do not value the same things or in the same ways is to detract from the power of the feminisms premise: freedom to choose. It is ultimately harmful to us all.

Alas1119

03-03-2003, 09:31 PM

Well, I wasn't going to reply to this thread until I read the last comment.

It seems that many of you are taking a look at things (not just in this thread but there was another in a diff. part of the board on women in Arabia) and making all kinds of assumptions.

How do you know how that women was feeling? Perhaps she would not be the slightest bit interested in your sympathy. Indeed according to her value system she might well be feeling sorry for you. After all, that is what this is really all about, differing value systems and her freedom to choose to follow the law of God according to how SHE understands it. Why is that less valuable than your freedom to choose to adhere to your own spiritual or religious values w/o being patronized?

Not every Muslim woman chooses to wear all black and be completely covered in public. However, those who do so deserve the same respect as anyone else. My husband never wears shorts because the Prophet didn't dress that way and he feels that it is not suffeciently modest. All the Muslim women I know are Muslim because at some point in their lives they chose to be, even those who were born in Muslim families. They adhere to the laws of their religion according to their own closeness to God and their own understanding of what those laws require.

No one forced me to cover, and if you ever saw me in all black, at any time of year it would be because that is what I felt like wearing....

Not one of these women was forced to wear hijab, indeed a few had to fight their families and communities in order to wear it. To discount and patronize us because we do not dress as you do, and do not value the same things or in the same ways is to detract from the power of the feminisms premise: freedom to choose. It is ultimately harmful to us all.

I never said that I feel sorry for that woman. She doesn't need my sympathy. But it did seem patently unfair to me that she's walking around in an all black covering with only her eyes showing in 95 degree weather/95 percent humidity. And her husband is strolling around with light colored short sleeve shirt and shorts staying as cool as possible. If that's her choice, fine for her. But a lot of these middle eastern Muslim women don't have a choice because their husbands are their lord and master and dictate to them what they have to do.

And I have no problem with people and their differing value systems. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

It's great that you chose to wear hijab. Thank God you weren't forced to do so. However the principles of Islamic modesty don't seem to work equally in both directions from my viewpoint. It seems that women have much more of a burden to be modest than men do. I don't see why men don't have to be covered from head to toe. That's my opinion.

And you're right, in many religions - Judaism, Hindu, Christian, etc. women are oppressed. But I see the common thread in all of them as MEN imposing these standards and rules for women. And many times, these harsh rules are contradictory to the teachings of the religion. I have a problem with that too.

Another problem I have (and I mentioned this before) is the fact that women always have to be responsible for men's sexuality and their lustful impulses. Religions have always imposed this burden upon women and I don't like it.

Midoria

03-03-2003, 11:24 PM

NaturalSerenitee

03-04-2003, 02:16 AM

Alas, just curious.

What culture isn't male dominated? What major world religion doesn't favor men or use a male as their centerpiece? Religion is a human concept. Why is it so shocking that most religions favor men?

The principles of modesty are very equal in Islam. They are not enforced equally, and that's where the problem lies.

The spiritual path I follow is not male domainated as a matter of fact. In Wicca, women and men are totally equal and in some branches, women are the leaders over men. In other it's both women and men. There is not one branch or tradition in Wicca that is male dominated or male-led.

Nothing is required of men that is not required of women and vice versa,and instead of covering male or female beauty, it is cherished and celebrated.

Nothing is wrong with following the path you choose, but let's be real. A lot of those women are not swaeting behind those veils because they choose to, especially in lesser-developed countries.

lovinblackness

03-04-2003, 02:56 AM

[
Nothing is wrong with following the path you choose, but let's be real. A lot of those women are not swaeting behind those veils because they choose to, especially in lesser-developed countries.

Really? What percentage of them would rather be wearing tank tops and mini-skirts? Have you done a study? I haven't either. How many Muslim women have you established friendships with? Do you know anyone who wears hijab? Have you ever asked any of them how they feel about it? As I stated, the world is much more complicated then what you see on CNN.

Do you know that all over the world Muslim women are fighting for their right to religious freedom? In Turkey women who wear hijab are legally barred from attending public universities and working in the government. A democratically elected member of the Turkish parliament was refused entrance into the government hall because she was wearing a headscarf. In Egypt schoolgirls have been repeatedly banned from school until they unveil. This battle has been occuring in France for years. The same problems can be found in Morocco and various parts of the so-called "muslim" world.

Let us most definitely be real. This reaches the heart of what is so absurd about so-called feminist posturing over the issue of hijab. When women in these lesser developed countries are questioned as to what the changes they would like to see, their priorities are usually things like sufficient food, clean water, safety from war and rape as a tool of war, reproductive health etc. They want to SURVIVE. Hijab is not at the top of the list of priorities. Many of the afghan women who were funded by feminists organizations to pursue education here in America continue to do so veiled. Oprah had a program on this issue, where these women spoke freely about themselves. It is amazing that so many people are interested in telling Muslim women what they need and ignoring what they say about their own needs.

Midoria

03-04-2003, 04:00 AM

Nothing is wrong with following the path you choose, but let's be real. A lot of those women are not swaeting behind those veils because they choose to, especially in lesser-developed countries.

I repeat:

The principles of modesty are very equal in Islam. They are not enforced equally, and that's where the problem lies.

starchild

03-04-2003, 05:42 PM

Well, I know that hijab is NOT a requirement. Some countries choose to enforce it as law (Saudi Arabia) but I know the Koran says that everyone should dress modestly. It doesn't give specifics. I know men can't enter the Islamic Center near me with their arms or legs showing, and most of them wear a Kufi.

Most of my Muslim friends don't cover their heads, but they don't show their bare arms or legs either. A lot of them wear a nice shell and a sheer/silk shirt in the summer and other things like that. I have yet to see any of their dads or husbands wearing shorts. So I can't say it's one-sided.
i agree, My sister ex-boyfriend who is from Iraq says that some women who cover up in the black up to the eyes throw up on the street cause it is so hot and supposedly when the women walk the big garment is suppose to catch a breeze .

Sometimes when i see the hijab I think it is nice and beautiful, i personally could not wear one everyday, so that is my question, if a women wears the hijab must she wear it everyday or is it when she feel like it? just trying to understand

Midoria

03-04-2003, 07:52 PM

Sometimes when i see the hijab I think it is nice and beautiful, i personally could not wear one everyday, so that is my question, if a women wears the hijab must she wear it everyday or is it when she feel like it? just trying to understand

As I said before, most of my Muslim women friends do not wear hijab, but those that do see it as a commitment. You either do it or you don't. There is no in between for them. I think hijab can be beautiful as well. To me, the beauty comes from women choosing to wear it. Something about the dedication is impressive.

I knew some Saudi women that would wear full body coverings (hands and face only) while in the states because they were just accustomed to it. Their husbands and fathers didn't mind them wearing modern western clothing (they told me this) but they didn't bother because they felt more comfortable being covered.

I remember working in North Virginia wear a lot of rich Arabs vacation in the summertime. My friend who worked for Mac cosmetics told me that 6 Saudi women came up to her as asked, rather nervously, if there was a backroom where they could receive makeovers. They didn't want to unveil in the middle of the department store. So she got two other girls from her counter, covered a large cart with make-up, and took them to the 'practice room' that Nordstrom has for make-up artist to take lessons from guest speakers. She told me "Mid, they unveiled and it was like night and day." These women were dressed to kill. They also mentioned that they normally wear full make-up but didn't that day since they planned on having makeovers. My friend was embarrassed about this, but she told me that she shrieked "You all are so beautiful" before she could control herself. But they laughed. They were nice women.

I'm telling everyone this because it says a lot about religion and culture. The two are not hand in hand. These Saudi women were having fun being...well...girly. They like to shop and wear pretty things and don't feel bad because everyone doesn't see them in their St. John suits. And really, that's my main concern. Are the women happy with their lives? If they are I see no reason to pursue the issue. We tend to ignore the women we are trying to help. You canâ€™t help someone if you donâ€™t listen to their needs. Most Arab women I know are more concerned about education, jobs, and voting. Their clothing is low on the importance scale.

lovinblackness

03-04-2003, 09:35 PM

Sometimes when i see the hijab I think it is nice and beautiful, i personally could not wear one everyday, so that is my question, if a women wears the hijab must she wear it everyday or is it when she feel like it? just trying to understand

I'm telling everyone this because it says a lot about religion and culture. The two are not hand in hand. These Saudi women were having fun being...well...girly. They like to shop and wear pretty things and don't feel bad because everyone doesn't see them in their St. John suits. And really, that's my main concern. Are the women happy with their lives? If they are I see no reason to pursue the issue. We tend to ignore the women we are trying to help. You can’t help someone if you don’t listen to their needs. Most Arab women I know are more concerned about education, jobs, and voting. Their clothing is low on the importance scale.

This was beautifully answered Midoria and your last sentences sum up my point. My own hijab wardrobe varies depending on my mood and the occassion. Most winter days you will find me in a black abaya and a black iranian style scarf because black always matches and it is easy to wear. During the summer I tend to wear more skirts and long tops. If I am attending a business meeting or going to an interview etc then I will be in a suit or a long skirt and tailored jacket and a silk scarf. Sometimes you might catch me takin out the trash or going for a walk in sweats and some big ole shirt with any scarf I happened to throw on.

To answer the original question: If you wear hijab, you are required to cover all except face and hands (some say feet) in the presence of men who you are not related to. So, if I am in my backyard with my husband a few uncles, my son and father-in law then I would not be in hijab. If my next door neighboor Bob were there, then I would be wearing hijab.

Their are CERTAINLY hijab fads and fashions. I'd love to say that hijab is always simple and that Muslims are immune to materialism but alas we are human. Right now long tailored tops with pants are in and "Valentino" silk scarves which are WAY overpriced (the cheapest is 60 bucks) are the look. Kuwaiti style abayas are also in fashion because they are beautifully decorated and very easy to wear. Unfortunately, 'gaudy' is also in fashion as I've been seeing fur lined abayas showing up in stores (its as ugly as you'd imagine). Here are some links to give you an idea of the different ways Muslim women meet the requirements to cover:

http://www.shukronline.com/womens.html
http://www.shukronline.com/wb301.html (This is how most of my friends dress because we are American we tend to wear American clothing)
http://www.azizahmagazine.com/
http://www.azizahmagazine.com/side-backiss...-selection.html (http://www.azizahmagazine.com/side-backissue-selection.html)
http://www.alhediya.com/ladiesclothing.html

There are of course, beautiful African, Indian and Malaysian style clothing that women choose to wear as well.

rozlips

03-04-2003, 09:48 PM

I think the hijab is really pretty. I don't particularly care for the all black ones, but that's just because I'm from Alabama, and it looks hot. Most of the Muslim women around here wear really pretty scarves, and some wear scarves with beads and pretty applique work on them. I like to buy clothing and whatnot from different cultures, I have about 6 saris but I don't wear them because I'm afraid that someone might be insulted. I feel the same way about the hijab, as I'm not Muslim, I'm sure folks would be offended.

I'm much more concerned about the health and welfare of women around the world than I am about the way they choose to dress. Many times folks get feminism twisted, feminism is about CHOICES not a proscribed Western mindset. If these women choose to cover, that's their business.

BTW, like I said, around here the different women primarily wear pastel colors. But every now and then I see one in the black. Is that significant? Do certain sects require you wear black and in others it's okay to wear colors?

lovinblackness

03-04-2003, 11:20 PM

BTW, like I said, around here the different women primarily wear pastel colors. But every now and then I see one in the black. Is that significant? Do certain sects require you wear black and in others it's okay to wear colors?

No, black is usually worn by more conservative women and during times of mourning. Even,though it is changing with so many converts and girls who were raised in the west, you are still seen as being REALLY pious if you wear all black. Usually the wives of Imams/Sheikhs ( religous scholars) wear all black like the 'preachers' wife is expected to set an example. This is cultural by the way and not Islamic law or anything. Also women who cover from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states tend to wear a lot of black because its more of their national dress. Women from Africa, Asia and India though are DEFINITELY into color. Almost every time a friend of mine comes back from hajj the beauty of the west African women and their clothing is always a subject. Methinks the African sistsers represent us well. If you live in an area heavily populated by shia (usually from Iran, Iraq and Lebanon) you will see A LOT of black this time of year as we are now in the month of Muharram which is a time of mourning for the shi'a.

Midoria

03-04-2003, 11:45 PM

I like to buy clothing and whatnot from different cultures, I have about 6 saris but I don't wear them because I'm afraid that someone might be insulted. I feel the same way about the hijab, as I'm not Muslim, I'm sure folks would be offended.

Same here! My favorite item is a pure silk kimono I got from a Japanese man. I have some saris too. I used the kimono a housecoat, but it was too pretty for that. So now it's hanging in my living room. It's a good convo piece!

I wouldn't wear hijab for fun either. But you can wear middle eastern/indian clothing. I own a Salwar. Also the scarves that we all have been admiring can be worn around the neck and shoulders. I call this the 'modified muslim look'.

Check out http://www.alhannah.com/index2.html for scarves. They are lovely.

I would also like to add (as a general note) that in some places a man CAN get in trouble for staring down a woman. My BF traveled Bahrain and said that the men there will give you dirty looks if you are a man looking at a woman too hard. Even if the woman is not related to him. They consider it to be rude.

strawwberryz

03-05-2003, 12:35 AM

I grew up with many Muslim girls, some who wore the hijab and others who did not. I always looked at it like a style preferrence. Equal to how some African older women wear head ties all the time like my gramma.

Alas1119

03-05-2003, 04:52 AM

As long as women have the CHOICE if they want to wear hijab, then that's fine by me. It's not something I would personally do, but to each her own.

starchild

03-05-2003, 07:58 PM

thanks for answering my question

the hijab and clothes look very beautiful

Medusa Negrita

03-05-2003, 08:33 PM

Some of those clothes are really pretty and I love the headwraps/scares and stuff. I even thought the purple and blue burkua they wore in Saudi were pretty - minus the net face covering.

I plan on learning how to sew and when I do, these are probably some of the clothes I would sew. I like them but they are very expensive, and it would be cheaper for me to sew them. I like clothes from different cultures also, my favorite being that of African, Asian, and Indian clothes. I also like the Hendi and Mendhi hand and face art, and the little dot in the middle of the forehead like the Indians wear. I have wanted to wear the dot and the mendi before, but for reasons like someone else mentioned, I don't want to offend because I am not of that culture. However, the same doesn't stand for clothes. If I had them, I'd wear them.

With regards to Muslim wear like presented in the advertisments, I would wear that too, with no problem. But my problem is - is that I don't want people mistaking me for a muslum women - because some of them would get offended if saw wear a abaka (or however yous spell it) one day, thinking "oh there's a muslim woman" and the next I sports bra and shorts. That's just me - my clothes can be very conservative one day with the 'muslim' look, sporty the next, and the next I could be wearing a cowboy hat, fringes, and jeans. I also swim and I like a two piece swimsuit - and there's plenty of strange men at a public pool.

Oh yeah - those first links were kinda strange - the women's head were cut off in the advertisements. I am use to seeing women's heads in advertisment, and when I didnt - :shock: strange. But if not suppose to show your face to the public - I understand that. But why were they showing their faces in the scarves? Seems like the scares would be covering the bottom of the face? Is it just hair you're suppose to cover? Or most of the face? Or does that depend on different cultures and people practicing the religion?

lovinblackness

03-05-2003, 09:58 PM

Oh yeah - those first links were kinda strange - the women's head were cut off in the advertisements. I am use to seeing women's heads in advertisment, and when I didnt - :shock: strange. But if not suppose to show your face to the public - I understand that. But why were they showing their faces in the scarves? Seems like the scares would be covering the bottom of the face? Is it just hair you're suppose to cover? Or most of the face? Or does that depend on different cultures and people practicing the religion?

ROTF. You know I saw that, but I didn't really 'notice' it, it is kinda strange huh. I think the reason they cut off the head is because they want you to focus on the clothes and not the model. If you go to the men's section you will see that the male model's heads are cut out of the pictures too. The other links do show women with their smiling faces. Actually I'm in this month's issue of Mothering magazine cheesing away ;0) so we don't have to cover our faces. Though a small minority of women believe that you must and they do, but most Muslims feel that it is optional.

As far as the bindi (the dot worn in the middle of the forhead by hindu men and women) the bindi has very specific meaning for hindus. The color of your dot is symbolic of marital status or caste etc. so it probably would offend people if you wore it for fashion, although I think its really pretty too.

I was thinking about Roz and her saris. Saris are so beautiful, I was thinking that since they are basically just a whole lot of material you could probably have it made into a skirt and matching top or skirt and matching headwrap? If you are ever interested in wearing one I found this online: http://www.darshani.com/ The whole site is fascinating but, specifically go to "How To Wear A Sari" it gives step by step instructions...

curlygirl

03-05-2003, 11:40 PM

ROTF. You know I saw that, but I didn't really 'notice' it, it is kinda strange huh. I think the reason they cut off the head is because they want you to focus on the clothes and not the model. If you go to the men's section you will see that the male model's heads are cut out of the pictures too. The other links do show women with their smiling faces. Actually I'm in this month's issue of Mothering magazine cheesing away ;0) so we don't have to cover our faces. Though a small minority of women believe that you must and they do, but most Muslims feel that it is optional.

As far as the bindi (the dot worn in the middle of the forhead by hindu men and women) the bindi has very specific meaning for hindus. The color of your dot is symbolic of marital status or caste etc. so it probably would offend people if you wore it for fashion, although I think its really pretty too.

I was thinking about Roz and her saris. Saris are so beautiful, I was thinking that since they are basically just a whole lot of material you could probably have it made into a skirt and matching top or skirt and matching headwrap? If you are ever interested in wearing one I found this online: http://www.darshani.com/ The whole site is fascinating but, specifically go to "How To Wear A Sari" it gives step by step instructions...

Thank you for all those links and for sharing your experience. I have bookmarked all those sites and plan to look at them more. It is easy to stereotype and forget that being a Muslim woman does not mean a woman is oppressed. I am also really enjoying the darshani site, especially the frugal living article. thanks again...

NewNapps26

03-06-2003, 12:38 AM

Very, very informational ladies!

I really like watching the turn this conversation has taken. At first, it was simply arguing and bickering going back and forth. I was wondering to myself how long it would last.

It was an extremely(sp?) pleasant surprise to see that by the end of the thread, this had become a full blown "educate me" lesson on cultural and religious clothing.

To whoever did the turn around, great going! These are the types of conversations I love to see amongst women, natural, discussion-based and not tht catty types that we are so-called known for.

Is it the nappiness that's made it this way? If so, what a great reason to stay nappy! Again, way to go my beautiful natural sisters! :!:

rozlips

03-06-2003, 02:13 AM

I've worn mehndi on my hands and feet. The Indian lady who did mine said it was okay, and that it was not offensive. She did say that I couldn't wear the bindi though, but they really are pretty.

She and her husband own an Indian food store here in my town, actually it's like an "All Things Indian" store. I had purchased an Indian cookbook on-line (love cooking from other cultures too) and I went there to purchase the huge amount of spices you have to have to cook Indian food. Apparently she took some type of liking to me, because she spent hours explaining Indian culture and cooking and we ended up in her kitchen cooking up a storm. I've taught her some of my favorite southern dishes, and she's taught me some Indian ones. I don't know, it seems that international folks are always trying to feed me. I guess it's evident that I love to eat, and will try anything, at least once.

Funny aside, I'm hoping that if I get pregnant I'll be able to get my belly done in mehndi. I think it would be hilarious to go into the delivery room with this big fat painted belly. I'm pretty sure I'd be the first one! :D

lovinblackness

03-06-2003, 02:39 AM

Funny aside, I'm hoping that if I get pregnant I'll be able to get my belly done in mehndi. I think it would be hilarious to go into the delivery room with this big fat painted belly. I'm pretty sure I'd be the first one! :D

I don't know if I mentioned it here or on another board but I plan to do this too. I never got around to it with my first pregnancy, but this time around I'm dying to do it. Ahem Roz, on the side I'm getting sick of all this agreeing with you. Could you please say something to get me all riled up so we can go back to debating? After all you have become my favorite napptural to disagree with :wink:

BTW I think that indian women have mastered the 'arts' of feminine beauty. I LOVE to watch indian movies and movies about Indians( I recommend Monsoon Wedding and Kama Sutra) not only are they a beautiful and diverse people, but they have the most gorgeous clothing and jewelry. One of the great joys I have found about being Muslim is the access it has given me to establishing close friendships with people from such a great number of differing cultures. Its mind blowing to see how humanity has developed so many forms of beauty, grace and ways of being kind to one another.

Midoria

03-06-2003, 03:14 AM

I don't know, it seems that international folks are always trying to feed me. I guess it's evident that I love to eat, and will try anything, at least once.

:lol:

rozlips

03-06-2003, 04:55 AM

Ahem Roz, on the side I'm getting sick of all this agreeing with you. Could you please say something to get me all riled up so we can go back to debating? After all you have become my favorite napptural to disagree with :wink:

Actually I'm feeling pretty mellow these days, February was a miserable month with only about three sunny days. Now my daffodils are coming up and this weekend I'm going to the nursery. Nothing not rock my groove right now. But maybe I'll be back to my ole cranky self soon. I'll keep you posted. :lol:

Midoria

03-06-2003, 08:56 PM

http://www.islamicboutique.com/prod_images/0101013s.jpg

I really like this abaya. My BF said he'd take me to visit the Middle East/North Africa when things die down. I'm considering buying it for the trip.

Midoria

03-06-2003, 09:01 PM

I LOVE to watch indian movies and movies about Indians( I recommend Monsoon Wedding and Kama Sutra) not only are they a beautiful and diverse people, but they have the most gorgeous clothing and jewelry.

BOLLYWOOOOODDDD!! :lol: :wink:

They have nice hair too.

lovinblackness

03-07-2003, 03:46 AM

Thats beautiful Midoria. You might wanna check these folks out too:

http://www.alhediya.com/ (good customer service)
http://www.almuhajabat.com/
http://caravanxpress.com/Qstore/

if you do an ebay search under hijab they have some good stuff too.

Midoria

03-13-2003, 05:47 AM

I could not stop laughing. Someone sent this to me:

OBSERVATIONS ON HIJAB
Author: Unknown

It has been my personal observation that some Muslim girls and women do not realize the significance of hijab. Hijab is arabic for protection and cover. Some people put a lot effort into their hijab, yet it serves no purpose. I am referring to the pointless hijab that some girls wear.

The first pointless hijab is referred to as the headband hijab. It is a band of fabric approximately 4 inches wide. It covers the back of the head and allows all the hair to be exposed. It doesn't serve much in terms of modesty, but at least it comes in handy in case of an unexpected tennis match.

The second pointless hijab is the dupetta, also known as the Saran wrap hijab. It covers all the hair, but it is totally transparent. Again it doesn't serve much in terms of modesty, but it keeps the hair nice and fresh.

The third type of hijab is known as the Mickey Mouse Hijab. It is when a girl wears a black scarf and tucks it behind her ear, so that her ears stick out.

The yo-yo hijabs. The first yo-yo hijab, also known as the Benazir Bhutto hijab, is the scarf that keeps falling down and needs to be constantly pulled back up....up, down, up, down, just like a yo-yo.

The second yo-yo hijab is also referred to as the convertible hijab. This type of hijab is predominant at any type of social event, i.e. an Aqeeqah, Bismillah party, Ameen party, wedding, etc. This is when an Imam or Qari comes up to the microphone and starts to recite Qur'an. At this point, all the convertible hijabs come up...until he says "Sadaqallahul atheem". I'm not sure, but apparently in some cultures that translates to "ok sisters, you may now take off your scarves".

I'm sure this may seem odd, but what's even funnier is when people do not anticipate the recitation of Qur'an at a social event, and are forced to be creative and use accessories such as a purse to cover one's hair. I was surprised to see a women hold her purse over her head as "hijab"..as if the multitudes of men surrounding her are not a good enough reason to wear hijab, but some guy reciting du'a compels her to hold a purse over her head. Her friends were more creative...one friend used her dinner napkin.

I was also laughing when I saw the communal hijab -- two or more girls draped under one dinner napkin during the recitation of Qur'an. Her other friend was still more creative. She used her coffee saucer on the back of her head. I wasn't sure if it was hijab or a Yamaka. I didn't know if she was a Muslim or a Jew. I felt like going up to her and saying "Shalom alaikum, sister".

And, people should remember that hijab is not just a protection from guys, but from a girl's nafs (ego) as well. It should prevent girls from having to spend hours in front of the mirror doing her hair. But, unfortunately, you see girls in front of the mirror for hours doing their hijab as they would do their hair, with all sorts of elaborate braids and the like. I wanted to go up to a sister and say "Is your hijab naturally curly?" I also felt compelled to go up to another girl and say "pardon me, but is your hijab naturally that color, or did you dye it?".

Well, the point to remember is that some people make an effort to wear hijab, but it is futile, because it is not fulfilling it's purpose. It's like using an umbrella with holes in it. Hijab is used for protection from guys as well as from the girl herself, and should not be used as an accessory or for beautifying one's self.

Anyway, that's it. If anyone disagrees with me or is offended, then you are disagreeing with the teachings of Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala.

Cassandra

03-13-2003, 10:32 AM

I find the conversation very enlighting and interesting. I must say that we can learn the art of feminity from the Moslem and Hindu ladies. African moslem women does us proud. I admire particularly the ones who come from Ethopia, Sudan, Somali, Senegal. They wear beautiful coloured clothing and lovely head coverings. I was brought up as a Christian, but wearing mini skirts, short skirts, shorting your bellies, etc, was frown about. I have my own daughter, she is 14 and I know the fashion for a lot of teenaged girls, crop tops, which I think is horrible, what signals are you sending out. Women should like to respect their bodies. In the West, we equate, wearing sluttish clothing as freedom, but are we really free?. I think we are just slaves to the fashion media, who tell us what is in and what is out.

dembasamba

03-13-2003, 04:09 PM

Cut and paste from another thread to save time....

Ode to the diversity of the Muslim world:

In Senegal, Muslim women wear long bubus. (Christian women wear them too, they are the normed fashion) Some of the Muslim women wore headcoverings but they were rarely black. In fact, they were usually in a bright pattern or one single color. The norm for older women was wearing a headwrap made of the same material as the bubu dress, and then covering that with a white scarf which softly draped the face and requires constant readjustment.

http://www.unicefusa.org/issues99/jan99/images/senegal.jpg

For younger women, bubus were also popular but made of sheer material. Some material so sheer, by the way, that one's bra was often exposed. (Later, I learned that this was the point--exposure of ornate store bought bra.) Underneath those bubus, and the skirt would be sheer fishnet anklelenght slips in brilliant colors which were exposed when the women would lift up the front of thier bubus to dance at parties/events--usually in groups of women. Some of those dances are very sensual--hip thrusts, pelvic isolations, butterfly like knees. Think Sean Paul's latest video. These mesh slips would be exposed even if the woman just gathered her bubu to walk. I should also say that the shoulder was seen as very sexy. Many bubus were cut with wide necks to expose shoulders.

http://www.mattioliphoto.com/dance.html

Most women whom I observed praying covered themselves with a long white piece of fabric. I never saw a child in hijab, unlike what I see in the USA sometimes. I went to clubs. I arrived dressed very modestly and was surprised to see all sorts of hoochified clothing on display by Muslim youth.

I can go on and on but I just wanted to offer out my experience with how the Muslim women I saw in one particular country expressed thier own cultural interpretation of the hijab. While some may not feel any resonance with West African Muslim culture/practices and may prefer to look to the middle east/north africa I find it most interesting to see how people who look like me, who in fact, might have been me if the slave trade had not occurred, do things.

elleebeme5

03-14-2003, 02:40 PM

theremin

03-14-2003, 02:41 PM

I'm an atheist, but I wear a large black triangular piece of cloth on my head from time to time. It makes me feel safe. When I'm out wearing it, nobody looks at *me*, all they see is this strange scarf. Am I wrong in doing that?

Cassandra

03-15-2003, 01:48 PM

I was brought up as a Christian, but wearing mini skirts, short skirts, shorting your bellies, etc, was frown about. I have my own daughter, she is 14 and I know the fashion for a lot of teenaged girls, crop tops, which I think is horrible, what signals are you sending out. Women should like to respect their bodies. In the West, we equate, wearing sluttish clothing as freedom, but are we really free?. I think we are just slaves to the fashion media, who tell us what is in and what is out.

Cassandra? Does your daughter wear mini-skirts, belly button out, crop tops and so on?

No, I don't allow her to, we discuss the clothing and as her what image is she sending out, plus, I don't where them myself. As a mother, I don't think it would be appropriate for me also. Last night, myself and Ayodele were going home, it was cold. There was a girl and her boyfriend, he was dressed in his coat, she was dressed with her trousers and crop top, and you could see her belly and it was freezing. What madness and she is just a fashion victim.